Really hope that next Relic Step will be a complete grindfest again

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Bit of a controversial take here, but I think that's kinda the point. You're not meant to solo Eureka and Bozja. That isn't the sort of content they're meant to be. They're content specifically designed to go in as a group.

I know it's unfortunate to say and people are gonna get upset at that, but that's the thing. It was never made to be that sort of content. So saying "I want to be able to solo Eureka and Bozja" is virtually the same as saying "I want to solo an Alliance Raid". You just won't.

However, Bozja and Eureka suffer from longevity problems, and they're noticeable. It's very hit-or-miss when or if Bozja's full even with the level up incentive. There isn't that much to do there or an incentive to go back to it once you're done with the relic. I haven't seen a full instance in years. And I find that to be a shame, because it means it's going to cause issues in the future.

---

Wholeheartedly agree with them being designed as a group content.

Nowadays we can 99% solo Eureka relics up to their last glowy phase, but we do have to be resourceful & know what to do. (I.e. Can’t get Pazuzu feather? There’s a trader that gives you one for 300 Anemos Crystal each! Yeah work multiple times harder but that’s the point if people want to solo it?). Last 1% is the Crystalline Scale that drops from Provenance Watcher & cannot be collected any other ways. Maybe on tanks but :doubt:

Bozja on the other hand is impossible to pull off with the bottleneck that is CLL/DRn/Dalriada clear requirement. And yet from what I could see in my DC, they are still regularly being ran & cleared so I don’t see any reason to not hitch a ride in one of those runs. Especially nowadays when some people are running out of contents to do & start pouring into these zones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Bit of a controversial take here, but I think that's kinda the point. You're not meant to solo Eureka and Bozja. That isn't the sort of content they're meant to be. They're content specifically designed to go in as a group.

I know it's unfortunate to say and people are gonna get upset at that, but that's the thing. It was never made to be that sort of content. So saying "I want to be able to solo Eureka and Bozja" is virtually the same as saying "I want to solo an Alliance Raid". You just won't.

---

Most stuff with the relic isn't meant to be solo'd but that's the point of getting stronger, you can do things you previously couldn't do on your own, on your time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

However, Bozja and Eureka suffer from longevity problems, and they're noticeable. It's very hit-or-miss when or if Bozja's full even with the level up incentive. There isn't that much to do there or an incentive to go back to it once you're done with the relic. I haven't seen a full instance in years. And I find that to be a shame, because it means it's going to cause issues in the future.

---

You basically just contradicted yourself and proved my point.

• "Bozja isn't meant to be soloed".
  
• "There isn't that much to do there or an incentive to go back to it once you're done with the relic. Haven't seen a full Bozja instance in years"

Which is why people want it to be able to be solo'd. Which CBU3 could easily do by making Dalriada an 8 man instance and putting it in the Normal Raid Roulette or by putting the relic mats on the Normal Raid Roulette / Alliance Raid Roulette . Simple solutions.

I mean you were wrong about Eureka anyway you are still at net 0

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

You basically just contradicted yourself and proved my point.

---

....what?


1 - Bozja isn't meant for you to go in and complete it solo. You need a group for it.
2 - However, it's hard to pull it off right now, because instances are very flip-floppy. You either get a group or you can't do it.

The problem is longevity.

Those two statements did not contradict anything.
Plus, it's as I've been saying in this whole thread thus far. The problem with Bozja and Eureka is the fact that there isn't much else to do apart from FATEs and the CEs. FATEs are whatever in Bozja, but not CEs and especially not CLL, Dalriada and Delubrum. NMs are not easily soloable in Eureka (never tried it myself, but if it's possible, it's certainly far bigger a hassle than required). Thus I propose having more to do in those instances, be it better rewards or other systems in place to incentivize people to go back to it.

Because you cannot solo Bozja. It's like that by design. But it's made worse when you factor in that there aren't that many people in the instances. And because there aren't many people in there, it's hard to clear Bozja because you're forced to solo that which cannot be soloable. Good luck soloing the Prisoner bit in Castrum.

But I never once considered that to be poor design that needed to be changed. Au contraire: I very much want them to have MORE things like that, meant to be done as a group. It just needs to be done right and you need to assure there will be a group to begin with. Which it can be done.

That said.

Quote:

---

Which is why people want it to be able to be solo'd. Which CBU3 could easily do by making Dalriada an 8 man instance and putting it in the Normal Raid Roulette or by putting the relic mats on the Normal Raid Roulette / Alliance Raid Roulette . Simple solutions.

---

So you ignore the initial part where I tell you

Quote:

---

I know it's unfortunate to say and people are gonna get upset at that, but that's the thing. It was never made to be that sort of content.

---

just so you can then say "You proved my point: this is why we want it soloed"?

...I didn't prove much save for one thing. That your feelings on Bozja are valid: you want it to be soloable because of how the current system is designed, which is heavily reliant on the instances being active. Which, again, they are currently not.

Otherwise no, I didn't prove to you anything of the sort. Because your "simple answer" is literally unmaking the whole point of the design. Bozja's not meant to be Soloed. It is, however, meant to be done with an active instance. What the devs should do is NOT try to go back and make it soloable because that's simply not going to be a factor. But rather add incentives to bring people into the instances and revive them for posterity.

"Posterity" doesn't have to imply "unmaking all of Bozja to be soloable". First we try to revive the instances and try to make sure people return to it. We go for soloable once we really have reached a point where we cannot sustain anything. And at that point, you'd need to consider moments like CLL and Dalriada which require the group to split, such as removing it (which takes a lot of work and you'd need them to rework the whole map) or adding Trusts to it (which still takes time regardless, but it's less heinous than reworking the map).

Sorry but while I agree Bozja's design makes it hard for its content to be finished, I wholeheartedly disagree with it being made into a solo area. It 100% defies its purpose and design philosophy. I did not contradict myself or prove you right in any simple way.

> people complain that there's not much to do like grinding in this game
> Devs make relic weapon grindy
> people are malding because it's too grindy

Wait, people unironically think Bozja is still active? A single full instance one or two nights a week does not high activity make. As for the raid; hardly anyone is running that hellscape of a savage on any DC. You basically have to join a particular Discord to participate - each data center has one. Even then, finding them running is a tall order.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

I want the ability to revisit older content. Is there something wrong with that?

I mean I started in ShB but I never really experienced Bozja during that expansion. Is it wrong for me to want to go back and revisit older content, even if it's not current expansion content?

I understand it's not the norm since most people just do MSQ + current expansion, then quit, but is there something actually wrong with me wanting it?

---

no of course not but i rather have new thinsg current expansion so i can use the NEW BUTTONS they gave us

it feels silly to get to max level but theres not as many things AT MAX to putz around in

bozja at leats when u went in at 70 BROUGHT YOU to 80, just going back to keep doing older things again and again just makes feeling like leveling to max a waste anyways

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kevin_satron

> people complain that there's not much to do like grinding in this game
> Devs make relic weapon grindy
> people are malding because it's too grindy

---

people want grindy the way THEY want grindy

some people hated the exploration zones, i loved them

some people want the ARR/HW style light/book grind, which i /hate/

feels like walking into a room on fire..,

I'll just Reiterate what I likely said before..,

We are unlikely to get that this time around..,

as someone who really, really enjoyed Eureka, and got roadblocks with the Bozja DR MSQ..,

If we ever get a Exploration Zone for the next expansion.., the point is a Highly Cooperative Zone with very Minimal Solo grind IN THE ZONE..,
[if we want to go over how it works, the balanced can be met, but it always will be group content when reaping the benefits of what you sowed.., but prep work could easily be solo, but not so efficient. but this applies to the content itself. which bozja has lesser pull for some life after completion]

as for Manderville, we are likely to get a grind of sorts be they Dngs, fates, or Potential Books..,

They should have both in the future, completely independent of each other.

<Since as some have said, we cannot please everyone, but a middle can always be found.., unless we need both extremes at the same time..,>

for now though, no reason to converse Exploration Zones, as we likely won't ever have it this time

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

They should have both in the future, completely independent of each other.

<Since as some have said, we cannot please everyone, but a middle can always be found.., unless we need both extremes at the same time..,>

---

I don't particularly trust them to strike that balance to be honest. They said for Bozja that they would have a HW style grind along side it for people who don't want to do the exploratory zone but what we actually got was a half assed excuse of a "HW style grind". I would much prefer they pick one and do it very well than get something that is covered in cut corners, be it exploratory or an old school book grind.

I like the idea of exploration areas and I loved Eureka, the areas were cool and the lore is so mystifying.

Despite what some might think, the only two forms of grind the devs think of is exploration area or grind reusing old content.

I like traveling new areas and partying up with others to grind.

Regardless, it's not like they can make us do anything but grind. Relics will never be locked behind difficult content so they pad it out with long grinds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kevin_satron

> people complain that there's not much to do like grinding in this game
> Devs make relic weapon grindy
> people are malding because it's too grindy

---

"Everyone is one person comment"

I don't think I'll ever understand why people who hate grinds feel like they'd be literally compelled to complete an optional grind if it was added.

Add a grind for the people who want it, and make it optional so the people who don't want to do it don't have to. It's the same thing as ultimates, not everyone needs to do them. They shouldn't design relic grinds for the uber casual who wants to log in every 4-6 months for the MSQ. If you don't want to grind, then just don't do it and stick to the MSQ.

Since we are not getting a Field Operation this xpac I am 100% sure at least 1 step of the relic are gonna require Crystal tower drops or Spam

I'm also pretty sure they are not gonna put Eureka Orthos in the relic chain, as per "classic relics" had the goal to populate older content, them putting the new content as part of the relic would be against the entire idea of the relic grind (wich is pretty terrible lol)

I do expect them to slap HoH on it, since Bozja had PoTD grind attached. Maybe they tie Nier raids too, to push more people into unlocking them

It would be nice if they tied Gold saucer multiplayer-activities into it. But I fully expect the playerbase to just afk verminion and chocobo racing matches, so, sadly I don't see that one happening, but I wish

Shite idea: make the items obtainable with Firmament/Diadem scrips xD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raraka

Since we are not getting a Field Operation this xpac I am 100% sure at least 1 step of the relic are gonna require Crystal tower drops or Spam

I'm also pretty sure they are not gonna put Eureka Orthos in the relic chain, as per "classic relics" had the goal to populate older content, them putting the new content as part of the relic would be against the entire idea of the relic grind (wich is pretty terrible lol)

I do expect them to slap HoH on it, since Bozja had PoTD grind attached. Maybe they tie Nier raids too, to push more people into unlocking them

It would be nice if they tied Gold saucer multiplayer-activities into it. But I fully expect the playerbase to just afk verminion and chocobo racing matches, so, sadly I don't see that one happening, but I wish

---

This is all I want. Seriously CT doesn't need any kind of boost, but the Nier raids definitely do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I don't think I'll ever understand why people who hate grinds feel like they'd be literally compelled to complete an optional grind if it was added.

Add a grind for the people who want it, and make it optional so the people who don't want to do it don't have to. It's the same thing as ultimates, not everyone needs to do them. They shouldn't design relic grinds for the uber casual who wants to log in every 4-6 months for the MSQ. If you don't want to grind, then just don't do it and stick to the MSQ.

---

There are different kinds of grinds.

Korean style isn't fun to most western audiences, especially when you consider one of the marketing points of FFXIV is the ability to switch jobs on the fly.

Having massive grinds on relic weapons counters that selling point.

Re: Eureka / Bozja a lot of people don't like being forced in there to complete the relics, all they asking for is the option to do them outside of it for various personal reasons (which the devs appear to be receptive to outside of the CLL / Dalriada clear requirements).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

There are different kinds of grinds.

Korean style isn't fun to most western audiences, especially when you consider one of the marketing points of FFXIV is the ability to switch jobs on the fly.

Having massive grinds on relic weapons counters that selling point.

Re: Eureka / Bozja a lot of people don't like being forced in there to complete the relics, all they asking for is the option to do them outside of it for various personal reasons (which the devs appear to be receptive to outside of the CLL / Dalriada clear requirements).

---

For me sometimes it's just the numbers.

Like, that initial step of the Bozja weapons where you had to run like 60 FATES per weapon just really put me off. cut that down to 10 or 15 per area instead of 20 and that'd be much more palatable for me.
It's small, but it helps.

I was happy with the 15 DR runs, and that ended up being the step that got nerfed iirc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

For me sometimes it's just the numbers.

Like, that initial step of the Bozja weapons where you had to run like 60 FATES per weapon just really put me off. cut that down to 10 or 15 per area instead of 20 and that'd be much more palatable for me.
It's small, but it helps.

I was happy with the 15 DR runs, and that ended up being the step that got nerfed iirc.

---

I agree. If we're to nerf anything right now in Bozja, it's the "20 of each" on For Want of a Memory. I don't even care about the rest of the AST relic weapon on my alt, I just want Solstice Recollection. But goddamn, it feels like I'd be halfway through an Anima at this point -._.-

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

For me sometimes it's just the numbers.

Like, that initial step of the Bozja weapons where you had to run like 60 FATES per weapon just really put me off. cut that down to 10 or 15 per area instead of 20 and that'd be much more palatable for me.
It's small, but it helps.

I was happy with the 15 DR runs, and that ended up being the step that got nerfed iirc.

---

It's still a 15 requirement, they just increased the obtain from 1 to 3 (so 5 total runs), meanwhile they haven't touched the drop rate from POTD / HoH (it's abysmal) effectively requiring you to be in Bozja for this step.

they have to let us spam ivalice, nier, and the twelve AR.

I mean, I don't want it to take all of 5 minutes again, but I don't want to run old raids 50 times again either. A good grind strikes a balance.

I'm one of the few that don't mind a grind, long as it's achievable..,
[Or no unnecessary roadblocks, that requires you to play with a system, before you're locked out, and can't collect and progress before hand..,]

Here's hoping there is a variable amount of options..,

[A Grind that benefits those who are willing to go the Effort way,
when there is a ExpZone-one that works seamlessly with its progression-,
and a not-stressful Slow Grind/Passive Collection that isn't roadblocked, for those who don't want to have too much grind.]

IMO, the devs have made it harder on them with all the content cuts since Stormblood. HW had multiple ways of grinding because there were various means of obtaining the required items (on top of my head, dungeon farm, raid farm, tome farm, crafting scrips, beast tribes currency, FATEs). But now that we don't have several dungeons a patch for instance, they can't ask people to farm the same 3 dungeons when for HW people had 10 more dungeons to choose from.
I'm happy we gave up the dedicated instances for the relic, while I enjoyed Eureka at the time, Bozja was not a great improvement outside of CLL, DR and Dalriada (which had their problems too).

I just hope the new relic naturally feeds other game systems, with a lot of diversity to choose from (say, once week it's Stormblood's content that gives a bonus in grind, once week is another expansion). In that sense the Anima relic was the best designed for me. It could just benefit from ShB where a few steps were done once only, making it easier for other jobs.

Stats wise, I just don't want Eureka's random stats. I don't care that much about the weapon being BiS or not, I've only ever used them for cosmetics / achievements, and it ultimately doesn't mean much given how late we get it anyway. If they wanted to introduce a relic that is actively competitive to Savage weapons, they would need to release it early and balance the grind to Savage completion, which is almost impossible given how Savage can be zerged by pros over one reset, or casually completed over months.

I hope criterion, variant or the new deep dungeon will be some of the ways we can advance the relic quest. I'm also open to farming old content for a change.

They should also add gear rewards to criterion and a unique mount reward to criterion savage, similar to what was available in Eureka/Bozja and their savage raids.

I hope the deep dungeon has nothing to do with it.

I don't want stuck doing hoh to unlock it potentially, just for a weapon that's not better than what I have by much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imora

I hope the deep dungeon has nothing to do with it.

I don't want stuck doing hoh to unlock it potentially, just for a weapon that's not better than what I have by much.

---

Unless Godbrand stole/bought/won Relics from Allag and the DeepDungeons when creating his Family's Arms/Armaments.., we should be fine.

With this being my first relic weapons since I'm newer 90 I just hope it's fun not a mindless grind fest (like AP in WoW during BFA expansion) but something I can enjoy doing. I have no prior experience on relic weapons to draw on so just excited to do my first upgrade

The last relic grind was horrible and I assume this one will be as well. For some reason SE thinks the worse it is, the better you feel about completing it. Not me, I hated every minuye of it. It was not fun, it never will be. I am skipping it this round. No thanks. Games are supposed to be fun, not tedious as FFXIV is all about.

This is just further proof that none of you care about the quality of the content or what the majority of the playerbase wants. You want an awful grind that prevents most players from bothering. You want to be the only ones with your shiny so-called hard earned relic weapons that you will lord over the casual playerbase. You're nothing more than toxic elitists looking to gatekeep content for your own satisfaction. I am grateful that Yoshi P and Square Enix do not listen to your horrendous suggestions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

First things first: is this bait?

---

Naw, it's a flirt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

*sadly looks at games-to-play list*

---

Joke: next relic step: Beat at least 75% of your steam library

The alli raid update might have already helped the not-CT raids. If i were a dev for FFXIV i would still suggest making the NIER raids, the new myths of the realm raids and maybe others (the new normal raids and eden maybe) to be a required part of the relic. Just so que times in the future might still be sound. Doesn't even have to be "complete each NIER raid 20 times!" can be way less.