SE, please listen to the constant feedback about the glamour system

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

And we all saw how bad Cataclysm was due to devoting time to rewriting the engine. Would you, or any of these other people, be okay with having little to no content in an expansion release to get a new engine?

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Besides, the idea that one of the world's most succesful games needs to rewrite its engine is pretty stupid anyway.

Yoshi-p has said he'd like to create a new MMO from scratch.
Maybe after he's proven himself able to head two games at once with FFXVI, he'll get his chance with FFXVII. I'd rather have that than have them bring FFXIV content release to a halt just to so the new game can be FFXIV instead of FFXVII.

I don't mind starting from scratch on the new game, as opposed to carrying all my FFXIV stuff into it. That latter desire is probably part of the reson some people prefer a rewrite to a new game.

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

People said the same thing about Hrothgar ears, Male Viera, etc. and here we are.

When I pay for something, I don't just settle for mediocrity. Especially when I know the devs can do better. People do have unrealistic demands sometimes, but this isn't one of them.

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That's a very different situation as it only requires the art team to put in extra work. They didn't even want to add those races, but there was overwhelming demand. They never promised it would be perfect and it's got a long way to go before it comes close.


Inventory management is where they make a lot of their money.


When you pay for something like this, you buy it as is. You signed an agreement to that effect. You don't get to make ridiculous demands and have them follow through to the letter.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

All I said was "I want this thing", and you're the one being hostile towards people who want that thing.

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Another lie. You said " there's a lot more people that would rather a more comprehensive log system than what we have now." That's a direct quote, not a paraphrase: unlike you, I don't try to deceive people regarding what other people posted by putting supposed "paraphrasing" inside quotation marks.

So if I seem hostile to people who are obviously telling lies ...

Later:

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

And yes, there IS a lot of people that want a more comprehensive log system ...

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Now you are trying to deceive people about what you yourself posted. You wrote:

"And honestly there's a lot more people that would rather a more comprehensive log system than what we have now" (emphasis added)

which is an entirely different statement. It's the difference between saying, for example "a lot of people voted for Clinton" (officially true) and "a lot more people voted for Clinton than Trump" (officially false).

You do know what this concept they call "truth" is, don't you?

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

that lets the majority of its users dictate what features are added is committing suicide

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Happy? Just because the wording isn't the same doesn't mean it can't contain the same meaning. That's what paraphrasing is. And yes, there IS a lot of people that want a more comprehensive log system, we wouldn't have a bunch of threads with lots of replies if that wasn't true, where's the lie in that? You are being hostile about it. The first post you had in this thread pointed to people that want a log system as a group of complainers, your first reply to me was taking some personal offence over the word "we".

For anyone else that frequents the forum, is Silverbane normally like this? Or did I just find them on a bad day?

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

Happy? Just because the wording isn't the same doesn't mean it can't contain the same meaning. That's what paraphrasing is. And yes, there IS a lot of people that want a more comprehensive log system, we wouldn't have a bunch of threads with lots of replies if that wasn't true, where's the lie in that? You are being hostile about it. The first post you had in this thread pointed to people that want a log system as a group of complainers, your first reply to me was taking some personal offence over the word "we".

For anyone else that frequents the forum, is Silverbane normally like this? Or did I just find them on a bad day?

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Silverbane has a strange obsession with defending one of the worst systems FFXIV has to offer. So yes, this is typical.


In any case, I'd say it's a matter of time for the glamour dresser to be reworked. Most likely with 7.0 or its patches, as that expansion already seems to be heavier on the reworks.

I'm looking forward to it. That and the removal of the role restrictions of course.

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Originally Posted by Siddiax

Silverbane has a strange obsession with defending one of the worst systems the game has. So yes, this is the usual.

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Nah, I just dislike letting charlatans, liars, and the unredeemably deluded/ignorant run rampant, and the group of posters demanding the glamour system change has a high population of all of those.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Now you are trying to deceive people about what you yourself posted. You wrote:
"And honestly there's a lot more people that would rather a more comprehensive log system than what we have now"

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The "than what we have now" is in regards to the current glamour system we have now compared to a log system, you're the one twisting the truth here. At best I could've worded it better, but you're the one spouting lies here and putting words in my mouth.

I'm done, you never intended to argue in good faith and Siddiax just confirmed it for me that you're not worth my time.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Nah, I just dislike letting charlatans, liars, and the unredeemably deluded/ignorant run rampant, and the group of posters demanding the glamour system change has a high population of all of those.

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Who are you, the forum police ?

Do you realise how sad you look arguing against hundreds (much more outside the forums) who wish for the rework of a lacking system ?

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Originally Posted by Siddiax

Do you realise how sad you look arguing against hundreds (much more outside the forums) who wish for the rework of a lacking system ?

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Damn, HUNDREDS you say? Out of the MILLIONS of players out there?
That's pretty weak support for your side, especially since unhappy people are more likely to publicly complain than happy ones are.

But if you want to accuse me of being an iconoclast (look it up) I'll gladly accept the honor.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Damn, HUNDREDS you say? Out of the MILLIONS of players out there?
That's pretty weak support for your side, especially since unhappy people are more likely to publicly complain than happy ones are.

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Damn, I thought you couldn't top your ridiculous attempts at arguments. My apologies for not surveying every single FFXIV player on the planet.

Here's the thing though - "weak" support is better than no support.

Where are the people sharing your opinion I wonder ?

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

That's a very different situation as it only requires the art team to put in extra work. They didn't even want to add those races, but there was overwhelming demand. They never promised it would be perfect and it's got a long way to go before it comes close.


Inventory management is where they make a lot of their money.


When you pay for something like this, you buy it as is. You signed an agreement to that effect. You don't get to make ridiculous demands and have them follow through to the letter.

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A) It's a live service. We pay a subscription fee, of which some part goes to fund active development of the game. They're under no obligation to acknowledge anything we say, but we are under no obligation to continue paying either.

B) There's nothing ridiculous being asked for. FFXIV is not run by a small company by any means. I wouldn't dare say it'd be easy, but they can absolutely do it. They simply don't prioritize it.

C) I'm criticizing the developers for their priorities and their lack of keeping up with their competition. I'm not "demanding" anything.

D) You're incorrect about it only being art assets. New races have a ton of considerations.


All that said, I don't understand your goal here, honestly. You readily admit these things would be nice to have, but then feel the need to tell everyone else in this thread they're wrong for asking for it. You complain about people wanting to voice their concerns (when it's what they were actually told to do mind you), yet still feel compelled to view and comment in the threads that contain the things you supposedly hate. You're literally in every single one of these threads arguing with people. Do you just like arguing for the sake of arguing? If the game itself is satisfactory to you, why are you even here all the time instead of playing it?

I'm actually kinda curious how things work if all goes as you want and nobody expresses anything they want from the game. Do you expect the developers to be mind readers? To magically know when people have concerns about things? You think people will just blindly pay a subscription fee and buy the latest expansion if this game falls far behind it's contemporaries?

If they want to support this game for another decade, as alleged, they will absolutely need to make changes to keep up with other MMOs. The glamour system is part of that. FFXIV has built up a ton of (well deserved imo) good will over the years that allowed people to overlook significant issues, but the problem with relying on good will is that it eventually runs out. This game will not last another decade on good will alone.

It's great to see that more and more people are talking about the glamour system. Lifting the role glamour restrictions and letting us cross-role glam gear is the most logical way to go forward for this game considering the way jobs are designed aesthetically and gear is being designed for them each patch. Most of the new 6.2 gear is yet another prime example of why the restrictions must be lifted as soon as possible. Generally, having a collections log similar to WoW's would be one of the best additions to this game but that mustn't overshadow the importance of lifting restrictions. I would in fact argue that lifting the restrictions should be top priority in terms of glamour updates as it is still more important.

Also, as someone who's been active in threads about glamour on the forums and on Reddit over the past half a year+ and has seen the same 3 people speaking against the idea, trying to come up with technical reasons for why it cannot happen (pulling it out of their *** 10/10 times), "white knighting" or just simply trolling and has dealt with them - I would say it is better to just not give naysayers too much time of day at this point because not only are they very few and far between, they have no arguments whatsoever and the players who wish for this change are the vast overwhelming majority anyway (we even had Zepla cover this and support the idea very recently). A few bad apples won't change much in the grand scheme of things if SQE are willing to listen.

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

A) It's a live service. We pay a subscription fee, of which some part goes to fund active development of the game. They're under no obligation to acknowledge anything we say, but we are under no obligation to continue paying either.

B) There's nothing ridiculous being asked for. FFXIV is not run by a small company by any means. I wouldn't dare say it'd be easy, but they can absolutely do it. They simply don't prioritize it.

C) I'm criticizing the developers for their priorities and their lack of keeping up with their competition. I'm not "demanding" anything.

D) You're incorrect about it only being art assets. New races have a ton of considerations.


All that said, I don't understand your goal here, honestly. You readily admit these things would be nice to have, but then feel the need to tell everyone else in this thread they're wrong for asking for it. You complain about people wanting to voice their concerns (when it's what they were actually told to do mind you), yet still feel compelled to view and comment in the threads that contain the things you supposedly hate. You're literally in every single one of these threads arguing with people. Do you just like arguing for the sake of arguing? If the game itself is satisfactory to you, why are you even here all the time instead of playing it?

I'm actually kinda curious how things work if all goes as you want and nobody expresses anything they want from the game. Do you expect the developers to be mind readers? To magically know when people have concerns about things? You think people will just blindly pay a subscription fee and buy the latest expansion if this game falls far behind it's contemporaries?

If they want to support this game for another decade, as alleged, they will absolutely need to make changes to keep up with other MMOs. The glamour system is part of that. FFXIV has built up a ton of (well deserved imo) good will over the years that allowed people to overlook significant issues, but the problem with relying on good will is that it eventually runs out. This game will not last another decade on good will alone.

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https://i.imgur.com/VuX5vI9.png

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

A) It's a live service. We pay a subscription fee, of which some part goes to fund active development of the game. They're under no obligation to acknowledge anything we say, but we are under no obligation to continue paying either.

B) There's nothing ridiculous being asked for. FFXIV is not run by a small company by any means. I wouldn't dare say it'd be easy, but they can absolutely do it. They simply don't prioritize it.

C) I'm criticizing the developers for their priorities and their lack of keeping up with their competition. I'm not "demanding" anything.

D) You're incorrect about it only being art assets. New races have a ton of considerations.


All that said, I don't understand your goal here, honestly. You readily admit these things would be nice to have, but then feel the need to tell everyone else in this thread they're wrong for asking for it. You complain about people wanting to voice their concerns (when it's what they were actually told to do mind you), yet still feel compelled to view and comment in the threads that contain the things you supposedly hate. You're literally in every single one of these threads arguing with people. Do you just like arguing for the sake of arguing? If the game itself is satisfactory to you, why are you even here all the time instead of playing it?

I'm actually kinda curious how things work if all goes as you want and nobody expresses anything they want from the game. Do you expect the developers to be mind readers? To magically know when people have concerns about things? You think people will just blindly pay a subscription fee and buy the latest expansion if this game falls far behind it's contemporaries?

If they want to support this game for another decade, as alleged, they will absolutely need to make changes to keep up with other MMOs. The glamour system is part of that. FFXIV has built up a ton of (well deserved imo) good will over the years that allowed people to overlook significant issues, but the problem with relying on good will is that it eventually runs out. This game will not last another decade on good will alone.

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I'm not trying to keep people from expressing opinions. That's clearly what you're trying to do lobbing all this nonsense my way.



I just don't see what all these threads are going to do. I wasn't going to be responsible for bringing this back to the front, but clearly the sheep have to come bleat in the echo chamber. You question my involvement in these threads and it's very hypocritical. Every time you point a finger, you have 3 pointing right back at you.



There's only so much that can be done in so much time. In the meantime, consider consolidating your efforts so they can better see just how much this matters.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I'm not trying to keep people from expressing opinions. That's clearly what you're trying to do lobbing all this nonsense my way.

There's only so much that can be done in so much time. In the meantime, consider consolidating your efforts so they can better see just how much this matters.

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You are in every single thread aruging with the OP on any topic, often second to post on a new thread. You are literally trying to gate people expressing opinions and arguing for the sake of arguing even if its a topic you support. If you don't like people giving FFXIV game related feedback on the FFXIV game related feedback forum, then why are you here?

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Not everyone agrees SE should be spending developer resources on changing the glamour system.
Everyone I play with is perfectly fine with it.
Myself, I'd like to be able to store dyes in the chest for application to the glamour plates, but that's just a QoL suggestion that I'm not salty about lacking.

Just because there are a small number of persistent complainers about something in the forums, that doesn't mean that most of the player base isn't happy with it.

And some of the requests for changes to the glamour system, like unlimited storage for gear, are game-breakingly stupid. SE is not going to implement that, for reasons that have been pointed out many times. The complaints of people who pig-headedly refuse to understand that shouldn't be taken seriously.

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Behold ladies and gentlemen, the perfect customer.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

Behold ladies and gentlemen, the perfect customer.

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Not even. A business needs feedback, even more so a gaming company. Without feedback they wouldn't know what it's best to improve etc. A customer who doesn't give feedback because they think giving feedback is being mean is pretty useless apart from the money they give. They don't help at all the company grow and that's so counterproductive,

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

Behold ladies and gentlemen, the perfect customer.

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I just laugh when people, unable to refute what I post, attack me instead.
Because why would they resort to posts that are exclusively ad hominem attacks, except that they had nothing else to offer? Nothing to post except to make the thread about me?

But I expect no better from the Internet.
After all, not many people have been taught how to construct a rational argument.
And no one is born with that skill.

When someone has no perspective:

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I'm not trying to keep people from expressing opinions. That's clearly what you're trying to do lobbing all this nonsense my way.



I just don't see what all these threads are going to do. I wasn't going to be responsible for bringing this back to the front, but clearly the sheep have to come bleat in the echo chamber. You question my involvement in these threads and it's very hypocritical. Every time you point a finger, you have 3 pointing right back at you.



There's only so much that can be done in so much time. In the meantime, consider consolidating your efforts so they can better see just how much this matters.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Not even. A business needs feedback, even more so a gaming company. Without feedback they wouldn't know what it's best to improve etc. A customer who doesn't give feedback because they think giving feedback is being mean is pretty useless apart from the money they give. They don't help at all the company grow and that's so counterproductive,

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Except since the average gamer consumer is not just dumb as a brick but also utterly incapable of critical thinking, they don't need feedback to sell cheaply made digital trash for exorbitant proces, and there's no need to improve the game when you have people whos entire personality is tied to a game and their player character.

Also, basically every company that has a successfull game as a service game in their pocket uses it to milk money out of idiots that they funnel to other projects. Maybe when something better eventually comes along and people start leaving for greener pastures they'll finally try some damage control as they attempt to keep their playerbase around, but until then, it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

I just laugh when people, unable to refute what I post, attack me instead.
Because why would they resort to posts that are exclusively ad hominem attacks, except that they had nothing else to offer? Nothing to post except to make the thread about me?

But I expect no better from the Internet.
After all, not many people have been taught how to construct a rational argument.
And no one is born with that skill.

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That's rich coming from the person who blanketly attacked everyone with an opinion different from their own.

Yoshida! Please listen to us arguing and bickering like smelly 4 year olds!

Tbh, that's typical official forums thread ( i rarely post myself, prefer to just read the threads lol)

I don't want the system reworked. Does my opinion have a say on this matter? Probably not.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

I don't want the system reworked. Does my opinion have a say on this matter? Probably not.

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Everyone is allowed to have an opinion, and state their opinion. When things turn into personal attacks, that's when whoever has resorted to those attacks gets their opinions thrown out the window. Usually because they can't even keep a discussion civil.

It's perfectly fine to have differing opinions, but things like one of the tags at the bottom of this being "white knights go away", those just show that people can't have civil discourse. And honestly, because of that type of stuff, is why the NA forums are largely ignored. And because there tend to be dozens of threads about the exact same thing rather than one large thread that is easier to search through for information when brought to the devs attention.

When a game like GW2 can have the dye system it does at the height of its popularity while having also released in 2012, I don't want to hear that it's impossible in FFXIV.

When City of Heroes, an MMO that was created in 2004 could have literally millions of outfit combinations (that can be changed any time) and working cape physics, not to mention that NCSoft's budget was a fraction of what SquareEnix can manage, I don't want to hear it's impossible in FFXIV.

I understand there being higher priorities at the moment but Square really needs to bite the bullet and overhaul this game's engine. The failed 1.0 foundation is seriously holding this game back. It could be so much more amazing if the time and resources were dedicated to it. We could also do without Yoshi using the "cross-class weapons" strawman argument whenever he speaks about the topic.

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Originally Posted by Jagick

When a game like GW2 can have the dye system it does at the height of its popularity while having also released in 2012, I don't want to hear that it's impossible in FFXIV.

When City of Heroes, an MMO that was created in 2004 could have literally millions of outfit combinations (that can be changed any time) and working cape physics, not to mention that NCSoft's budget was a fraction of what SquareEnix can manage, I don't want to hear it's impossible in FFXIV.

I understand there being higher priorities at the moment but Square really needs to bite the bullet and overhaul this game's engine. The failed 1.0 foundation is seriously holding this game back. It could be so much more amazing if the time and resources were dedicated to it. We could also do without Yoshi using the "cross-class weapons" strawman argument whenever he speaks about the topic.

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We could also do without Yoshi and everyone in the dev team currently. Replace them all with new, hip and fresher people.






of course Im joking btw.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

I don't want the system reworked. Does my opinion have a say on this matter? Probably not.

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You get as much say as anyone here. And just as much as someone who posts hundreds of times with the same complaint. (Most of us learned as children that repeating the same demand again and again and again wasn't productive, but there's always someone who misses the memo.)

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Originally Posted by Jagick

I understand there being higher priorities at the moment [than doing an overhaul of the engine] ...

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And there always will be. They've overhauled FFXIV once. I think next time, they'll just create a new MMO and leave this one generating revenue, like they did with FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Jagick

When a game like GW2 can have ...

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We do have a dye system -- that you apparently don't like.

We do have a system for outfit combinations that can be changed any time ... that you apparently don't like.

I get it. You want your favorite <insert gaming idea from another game> in this game. Ask for it, politely. Do not get irate if there is no response, or you are told "no". Feel free, of course, to express displeasure by halting your subscription and moving on to another game that has everything you desire. I have never found such a game, mind you, in the 40+ years I've been playing computer games. A few come close, including this one.

The 'failed foundation of 1.0' is not holding the game back. They completely ditched the underlying game engine when they started rebuilding the game 10 years ago. About the only thing they took from 1.0 was a [buggy] networking infrastructure and a lot of art.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

... of course Im joking btw.

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Phew. I was starting to think that someone actually believes that Western cultural ideas about "new, hip and fresher people" are even possible given the requirement that this game's developers speak and write Japanese fluently.

More slots isn't what people are asking for. People are asking for it to be completely re-worked so that there are no slots period.

So that it works how WoW works: You get a piece of gear: YAY IT'S UNLOCKED! No prisms needed. No 'slots' needed. It's just there now. Forever. Congratulations.

People also want items to not be class locked other than artifact gear and weapons. If you own the glam? Congratualtions: It's now a level 1, any class item.

THAT'S what we want. Not bandaids with more spaces and 10 more plates. Rework. The. System.

I say code n do it yourself if you feel so inclined...jokes aside folks really need to chill out. I'm not about to to tell the devs what they "need" to do as the current system isn't broken. It's works and functions just fine. Could it be better? Yes and I'm sure with time it will get better. But I'm not about to make 100 threads about it.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

I love your posts. It's like watching an adult try to explain to toddlers why they can't have unlimited juice boxes.

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It's like watching a man-child whine about players making suggestions to the devs.

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Originally Posted by Siddiax

It's like watching a man-child whine about players making suggestions to the devs.

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Because that is exactly what he is doing. He's not only completely wrong but what he's doing serves no purpose, it won't change anyone's mind and especially not the devs. Most people are well aware that player feedback is crucial to the development of a game and this is player feedback. The system needs a rework and certain changes need to be made, thats just an objective fact.

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Originally Posted by Flaws

He's not only completely wrong ...

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Easy to claim, but can you prove it? I didn't think so.
Perhaps in your mind, things are true because you say so.
That's not how it works in reality.

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Originally Posted by Flaws

but what he's doing serves no purpose, it won't change anyone's mind

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It's not my fault so many here are immune to reason and pig-headed to boot.

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Originally Posted by Flaws

The system needs a rework and certain changes need to be made, thats just an objective fact.

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You don't actually know what "objective fact" means, do you?
Because your statement is provably wrong:

• the FFXIV glamour system works, even if you don't like how it works. Proof of that its that it is used millions of times a week, and there are no reports of system-breaking bugs.
• Ergo, the only reason you think it "needs" a rework/changes is because it doesn't work the way you want.
• However, "the way you want" is inherently subjective, and therefore (by definition) not objective.
• QED: you are proven wrong: the system needing changes/reworks is not "objective fact."
  It's just your opinion.

But, I don't expect mere logic to convince you of that. Or of anything: After all, you said nothing I post can change your mind, right? Well, because people whose minds cannot be changed are not my intended audience, I'd be fine with you putting me on ignore.
Second-person phrasing or not, I'm really not writing this for you:
I'm just pointing you out as a cautionary tale for the rest of the forum.