Maybe we should not have new jobs in 7.0

Everyone in this thread right now : "really, i am fine with not getting new jobs at the next expansion !".

What everyone will be if this is a thing in the future : "Uh, you are cutting new content AGAIN ? With all the money you are making ?" XD

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Originally Posted by Garet

But they already said they see the challenge of creating more jobs that will be unique since we have so many already and that in the future the most they can do is 1 job per expansion.

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I could be remembering it wrong but in a recent interview, Yoshi P said, at least for DPS, it was easier for the team to design a whole new job from scratch (RPR) then rebalancing and adding to the pre-existing ones.

I think eventually there will be too many jobs in the game to balance and make weapons for. Maybe not next expansion, but I can see soon there only being one job per expansion or none, in lieu of a new feature altogether. I think they should work on reworking jobs to make them feel fresher, for example samurai right now is in a really cluttered state in my opinion and should be reworked.



I think a cool idea would be having job "awakenings" like, they use the same weapon but there is a split tree or specialization where their playstyle and skills change to fit a new theme. And you could choose to play this new specialization or the job like it was before, both would be viable.

I don't want new jobs, I'm completely fine with the options we have.
I think a 4th healer was necessary for balance but as much as enjoyed Reaper from the short time I played it, we could've easily done without a new melee.
But with AST Sects it was only a matter of time until they'd realize that it's a nightmare to balance. They tried and failed for 6 years, adding a 4th healer that falls into one category while permanently making AST into the other one was the best solution, personal feelings aside.
The phys ranged we got with ShB filled a nice niche as a single target supporter, casters already offer great options. GNB was a nice addition for a straightforward but busy tank.
I think we have all we need.
Not all we could have but all we need so each role offers enough choices depending on gameplay and class fantasy preferences and that is an ideal point for me to stop making new classes.

I'd prefer if the resources they don't need for thnking up and designing new classes will instead go into polishing existing classes. Dealing with button bloat, coming up with more creative ways to expand classes beyond "2 upgrades and one trait", adding synergies. They did a fantastic job with BLM: the addition of High Fire/ High Blizzard isn't just an upgrade, it's something that signifcantly changes the aoe rotation, Paradox is an addition that actually changes ST gameplay a fair bit aswell.
And I'm convinced they can come up with more ideas, they are creative. But they also have limited resources and I'd prefer to see these resources spend on polishing rather than throwing out watered down new shinies for the sake of more shinies. We already have so many choices and most people don't play more than 1-2 except to level them (if even that) or occasionaly cheese queue times.

I'm fine with it if they add more depth to the current ones like SMN

As long as the game remains profitable and they keep churning out expansions, they will probably continue to make new jobs since they are a major selling point.

As far as I'm concerned, even if they did decide to not release new jobs next expansion, that doesn't necessarily mean they would issues with certain jobs and or roles. And if they do address these issues, that doesn't mean they'll do it in a way that is satisfactory or practical.

As long as new shiny DPS jobs hype up an expansion, they'll at the very minimum add a new job.

They could go without them of course but I think that having more choices is something they like doing especially with a large causal audience.

Perhaps they'll just add dps jobs since those seem to be easy for them to add.

And going without adding new jobs won't suddenly fix the job balance or issues they currently face.

Adding jobs or no, the dev team is just out of creative juice to think out the box and it's showing. Deleting the workload of adding a new job would probably end up not changing anything.

Remember that they said that every patch would bring only one new dungeons? Besides the nicer designed dungeons, it doesnt really feel like they used the freed up to give us anything new. Same with new deep dungeons being cut with nothing to really show..

I wonder if they would take existing jobs and either make an additional job on top of it (similar to class > job) so conjurer> white mage> geomancer for example. Something maybe for past level 99. They should also get rid of inventory job stones to free up space if they do this.

I disagree.

We need another ranged physical dps.

Personally, I'd be fine with no jobs next expansion if it meant other areas in the game would be worked on
Objectively though...if you don't have something that can generate marketing hype like jobs can, you should stay on the safe side and develop at least 1 job.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

As far as I'm concerned, even if they did decide to not release new jobs next expansion, that doesn't necessarily mean they would issues with certain jobs and or roles. And if they do address these issues, that doesn't mean they'll do it in a way that is satisfactory or practical.

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Not designing new content is never a guarantee that they'll use these resources for current content instead. Nor is designing new content a guarantee that it will be well-received. It's a two-way street.
However their resources are limited. That's a simple fact. And it's infinitely harder to design new classes and looking at current classes with those limited resources than focusing on one over the other.
There's never a guarantee that you'll like what they do but if that is the reason for not wanting them to do something, they might aswell do nothing.

I would prefer 7.0 be a new engine graphics overhaul with minimal new content, but that that opinions tends to upset people. They want content and a new engine.

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

Everyone in this thread right now : "really, i am fine with not getting new jobs at the next expansion !".

What everyone will be if this is a thing in the future : "Uh, you are cutting new content AGAIN ? With all the money you are making ?" XD

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That was my first thought when I read the first reply of "being fine" with it.

"I'm fine with no new jobs so they can focus on improving the existing ones"

Ummm where did I hear that before...?

"I'm fine with 1 dungeon per patch if that means they can make better and varied content" didn't exactly pay off.

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Originally Posted by justinhuang

As we moving forward with 7.0, we can mostly agree that there are plenty of jobs that feel bloat and clunky to some degree. I would suggest that we should not have any new jobs coming next expansion. Or at least just one.

The new MNK and SMN feels amazing. Each button you press just make sense and the flow around situation really well. For example, SMN can swap around their pets summon to fit what best for them. The consolidation of button allow it to not feel so bloat. To some degree, this is just like BLM too. To that, the priority system in rotation feels really good. I feel like I am in control.

Yes, having new jobs will hype the expansion. However, we are at 19 jobs now. At this point, I hope it's early enough to convince that a rework for old jobs are just as exciting, and just as cool, as having a new one.

With that said, thank you again to dev of ffxiv. They work really hard to get us this far and I am so looking forward for more.

Please be mindful and kind to one another when sharing opinions.

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You do realize that some people are looking forward to new jobs in new expansions, some want new races, and some look for new abilities cause they like new powers. Not to be rude but when new expansions don't have anything it starts to turn the game stale and old. Last thing I want for FFXIV is it getting old, boring, and stale like World of Warcraft cause the devs are too lazy and literally keep, almost the same abilities for 2 expansions in a row.

We should have only 1 new job. Only one, so it's easier for them to manage, and gives dev time for them to rework jobs that need it...like DRK and SCH.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

I wonder if they would take existing jobs and either make an additional job on top of it (similar to class > job) so conjurer> white mage> geomancer for example. Something maybe for past level 99. They should also get rid of inventory job stones to free up space if they do this.

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I do think that might be a neat way to go, potentially.

Get a new job and hit 99 in 7.0, then for 8.0 we get additional options. Gaining 10 levels of Geomancer, Chemist, Seer or Onmyoji that you can add on to any healer job base for example.

Personally, I'd actually be okay with 7.0 being something of a "mini-expansion." 1 new job and a shortened release/story cycle with fewer new zones, but with much more attention paid to updating/reworking existing jobs, updating some old systems, completely pruning other old systems, cosmetic and inventory systems overhauls, maybe even another pass at the housing system, etc. And then use the extra time and resources to go huge in 8.0 with a proper engine upgrade and visual update.

I want 2 new jobs, one healer and one tank, Both focused on DPS to balance the rest that are there.
Throughout the expansion I want two new limited jobs focused on parts of dead content e.g. Beastmaster (Beast tribes), Gambler (Gold Saucer) or Puppetmaster(Pet with Lifeskill craft components from old dungeons)

If not, I will not be happy.

I'd like to see something use scouting gear. Even if it's only a 1 job expansion, there's a very good case for -something- to use scouting gear other than ninja.

Where we are with healers and tanks is fine. The effort that could have been spent on a second job could instead be spent on refreshing as many jobs as possible that we already have.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

I wonder if they would take existing jobs and either make an additional job on top of it (similar to class > job) so conjurer> white mage> geomancer for example. Something maybe for past level 99. They should also get rid of inventory job stones to free up space if they do this.

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Nope, YoshiP said never again after they introduced arcanist to scholar+summoner in ARR. It caused them so much grief for the longest. Everything is a flat-new job.

Classes are still there because it's hell lot of work to pull them completely out of the game and they have better things than go back for esthetics and re-do something for the sake of it.

Ninja is the only job that interests me, fits my style. So I won't be bothered if they don't add a new job.

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Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono

I want 2 new jobs, one healer and one tank, Both focused on DPS to balance the rest that are there.
Throughout the expansion I want two new limited jobs focused on parts of dead content e.g. Beastmaster (Beast tribes), Gambler (Gold Saucer) or Puppetmaster(Pet with Lifeskill craft components from old dungeons)

If not, I will not be happy.

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Prepare to be disappointed then. I would not want a new tank or healer right now, when they're having problems balancing the ones they have now. Reworks are likely possible, but not a brand new one.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

I disagree.

First of all, not all categories are balanced. We still only have 3 casters and 3 ranged.

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No good game developer makes design decisions based on an irrational desire for symmetry. Whatever Job gets added may balance one of these roles, but it may not.

Also, I'm 90% sure we only get one new Job in 7.0

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Originally Posted by Floortank

No good game developer makes design decisions based on an irrational desire for symmetry. Whatever Job gets added may balance one of these roles, but it may not.

Also, I'm 90% sure we only get one new Job in 7.0

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I'm 100% certain it's going to be melee, that uses Scouting gear so NIN isn't the only job using that gear.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm 100% certain it's going to be melee, that uses Scouting gear so NIN isn't the only job using that gear.

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On the other hand, that would be yet another melee job. I think the more balanced choice would be one physical ranged and a caster.

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Originally Posted by Starshower

On the other hand, that would be yet another melee job. I think the more balanced choice would be one physical ranged and a caster.

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Another "hybrid" melee job. Remember, NIN's weaponskills are physical, yet their Mudras are magical. If it opens the door for Spellsword, I'm all for it.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

1 Job and more focus on other jobs.

SMN rework is good but needed a bit more work. It's so empty that you can make a macro'd rotation where you only press 1 and still deal good damage.
Some jobs feels much better like RDM, Some jobs (the ranged) got absolutely nothing or barely noticeable changes.

MCH got a replacement, 2 barely useful traits, one new Queen Finisher that actually worsen the Queen and finally a new button.
DNC removed 2 buttons from the single target rotation then readded them with Fan Dance IV and Starfall Dance. The rest is barely useful traits.
BRD got a replacement, a useless 3rd charge on Bloodletter with the new Mage's Ballad, press Apex Arrow twice, same Tactician reduced CD and finally a new button.

Note that:
BLM got a free charge of triple cast, not a trait just straight up a free charge.
Ranged gets -30s on Tacticians, RDM gets Tacticians.
GNB gets a second charge on Aurora, WAR gets Aurora.
There is also tank discrepancy with Oblation and all the other new tank abilities.

For 6.0 there is a lot of discrepancies between jobs.

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From my perspective, we see than an enhance version of some classes are phenomenal. One of them is BLM. They introduce new tools that round out both single and AOE rotation. With the new 2 charge triple cast, I never felt this much mobile. They did move forward with positive enhancement. Sadly, some other classes, like DRK and AST, that has new buttons only to introduce bloat.

Some things are more clear: any enhance and empowerment of your character feels so satisfy to use; such as reaper possession rotation with cool animation. MNK kit is somewhat like old AST divination but with no rng. Consolidation button and priority system on SMN(which plays like BLM too since we can control when to dispair to fit rotation better when misalign) and brd new buffs, we are moving forward with positive notes. Hopefully they notice we do appreciate them when they round out as such.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

I am very not looking forward to the expansion that would change multiple jobs that people like playing at the same time.
Changing two jobs at a time is enough in my opinion.
However, I would be OK if they decide to stop adding 5+ actions/traits to each job in each expansion to focus on a bit revamping. Especially when some of those actions/traits feel very uninteresting and/or not what I would qualify as "expansion worthy".

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Giving the current situation, I doubt they have enough information and resources to change all of them. I would say round 3 to 5 like you said.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

NIN needs a Job to share gear with, it's the only Job currently that doesn't share it with anyone.

Considering how NIN ain't doing all that well and how it's the most unpopular Job currently ( as far as I know? ) it becomes even dumber.
I mean was NIN supposed to pay a '' no gear share '' tax too because of Trick Attack?
Well that's hardly relevant atm, especially considering that you're incentivized to level and play multiple Jobs it kinda sucks.

Every Job should share it with at least one other Job imo.

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Introducing new scouting may break the scouting itself. As of now, RPR has both elements of old MNK and old DRG but with a bit of twist. For a while, they make MNK hitting slower with higher potency. DRG on the other hand had a debuff that buff range. So the combination of two sort of fitting the old niche that may fit some who want classes that hit slow but really hard. Granted RPR does go faster during possession rotation but it still has the slow, cooldown phase.

Going back to new scout, it needs to bring something newer or at least to bring some old element that everyone likes for scouters. For now, we all know nin brings trick attack which fits and satisfy majority of players. It saturate as of moment.

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Originally Posted by Akamadoshi

I hope this message will bring some sort of comfort. Right now as I understand from community feedback, it is especially Dark Knight and Dancer who are the two most suffering jobs, each in their own terms. Dancer as you well know, was even a new job in 5.0 and even from that point onwards, it was evident their damage output just, wasn't suffice. This was especially notable during solo deep dungeons.

Dark knight has a whole list of issues I cannot comment on as I am not a main DRK. I also feel that White Mage, because it was such a success in 5.0, they may have overlooked it in 6.0 I can only think of that. Because it is a fact that White Mage was superior and everyone said "please don't change white mage" I hope the dev team will read that when we say "please don't change this job" we mean it in the current state, as everything we expect to be enhanced in the next, or with mild change, or with added extras. However, to make what made the job superior in the prior expansion suddenly feels awful is... not a good feeling for anyone playing it and series of complaints starts before the first savage even rolls out, and as I mained white mage in 5.x I feel this way so I am now Reaper.

My point also I am making or trying to make is, is that even when they bring out or do not bring out new jobs, nobody will be 100% happy.
This time, they did in my opinion SO GOOD on job balances and play styles that is makes me embarrassed to complain. WHM for instance, is only MP issue, and misery feels ... very bad somehow (I may be wrong) however, let's say they do not release new jobs, and then.... it will be worse.

Because then they will start to accuse them as 'lazy' because honest truth nobody is ever satisfied not even in this game. So they can only try and improve through feedback, regardless of new jobs, which btw, are totally disconnected from current jobs.

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You are right and I too believe we will never hit 100% satisfaction but much appreciate it if we ever hit it. We have to give them applause for the things that we believe they did right and have a constructive criticism regarding classes that may be clunky. We cannot stop the "not so mindful" and petty complain but we can always be the one who provide them, hopefully, useful information for future plans.

Mechanically and balance wise I believe they've done an incredible job so far. If I have any complaints they're reserved for both DRK and SCH, who feel like they could use reworks at this point to shore up some issues they have. Too many to list for DRK, but SCH needs to have Aetherflow dropped and exclusively use the Fairy Gauge for paying for its moves. Make the fairy automatically upgrade to Seraph at 80, have Fey Union give the fairy a small healing buff while forcing them to focus target one ally for healing for X amount of seconds, turn Dissipation into the gauge dumping move.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

DRK doesn't have a whole list of issues, at least not to the point of needing a MCH or SMN scale rework, which it arguably already got. In fact it's pretty good for what it's supposed to be, which is an off-global centric tank where the GCD rotation is not the main focus. Changing Living Dead would be simple but there has been the opportunity to change it for multiple expansions now and SE seems resolved to keep it.

Although it works for what it's supposed to be, it's often a matter of debate whether the lack of GCD focus makes it boring, but I don't think that suddenly means it has a long list of issues. The GCD simplicity can be a good thing in some cases (such as raids where you want to focus on mechanics) and not a good thing (in dungeons where it could get boring).

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You are right and I agree to some degree. I like the SHB DRK, from my humble opinion, but I think they might move a little too far for number of OGCDs. They can always improve some of them like the new Salted Earth explode on its own if we forget to press, Bloodweapon to 5 stacks.

Shadowbringer is a niche skill but it doesnt bother me. Let say they to delete it and add an enhance edge OGCD, it may satisfy more players actually. What makes some other tanks feel better is their loving CD gets better. For example, GNB heart of stone is amazing for what it is. With the buff in EW, the amazing just got better. Not only it mitigate but it also auto heal on specific heath or heal on expire. PLD enhance sheltron heals and also heals on spell rotation. These kind of enhancement actually feels good to use. It's encourage you to use it correctly.

Currently drk had an oblation that feels meh. It's decent but not blown away. TBN on the other hand gets no change and still tie to dps loss if doesnt break. So, for argument sake, it looks bland compare to other tank.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

If getting no new Job(s) means more focus on already existing ones, then it would be a great tradeoff.

Jobdesign in FFXIV is very basic and most of them dont even have any impact when using powerful Abilities, its either just a big dmg number showing up, or a flashbang animation happening, thats it.
Little things like giving for example, MCH a small recoil effect when using the Drill by simply pushing the user backwards a little would already make powerful Skills actually be powerful.

And what do we get on expansion releases? Hotfixes that should have happened 2 Expansions ago or in the middle of a existing one, multiple charges and filler Abilities and Passives like enhanced Unmend. Those changes aren't expansionworthy at all, and this trend is going on since Stormblood and only gets worse.

A good Story, will NEVER be able to compensate for lacking Gameplay in a MMO over a long period of time. What good is a Story, if immersion gets completely destroyed by gameplay?Memes aside, Do you remember your first time when you encountered Ifrit, your very first Primal, with all the tension and buildup of the situation, only for it to get completely thrown out of the Window by a Fight that is compareable as fighting a B Rank in the overworld on the same level?

I think Squeenix has ALOT of cleaning up to do with their Game.

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ahahhaha push back on a drill. You sure knows a hot take. Not what I would suggest for but understandable for flavor though you may had a nightmare to drill on small platform fight. They make RDM melee counterpart to the flip backward melee same potency for a reason, so the flipping out part just for positioning or style now. Since range players sometime force to fight from a far, push backward me kick them off map or hit the dead wall.

True, expectation standard for ffxiv are increasing and I agree, to some degree too. A good story doesnt compensate lack of gameplay. We see them moving to better normal fight. It's getting more challenge and good mechs but still manageable. We have to applause them for that. Extreme, savage, and ultimate still holds it weight.

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Originally Posted by Darksummoner

You do realize that some people are looking forward to new jobs in new expansions, some want new races, and some look for new abilities cause they like new powers. Not to be rude but when new expansions don't have anything it starts to turn the game stale and old. Last thing I want for FFXIV is it getting old, boring, and stale like World of Warcraft cause the devs are too lazy and literally keep, almost the same abilities for 2 expansions in a row.

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You do also realize that I understand the value of new jobs hence I wrote "just one". Also, I do not think you're rude to me with your comment :).

Back on topic: I wouldn't call them just because they dont release a new class. I think that's going a bit too far. The dev never fail me and I don't think they're going to fail me anytime soon.

I never play wow so I can't comment on that.

You wouldn't have to feel this way if they knew how to balance jobs.

People would be fine with no new jobs and other areas having content cut If they could see where the resources went which as we seen in shb and ew, is not the case. So stuff is being cut but nothing replacing it.

At the very least, they could do with a shift in job design philosphy away from braindead simplification and homogenisation

The problem isn't lack of resources to design jobs to be fun, its lack of care for anything thats not a caster or melee dps.

I would love for them to stop that psychotic degree of balancing and focus on making jobs fun and unique again. Too many jobs in the same role play too similarly and job synergy is pretty much gone apart from the usual yet very boring [increase DPS by X%].
It's too predictable and ultimately boring for me personally. Job design used to be way more fun in my humble opinion.

Have you never played a job based Final Fantasy before? We aren't even 60% through the rotation yet lol.

Jobs as has been demonstrated aren't just built around "Roles" in the party, but sometimes narratives, cultures, themes, which are then assigned a role and thus built to suit that role as an afterthought.

Example: Ninja, is a good example and a bad example of this. If Ninja was introduced later in the development cycle say around heavenward release it's likely that it wouldn't have thief a prerequisite class/job. Yet there is some traditional symbolism there, in that previous installments had thief characters usually evolve into Ninjas, not only in FF but in other similar games as well. Yet what of other cultures in Eorzea that would have had need of ninja-like professions but aren't Japanese inspired? Surely, they wouldn't have just developed the same exact name and skill set. Enter the Assassin job, a job that has lore in previous FF installments namely FFT and FFT Advanced.

Already I could think of a number of differences based on the play style. Ninja focuses
on the use of elemental mudra spells, and quick melee combos. Where as an Assassin would rely more on a wide variety of poisons (DoTs) as well as other debuffs, melee combos that are a bit slower but hit much harder similar to a dragoon.

What of concepts that have already had their groundwork laid out? Such as Geomancer, which has had possibly some of its storied tied into AST and thus could likely be another type of Healer.

Also, job additions don't actually hurt the game. A new DPS doesn't make more work for the healers, or the tanks, nor vice versa. The armor system in the game is such, it doesn't require new or more work for the art/design team as outside of relic armor every job uses equipment based on similarities between their roles/jobs. Even if the job number bloated up more, just like how they did in previous patches, more jobs would become grouped together when it comes to equipment. You've seen it happen already, in the earlier parts of the game there were two armor types Disciples of War and Magic. Then it started to branch out to specialized sets. Using the previous examples Ninja isn't sharing right now so Assassin would obviously fit well there. Geomancer is a healer, healer armor sets would suit it.

Also, look at the success of new jobs every expansion. No one was NOT hyped for new jobs in any previous expansion, you might as well be saying, "Please curb your success so that players can be disappointed MOAR."

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

NIN needs a Job to share gear with, it's the only Job currently that doesn't share it with anyone.

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This already should have/could have been addressed when Dancer was added.