Because spaghetti code, they can't remove it from Summoner without removing it from Scholar as far as I can remember.
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Because spaghetti code, they can't remove it from Summoner without removing it from Scholar as far as I can remember.
Am not completely sure that's the reason since they said doing the job changes live stream that smn rez was on the chopping block and they decided to keep it. So if they were thinking about removing the rez from smn that tells me they can remove spells from smn and keep those same spells on sch since the rez is like physick and is shared by both jobs thought act.
Not really.
Ever since ShB, the only skill SCH shares with ACN/SMN is Resurrection.
Whatever skill(s) they may seem to share are pretty much their own "versions" of them (see: Physick, Ruin II or Energy Drain).
In any case, it would make far more sense to simply upgrade SMN's Physick into Rekindle.
just enough heal to top off your own hp when needed for stack/spread mechanics sometimes, very niche but it happends
Yeah after I posted my comment I looked in-game and saw they considered two diff spells, I forgot they was for some reaon. But it doesn't change my comment bc if they weren't two different spells they could still delete it one job and leave it on the other since the dev was thinking about doing that with the rez spell. The rez spell is the only spell smn and sch share currently in-game and they were thinking when they was reworking of smn of getting rid of the rez. At this point, the dev could do whatever they want and I don't believe "spaghetti code" is holding them back.
It has now been more than eight years since A Realm Reborn released.
As a full-time programmer who also has to frequently debug or update legacy code, I understand that spaghetti code is incredibly annoying to untangle, and I do sympathize with those developers, but toward actively paying customers of a project that’s making so much money that new registrations have to be temporarily locked because of hardware acquisition limitations, it only works as a justifiable excuse for not making pretty notably needed changes of fully breaking Scholar apart from Arcanist for so long.
Was used to heal the pet. Which you can't heal anymore. And low level content until scaling falls off since the spell is coded to scale off of Mind instead of Intelligence. They could easily just upgrade the skill instead of keeping it the way it is. Red Mages will vote against that direction however. Only one can have a Vercure I guess.
You need a justifiable excuse for not starting Summoner and Scholar at level 1 as separate class/jobs? How about "additional expense for little return"?
Sure, it might be satisfying to dump Physick from the Arcanist hot bar, but is that really necessary from an economic viewpoint? Go ahead, justify the additional expense to a stockholder in the company. Change their mind.
Hand waving can be fun, but it is non-productive. In your opinion "fully breaking Scholar apart from Arcanist" might make sense. It doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather focus on the 60 levels after you can become a Scholar, since that makes much more sense.
All of this simply so you don't have to look at Physick on the Summoner hot bar? Hint: you can remove icons from your hot bar with extremely little effort.
I personally, would like a level 30 Trait that changes Psychic into a instant 500 potency heal. And during Phoenix phase it's potency is increased by 600. Of course that probably means having Rekindle do something else.
I still don’t see mechanically how it’s fair that Red Mage’s cure spell is pretty decent but Summoner’s is practically worthless except for the absolute lowest-level content. If the reason is because of supposed lore, then I still don’t agree with that, and it’s not like the other game’s jobs have always perfectly followed lore throughout the rest of the franchise either.
There's no lore reason concerning the state of SMN's Physick.
Only that it "inherited" it from its ACN's roots (and even then, it doesn't mean it has to suck so badly).
And agreed.
If they're still adamant about leaving its Physick as is, then they could (at the very least) replace it with something else through a Trait.
Like say, a Rekindle on demand.
The main problem of Enkindle being a spell is that it becomes a GCD, and thus means you sacrifice damage to heal. The current Enkindle is an ability, so it doesn't cost a GCD to activate. Instead, it can be used between GCDs and becomes a very useful healing tool. The reason why Vercure is still good even though it's on the GCD and has a low potency heal is because of the dualcast trait. Vercure can essentially frontload your next GCD through dualcast without requiring a target, so you can always vercure and then hardcast your next powerful spell immediately during a transition. Suddenly, Vercure becomes a DPS gain.
Alternatively, you can vercure to setup your raise faster, especially if you don't want to target an enemy (EX: Eureka or Bozja) which gives flexibility to the skill outside of simply healing. Enkindle being a spell doesn't do any of that. With SMN having a ton of instant cast GCD attacks, it's much better for Enkindle to be an oGCD ability instead.
Red Mages don't actually use Vercure to actually heal in most content (mainly because tanks and healers can keep themselves and everyone else alive fine). It's more of a utility thing that simply meshes well in the toolkit as a result of dualcast.
SMN's Physick is pretty much an outdated relic that is kept I assume only because Alphinaud exists as an ACN for a large part of the story but heals. I would not be surprised if Physick gets adjusted into an oGCD heal for SMN with a long cooldown and becomes Enkindle later down the line. That, or get removed entirely. They have been trying to separate SCH and SMN for a long time after all, and even if both SCH and SMN have energy drain, the way both of them use it is different.
So... make it an ability then.
Weaponskills/Spells with long cooldowns still trigger the gcd, and it's triggering the gcd that makes physick (and vercure) worse.
I'll say it again--you don't want Rekindle to be a spell. You don't want a healing spell. Physick would be shit if it were based on INT!
Why?
Because you're giving up a GCD for a heal that's shittier than Cure. If a WHM won't cast Cure 1, a DPS has no business to, outside of niche applications like RDM during downtime.
That's the point.
As it currently stands, SMN's Physick is completely useless (unlike RDM's Vercure).
You can't seriously expect it to save you or anyone else in said "niche" situations.
Hence why I made that suggestion to "upgrade" it through a Trait if they would leave it as is.
Hell, that could also allow them to implement a brand new Astral Flow skill for Firebird Trance/Demi-Phoenix.
Hows about Square Enix just go all the way for the summoner route (as far as phsyik goes) Since they have reworked summoner to be more like its traditional style in past games (summon the monster, let it carpetbomb the area and then immedialy leave)
Just remove Physick, and then add "Summon Moogle King" Simularly to the other summons, moogle will be summoned, appear, use a aoe pom-cure or something, and then dissapear. The summoner gains 3 stacks of "mog-attunement" to use on 3 abilities.
Gemshine turns to Pom-cure 2 (a single target heal)
Preshoius brilliance turns to Moogle-go-round (a small aoe crit buff)
Astral Flow turns to Momento Moogle (an aoe damaging attack)
i may put this idea into more thought and detail later, but I feel like this type of approach will only add to the fun, identity and versatility of the class
RDM needs Vercure for dualcast priming, it would lose little utility if the potency were reduced. (An argument can be made it'd be better if it were, but that's neither here nor there.)
Physick has no use case justifying it. This is why SMN has ogcd healing and barrier powers and RDM does not. If they made Physick useful, say good bye to your 20% HP barrier.
OK.
Then how would replacing Physick with Rekindle at later levels (through a Trait), thus allowing us to use it anytime we wanted it (instead of only through Firebird Trance), effectively "break" its current balance?
As I suggested, just making it have a long oGCD (~2mins) would be perfect.
You can't use a trait to turn a spell into an ability. That's not a 'balance issue' that's a 'you just can't do it' issue. Nor should you ever do this if you could. You should not transform spammable abilities into unspammable abilities through a trait. This is inherently bad design.
However, if they replaced Physick with something useful, that means you give up something in exchange. SMN already has ogcd healing and barrier powers (which is far more useful than a spell) so if they made Physick useful, something would have to be traded for it.
And bear in mind, I'm arguing Physick scaling from INT is still useless, because it's a spell.
Then the solution is simple: either change SMN's Physick into an ability, or change Rekindle (its potential upgrade) into a spell.
Either way would allow the former to be upgraded into the latter.
So is Vercure, and even if it's (mostly) used as "dualcast fodder", it's still an utility-based spell (thus, subject to CDs).
If Physick can't scale to INT for balance reasons, then fine.
But they could (at the very least) "streamline" it so it still serves a purpose, thus, a place in players hotbars (post-Lv.49).
Or leave it alone and use your other three cure/barriers. Summoner doesn't need a fourth. An argument can be made to have Physick scaled off Int. An argument can't be made that SMN lacks cures.
The fact that it is a spell is what makes it so that 'dualcast fodder' is, in serious content, it's only real utility outside of utter emergencies. The other thing is that RDM (until Endwalker) had nothing else as a defensive option. No regens, no shields, no ogcds. RDM had no Titan, no Manawall, it had Vercure and that's it.Quote:
So is Vercure, and even if it's (mostly) used as "dualcast fodder", it's still an utility-based spell (thus, subject to CDs).
Honestly I don't care if it scales to INT. But no argument can be made that SMN is wanting for defensive options. Not one. It's got an embarassment of riches here.Quote:
If Physick can't scale to INT for balance reasons, then fine.
Or just delete it. SMNs don't need what a better Physick would provide.Quote:
But they could (at the very least) "streamline" it so it still serves a purpose, thus, a place in players hotbars (post-Lv.49).
Oh, sure.
Lemme wait TWO ENTIRE MINUTES before I get access to an (automatic) party-wide regen and a single target regen.
The latter of which I can only use within a 15 sec. timer.
I'm sure that (and just like with Vercure) I can use it save anyone needing a heal ASAP....oh wait, no I can't.
And now that (post-Lv.80) RDM has Magick Barrier, that's no longer an issue.
Your point being?
Only if they delete RDM's Vercure as well.
It's only fair, if it only has a "niche" use (just like with SMN's Physick), right?
Vercure DOES something though. It permits you the ability to proc dualcast when there's no boss up. They could nerf vercure so it worked like physick and it'd still be miles ahead of physick in use because it has this niche. Which is a niche you use on every fight with downtime. But it can't be deleted because that's deleting an actual piece of utility that RDMs use in their kit for damage optimization.Quote:
Only if they delete RDM's Vercure as well.
It's only fair, if it only has a "niche" use (just like with SMN's Physick), right?
SMN's physick does not have any similar niche use, and you know it! What 'niche' use are you guys referring to with Physick? Does it make your next Ruin III cast hit harder or something undocumented that I'm not aware of? No? It just makes a green number appear? Okay then, it doesn't have a niche use and you're trolling.
And two charges of a shield you use on yourself, which you use during prog to help your healers. You DO use your shields yes? And the regen is one that, if you don't need it right away, it parks on the target for 30 seconds, and then triggers if they take a bit of damage, ticks for 1000 healing.Quote:
Oh, sure.
Lemme wait TWO ENTIRE MINUTES before I get access to an (automatic) party-wide regen and a single target regen.
The latter of which I can only use within a 15 sec. timer.
If that's not useful to you, then Physick sure as hell won't be.
RDM has a raidwide redux now. It's a good one. No one's saying it's not.Quote:
And now that (post-Lv.80) RDM has Magick Barrier, that's no longer an issue.
Your point being?
That still means RDM is the only dps in the game without a personal mitigation cooldown/selfheal ogcd of some sort. And I'm not saying it should.
But when you have a job that has an embarassment of defensive riches you don't look to the job that has less than you and go 'How come that job has something it can piss away its dps for?'
And I'm on team 'I don't actually give a fuck if Physick scales with Int' because it'd still be shit. But I'd rather, if given the choice, have Aegis made good (not tied to vanillacarby) than Physick made less-shit-but-still-shit.
This would be a more complex fix for the developers than simply changing the spell to be based off a different stat or having a much higher potency, possibly via a newly added trait… but I do really like the design idea you fleshed out; that sounds like a lot of fun!
Watch people coming for this idea with "This is trash because it doesn't fit into my high-end raid play".
I'm on the team that loves niche abilities. Is Vercure niche? It surely is, but I have been able to save 4-man wipes with it. Is Clemency niche? Pretty much, but the satisfaction of being able to finish the last 4% of a fight when just you and the other tank lives is pretty good.
On top of that, 24-man raids often require a lot of niche action usage on release when the pug is dying left and right.
Having an optional Summon for recovery in the rotation would be awesome. It would also justify the bottom of the barrel damage SMN is doing. One of the key features of the Moogle King in the ARR extreme was that he used his own health to replenish that of his smaller Moogle allies even reviving the incapacitated. That would be super fun to incorporate into his summoning. Since Phoenix doesn't actually have any revival skill it wouldn't compete either. Let King Mog have an AoE revival upon summoning within a reasonable radius of the caster. This would mean a SMN would need to stand strategically at a point to revive the most people and make use of their crazy mobility. Turning Gemshine into Pom-Cure 2 is very fitting but Precious Brilliance would make more sense as an AoE Heal to match it in my opinion that shared 4 charges. This summon would be incredibly powerful for recovery but also interrupt the cycle of attunement to air, fire, and earth making it a notable DPS loss. It would add some risk versus reward to SMN that would be much appreciated for me personally. I wouldn't mind giving up the standard Ressurection spell we have currently for something more flashy like this.
There was a question about this in the official live letter thread that received a surprising amount of likes, but it sadly wasn’t asked at tonight’s live letter, so that’s a bummer. Hoping this spell eventually gets to do something useful someday so that it doesn’t feel like another Fluid Aura.
Honestly I didn't expect such specific question to be answered in this LL, due to how it was. Basically the only thing they touched very vaguely were Living Dead (which is not even the - main- DRK problem atm) and MCH's low dps.
Realistically I feel that might be something featured in the LL 2 weeks from now, or the another one that might happen late march before 6.1.
I was honestly pretty surprised to see them very specifically address Living Dead in a general roadmap session. Now if only they also responded more specifically to a healing question they got rather than quickly dismiss it with a rude comment implying that ultimate content being harder excuses problems with the rest of the game, but little steps, I guess.
With the Patch 6.1 notes now fully shown and this spell being untouched again, I have to wonder what’s keeping this from being looked at further for possible improvements or outright deprecation? Why was it even shown in Endwalker director demos if it’s still much worse than Vercure?
I wonder if we can convince Larryzaur to bring this inconsistency between Summoner and Red Mage during his next interview opportunity since he mains Summoner. Zepla is also starting to play Summoner a lot more during streams.
Why are people so obsessed with wanting to heal as a DPS? Shouldn't you be focused on, I don't know, dealing damage?
“Why are people so obsessed with wanting to do damage as a healer? Shouldn’t you be focused on, I don’t know, healing?”
“Why are people so obsessed with wanting to heal or do damage as a tank? Shouldn’t you be focused on, I don’t know, gaining maximum amounts of enmity with ranged attacks?”
It’s nice to have variety and be flexible sometimes. What about situations where both healers are dead and someone wants to stop the only tank from immediately dying while another person tries to raise them, or is raising also bad for summoners and red mages since that’s typically done by healers? Encounters don’t always go just as planned.
There’s honestly no good reason for there to be an inconsistency between the utility of healing options with summoner versus red mage. In this particular case, either Physick should be updated to scale off the correct stat to be consistent with Red Mage, or healing spells be removed from both DPS jobs.