Players have ruined deep dungeon for people who want chests

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

But you are allowed. Just as I'm allowed to sit at the exit after I've activated by killing the required number of monsters to do so. If you want to fly off and get silver chests, I'll respect it. I just ask that you respect my choice as well. Besides, it's not like I can go anywhere until everyone's at the exit portal.

The only difference is that only one us is actually hindering progress through the floors should one decide to completely disregard the activated exit until they get what they want. I'll let you figure that one out.

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Still don't agree with you on this. The purpose of the content is to level up your stats, and find all that is available to the party. It's not just for leveling up. There are other means of doing things in the dungeons.

Honestly leveling up should possibly even be removed from deep dungeon, because it's become such a detriment to the content itself. It sucks for people who didn't get it done, or are new to deep dungeon to have to adhere to people who use it just for fast levels, while they are interested in the content itself. I'm never going to change my mind on this. It's not fair, or good to the people who want to participate in the experience of the deep dungeons. You shouldn't have to struggle to get level 99, and take extra long to do it just because people are lazy, and won't put up a few extra minutes at a time so that everyone can get what they want out of it. All of you are wrong, and contributing to a negative experience.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Still don't agree with you on this. The purpose of the content is to level up your stats, and find all that is available to the party. It's not just for leveling up. There are other means of doing things in the dungeons.

Honestly leveling up should possibly even be removed from deep dungeon, because it's become such a detriment to the content itself. It sucks for people who didn't get it done, or are new to deep dungeon to have to adhere to people who use it just for fast levels, while they are interested in the content itself. I'm never going to change my mind on this. It's not fair, or good to the people who want to participate in the experience of the deep dungeons. You shouldn't have to struggle to get level 99, and take extra long to do it just because people are lazy, and won't put up a few extra minutes at a time so that everyone can get what they want out of it. All of you are wrong, and contributing to a negative experience.

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Make. Your. Own. Party.
Or ask friends to help.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

Make. Your. Own. Party.
Or ask friends to help.

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They have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the culture random groups is performed.

You might have a better chance convincing a fish it needs a bicycle.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Given the chance, players will always optimize the fun out of anything. And since most people only run deep dungeons to level jobs they don't want to bother with in any other content.....

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Tbh that's a huge issue with xiv at large. Everyone bum rushes any and all pieces of content then folks scream at the devs due to "lack of content & boring game".

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Tbh that's a huge issue with xiv at large. Everyone bum rushes any and all pieces of content then folks scream at the devs due to "lack of content & boring game".

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...Would floors 1-50 be any more thrilling if we'd just do them... slower?

I get that difficulty and its engagement lasts longer when a community takes longer to learn how to handle it (often to the point of making non-mechanics of it entirely), but it hardly seems worth blaming the players for a puzzle being so easily solved or having so little to offer, in terms of engagement, after its initial solving.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

If you get mad about someone going to pick up a chest or kick, then you obstruct one of the purposes of Deep Dungeon, and that is pretty much end of story, you can get reported for illegal kick/obstruction, as it is not ok, especially not if the chest is there, also it take so little to pick it up and you may even end earning some gil on it as well.

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Another, and far more frequently aimed for, purpose of Deep Dungeon, though, is leveling. That more popular purpose is slowed by delaying the floor's completion to further farm or collect chests. Are we really to argue that asking someone to favor that purpose, if held by the majority of the party, over spending the group's time to collect chests (for that someone's own sole benefit) should be reportable despite the latter being the more selfish behavior?

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Tbh that's a huge issue with xiv at large. Everyone bum rushes any and all pieces of content then folks scream at the devs due to "lack of content & boring game".

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It's not remotely unique to FFXIV. Any multiplayer game will eventually end up that way.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Tbh that's a huge issue with xiv at large. Everyone bum rushes any and all pieces of content then folks scream at the devs due to "lack of content & boring game".

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Would the content be more enticing or would there be more content if we rp walked through the same expert dungeon every day? Or if we did that in potd? looking at the walls and backgrounds? You do that once and then your like ... "okay i did that".

Forcing the player into things they have to potentially run 100s of times can only end in them choosing the path of least resistance and max out effort and value vs time.

This is such a non issue, running 50-60 gives you plenty buffs to your weapon/armor to get all glamour weapons. The only possible way you can run into a problem with this is if you wanted to do a necromancer run and you never did a 200 run before, and how many players would even attempt that?

You will eventually have 70/70 from just spamming 50-60 which even if you wanted to do a 200 run with a static is plenty as you will be 99/99 by the time you need to be.

This happened before on a larger scale in DR in which the players started to filter out those who were not willing to put effort in to get the duty done fast and the result was runs that took 12-15min in pre mades and those that took 40-50min in df.

players have ruined everything!
Damn players! they ruined the game!

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Still don't agree with you on this. The purpose of the content is to level up your stats, and find all that is available to the party.

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Sorry to burst your bubble on this, but the "purpose" of deep dungeons varies from person to person.

Player A wants to get 99/99 so they can make the PoTD red weapons.
Player B wants to just level all of their classes as fast as they can and, sadly, are playing a DPS class. Meaning PoTD is vastly faster than 30+ min queue times. They prioritize clearing fast over getting loot.
Player C wants to farm the Chests PoTD (and other deep dungeons) offer and so go out of their way to find the hidden drops.

All of these players contradict with each other and no one player has power over the others. If you genuinely want to do a very specific thing in a dungeon then your best bet is to use the Party-Finder and find like-minded players. Not complain that total strangers don't do what you want them to do.

So long as the dungeon gets cleared, there is no rhyme or reason to complain. If you think this is wrong, then you need to look at yourself, rather than others.

Been soloing potd since level 1 0/0 aetherpool 0 regen potion without joining any party/pug at any point and I've never felt like I couldn't get any chest.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Sorry to burst your bubble on this, but the "purpose" of deep dungeons varies from person to person.

Player A wants to get 99/99 so they can make the PoTD red weapons.
Player B wants to just level all of their classes as fast as they can and, sadly, are playing a DPS class. Meaning PoTD is vastly faster than 30+ min queue times. They prioritize clearing fast over getting loot.
Player C wants to farm the Chests PoTD (and other deep dungeons) offer and so go out of their way to find the hidden drops.

All of these players contradict with each other and no one player has power over the others. If you genuinely want to do a very specific thing in a dungeon then your best bet is to use the Party-Finder and find like-minded players. Not complain that total strangers don't do what you want them to do.

So long as the dungeon gets cleared, there is no rhyme or reason to complain. If you think this is wrong, then you need to look at yourself, rather than others.

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Yes, who knew there was such a thing as the diversity of thought corresponding to different player personality types and profiles.

Take responsibility for how you want to play the game. Make your group or create an FC of like-minded individuals.

The Op is a prime example of a person calling others selfish and demanding that they do what they want by forcing the developers to make it happen.

At least HoH lets you find Magicite so picking them on the way is more valuable. PotD could really use some tweaks.

What's the problem? You can solo up to 150 on mch without even breaking a sweat. Tons of silver chests, tons of potsherds. Do that. Expecting the entire group to take detours and slow exp because you didnt level your aetherpool is unreasonable imo

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

This is not accurate at all and I've been running enough POTD for timeworn artifacts recently to know exactly how long runs take. A no chest run of 51-60 takes about 10 minutes. When rooms are unfogged to look for silvers, about 12 or 13 minutes. This is because when the group makes a concerted effort we have multiple people unfogging rooms and it's not necessary to fight anything extra unless it's on the way or the room has a silver.

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Unless the portal is right beside your starting room and one person goes off to Narnia through a string of rooms trying to hunt for a silver that doesn't even exist. Your example is expecting that everyone makes a concerted effort, when that's just not going to happen in many 51-60 runs.
Maybe twice as long isn't accurate but the point is that your rate of acquiring silver chests is the same whether you speed through for exp or hunt in every corner. You'll uncover a good few chests trying to unfog the portal room and it's fine to pick up the ones you see, but there's no point going out of your way for them or demanding your group do so.

I'll agree the system is bad though, for the reason that putting multiple conflicting goals in one instance just creates arguments. It could be improved. But blaming other players for leveling or demanding a minimum time before you're allowed to gain experience is pure nonsense.

Thank the gods you can solo palace of the dead and heaven on high. I would argue to first 50 floors might actually be a bit more difficult than 50-60 because you have every skill you would have rather than the slow build up.

My recommendation just solo the first 10 floors to get your arms up unless you wish to test your mettle. Or attempt 50-60. If you have warrior that one is the probably the most overpowered class to go in as because raw int is bull right now. I would run you through it if I was on your server but I am on primal.

I think you can also set a party finder for aetherpool farm party. I have seen a few of those up recently, which is really nice to see. I like the deep dungeons, seeing them super active is always joyful. There were so many people in quarrymill too, it makes the game feel alive.

Do not forget to attempt booping Quarrymill and those standing about the portal too.

Something most simple umm perhaps; "Looking to farm aetherpool does anyone wish to assist?"

For solo recommend Derk Knight or Warrior for safety if speed is no concern. New Living Dead allows Dark Knight to pull the entire floor solo with minimal risk and welp Warrior is the fifth healer. Mech/Red Mage/Dancer/Bard/Ninja for zooooom zooooom if you wish to solo farm blue chests with speed. Red Mage will have Vercure on floors 51+ should any oopsie poopsie occur (bomb trap mid fight). Dancer also has curing waltz + second wind and peloton. Lower single target damage sure sure but safer. Mech and Bard have reasonable single target burst (especially fricken mech) and reassemble > drill will one shot most stuffs. Less safe but much of the faster. Ninja has silly levels of burst and hide can occasionally allow you to sneak into more difficult rooms for the yoinking of chests.

Just make your own group if you are gonna complain about everything.

As lenneth said, its a consensus.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

So instead of changing the attitudes of players around us, change the dungeon instead? That makes it sound like it's the contents fault people behave the way they do; which is asinine. :(

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Agreed. Typical forum answers here. If you dare take 5 seconds longer you're toxic or something. Fortunately the actual community isn't like that.

The problem is the rewards from the chests are crap and worthless. Too many handouts destroys the economy...

There's a new deep dungeon coming this expansion apparantly and that will be exactly the same as the last 2.

For the first 2 or 3 days everyone will hint down every chest they can for shiny goodies to make some moneys.

Couple of days in though and players will already be get the portal and go. Because the markets boards will be rammed full of all those goodies and the values will have crashed hard.. so getting the chests won't be worth it.

If you want more chests, do more runs. You could potentially do one run where you go to every room to get every chest and push the dungeon time up to 20 minutes or you could do two runs at 10 minutes and grab every chest on the way and you'll probably come out even without annoying everyone else in your party.

There are so many little tricks you can do to get chests quickly without disrupting the flow of the dungeon. Like sprinting to a chest in the first room. Or playing a job with peloton. Or when tanking, dashing into a room before everyone else to pick up all the adds and then quickly grabbing a chest. Or just grabbing chests while you're doing ranged damage. When other players take the wrong turn is the perfect time to grab a few chests, and that happens a lot.

Or using pomanders effectively. I used to think people didn't want to use pomanders because they believed it slowed down the run but I'm pretty convinced a lot of people are just scared to use them. Or using Pomanders of Intuition at the start of the floor instead of the end of a floor to increase your chance of coming across the Accursed Horde and avoiding the possibility that someone will decide to go search for it right before you're about to leave the floor. I love pomanders. They were like the one thing that kept me from getting bored after doing a ton of runs of HoH.

This is weird... I've unintentionally reached +99 for my armor/weapons about three times in HoH to level up my 60s and not once have I had any trouble waiting for people who want chests..

It doesn't matter to me if people wanna Speedrun DD or search for chests, I just kinda do my own thing in there and if someone needs a rez I go and rez em.

Same attitude I have with small pulling tanks or non DPS healers, I do what I do and u do u, long as we complete our duty I don't mind.

A solo run up until floor 100 barely takes more time than if you were grouped with randoms on repetitive 51-60. You'll get better chests, can set your pace and it's still faceroll easy.

This is the main reason why i hate deep dungeons and never got into them. People want to rush through... even when it was brand new. Ive never enjoyed the rush to the end mentality. My slower play-style fails in this type of content. And it gets worse over time and the fast people become more and more efficient and i fall further behind. I never have a chance to get better at the content because i am always rushed through. I can’t even solo because i don't have any power built up from group runs... so i just quit out.

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Originally Posted by Blindheart

This is the main reason why i hate deep dungeons and never got into them. People want to rush through... even when it was brand new. Ive never enjoyed the rush to the end mentality. My slower play-style fails in this type of content. And it gets worse over time and the fast people become more and more efficient and i fall further behind. I never have a chance to get better at the content because i am always rushed through. I can’t even solo because i don't have any power built up from group runs... so i just quit out.

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Soloing isn't predicated on running group runs first. You're absolutely able to run the lowest levels over and over until you max out your weapon/armor then move to the next set of levels.


As you can see, there are people out there that also want to take their time running through. If you random queue into ANYTHING, then your agreeing to play in the generally accepted style; i.e. "rushing" through to completion. If you want to play content in a way that differs from the general consensus of the community, that's what Party Finder is for, or FCs, or different sub-communities.

Haven't really seen anyone rush others when I've run through POTD/HOH through the queueing thing, those that don't want/need the silver chests tend to just go sit by the exit til the other person/people catch up.
Perhaps it's different on data centres but in Chaos DC I have seen people make party finders to suit their goals and have even joined some myself, particularly for those trying to clear 1-50 potd - or some that just want to attempt climb as high as possible.

Eh. I dont really do deep dungeons anymore because I burned myself out on them when I was rushing to 50 on all of my classes back during 3.x, but it has always been "group consensus" when you join PF groups. If you are the only one who wants to get all the chests/kill all the mobs and the others kind of wanna just get in and get out, then maybe you shouldn't have joined that group to begin with or at least asked them before joining it.

The fact that you're trying to put the blame on players who want to speedrun or whatever is pretty selfish to begin with, OP

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

There should be a minimum time requirement spent in each deep dungeon for it to count toward experience (without reason). As well as a boost per stat for each clear of every ten floors. +1 on the floors we have isn't enough if people just demand that you skip all the chests. I think it should be somewhere around +3 and +5. It has taken the fun out of it for anyone who likes the deep dungeon, and wants to earn extra rewards. I.e. weapon glamour.

Usually if you don't like it, they threaten to kick you, and tell you to just solo it, or find a party of people who want to get chests. That's hard to do, or find. :/ You also can't solo that well without finding chests first.

In the same vein that people ruined MSQ, players have ruined deep dungeons for others, and I think it's time the devs do something about it.

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Go for chests anyway as well as the hoard or whatever. If they kick you, report them. You're not breaking any rules, they are. I have reported people in the past just for threatening to kick me during deep dungeons and would e-stalk their twitter by just googling their IGN and would find them complaining about being reported and how supposedly innocent they were.

Jerks, the whole lot of them. Don't tolerate them, don't reply. Silently report and move on. They'll learn it the hard way. You are doing nothing wrong as long as you're not intentionally slowing them down or trying to cause them to fail.

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Originally Posted by Denji

Go for chests anyway and the hoard or whatever. If they kick you, report them. You're not breaking any rules, they are. I have reported people in the past just for threatening to kick me during deep dungeons and would e-stalk their twitter by just googling their IGN and would find them complaining about being reported and how supposedly innocent they were.

Jerks, the whole lot of them. Don't tolerate them, don't reply. Silently report and move on. They'll learn it the hard way. You are doing nothing wrong as long as you're not intentionally slowing them down or trying to cause them to fail.

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Why have you reported people for doing nothing wrong? I didn't realise that asking you to hurry up & making others feel like you are wasting their time is breaking the rules. They don't have to play with you, just as you don't have to play with them.

You want to force others to play the game your way and complain to the GMs whenever they get sick of you. You seem to be a selfish person who calls people selfish for not playing the game how you would like.

When you are in a team environment, it's not about you or what you want. If the team is at the teleport and you're making them feel aggrieved, they have every right to warn you and kick you. Suppose you're not going to bother to talk to them and explain your going for chests to try and come to some understanding but are trying to have their character suspended or banned. In that case, they certainly have every right to kick you as your closest thing to an in-game threat they could come across.

It might be time you post a party finder for like-minded people or start your own FC or convince other people in your FC to help you. On the other hand, if you think many people are jerks, it might just be you.

If you want chests, go with a party focused on them.

DD in MM majority ruled by people leveling.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Unless the portal is right beside your starting room and one person goes off to Narnia through a string of rooms trying to hunt for a silver that doesn't even exist. Your example is expecting that everyone makes a concerted effort, when that's just not going to happen in many 51-60 runs.
Maybe twice as long isn't accurate but the point is that your rate of acquiring silver chests is the same whether you speed through for exp or hunt in every corner. You'll uncover a good few chests trying to unfog the portal room and it's fine to pick up the ones you see, but there's no point going out of your way for them or demanding your group do so.

I'll agree the system is bad though, for the reason that putting multiple conflicting goals in one instance just creates arguments. It could be improved. But blaming other players for leveling or demanding a minimum time before you're allowed to gain experience is pure nonsense.

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I ran it for 8 hours on Saturday and nobody had an issue when someone replied to me my question about wanting to clear for silvers. We often split up so we could quickly peek into rooms. The only time you might see parties hesitate (at least on my DC) is if we've gone through a couple rooms and there are still more and we don't have a pomander to reveal the map. That one random map room here and there on a big map we'll choose to ignore. But it's really not any time spent to just peek and run off if nothing is there. Even if something attacks because it's close to the door, can just drag it to the portal. Saying something is going to take twice the time is going to turn people off trying and make them resentful of those who do. But saying it's just a couple extra minutes and most are okay with it.

I don't agree with the minimum time but I think players who use POTD for the secondary intention of leveling instead of the original main intention of getting the exclusive rewards don't keep in mind those who want to do the content for those exclusive rewards. Now, I think this is something the devs need to fix. The best fix will probably be to increase the boost from a single chest and make every chest a guaranteed skill up. Then someone needing stat boosts could still gain progress on super speed runs and would gain significant progress when they can search out and acquire more. POTD (and HoH but let's be real, who really wants those) has been out long enough that there's little reason they can't make those weapons easier to acquire.

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Originally Posted by Voidedge_Ragna

Would the content be more enticing or would there be more content if we rp walked through the same expert dungeon every day? Or if we did that in potd? looking at the walls and backgrounds? You do that once and then your like ... "okay i did that".

Forcing the player into things they have to potentially run 100s of times can only end in them choosing the path of least resistance and max out effort and value vs time.

This is such a non issue, running 50-60 gives you plenty buffs to your weapon/armor to get all glamour weapons. The only possible way you can run into a problem with this is if you wanted to do a necromancer run and you never did a 200 run before, and how many players would even attempt that?

You will eventually have 70/70 from just spamming 50-60 which even if you wanted to do a 200 run with a static is plenty as you will be 99/99 by the time you need to be.

This happened before on a larger scale in DR in which the players started to filter out those who were not willing to put effort in to get the duty done fast and the result was runs that took 12-15min in pre mades and those that took 40-50min in df.

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Never said people have to rp walk through content. And please dont be disingenuous as claim you're "forced" into doing content. No one is forcing you to do anything. Choice or not speed or bust is the common mentality with xiv.
Need proof? Go and find threads about tanks and their pulling. Or maybe the fact most players were running Bozja for leveling in EW due to it being the fastest way to level in game atm. The dev team opted to boost exp from dungeons.
It's honesty refreshing to see stuff like all healer or all tank Agalia run (may have said that wrong don't @ me). But in the grand scheme im willing to bet Criterion Dungeons and the new Deep Dungeon will end up speed fests like everything else

I'm all for taking the time to get chests and what not until the moment you no longer get levels for mobs. From 50 on up you probably should have a good enough weapon level to just progress through the level because beating the boss at the end will always net you some anyway. Most people are blowing through them to level other classes easily.

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Originally Posted by Denji

Go for chests anyway as well as the hoard or whatever. If they kick you, report them. You're not breaking any rules, they are. I have reported people in the past just for threatening to kick me during deep dungeons and would e-stalk their twitter by just googling their IGN and would find them complaining about being reported and how supposedly innocent they were.

Jerks, the whole lot of them. Don't tolerate them, don't reply. Silently report and move on. They'll learn it the hard way. You are doing nothing wrong as long as you're not intentionally slowing them down or trying to cause them to fail.

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NGL, when the group doesn't go after the chests and you are, you are *literally* slowing them down.... Also the reporting of them because they want to remove you from the party because they dont want to get the chests and you're slowing down a run chasing after chests is kinda.....an abuse of the system.

Random parties are going to be random. If majority want to do X all you can do is adapt or make your own party, FFXIV is an MMO after all and POTD just require 3 other players of whatever class so should be easy.

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Originally Posted by Denji

Go for chests anyway as well as the hoard or whatever. If they kick you, report them. You're not breaking any rules, they are. I have reported people in the past just for threatening to kick me during deep dungeons and would e-stalk their twitter by just googling their IGN and would find them complaining about being reported and how supposedly innocent they were.

Jerks, the whole lot of them. Don't tolerate them, don't reply. Silently report and move on. They'll learn it the hard way. You are doing nothing wrong as long as you're not intentionally slowing them down or trying to cause them to fail.

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Lol fearmongering. They are 100% allowed to kick you for difference of playstyle if they are wanting to continue and you decide to wander the whole map while they are at the exit..Also reporting for no reason isnt going to go well for people so I suggest they dont.

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Originally Posted by Nyxs

Lol fearmongering. They are 100% allowed to kick you for difference of playstyle if they are wanting to continue and you decide to wander the whole map while they are at the exit..Also reporting for no reason isnt going to go well for people so I suggest they dont.

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I uh... wouldn't be so sure of that. They've been cracking down pretty hard on people for "abusing" the kick function as of late. Apparently kicking people for underperforming and/or not sticking with the group can now be considered abuse. Do it if you want, but don't be surprised if you end up gaoled after doing it one too many times.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Never said people have to rp walk through content. And please dont be disingenuous as claim you're "forced" into doing content. No one is forcing you to do anything.

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So you are saying I don't need my tome gear for doing content? So if want to do endgame like extremes or savage, I'm not forced into the treadmill of tomes? Because we all are the type of hardcore raiders that clear the entire raid tier in crafted gear and even if, then your pushed into something to making the money for said gear.

If you want to participate in endgame you are indeed forced to take a path that has 2-3 possible routes or you wait half a year to do the 24 man raid to gear up ... that or you simply say "I don't mind being lower ilv then the rest, their gear will make up for mine" who are they to tell you.

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Originally Posted by Nyxs

Lol fearmongering. They are 100% allowed to kick you for difference of playstyle if they are wanting to continue and you decide to wander the whole map while they are at the exit..Also reporting for no reason isnt going to go well for people so I suggest they dont.

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Don't ruin their made-up incredibly mentally unstable story!

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

I uh... wouldn't be so sure of that. They've been cracking down pretty hard on people for "abusing" the kick function as of late. Apparently kicking people for underperforming and/or not sticking with the group can now be considered abuse. Do it if you want, but don't be surprised if you end up gaoled after doing it one too many times.

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I would ask for proof and specifics of the event that makes you say this. It's extremely unlikely that any instance of kicking, unless you have a mostly full party of FC mates that decide to kick someone, will be noted as being abuse. If you have 4 strangers together and 2 of them agree one has to go, there's a fairly low chance that it's being abused. I feel like if what you're saying is happening that it's more so based on conversation that happens before the kick.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

I uh... wouldn't be so sure of that. They've been cracking down pretty hard on people for "abusing" the kick function as of late. Apparently kicking people for underperforming and/or not sticking with the group can now be considered abuse. Do it if you want, but don't be surprised if you end up gaoled after doing it too many times.

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There is nothing in the ToS stating that a GM can force you to play with people who aren't doing their part. The GMs cannot force you to play with others, especially when it's the majority decision. If that were the case, it would be the GMs abusing their power and could be considered actual harassment from a Square Enix Employee.