Rescue Needs to GO

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I have never seen it used effectively, ever. All I've ever seen is it being used to troll, harass, and kill other players by healers that think it's a fun joke to pull a random player into a one shot mechanic or a pit.
Knockback attacks have nothing to do with this, it's not another player dictating where you are with little to no input from you. If some healer wants to pull me from the other side of Hell's Keir I just die, nothing I can do unless I manage to hit arm's length fast enough. If they're going to keep it they need to at the very least allow an opt out feature so you can't be moved by people who aren't on your friends list. I'm sick of getting pulled into one shots and having to sit on the ground while the healer has a chuckle and eventually decides to res me.

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Uh... no. As said before: if recuse gets an opt-out feature it may as well be removed.

Further just because YOU have never seen it used effectively doesn't mean several others have not.

I've used it in Wiping City to save people from being one-shotted on the spider boss.
I've used it to move a new player out of a one shot mechanic.
I've used it to allow my DRG to greed TWICE in Sycrus tower.
I've been yanked over to a safe spot by my healer when I was confused on my directions
And I've also been the DPS who was 100% fine and greeding but my healer didn't know and pulled me early.

Rescue is fine. If it needs ANYTHING it needs a reduction in lag so we can time it better.

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Originally Posted by QooEr

the actual pro gamer ultra chads come up with rescue uptime strats like with e5s pillars so not really.

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I meant that everyone thinks they know better than the healer, whether they actually do or not.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

Uh... no. As said before: if recuse gets an opt-out feature it may as well be removed.

Further just because YOU have never seen it used effectively doesn't mean several others have not.

I've used it in Wiping City to save people from being one-shotted on the spider boss.
I've used it to move a new player out of a one shot mechanic.
I've used it to allow my DRG to greed TWICE in Sycrus tower.
I've been yanked over to a safe spot by my healer when I was confused on my directions
And I've also been the DPS who was 100% fine and greeding but my healer didn't know and pulled me early.

Rescue is fine. If it needs ANYTHING it needs a reduction in lag so we can time it better.

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How does that do anything to prevent the abuse that happens from the skill?

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

How does that do anything to prevent the abuse that happens from the skill?

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I'll take complaints about Rescue after there's a system in place to prevent DPS "abusing" the party by being bad at their jobs and failing DPS checks. Because there isn't any, and that has a higher wipe rate than a bad Rescue.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I meant that everyone thinks they know better than the healer, whether they actually do or not.

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everyone thinks they know better than anyone else. if they want to opt out of rescue and die to greed, i say let them. its not My dps, except for that 1 rez gcd i guess.

in my experience raiding with, you know, actual competent people, rescue is very appreciated.

-1!

How else am i supposed to drag a stubborn tank to the 2nd pack of mobs? or silly ranged into my asylum/sacred soil?

ppl to their death that annoy the hell out of me?

People are really out here treating occasional screw ups like they're catastrophic game issues. Our community really needs to wake up and remember that this is a video game, and in video games, you fail sometimes. It's natural. It's not a problem that needs to be fixed. People make mistakes in video games! News at 11.

You aren't a very "experienced" healer if you don't run pug content and constantly see places where Rescue would be useful. If you never touch the button you have definitely missed opportunities to be better at your job. It requires enough foresight to be in the right place for a mechanic and also identify someone else who is not and cannot move to the correct position in time. You have to be aware of how far skills like Elusive Jump on DRG go to know they are greeding with the option to be safe. Rescue is wonderful. I have saved people from being tossed off Leviathan, Titan, Diamond Weapon, Sophia, and even from death in the occasional dungeon battle where push mechanics are used. I've cancelled animation lock for LB3 to move DPS out of unavoidable aoes and dragged my conhealer to safety more times than I can count. The skill is a godsend but it takes practice. Just let people practice and report anyone who you think is being malicious. It's not the end of the world.

Ironically I just had a scenario tonight with our static tank in EX3 getting a bad knockback and rescue saved him from getting hit by a line attack lol. Rescue is a great skill.

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Originally Posted by justice40

The idea that you should have ANY control over another persons character needs to go away. There should be a way for us to turn it off so that healers can not pull us at any point. We should know the dungeon well enough or know enough to get out of the way. But (and I know what they will say "I pulled you to save you from the AOE") No...You pulled me to my death, you interrupted my series of abilities, you turned the creature right towards the party and most of all....brought the aggro.....right towards everyone. So do us all a favor. And for those of you that are using rescue as a "get even" tool. It is a highly reportable offense and people's accounts have been suspended over it. Remember. If you can pull a character than why can't tanks turn off stance.

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You had a bad experience, so have we all,

Go home Karen

Love this skill, As a healer and being saved by it. But to the OP if you didn't communicate then its on you. This game has an amazing feature called group chat, most healers are going to respect your wishes.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I have never seen it used effectively, ever. All I've ever seen is it being used to troll, harass, and kill other players by healers that think it's a fun joke to pull a random player into a one shot mechanic or a pit.
Knockback attacks have nothing to do with this, it's not another player dictating where you are with little to no input from you. If some healer wants to pull me from the other side of Hell's Keir I just die, nothing I can do unless I manage to hit arm's length fast enough. If they're going to keep it they need to at the very least allow an opt out feature so you can't be moved by people who aren't on your friends list. I'm sick of getting pulled into one shots and having to sit on the ground while the healer has a chuckle and eventually decides to res me.

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Maybe its the server your on? I never see this type of behavior.

Personal thought is rescue should be an instant Teleport to the caster. No dragging, no lag, no bs, just bam. That will slightly lower the skill cap and stop people from dying if applied properly.

No not sure if this is a joke or not, but I appreciate it when I am new to a dungeon and the healer uses rescue.

I generally don't like using rescue unless it's part of an agreed upon strat, but I'd rather have it in my back pocket than not for when it can actually save people. Utility is pretty much dead in this game as they've reduced the vector we can interact with content to "do more damage" and "take less damage", so stuff like rescue and expedient which don't interact on that axis are sorely needed.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

I can imagine that if rescue would for example also apply a strong heal and armor, that it would already become a lot more powerful even in teams that dont make a mistake, but at the same time, this also would cause this to just become another heal, and not be the life saver it should be). Even if it could prevent a wipe mechanic from killing such player, the point still stands, in good teams they will generaly dodge those mechanics, so there is no point into not using it. Any buff that would apply such benefit means its going to be used for that benefit. This means rescue has to remain weak here.

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You may have enjoyed the Swtor "rescue". Maahhh that skill was fricken amazing!

It worked both vertically and horizontally allowing healer to pull someone up over stuffs or could be used to skip entire sections of Flashpoints (dungeons).

Force pull activated instantly to pull the target with no delay too. Also applied mitigation buff while reducing the target Enmity making it amazing for moments when deeps were generating too much threat or tank not enough threat. Kinda worked like Portal physics so if you were jumping or moving you would apply your movement speed to the target increasing the yeet range on Force Pull.

Soooo sooooo very satisfying to use Sorcerer telewarp skill into sprint + jump + rescue to yeet the target into safe zone from behind objects. By the twelve there was entire puzzle you were able to circumvent to give players free Fleet Datacron access. Requires eight people to solve? No problemo! I can be in multiple places at once then pull everyone around to the Datacron (kinda like sight seeing points but they give stat buffs).

FF14 needs more unique ways to support party like Rescue but am worried because they have huuuge tendency to listen to players like this and acquiesce. Please.. the power to use old Fluid aura to yeet mobs seemed like such cool concept. More stuffs like this.

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Originally Posted by MiaShino

You may have enjoyed the Swtor "rescue". Maahhh that skill was fricken amazing!

It worked both vertically and horizontally allowing healer to pull someone up over stuffs or could be used to skip entire sections of Flashpoints (dungeons).

Force pull activated instantly to pull the target with no delay too. Also applied mitigation buff while reducing the target Enmity making it amazing for moments when deeps were generating too much threat or tank not enough threat. Kinda worked like Portal physics so if you were jumping or moving you would apply your movement speed to the target increasing the yeet range on Force Pull.

Soooo sooooo very satisfying to use Sorcerer telewarp skill into sprint + jump + rescue to yeet the target into safe zone from behind objects. By the twelve there was entire puzzle you were able to circumvent to give players free Fleet Datacron access. Requires eight people to solve? No problemo! I can be in multiple places at once then pull everyone around to the Datacron (kinda like sight seeing points but they give stat buffs).

FF14 needs more unique ways to support party like Rescue but am worried because they have huuuge tendency to listen to players like this and acquiesce. Please.. the power to use old Fluid aura to yeet mobs seemed like such cool concept. More stuffs like this.

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The best part about Sorc's Extricate (SWTOR Rescue) was that you could ping-pong people in mid-air between sorcs which made for some interesting niche strats, as well as just good fun.
Main use I found for it was holocron hunting on the Imperial Fleet. With 3 sorcs pre-positioned, you could drag people up to the ledge that usually requires a long drawn out puzzle with the grapple guns. Not even a grapple gun required to get dragged - I got my whole guild that holocron in a single night. Good times. I also used that skill to pull so many people to their deaths outside Dread Fortress/Dread palace, I would've put dictators to shame.

But yes, Rescue needs to stay. It's good useful an ability to get rid of speaking as someone who's been on both ends of it - I've been the dumbass DPS who got greedy and then saved by a healer who was on point and I've been the healer pulling sprouts, newbies and/or greedy players to safe areas because there wasn't enough time to say "Don't stand in poo" to them. And even though we're not *really* supposed to, I've used it to give tanks the not-so-subtle hint that we can both handle bigger pulls. I'd also like to see more skills like Manashift and Protect come back, but that's another story entirely.

A typical good use of Rescue : you're a good healer with good knowledge of the encounter and you can see where your mates should be. You spot someone who seems lost (especially true in PF with no comms), go at their spot, and pull them where they should be. Probably one of the last feel good moves of being a healer.

Don’t stand in avoidable attacks that will one-shot you and I won’t have to Rescue you from them.

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Originally Posted by lbr

I generally don't like using rescue unless it's part of an agreed upon strat.

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Rescue is usualy needed when the strat of a player is causing him to get into problems. With decent players you wont need to use it in most of the cases. Sure, randomness can sometimes cause issues because mechanics allow a combo to be made, but even here most decent players can still manage to get boss attention away and avoid this combo. Rescue is realy a tool to negate a mistake. And no matter how good the player, everyone will eventualy make a mistake. And if its a big one (you can have a bad day), rescue will do its job.

But thats why you dont need a strat to use it, its to ensure your teammate can continue in case of a mistake. Even without strat, a life saver is always welcome.

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Originally Posted by MiaShino

You may have enjoyed the Swtor "rescue". Maahhh that skill was fricken amazing!

It worked both vertically and horizontally allowing healer to pull someone up over stuffs or could be used to skip entire sections of Flashpoints (dungeons).

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I never played it, but im aware that in some games certain mechanics can sometimes be taken to the extreme. AGDQ does often show such things.

But note that in an MMO, even small exploits can often break balance as some players will make this the standard. And that sadly has to be avoided for most content. Luckily as far as i know FF doesnt have existing issues with rescue anyway. Which does enable rescue to be stronger (and create less extreme methods of exploiting it to get an advantage). Its just doesn to the method it can be done, anything involving DPS however is generaly a bad idea, yet at the same time, dps is normaly a reward for good plays.

The hots example i ment made a player unstoppable (clears any CC on the player) and was also an instant cast. I can imagine that removing all CC (mass esuna) could make it more powerful and get players to use it more often on beginner levels since its then not just for pulling out of AoE's. But even then, its only a mitigation tool in case of a player making a mistake. Although a player might take this deliberately in a well organized team, which makes it a risk/reward thing that in well organized teams must be used. But then again, when going for the hardest trials... i think this is acceptable. Those trials already require excelent knowledge and can be this punishing. If such 'exploit' can be used there, i think it would be a succesful upgrade. In the end, players will have the practice of the tool well ahead of time.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

Even without strat, a life saver is always welcome.

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It's not always welcome, just like advice isn't always welcome when provided. Given the nature of it you can often do more harm than good, not to mention the people who use it to troll or cause problems. Even if it doesn't resolve in a death it's not always welcome to have someone yank your character away and put it somewhere else with no input or ability to counter from you.

Give us a way to disable it being used on us in settings or only by friends and it'll solve a lot of issues. You don't need to have it so you can yank random players around for fun.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It's not always welcome, just like advice isn't always welcome when provided. Given the nature of it you can often do more harm than good, not to mention the people who use it to troll or cause problems. Even if it doesn't resolve in a death it's not always welcome to have someone yank your character away and put it somewhere else with no input or ability to counter from you.

Give us a way to disable it being used on us in settings or only by friends and it'll solve a lot of issues. You don't need to have it so you can yank random players around for fun.

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Wait, are you telling me that in a video game, people can make mistakes? How dare they!

I admit I killed people with it... they can get away from AOE mechanic efficiently with well placed Elusive Jump / Hissatsu: Yaten / Aetherial Manipulation etc.
My intention was helping them but I ended up killing them, I removed it from skill bar :3

That's why I only reserve Rescue for "...you're not going to move, are you?" moments, like Amon, King Behemoth, etc. The idea of the target becoming immune while being dragged does sound nice though

I don't understand why it isn't instant. I don't understand why it isn't a teleport. I fail to see how either of these things would result in anything other than rescue becoming infinitely more user friendly and massively drop the number of posts about "OMG A HAELRE KILED ME BI USING RESKU, REMOVE NAO!!11!!!" Right now a lot of the time its a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation where someone is sitting in the bad and has made no moves to move out of it but still theoretically might move out of it. You now have the awkward moment where you think "do I rescue them to try to save them or do I hope they are actually paying attention and will get out of their own accord?" If you do cast rescue and they teleported away on their own, you might drag them back into the AoE. On the other hand if you wait till the last moment to make absolutely sure they are having a brainfade, then they die anyway because of the cast time. Why not make it an instant cast, teleport? The reason I also say teleport is because someone is standing ever so slightly downhill from you and you rescue them and...they go nowhere. It also means that if you do decide to rescue someone at the same time that they extricate themselves from a situation they still end in a safe spot rather than being dragged back through potentially lethal dangers. I also do not understand people complaining about trolling with rescue. If a healer wants to troll anyone but MT they can just stop healing you. They could accidentally on purpose run into AoEs themselves. You're never going to stop people from trolling by removing rescue. On my WAR I can just Shirk a DPS mid fight and turn off stance, should we remove tank stances and Shirk? wait a moment, I'VE GOT IT. What we'll do is make FFXIV a single player game and then you won't ever be trolled or harrassed by other players ever again...

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Originally Posted by Haadrak

I don't understand why it isn't instant. I don't understand why it isn't a teleport. I fail to see how either of these things would result in anything other than rescue becoming infinitely more user friendly and massively drop the number of posts about "OMG A HAELRE KILED ME BI USING RESKU, REMOVE NAO!!11!!!" Right now a lot of the time its a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation where someone is sitting in the bad and has made no moves to move out of it but still theoretically might move out of it. You now have the awkward moment where you think "do I rescue them to try to save them or do I hope they are actually paying attention and will get out of their own accord?" If you do cast rescue and they teleported away on their own, you might drag them back into the AoE. On the other hand if you wait till the last moment to make absolutely sure they are having a brainfade, then they die anyway because of the cast time. Why not make it an instant cast, teleport? The reason I also say teleport is because someone is standing ever so slightly downhill from you and you rescue them and...they go nowhere. It also means that if you do decide to rescue someone at the same time that they extricate themselves from a situation they still end in a safe spot rather than being dragged back through potentially lethal dangers. I also do not understand people complaining about trolling with rescue. If a healer wants to troll anyone but MT they can just stop healing you. They could accidentally on purpose run into AoEs themselves. You're never going to stop people from trolling by removing rescue. On my WAR I can just Shirk a DPS mid fight and turn off stance, should we remove tank stances and Shirk? wait a moment, I'VE GOT IT. What we'll do is make FFXIV a single player game and then you won't ever be trolled or harrassed by other players ever again...

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Then don't rescue them at all, a single player dying isn't going to cause a wipe outside of Savage or certain Extreme fights. You don't need to be able to micromanage other players, they aren't there for you to boss around or place however you feel like they should stand.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Then don't rescue them at all, a single player dying isn't going to cause a wipe outside of Savage or certain Extreme fights. You don't need to be able to micromanage other players, they aren't there for you to boss around or place however you feel like they should stand.

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Healer’s job is to keep people alive first. Micromanagement is an inherent part of the role due to the focus on multiple resources. You just don’t like it when it applies to more than your HP bar. Sometimes putting someone in the right spot does that for less cost than a res. Most times that mana matters.

I’ve saved more runs stopping a bad DPS from taking the stack marker away from the party and negating knockbacks than I can count. I’ve troll rescued four times total. All of them were DPS who instapulled as the main tank was typing out mechanics for the group.

I've had great healers using rescue on me more often than I get people trolling. I think a mark of an experienced healer is how successful they are when using Rescue.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

I’ve troll rescued

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I see now why you're so determined for it to stay in the game and not have the ability for people to say no to it or not be pulled if they don't want to be.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I see now why you're so determined for it to stay in the game and not have the ability for people to say no to it or not be pulled if they don't want to be.

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The reason why people want it to stay in the game has less to do with trolling people and more because its one of the few tools healers have that actually takes thought to use.

And yes, before you type up an AsKsuALLY it does take some skill to use Rescue properly. It LAGS. I even said in my post it does. Time it wrong the idiot who stood in red is still going to get hit.

I've already given you examples how Rescue can be used as is intended. We already explained why it CANNOT have an opt out. And no one wants ANOTHER tool from healers to be removed because of X reason.

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Originally Posted by justice40

The idea that you should have ANY control over another persons character needs to go away. There should be a way for us to turn it off so that healers can not pull us at any point. We should know the dungeon well enough or know enough to get out of the way. But (and I know what they will say "I pulled you to save you from the AOE") No...You pulled me to my death, you interrupted my series of abilities, you turned the creature right towards the party and most of all....brought the aggro.....right towards everyone. So do us all a favor. And for those of you that are using rescue as a "get even" tool. It is a highly reportable offense and people's accounts have been suspended over it. Remember. If you can pull a character than why can't tanks turn off stance.

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Can't tell if it's a troll post or not but in the case it isn't, I'm gonna vote for no. And I only recently played healer too. I'm normally a melee dps so I know when to greed and where to stand...when I know the fight. Yes, it gets annoying if you get pulled by a rescue but honestly, even before I played healer, I understand its uses. What I don't understand is why there is a lag between the cast and the pull which is what has killed so many people I'm assuming. But when it's needed, it's usually by the jobs that wants to greed and have no backstep skill or, specially in the case of alliance raids where I found more uses for it, when people can be woefully unaware of their own doom from either lack of knowledge of the fight or expect not to die from a mechanic. Also, Rescue is at 30y range, farther than backsteps and other dashes (iirc the closes is sage and blm movement skills which are 25y but they don't really usually require rescue) so it still has more uses than you think. I read through some of the comments and honestly, I didn't even realize you can rescue a body to rez - might try that at some point.

But yeah, long story short, let's just keep Rescue, make it instacast and pull and maybe put some defensive buff on it, maybe less people would die mid-pull that way.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

The reason why people want it to stay in the game has less to do with trolling people and more because its one of the few tools healers have that actually takes thought to use.

And yes, before you type up an AsKsuALLY it does take some skill to use Rescue properly. It LAGS. I even said in my post it does. Time it wrong the idiot who stood in red is still going to get hit.

I've already given you examples how Rescue can be used as is intended. We already explained why it CANNOT have an opt out. And no one wants ANOTHER tool from healers to be removed because of X reason.

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It absolutely can have an opt out, if everyone would opt out of being moved by a random healer if it were offered, doesn't that say something about the skill? That it's really not needed or fun except for the person who's using it?
It's not fun to have control taken away from you, especially when it's taken away by another player and the decision is made entirely by someone else with no input by yourself.
If you were to have a toggle it would still let you use it in premade groups if you wanted to for that value, that would still be there. You just wouldn't be able to decide and micromanage where other people can stand.

And it's not like it even matters if someone messes up and dies, that's part of the game, that's how you learn to play. Besides the fact that everyone stands in mechanics and dies a few times learning, nothing in the game outside of Extreme and Savage content actually punishes the entire group for one player failing, all it does is kill the player who failed the mechanic. the level of micromanaging and trying to boss other players around just seems entirely unneeded. Let them play their own characters man, you don't have to be a control freak and make them do exactly what you want.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I see now why you're so determined for it to stay in the game and not have the ability for people to say no to it or not be pulled if they don't want to be.

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Yeah, I too want to clear fights and not have to pry your corpse off the floor.

You're mad because we're right. If you want to get the skill gone, be the change you want to see in the world and start Troll Rescuing people on cooldown. You'll see who gets removed first.

In the meantime, I'll be using Shukuchi and Shadeshift to prevent my greedy ass from wiping my static's last week of reclears while getting rescued out of LB3 every single fight. Because unlike you, I am capable of recognizing who's fallible when shit hits the fan, and appreciating the humor and effort of those who fix it.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I see now why you're so determined for it to stay in the game and not have the ability for people to say no to it or not be pulled if they don't want to be.

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But how come I don't get a say in whether or not we wipe due to your mess up?

You only rescue sprouts or players in savage/ultimate levels. Anything in between usually results in drama. People dont like downtime smh.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Yeah, I too want to clear fights and not have to pry your corpse off the floor.

You're mad because we're right. If you want to get the skill gone, be the change you want to see in the world and start Troll Rescuing people on cooldown. You'll see who gets removed first.

In the meantime, I'll be using Shukuchi and Shadeshift to prevent my greedy ass from wiping my static's last week of reclears while getting rescued out of LB3 every single fight. Because unlike you, I am capable of recognizing who's fallible when shit hits the fan, and appreciating the humor and effort of those who fix it.

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I still stand by my points that it does more harm than good when allowed to be used to troll random players for a laugh. A toggle to allow it to only be used on you by your friends or FC members would be greatly appreciated and I hope the devs add something similar. Other games such as Dota 2 have added "disable help" options to let players decide if they want to open themselves up to players using abilities that may take control from them and open themselves up to abuse.
I think it's a great idea personally and it doesn't really have a downside in my opinion. You can still do your strats with your static, and I don't have to be pulled into the Ancient Flare cast in Labyrinth by someone who saw a video and thinks it's funny.

There's absolutely no downside unless you really want to troll other people with it or are concerned with controlling other players' characters in casual content.
If people are turning it off because they don't want to be rescued then that really speaks volumes about the skill and what people want from it.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

But how come I don't get a say in whether or not we wipe due to your mess up?

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Content outside of Extremes, Savage, and Ultimates don't result in a wipe if one player fails. At the worst one player dies, and there's no enrage to risk not making either.

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Originally Posted by Lieri

You only rescue sprouts or players in savage/ultimate levels. Anything in between usually results in drama. People dont like downtime smh.

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I actually never get to Rescue in Savage. What causes deaths in Savage is never stack mechanics, but specific positioning where someone needs to be somewhere that I can't be. Rescuing them to my side does not help resolve the mechanic. What good does Rescue do me in P2S limit cut or overflow? P3S FoF? Nados? P4S Act II? Act IV?

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

We already explained why it CANNOT have an opt out.

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https://youtu.be/Sv95nBi7ulQ?t=74

An opt out punishes the target for a bad play but it was their choice to misuse it.

I have only had one bad rescue happen to me, the rest have been fortunate and kept me from K.O.