Question for the people who don't dislike the 2nd relic step

Because it's not Eureka or Bozja.
Those places can die in a fire.

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

It's early stages.. previous relic weps also are like that... who are to say it will be as easy later down the line???

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Even if it become harder, it will still be very common. I don't know where this "relic is a prestige thing" coming from, it never was.Relic doesn't even compare to savage weapon in rarity. It's a way for non-raid people to obtain a high end weapon, but the thing is raiding people also want it. Combine with the fact it's the last and only thing people have to go for when the game wind down before the next expack so you always end up with a lot of people having it. It has never been a rare thing, never was, and probably never will be. The only bragging right someone may have about relic is if they care enough to get the entire set, but that's about it.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Reasons to like the current steps:
- No specific content required other than ones that give the specified tomestone (this will become everything from ARR to EW in 7.0 which is even better)
- Don't have to change my per-existing pattern of play to achieve. I obtain a fun shiny weapon as a passive reward for playing the game and the only cost is less turn ins to the Grand Company.
- No FATE or Hunt farming required. This is actually a big one. In my experience too many people in a zone means I have trouble getting in or staying in so not making this a requirement means there isn't an army of people to contend with.
- The content is future proofed if I randomly decide to do it again later down the line.
- Does not require the input of crafters/gatherers to progress.
- No random loot drop to collect.
- No requirement to equip the weapon to obtain whatever is needed to progress (more future proofing).
- No separate instance zone that doesn't allow me to be in que for something else while doing it. I cannot begin to describe how much I hate Eureka and Bozja for this. Do not cut me off from the rest of the game just to progress a shiny weapon or a story.

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I approve your post as the best post ........ every word perfect

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Originally Posted by Arrius

https://puu.sh/JBc6I/adc7d6bdb2.png

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You know, I didn't enjoy running Void Ark 15 times, but I would gladly run Orbonne 50 times for a relic.

Because I like having access to every reward that doesn't have purpose outside of PvE content. But I don't like spending time in the PvE content and I definitely don't like playing content the weapon and gear is required for.

I like the story, but I don't like being asked to play well to watch the story.

I like being able to have all jobs at max level, but I don't like leveling jobs and I certainly don't like playing them.

I like when they add lifesim content instead of dungeons, but I don't like engaging in the lifesim content with my own input.

I think FFXIV has the best crafting system in the world. But I don't like figuring out how it works so I'll copy these macros. And please don't make me have to use my crafters in any content, thanks.

I also think FFXIV has the best and beautifulest maps of all MMORPGs! But I don't want things to do in the maps. That'd be boring.

Tribe Quests have really cute story and characters, but I don't want them to require more than 5 minutes of my time. That would make them boringest thing ever.

Signed: Square-Enix Business Division 3's target audience

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Because I like having access to every reward that doesn't have purpose outside of PvE content. But I don't like spending time in the PvE content and I definitely don't like playing content the weapon and gear is required for.

I like the story, but I don't like being asked to play well to watch the story.

I like being able to have all jobs at max level, but I don't like leveling jobs and I certainly don't like playing them.

I like when they add lifesim content instead of dungeons, but I don't like engaging in the lifesim content with my own input.

I think FFXIV has the best crafting system in the world. But I don't like figuring out how it works so I'll copy these macros. And please don't make me have to use my crafters in any content, thanks.

I also think FFXIV has the best and beautifulest maps of all MMORPGs! But I don't want things to do in the maps. That'd be boring.

Tribe Quests have really cute story and characters, but I don't want them to require more than 5 minutes of my time. That would make them boringest thing ever.

Signed: Square-Enix Business Division 3's target audience

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Wow, the target audience likes things targeted at them. Shocker. What new insights will you bring us next? The sky is blue? Earth is an oblate spheroid?

This step being the same as the first doesn't bother me too much right now. I can see the merits to the idea that we can gain tomestones in our chosen way and use that currency on these items. I have long been an advocate for options in relic steps. I hated being locked away from the game in Eureka and I disliked the story forcing me to go through Bozja but besides the timeworn artifacts step on the ShB relic did not mind that too much. We had a smaller number of options for some items but most did give us some agency in what we chose.

But I would have liked to see something a bit more. If they wanted to do items purchased then something that integrated more possible currencies like the crystal sand step for the anima is something I wouldn't have minded seeing. I don't want to see a DoH or DoL bottleneck step like the ARR relic, but I would not mind something that allowed a DoH or DoL option to getting an item needed. Also wolf marks for PvP to give an option there. And maybe even tribal currencies.

I'm in a bit of wait and see mode to see if the later steps differ. I think seeing the exact thing a third time might push me closer to the "dislike" column.

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

This is flawed logic since the relic is a multi-step item that becomes the best weapon for that expansion at the end. You are not grinding for an "inferior" weapon. Yes, the relic is currently inferior, but will eventually be the best. It will also have flexibility in substats, making it the best for previous expansion content as well. This is why high-end raiders care about the relic so much even though it looks and feels like a catch-up item. It's not.

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Forgive me. Does this thread not pertain the the second step of the relic specifically? How exactly is my logic flawed if that's the case? High end raiders should be caring about BiS if I am not mistaken, and this particular step is not BiS. This weapon allows casual players like me to obtain a i630 weapon without doing savage content. Whose logic is actually flawed here, my friend.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Forgive me. Does this thread not pertain the the second step of the relic specifically? How exactly is my logic flawed if that's the case? High end raiders should be caring about BiS if I am not mistaken, and this particular step is not BiS. This weapon allows casual players like me to obtain a i630 weapon without doing savage content. Whose logic is actually flawed here, my friend.

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Hm? So you want the relic steps to be Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome then lastly an obsurd grind since its finally BiS?

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

Hm? So you want the relic steps to be Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome then lastly an obsurd grind since its finally BiS?

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I read this a few times and I can't comprehend how you put that answer into the quote you're responding to, unless you have an extreme amount of reach. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

I read this a few times and I can't comprehend how you put that answer into the quote you're responding to, unless you have an extreme amount of reach. :confused:

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Gemina's logic: "If the relic step isn't BiS, then it should not require any effort" aka Tome step

Every step of the relic isn't BiS EXCEPT the last step. So basically in their opinion, every step of the relic should be tome until the very last one where we need to add some sort of grind because "Oh boy!! Now its BiS!"...

Like every step of the relic isn't somehow a progression towards that final step XD, but i've already explained that

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

Hm? So you want the relic steps to be Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome Tome then lastly an obsurd grind since its finally BiS?

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I never mentioned anything about what I wanted. So stop putting words in my mouth. What I did say is that mindlessly grinding old content to obtain an inferior weapon is a complete and utter waste of the limited time I have to play the game, and the reasoning behind anyone who does prefer to do that is beyond my level of understanding.

I loved the Bozja and Eureka zones, so I miss that relic method the most. I guess I'm more on the fence with this expansion's method. Something unique is always preferred. I just don't want to run an old trial or 8-man raid countless times for light farming.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

What I did say is that mindlessly grinding old content to obtain an inferior weapon is a complete and utter waste of the limited time I have to play the game.

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Relic weapons will end being the best thing to have at the end of the expansion and the game already caters to that ideology. Pop on over to the nearby Marketboard where players can find inferior Weapons AND gear that is still acceptable for use in current content easy peasy without wasting any time at all.

I'm personally hoping that they return to a Eureka style of obtaining Relics. Give alternatives to some of the steps like in ShB Relics, and not only will people do the least resistant path that'll also allow some cheesing methods here and there on top of it, but even then people will still complain about it at the expense of content longevity.

Its actually shocking to read some very logical and level-headed responses here.

1)) Its only step 2...why people had this grand idea they'd have alot of busy work to do for the 2nd step is kinda weird, and funny.
2)) The lower barrier of entry; especially at the start is a good thing, its a better use of most peoples time for it to be simple and easy, and it allows more people to accomplish the task and not get burned out as quickly. Plus as a few people said: it gives more reason to run roulette's, and give more use and relevance out of these tomestones.
This big ol grind people are clamoring for usually comes later. The real question adn thing to worry about, is will it even be a FUN grind. Because simply having a TON of Busy work, doesnt = Fun/Worth your time. Especially considering we dont know how the weapon will look at the end. (Plus it becomes irrelevant after 5-6 levels next expansion)
If I was forced into these big ol Grinds just for something not even worth it...Id be more annoyed then having a Content lul.

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Originally Posted by Lufir

I loved the Bozja and Eureka zones, so I miss that relic method the most. I guess I'm more on the fence with this expansion's method. Something unique is always preferred. I just don't want to run an old trial or 8-man raid countless times for light farming.

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The problem I see if they made another Zone for the Relic...that would actually be a detriment.
Doing a Zone 3 expansions back to back would lead to burnout from both devs AND players.
Im one of the few that are happy we arnt doing a Gindy Zone 3 times in a row, and this time its more casual and simple. (So far at least)
We can and should have another 1 in the future, but let it get an expansion or 2 to rest, instead of ALWAYS doing it back to back.

For the weapon itself for the jobs that I main I am satisfied.

However, I don't like that it's about Manderville at all like I know people will say skip the cutscene and I do but I still don't like the idea and I also don't like the 1500 tomes step for the second time it's just not satisfying and everyone can get this easily if they have the patience to endure all the Manderville quest line (I didn't my wife did it for me thank god <3) and I mean yeah it's cool that they do but like we are at Endwalker now im not asking for something like Bozja even tho for me it was awesome maybe something in between so it can be cool for everyone not too hsrd to grind but not as easy this "1500 tomes step 2"

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Honestly the accessibility is a pro in this case. The biggest loss of accessibility is the entire Manderville story and I already know people who say that is too much. The grind for this relic is front loaded especially if you don't like Manderville.

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I think this is the biggest tragedy in the whole relic weapon setup this time around. Personally, I put hildibrand quests off for years. Everyone always told me they were good, but I was just never in the mood to do what I perceived as a bunch of unvoiced fetch quests leading up to maybe a good joke here or there. So I avoided it, until one day I was supremely bored with the same. On that day, I sat down and allocated time and patience to do the quests because I felt like doing it. And since I felt like doing it, I didn't rush it. There was no reward at the end of the tunnel. I just did it for its own sake. And I really really enjoyed it because I wasn't rushing it or doing it with the end goal in mind.

LOTS of people I know are rushing this story and skipping all the cutscenes and basically depriving themselves of something pretty neat that they might have discovered later on their own if they'd been given the realistic option. All because now there's a relic attached to it. I think that's a really sad outcome.

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Originally Posted by Winterfang

Relic weapons will end being the best thing to have at the end of the expansion and the game already caters to that ideology.

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Again, this thread pertains to the second step. I could not care less about where the weapon ends up because we're not there yet. This argument has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the current topic.

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Pop on over to the nearby Marketboard where players can find inferior Weapons AND gear that is still acceptable for use in current content easy peasy without wasting any time at all.

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Now you're understanding where I am coming from.

At the end of the day, the only thing that gave the relic any real value in the past was that it was behind a crazy grind. Sure it might be bis for half a patch but that's about it, and thats normally at the end of the expansion when it doesn't matter.

If you make it as easy as handing in 1500 tomestones then the whole thing just feels pointless.

It gives me a reason to actually run the roulettes.

~700 tomes a day or so.

What I'm now worried about is the next few stages are going to be b@ll busting brutal and late in the expansion lifecycle.

If CBU3 is going to make heavy grinds, they should be early so they can be spread out, not put at the end where the stress is higher to complete before the expansion ends.

I mean it just comes down to every piece of content is supposed to have a time element attached to it and a corresponding reward, would anyone have been happy if you could buy Cassie earring with pagos crystals or necromancer was handed out to anyone who could reach level 50

This step just destroys past norms around the structure of a particular piece of content for no good reason in a time we are already struggling for content

You can prefer it for whatever reason but it’s breaking an established and well liked norm for no reason and reduces playtime in the process in a time we are already short on things to do (and no just substituting one long relic for doing all 19 doesn’t count)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

would anyone have been happy if you could buy Cassie earring with pagos crystals )

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High enough crystal cound and I absolutely would because years after the fact, killing the NM numerous times and I still haven't gotten it. RNG sucks, 1% RNG sucks even worse.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

High enough crystal cound and I absolutely would because years after the fact, killing the NM numerous times and I still haven't gotten it. RNG sucks, 1% RNG sucks even worse.

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Look I may be biased because I have Cassie (to be fair it took hundreds of kills) but I like that RNG because Cassie is not required for any content at all, on the most optimal class for haste at 70, Cassie and the speed belt together add like 0.7% damage

Maybe they could buff the bonus magecite item drop rates because 5/2 is legit the single most useful upgrade in eureka (even more than elemental armour) but I think Cassie and the speed belt are fine as is

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Originally Posted by Gemina

This argument has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the current topic.

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But it does...Not sure why you can't wrap your head around it. A relic's value is not just from the step you acquire it from, but also from every step preceding it. For example, The current relic IS NOT worth 1500 astronomy tomes. It is worth 3000. Why? Because you have to spend 1500 tomes to get the first step, then another 1500 tomes to do the second step. Therefore, every step of the relic has an impact in value of the final step....Which is BiS.

So you are not grinding for an inferior weapon. You are grinding out a step towards the eventual best weapon in the expansion.

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Originally Posted by SomeGuy22

(I swear to God this isn't a troll thread)

Why?

I'm pretty baffled that some players are defending the implementation of this step, and I want to get your reasoning for it. Is it because it isn't a grind that is set in stone (e.g run x raid y amount of times)? Does the step being the same as the first one not bother you? Do you not mind it, but wish it was somehow different? I just want to know/understand.

I know that the forum's cluttered with the topic, but I figured that a thread specifically for this question wouldn't (hopefully) instantly devolve into flame wars and name calling.

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Because I don't like the historical alternative?

I like my grinds to actually mean something, so if you can't add a meaningful grind to it other than "complete 50 fates from 3 expansions ago" or "run this 2+ year old alliance raid a dozen times because LMAOOO just do it", then I'm not going to balk at 1500 tomestones as the alternative.

Now if you want to say "relic acquisition should be more compelling in general," I'm all on board with that. But you won't see me weeping at this step not being like the others from previous expansions.

I don’t like grinds and being tied to doing content I don’t like. While the Bozja area was fun and had varied engagements and things like Castrum and Delubrum to break the monotony, Eureka was dreadful. I hated being stuck in that area. You could also level up doing Bozja. However, I only did 1 weapon. That was enough Bozja.

At least with the current quests, I can spend my time doing content I like instead of doing x zillion old fates or running this old dungeon ad nauseam. This is a game, I play because I have fun. I have no fun running the same thing over and over.

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Originally Posted by angienessyo

You know, I didn't enjoy running Void Ark 15 times, but I would gladly run Orbonne 50 times for a relic.

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https://media.tenor.com/EKt2Luq-ivIA...t-so-brave.gif


I'm surprised people are even complaining about the 2nd step. A reminder of what the 2nd steps have been so far.

ARR: Buy 3 Thavnairian Mists.
HW: Complete 10 dungeons with the weapon equipped.
SB: Do some NMs (Fates in Eureka) for Protean Crystals and then beat Pazuzu (is he up?).
ShB: Do HW FATEs (or Fates and Critical engagements in the 3 parts of 1st Bozja zone, you insane person) for 10 of 3 different kinds of drops.

If you look at that, ARR and HW, which Yoshi-P said this would be the equivalent grind of, are insanely easy for 2nd step. It's the 3rd step you all should fear...for that was the Atma and Unidentified Grinds. Remember, Atma was not guaranteed originally from FATEs. Unidentified had to be gotten from the ARR and HW Tribe quests, and Alex SAVAGE token drops, and I think you could also get some from the what was then current uncapped tomestones originally. You needed 10 of 4 different kinds of items. In other words, massive grinds.

I think everyone is missing the point. Many are not upset over the fact it's an easy step, they are mad because of how lazy it was implemented. They didn't even bother to add a new token for the 1500 whatever points, it was super lazy and if anything I feel bad for the poor animators who had to carry the bulk of the 6.35 update.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

I think everyone is missing the point. Many are not upset over the fact it's an easy step, they are mad because of how lazy it was implemented. They didn't even bother to add a new token for the 1500 whatever points, it was super lazy and if anything I feel bad for the poor animators who had to carry the bulk of the 6.35 update.

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On top of this it was over before it even launched. What do you even do now? Guess I better learn to enjoy /beesknees.

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Originally Posted by hobostew

On top of this it was over before it even launched. What do you even do now? Guess I better learn to enjoy /beesknees.

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I just realized I have 16 of those stupid things in my chocobo saddlebag. It really was over before it began. I guess I can ignore roulettes again, lmao.

edit: whoops, nevermind. It actually does require a different token. Such much for cheesing this step, lol.

I like it.

Instead of having to grind out 1500 tomestones worth of ivalice, I can get it from somewhere I like.

I'm betting most of the people unhappy with the step are the same ones crying they can't force people to do puppets bunker.

Heres the thing, based on how "grinds" are anyways, youd likely be farming the same things at the same rate for item drops the way you get tomes.

Except instead of doing it for old content where i dont have all my buttons and dont care , i can at least do the new deep dungeon, EW fates for gems, or PVP, aka stuff id rather do anyways.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

I think everyone is missing the point. Many are not upset over the fact it's an easy step, they are mad because of how lazy it was implemented. They didn't even bother to add a new token for the 1500 whatever points, it was super lazy and if anything I feel bad for the poor animators who had to carry the bulk of the 6.35 update.

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ARR THAVNAIRIAN MISTS. The exact same way, the exact same method, also uncapped tomestones.

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Originally Posted by Imora

I like it.

Instead of having to grind out 1500 tomestones worth of ivalice, I can get it from somewhere I like.

I'm betting most of the people unhappy with the step are the same ones crying they can't force people to do puppets bunker.

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I don't care about forcing anyone to do anything, there should be options. But this is just insanely lazy.
It's alright for the first step of a relic, but not for every stage. You literally log in on patch day, pay your 1500 tomestones you've already banked, and you're finished.
There is no relic weapon, you're literally just buying it.

If there was literally any system that was more involved, such as Moogle tomestones that requires you to run any of a selection of duties, it would have been more interesting. And if it was more than just one single step too, so that you felt you were actually engaging with some kind of novel system.

For example, if I were to design it, at a minimum, I would go with something like...

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Step 1 (one time only): To find Pupu's friend you need to search for clues of things that are 'out of this world', gather 'out of this world' items to see if we can deduce a pattern and identify things that may be 'out of this world'.
Collect 5 'Otherworldly Mineral's
Obtained by: Drops from Nier Raids, Can be bought from Omicron Bicolour Gemstone vendor for 100 BG's.
You can choose which route you take, or can mix and match as necessary. Incentivises (doesn't force) running Nier raids, contributing to filling queues.

Step 2 (one time only): Collect materials to produce Salamanderville.
Collect 3 unique items.
Obtained by: One drops from Mhachi Raids, one drops from The Sil'dihn Subterrane, one can be bought with Crafter/Gatherer White Scripts, all of them can be bought for 500 Tomestones of Astronomy each.
Incentivises Mhachi raids, Variant dungeons, and involves crafting/gathering, but there's also the option to just dump Astronomy as well.

Step 3 (repeatable, per weapon):
Collect 5 'Complementary Chondrite's
Obtained by: Drops from 'Battle on the Big Bridge', 'Battle in the Big Keep' or 'Kugane Ohashi', Can be bought for 200 Tomestones of Astronomy.
You can choose which route you take, or can mix and match as necessary. Incentivises running Gilgamesh trials, contributing to filling queues and helping others complete the prerequisite quests.

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Originally Posted by SomeGuy22

(I swear to God this isn't a troll thread)

Why?

I'm pretty baffled that some players are defending the implementation of this step, and I want to get your reasoning for it. Is it because it isn't a grind that is set in stone (e.g run x raid y amount of times)? Does the step being the same as the first one not bother you? Do you not mind it, but wish it was somehow different? I just want to know/understand.

I know that the forum's cluttered with the topic, but I figured that a thread specifically for this question wouldn't (hopefully) instantly devolve into flame wars and name calling.

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I can get the tomes in any manner I see fit, not one given to me forcing me to do content I don't want (15 CT runs). Simple

People say the step lacks options yet in reality that false as tomes come from various different content. Some may get them from trials, others may get them strictly from Crystaline

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

ARR THAVNAIRIAN MISTS. The exact same way, the exact same method, also uncapped tomestones.

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IIRC they weren't uncapped at that time. But it's a very similar step.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

IIRC they weren't uncapped at that time. But it's a very similar step.

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It's why I'm not really understanding the complaints, with the same people also pointing at the ARR relic steps as good design. This is literally the exact same 2nd step as ARR's relic.

the people that like this step are the ones who pay a sub to stand around afk in town. they dont want to actually play the game. eureka/bozja was actual new content and we lost it for useless goofy island.

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Originally Posted by seolhyun

the people that like this step are the ones who pay a sub to stand around afk in town. they dont want to actually play the game. eureka/bozja was actual new content and we lost it for useless goofy island.

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Sure, standing AFK in town will also magically give them 1500 tome. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by seolhyun

the people that like this step are the ones who pay a sub to stand around afk in town. they dont want to actually play the game. eureka/bozja was actual new content and we lost it for useless goofy island.

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Ah yes the classic "if you like something I don't like you must be *insert goofy remark*...come on now. It's possible for active players to like the step. I get to farm tomes as I farm for Orthos weps. 2 birds 1 stone. And news flash afking won't get me either of those.

Eureka n Boz are still there if you want something to do