Bizarre burnout

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

He eats people.

---

Never heard about the saying : Five ethnic group a day keep the cancer away ! ... or was that vegetables ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crustyman

I know the obvious answer is to just stop playing, but ffxiv is (was?) my favorite game, and I just hate seeing all this stupid negativity and stupid reworks in the game. I've met so many nice people and I would hate to stop talking to them because of a lack of common interest anymore. I just don't feel like there's anything else to really do anymore, since all the jobs I like are leveled up to max, and most relics just look ugly.

---

The obvious answer is probably the best one, just not as a permanent alternative. I've hit points where I was so frustrated with the game that I couldn't bring myself to play, unsubbed, and came back six months or even a year later when the next expansion was set to release. I love this game too; it's there in my top three favorites of all time. I want to continue loving it so I've made the decision to take breaks when and as I need to in order to refresh myself before growing to hate it.

Other options:
1. Stop reading all the doom and gloom social media crap. It's amazing how other peoples' opinions can sway our own even if we don't realize it.

2. Try just playing the game, do things you don't normally do, play a different job, anything *casually*. Give yourself permission to do anything you feel like at that moment even if it's just people watching in Limsa.

3. Go back to ARR or your favorite expansion and do *EVERYTHING*. Aim for a 100% clear of it, barring achievements unless you want to do those too.

4. Find "stupid goals" as I like to call them. Pick a couple of pets and grind them out then move on to something else. Come up with a menu for an RP restaurant and gather/craft everything for it on your own (I'm doing this now and it's surprisingly satisfying). Complete your entire Challenge Log for the week. Anything goes, just don't push yourself to get it done NOW.

I wouldn't call it a bizarre burnout.
You don't agree with the direction CBU3 has been taking the game and you find yourself not having fun anymore, that is entirely valid and don't let anyone tell you different. I wish I could give you a solution but all you can really do is find a different game that you like, because it is very unlikely to ever change and very likely that they will just double down.

All of us that feel the same and are still here, we're essentially just wasting our time. This becomes especially obvious when any criticism is usually met with "everything is fine, stop being so negative, I like it, you're in the minority" or any combination along those lines.

There are enough people who are totally fine with the boilerplate grey sludge of design that SE has no reason to change the direction for the game. So all you can really do is vote with your wallet, stop giving them money and most likely be replaced by a sprout immediately.


Call me ridiculously cynical but that's what seeing the game you loved turn into something you increasingly can't stand for over 2 years does to you. People say that the forums are overly negative but I wouldn't even be on these forums if ShB's job design didn't happen, I didn't even have a forum account until the end of Stormblood because there was no reason for me to feel disgruntled enough to visit the forums back then. It had some incredibly rough edges but sandblasting them all off may not have been the right choice either.

As an aside, don't be afraid to try other games - particularly MMO's. You might be surprised by what's on offer and may very well find your niche elsewhere. FFXIV has changed substantially over the years and on many fronts is seeking to appease a completely different target audience to what it originally sought. Much in the same way as how WoW did when many of us found ourselves taking our leave of it.

I just came back from a 3 month break myself. Gives a fresh view of the game. Otherwise, for your sanity, stay away from the OF.

I too miss old 2.0 SMN, but the dev team has given up in the idea of pet classes. I now fear for BRD's dot skills, lol.

The shortcomings of MCH are very real and very measurable, and the way SE is handling it does not exactly make me hopeful. Even if you can still persist and play MCH (or whatever job seems to be "in trouble" at the time) these facts do not go away. People trying to rationalize "it's not the game's fault, it's muh negativity's fault" are as cute as ever.

I just finished grinding out another Zodiac weapon and it's pretty pointless to get on the gear treadmill until a .4 patch so I'm thinking that another break might be soon. Or maybe I'll return to pvp to get the mount, I also been wanting to replay CP2077 or perhaps I'll tag along with my friends who want to give New World another shot.

Point is, it's gonna be okay man, just do whatever.

I would also try other MMO's to solve that burnout. I personally enjoy ESO for a lot of its open world content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crustyman

Though when I really suffered the first stage of major burnout was when I read the forums and saw that the ffxiv dev team is not different then bungie or any other terrible studio.

---

That's understandable given the state of forums in general. If you visit just about any game's official forum, you'll find that they all---no matter the actual quality of the game---are filled with negativity. Like with reviews, some negativity is warranted and some isn't.

Try not to let other people's opinions about a thing affect your own feelings about a thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

As an aside, don't be afraid to try other games - particularly MMO's. You might be surprised by what's on offer and may very well find your niche elsewhere. FFXIV has changed substantially over the years and on many fronts is seeking to appease a completely different target audience to what it originally sought. Much in the same way as how WoW did when many of us found ourselves taking our leave of it.

---

Because it's too casual?

This game will never be the same as it was during HW or SB when most of the classes had proper intricacies and depth and combat gameplay was on the forefront. Yoshi himself said that this is the way forward so either you bend over and take it or take your money elsewhere because the golden days aint coming back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Solakor

This game will never be the same as it was during HW or SB when most of the classes had proper intricacies and depth and combat gameplay was on the forefront. Yoshi himself said that this is the way forward so either you bend over and take it or take your money elsewhere because the golden days aint coming back.

---

I doubt people back then weren't complaining just like how we are now. One thing I learned about online communities are that they never change and it's easy to get the nostalgic goggles when you stay long enough in a game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I doubt people back then weren't complaining just like how we are now. One thing I learned about online communities are that they never change and it's easy to get the nostalgic goggles when you stay long enough in a game.

---

The overall reception to the game actually was quite a bit different back then; more positive, of course there was still criticism towards different aspects in the game. The forum community has definitely changed over the years, and I am seeing less and less regulars from back then that are still around, though many of them have been banned. Many seem to have come to the forums more recently to give their takes on aspects of the story and the like,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

There are enough people who are totally fine with the boilerplate grey sludge of design that SE has no reason to change the direction for the game. So all you can really do is vote with your wallet, stop giving them money and most likely be replaced by a sprout immediately.

---

It's the trend I've seen in the EW Lucky Bancho data sets. We'll see if it keeps up.

I feel burnout is unique to every player. Some people not seem to feel it, and others get very hard by it. I myself am likely building up to it a little, but stressful things are happening/coming up in real life so I am using FFXIV as a chill/escape point for as long as I can haha. Do not be afraid to take a brake, you are not giving up on the game if you do not log in for a few days, weeks or even months. Playing other games will help ease the burnout and it helps that unlike other games FFXIV lacks the big FOMO elements that other live service games insist on having nowadays. If you want to still play the game then it could help to do something new, for example a new combat roll (Such as Tank) or try levelling a gathering class. I myself am taking a bit of a levelling break and am now on a hunt to collect as many Triple Triad cards as the game will let me.

Avoiding the negativity of the forums will help too, and keeping in mind that despite the idea that FFXIV is different, every game has such environments and toxicity in their community. It may have gotten worse over the last few years sure, but I have never seen in my twenty plus years of MMO gaming which does not have its share of doomsayers and trolls. Plus whilst I do think Yoshi and the Devs are a bit better then most, they are human and not perfect either. They will be stubborn and mess up just like any other dev. Does not mean the game is going the way of WoW, or that there is no hope for the classes that people are disappointed in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lauront

It's the trend I've seen in the EW Lucky Bancho data sets. We'll see if it keeps up.

---

I haven't seen the data, but I always presumed that much of the new community that came with the streamer surge, would get to that point in the game where they would feel there is not much more they want to do, burnout, or leave when their streamer stopped playing. It definitely wouldn't last. EW launch hype definitely prolonged a lot of it. I'd like to hope SE will take more feedback to heart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I haven't seen the data, but I always presumed that much of the new community that came with the streamer surge, would get to that point in the game where they would feel there is not much more they want to do, burnout, or leave when their streamer stopped playing. It definitely wouldn't last. EW launch hype definitely prolonged a lot of it. I'd like to hope SE will take more feedback to heart.

---

Yeah, I'm very curious to see what is going to happen with it. From memory, a good chunk of them have still not fully completed EW as of the last data-set; I think he put the full clear at 660k for the last dataset, of the 1.3m or so. It's going to be a while to see where all the chips fall. The breakdown is here - you can run it through an auto-translator, or go here and access it in the EN version of the site. The latter site seems to have added the data from the new to the old survey so it's double-counting, more or less.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Illmaeran

1. Stop reading all the doom and gloom social media crap. It's amazing how other peoples' opinions can sway our own even if we don't realize it.

---

To this point I just wanna say that as someone who started playing in StB, I didn’t even know the OF existed and wasn’t looking on social media about the game at all. I didn’t make a forum account or start looking at the game subreddit until after 5.0 - even so, I could feel the game change during Shb and I felt uncomfortable, but I still kept pushing hoping the game would get better. I took breaks, tried all sorts of different things in the game, but nothing worked. It got even worse for me in EW. The one thing that has kept me giving it another try time and time again is all that sunk cost fallacy - the hundreds of hours I’ve spent grinding deep dungeon solo.

To OP, just do what’s best for you. The devs obviously have a vision for the game that some of us just can’t get on board with. Waiting and hoping for them to fix things or leaving are pretty much the options we have. At some point, enough is enough.

Short of taking a break, which I would still recommend regardless, it might not be a bad idea to try something you haven't done before. Test a new job that you haven't even considered. You might surprise yourself. Learn a boss fight and farm a mount, perhaps. When I start running out of things I want to do, I usually find something to farm. If that doesn't tide you over, I would suggest taking a break and playing a solo player game. A modded Skyrim playthrough can keep me busy for a while, but it obviously doesn't have to be that. Either way, do what is best for you. Burnout happens. It's inevitable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

FFXIV has become a game where all I can do is log in to turn in leves and wait for the day that SMN becomes even half the class that it was in FFXI, but my trust in job design/combat has reached such a low that it wouldn’t surprise me if the class somehow lost abilities coming into 7.0.

Diofield releases this week and I was able to pick up Octopath Traveler on PC for half off on steam. Unlike the people who will doubtless come in here trying to paint you as somehow in the wrong or recommend content that doesn’t appeal to battle oriented players, I’m not telling you to “go play something else” as I detest when people throw that in my face whenever I complain - I’m saying that there are a lot of better games than Endwalker that we should be playing especially with how far the standards of gameplay and writing have fallen here. Keep speaking out, and keep pointing out how other games are doing things better than FFXIV is right now.

---

I mean, I hear you guys.

Imagine coming from XI, and your favorite jobs were Blue Mage, Beastmaster, and Summoner.

Blue aint even a job, cant do ish (Not one person on the dev team spoke up and stated "Hey, lets use resources on something else instead of a job that cannot be part of the main game?")

BST isn't in the game

SMN is.........interesting.....(I Wanna be nice today)

I play alot of mmo; 90% of the time I am on a hunter pet class (You guys can kind of see why me and XIV have not been mixing). The job design of XIV is, and has always been...Interesting...... compared to other mmo. I decided to sub up, to check out the Island, but there is no way I can complete the game playing jobs I do not like....

I usually stay on the free trial, unless there is a campaign I like, expansion, or in this case, some new content which resembles BST. I am not one of those "I quit!!!!" people. I usually come back every now and then. I am honest about it.

I am like every other FFXI OG; waiting for XIV to do something which can pry me from XI......But it never has.

XIV is going through a honeymoon period. Like WoW, people will eventually see XIV for what it is. Close your eyes, strip away the FF IP......Now focus on the gameplay....XIV aint so amazing, is it? Streamers are what took the game to stardom.

For years, I could not fathom how people raved about that generic Blizzard MMO. Until, the honeymoon phase took its course and people eventually stripped away the Blizzard IP and seen the game for what it was........ an old, generic, dated mmo.

Gameplay always reign supreme. XIV is by no means generic like WoW, but the job/class system leaves alot to be desired by this XI/MMO vet. If they let BLU do Main Scenario, I would full-time XIV, and play it with a smile on my face. Ironic the only job I like in the MMO, cant do the gist of the MMO. Like a cruel joke.

Imo, just my opinion.....they need a new direction with the class/jobs, even if that means a new voice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I doubt people back then weren't complaining just like how we are now. One thing I learned about online communities are that they never change and it's easy to get the nostalgic goggles when you stay long enough in a game.

---

I hear this so often but I have absolutely played games where their forums were mostly positive overall. It definitely is possible. Even though ff14 has always had some complaints, there was a point where most people would agree it was a great game. I took a break last patch and picked up some good single player games and their forums were night and day difference to here.

The problem is when a game has received negative feedback for long enough, people just start to assume that's normal. It's the opposite of nostalgia googles. We actually forget how good a game can be.

I play ff14 because it's the best MMO on the market, not because it's an amazing game and perfect. The MMO market is in a slump right now and recent competition has been poor quality. FF14 is riddled with flaws, but there just isn't anything better.

(1/2) I've been taking a break for several months now, though came back just to try out Island Sanctuary and maybe level occasionally. Endwalker was the first time I played a FFXIV expansion on launch and doing so made me realize that there were so many things about the game that felt like real pain points to me that I never realized before. For example: I decided that I'd level crafting to start making some gil to eventually buy a house. But at some point, I realized that to use the crafting macros that I'd need to use at high level, I needed the Manipulation skill--which you have to unlock on every class individually via job quests. But doing the job quests of each class often asks you to get materials that only other classes can craft, and to do those other classes' quests, you need other classes' items. That was a MAJOR pain point for me because why in the world for the level 45 carpenter quest do I need to have a level 33 leatherworker, a level 43 blacksmith, a level 30 alchemist, and a level 40 goldsmith in order to complete a quest that at this point in the game is largely irrelevant when it comes to current ilvl gear? And when you level those other classes, the same problem happens.

It's like a feedback loop that keeps on compounding and it overall makes the early crafting experience feel very very horrible for new players. And a common response the community to it is just "well, you shouldn't be crafting at low levels anyways. Wait until you're max level" or "just buy the items from the marketboard". For the latter bit, the problem with that is that more often than not you can't buy individual materials, you you might end up with 99 iron ingots and 98 of them you won't need, which is annoying at least and frustrating when the materials start getting very expensive because of the people that like selling low level items at inflated prices. The problem with the former is--it will take the average player hundreds of hours to get to the current max level. If people aren't supposed to touch crafting at such a low level, why is the option to do so even there? I expressed in a couple of discords about how I wish that some of these low level items--at least the ones you need to complete quests--could be crafted by multiple crafting jobs so you won't have to sit there and level multiple classes just to be able to complete an ARR crafting quest. And how it felt like the devs realized where they went wrong when in the expansions, they changed crafting quests to "oh, we'll just give you the materials you need. All YOU have to do is craft it". But... they never went back and changed the ARR quests to the same format.

(2/2) When I brought this up in different discords though, people got mad at me. They said: "Your idea would make other crafters irrelevant. Why would you ever level multiple classes if you could do it all on one class? Stop nitpicking, that's just how the game is and it's more immersive." I still don't know how in the world it would make other crafters irrelevant, six months later. If letting a level 25 carpenter craft all the craftable materials they need to make a level 25 Bow of You're-Gonna-Just-Give-This-To-An-NPC-Anyway is going to make other crafting classes irrelevant, then that sounds like there's something worse going on with the crafting in the game. And I'm pretty sure that a carpenter isn't the one that's supplying raiders with their BiS stat potions.

I originally had a lot more to say about some more problems I've been having w/ the game since EW, but that ended up reaching 9,000 characters so the TL;DR of it is: I'm not a fan of current dungeon design being just hallways filled with non-optional and non-EXP dropping mob packs (makes them feel like useless filler between bosses), healing in dungeons has become way less enjoyable to me with tank self-sustain getting buffed in EW so much, how I currently can't do the 6.2 MSQ because my ilvl is too low and I don't have the tomestones/gil to easily get up to that point atm (I'm not sure why you need to have a certain ilvl to use trusts to do MSQ, I wish they'd just scale your ilvl up for that since it's singleplayer but keep the requirement for you to have your real ilvl that high to do the content with other players), Island Sanctuary felt like it was full of a bunch of weird design choices (nodes only dropping 10 exp and 1 of each item, animals FLEEING more often than not which made getting rare, timegated/weathergated mobs a PAIN (it took several irl days to get a goobue :( ), having to gather crops/leavings from your garden/pasture 1 by 1 even with the mamets tending to them, etc.), and that I might just take another break until 7.0 because I know and hope that, by then, they'll have added some stuff to the game that will make these things less of a headache because seriously, playing this game at expac launch vs at X.5 patches feels ENTIRELY different due to what options they have available to you. I would NOT have gotten my crafters to level 80 before Endwalker if it wasn't for ARR/HW/SB/ShB beast tribes (started leveling them seriously for the first time during 5.5) and right now, trying to level them to 90 feels so tedious without that option being in the game.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anodic

(2/2)

---

You can have posts that go over the initial cap by making an initial post, then editing it, and pasting the rest of the post into it. Edits allow you to bypass the word limit. Just some helpful info for you in cause you didn't know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

You can have posts that go over the initial cap by making an initial post, then editing it, and pasting the rest of the post into it. Edits allow you to bypass the word limit. Just some helpful info for you in cause you didn't know.

---

Oh neat, thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crustyman

I'm gonna be honest, I've never tried endgame raiding. I've always been scarred to do it because I feel like it would be awful and I'd fuck up a ton, though the rewards seem really cool. The most endgame thing I've done was bozja and eureka which are pretty fun for the most part.

---

Are you including alliance raids and story-mode standard raids/trials in "endgame raiding"? Those aren't too daunting and there's plenty of leeway. Just join in and pay attention to mechanics. They've gotten better at making things intuitive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I hear this so often but I have absolutely played games where their forums were mostly positive overall. It definitely is possible. Even though ff14 has always had some complaints, there was a point where most people would agree it was a great game. I took a break last patch and picked up some good single player games and their forums were night and day difference to here.

The problem is when a game has received negative feedback for long enough, people just start to assume that's normal. It's the opposite of nostalgia googles. We actually forget how good a game can be.

I play ff14 because it's the best MMO on the market, not because it's an amazing game and perfect. The MMO market is in a slump right now and recent competition has been poor quality. FF14 is riddled with flaws, but there just isn't anything better.

---

Actually I just took a quick peek at the first few threads on this forum. Suffice to say there were a lot more technical game questions among the usual complaints about certain systems. Which makes sense since ARR was new and people cared more about the game than the story maybe?

I'll have to actually go back and take a throughout look to see more of the old forum.

Quote:

---

That was a MAJOR pain point for me because why in the world for the level 45 carpenter quest do I need to have a level 33 leatherworker, a level 43 blacksmith, a level 30 alchemist, and a level 40 goldsmith in order to complete a quest that at this point in the game is largely irrelevant when it comes to current ilvl gear? And when you level those other classes, the same problem happens.

---

Crafting has been interdependent from day one. This is news?

Quote:

---

or the latter bit, the problem with that is that more often than not you can't buy individual materials, you you might end up with 99 iron ingots and 98 of them you won't need, which is annoying at least and frustrating when the materials start getting very expensive because of the people that like selling low level items at inflated prices.

---

Or you get your miner, go out, mine the items then craft the ingots.

Quote:

---

The problem with the former is--it will take the average player hundreds of hours to get to the current max level.

---

*spits coffee everywhere*

Crafters get MEGA xp and youi can be done in a week, hell the daily GC turn in is a huge exp boost..there are also low level tribes like the ixal that hand out mega exp, hundreds of hours?

Dont be ridiculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

Crafting has been interdependent from day one. This is news?

---

Just because it's been in the game since day one doesn't mean that it's a good low level design or not frustrating to deal with for new players. It might have been okay in the past, but as time goes on and levels get higher, it just becomes more and more outdated and even wonky to deal with. Like I said before, in the expansions they removed the requirement to need multiple crafting classes leveled to complete crafting quests. And you're completely missing the point of the second bit. Yes, you can go gather on miner if you have mining leveled high enough to make some ingots. But for the people that don't? They will 9 times out of 10 buy from the market board. And when they do, a lot of the time they won't be able to purchase the exact amount they need, causing them to overbuy and essentially waste gil, and a lot of people will just end up leaving the material in their inventory, taking up space. The point is that they either are forced to buy in bulk or they are going to have to get lucky and see someone selling what they need at a higher price (I don't know why in 2022 we still can't pick how much of an item we want to buy from someone's supply). You can't always assume that people that are trying to take a dive into crafting are going to have every gathering class at an equivalent level either.

Not everyone is going to be looking ahead at the wiki for their carpenter quests to find out ahead of time that they're going to need a level 40 fisher in order to make a longbow for their level 50 quest. You can't realistically expect someone to either. Most new players to MMOs are going to take quests as they come, and it can be extremely discouraging to suddenly find out that you won't be able to complete a quest without either spending however many more hours leveling something else just to craft one item.

And the part about 'taking hundreds of hours to get to max level' is in relation to the combat class levels. I could've maybe worded that a little better, but the average player isn't going to speedrun their way to level 90 in less than a week, especially because people are always told to take their time while going through MSQ, and that means people will dabble into however many bits of side content or idling in a capital city to socialize that they want on their journey. Thus, hundreds of hours. People have told me many times in discords and in shout chat that you should only take a serious look at crafting after you get to your first max combat class level. And if someone is getting every single crafter to max level in the span of one week, they certainly have a lot more freetime on their hands than most people do considering that to do so, you're going to have to spend a lot of your hours gathering in Diadem and turning those materials into craftables. Otherwise there's no way you're getting everything maxed with beast tribe quests and GC turn ins alone.

I've been feeling something similar this past week. For me it's a combination of a bunch of things. The current story/character direction feels weak, their intentions towards job design make me worry about being able to enjoy the same jobs a year from now, not having enough of the things I enjoy doing. In other games I've always ended up settling into pvp and housing type stuff when the normal routine gets...well...routine. Unfortunately for me, both of those things are awful in this game. The main new thing of the expansion is basically a glorified phone game. I have zero interest in savage raiding, which pretty much leaves me with roulettes and beast tribe stuff.

One of the biggest things that really sucked me into the game when I started playing last year was the story/characters/setting/etc. Over the course of this expansion, the allure of those things has been all but obliterated. Combined with my other issues and it makes me wonder why I keep playing. I honestly thought it would take me longer to get to this point.

When I step back and try to look objectively at the big picture I can't help but wonder if the only reason this game is doing as well as it is, is because every other offering on the market is a complete dumpster fire.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anodic

^this, and!

---

It's actually worse when you consider that you also need to gear yourself up. Naturally, you can try to gear yourself up with vendor stuff or Marketboard items. But odds are if you're starting out, you don't have that much money to spend away (unless you're shady). So you'll be gathering some stuff and realize that you need to level up all crafters at the same time because making gear requires stuff found in only one class's list. And it's doubled down if you add in the Gatherers.

I honestly agree with VelKallor. Like, it's not that bad. And Square has made the experience easy to go through. The rest of his post mentions how easy it is to get experience. So if you want to do stuff from one class's list with materials only found in another, the game gives you a bit of a window of opportunity to get it up to par.

But it's slow. Especially at lower levels, it's slow. And worse still if you've neglected any class other than Culinarian, the drag piles up. And if you're a sprout that doesn't know they have to do this, it becomes daunting. It does get better at higher levels and especially if you've been levelling them all at the same time, but it doesn't break that initial impact.

Quote:

---

Like I said before, in the expansions they removed the requirement to need multiple crafting classes leveled to complete crafting quests.

---

Did they?

I seem to recall needing LW , ARM and other jobs to make gear back then, as well as craft quest items.

Quote:

---

Yes, you can go gather on miner if you have mining leveled high enough to make some ingots

---

What? Iron ore is a level 15 item. Ingots are made by both BSM and ARM, again low level....btw I hate to be the one to remind you of this, but those ores are easily obtainable at vendors in all the cities for dirt cheap prices.

Quote:

---

Just because it's been in the game since day one doesn't mean that it's a good low level design or not frustrating to deal with for new players.

---

It works fine...take that from someone who was here and levelled crafting pre nerfs, pre Restoration. THAT was painful.

Quote:

---

Otherwise there's no way you're getting everything maxed with beast tribe quests and GC turn ins alone

---

GC turn ins, collectibles at 50 that give humungous xp, tribes like the ixal, daily leves that also give a hunk of exp, the craft quests hand out tools and gear ( they do, remember? ). in all truth you can power level crafters making one set of items

ALL the crafter houses have vendors that again sell low level mats at dirt cheap prices, so materials arent an issue.

Gridania, Ferrol at the CRP guild, Osgyth at the LW guild..and you CAN INDEED by one piece of ore, or a dozen from these vendors. ( I am standing in front of him now ) Smydhaemr and Soemrwyb at the BSM / ARM guilds at Limsa....or didnt you know those vendors existed?

They sell copper ore, tin ore, iron ore, copper ingots, brass ingots,.maple and ash lumber, leather, hard leather ..all you need for low level crafting...and all dirt cheap.

You LITERALLY have zero need to go to the MB, as these are all available at your fingertips.

I really suggest you go tour the craft halls and see for yourself.

Quote:

---

If letting a level 25 carpenter craft all the craftable materials they need to make a level 25 Bow of You're-Gonna-Just-Give-This-To-An-NPC-Anyway

---

Every crafter has their own storyline, and that one, as I remember......

.....saves the life of your craftmasters dearest friend..and yours as well.

Im sorry but to me it looks like you havent actually looked more closely at just how much is provided for you....and how much easier it is now than it was three years ago.

A lot of older players I talk to have this weird "the game was better before it got popular" kind of attitude. I have no idea what I'm missing out on though, so I can't really relate.

Neko, IMO the game is better now..but take it from me, levelling crafting in 2019 was....painful. I had to make an hq item for a craft quest, less than a few weeks into the game, craft failed , I lost my hq helm component that had ALREADY been a pain to make.

I "almost" threw the keyboard at the wall...then sighed and went back to it. You dont want to know what I said aloud.

I have levelled all crafters a few times, and trust me, now? Is a cakewalk as opposed to how it used to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

A lot of older players I talk to have this weird "the game was better before it got popular" kind of attitude. I have no idea what I'm missing out on though, so I can't really relate.

---

You don't have to be an older player to notice some of this stuff. I just started playing last year and there's definitely things from earlier parts of the game where you can tell a clear difference in quality/direction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

Did they?

I seem to recall needing LW , ARM and other jobs to make gear back then, as well as craft quest items.

---

LVL 63 Carpenter Quest: The Game of Confidence. The NPCs provide you with the item "Dressing Case Materials" in order to make the "Lavish Dressing Case" item. So yes, in the expansion quests, the NPCs start to provide you with what you need already. And again, you're assuming that the new player has picked up BSM or ARM in that situation. A new Carpenter that finds out they would have to go all the way to the 2nd floor of Limsa just to pick up BSM or ARM, and then would have to level them to 13 or 16, could rather very much choose to circumvent that completely and just purchase the ingots flat out. Because even though the ores might be CHEAP to obtain, you still have to go out of your way to level another class to put them to use, and some people might just not feel like going through that at the time. And my point about not being able to purchase individual items is about the MARKET BOARD player listings, not NPC vendors. You can't buy 1 ingot from a PLAYER's stack of 99 that they have listed.

Your leveling of crafters in the past has nothing to do with how a new player might feel now. The demographic of new MMO players is different now than it was back then. People are far quicker to give up on things that frustrate them nowadays then they were before. A functional system =/= one that's automatically fun or not annoying to deal with. There's a reason why so many games change old systems when their remasters come out. Do you really think a new player wouldn't find it annoying/jarring that they're just leveling their first crafter, knowing nothing of 99% of crafting mechanics yet, and suddenly they're hit with a: "To do this next quest, you're going to have to pick up these two other classes from two other cities and level them up enough to craft this one item you need for this quest you were trying to complete like an hour or two ago"? And I don't understand why you're bringing up crafter storyline at all here? What does that have anything to do with the argument? Are you saying that because this item you're making saves an NPC from death in a cutscene you'll see once and never again, that's good enough reason to not bring the old ARR crafting quests in line with modern standards? The item you make in the same exact fashion as other items you gave to the same NPC before over and over again?

It might be easier to level now than it was back in the day, but that's not the issue here. New players aren't going to know about all these super efficient/juicy ways of getting crafting exp fast. They aren't going to know what classes they need to complete the crafting quests of what crafting job they're trying to focus on at the time. You might think it's so easy and simple and quick nowadays, but for someone that knows absolutely nothing about the game or the crafting system? I guarantee you that you'll rarely find someone that reacts to a sudden wall of "I know you're trying to complete this class's quest, but you need to pick up these two other classes first to finish it" in a positive way. No one likes having to take a detour when they're just trying to drive home. Crafting in the ARR section of the game will be someone's first impression of what crafting is like, and as levels keep getting higher and higher, that first impression will get more and more important.

Quote:

---

Your leveling of crafters in the past has nothing to do with how a new player might feel now

---

Did it at least 4 times, pre and post, from scratch , so yes I do know.

Quote:

---

The demographic of new MMO players is different now than it was back then.

---

..mate, Im almost 61, and have been gaming since the 90's. I know more than you realise.

Quote:

---

People are far quicker to give up on things that frustrate them nowadays then they were before

---

Thats a them problem. If you throw the towel in when things get a little difficult, thats not the games fault.

Crafting takes patience.

Quote:

---

A functional system =/= one that's automatically fun or not annoying to deal with.

---

.....yeah..not true at all.

Quote:

---

. And my point about not being able to purchase individual items is about the MARKET BOARD player listings, not NPC vendors. You can't buy 1 ingot from a PLAYER's stack of 99 that they have listed.

---

You can craft them at level 15 which is hardly a major problem. ARM and BSM both at the same craft hall in Limsa.

There are comprehensive online guides, there is the NN, there are mentors, they have plenty of help.

i dont see an issue here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

..mate, Im almost 61, and have been gaming since the 90's. I know more than you realise.

---

Uuuuuuhhhh... That's a pretty weird flex, bruh. Need we start fearing some good old fashioned "Back in my day!" next?

Quote:

---

Uuuuuuhhhh... That's a pretty weird flex, bruh. Need we start fearing some good old fashioned "Back in my day!" next?

---

Just a general response to the comment on demographics, Senti. I was involved ( to a small extent ) in the gaming industry since the 90's, and have learned a lot in that time.

Back in the days? Not really my thing, but...I sure as hell dont miss the days of being knocked offline when a phone call came in.

:eek::eek:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crustyman

*Snip, because character limit*

---

Definitely sounds like you need a break!

I will note, though, that one saving grace of FFXIV is the lack of FOMO. I feel this is often overlooked, but it really shouldn't be taken for granted.
The MMO I played prior to FFXIV was very much committed to a FOMO model. They created high-pressure events that coerce or funnel players into a specific activity that, in most cases, they hate but feel like they have to put up with in order to get a reward (and then point at the predictably-high engagement numbers as "proof" that players like that activity to justify maintaining said business model).

Even going on holiday meant missing 'event progress' and therefore missing out on an event reward - though this was deliberate since they had/have a 'buyout' option where you could use their cash shop to either buy the event out in it's entirety or buy event progress for the days you missed. And failing that, they put the item/reward from the event in the cash store itself, as part of an expensive bundle (of mostly 'fluff' items to justify a higher price) at a later date.

I really don't miss that sort of sleazy business model at all and applaud FFXIV for not having gone down that path.

So yeah, take a break - the game, unlike others, doesn't punish you for doing so. :)

Re: weird crafting debate:

I have leveled all my crafters to cap exclusively on weekly tribes, GC leves, NPC deliveries and the newer 70+/80+ trade-ins. I never even touched the Rowena scrip trade-ins and never needed to.

1 stack of 100 GC leves was easily enough to get a job to 50 back in the 2.x/3.x days.. with the xp boost I’m sure it’s more. The hardest part for me was to get it to 50 only because the only real source I had was the GC leves. Now you have the Ixal, so I imagine it’s even easier.


I’m not sure what the complaints are about getting materials, but if it is a money issue, pick and choose GCs that are the cheapest per leve or offer a profit. The only reason you would need to do otherwise is because you can’t wait for leve allowance to replenish.

Moreover, nothing requires you to do any crafter quest as soon as it is available. You can easily get to (for example) 50 before doing all of the 1-50 set. And it will be much much easier with the 50 gear…assuming you even need to make anything at all (I wanna say I just bought whatever was requested off the MB until maybe ShB)