Zenos is... [big fat spoily]

I’ll certainly miss him if he really died.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

To the common person in the street, if they know the world as anything other than "the world" or "the star" it would be only "Hydaelyn", so to suddenlly go around calling it 'Etheirys" to a random person in the street would just grant odd looks.

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But we're not talking to "a random person in the street", we're talking to each other and we understand what the words mean. Everyone in the group of people our character regularly discusses such concepts with has shifted to calling it Etheirys. Why shouldn't we do the same?

Even for a newcomer to the game, if they ask why we're calling it an unfamiliar term, all you need to say is that later on in the game they introduce the term for easier distinction between the two. You don't need to explain where the term came from or why it's significant that we shift from one to the other.

Additionally the "Etheirys" jewellery set comes from the modern-day aetherial sea, not from the ancient world.

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Originally Posted by linayar

I am of the opinion that the new (or older, in this case) name is not necessary because there would be no confusion for the name Hydaelyn moving forward.

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But we're not going to stop talking about Hydaelyn in lore discussions just because she's no longer an active character in the story.

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

It's been stated by Yoshida that he didn't like the direction of Zenos and acknowledges how we felt about it, but all things considering, story wise, Zenos was simply looking for someone worthy of giving him a good death and he got it. I think he is satisfied and can rest in peace.

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Yes, because he should have been dead and gone since his time in SB. Every thing post it was silly imho. He just felt like an annoying yandere boyfriend that demanded our attention and would destroy all the to get it.
Just die already lol.

Zenos should've stayed dead when he off'd himself at the end of base 4.0. Glad he's gone. He stuck around WAY too long imo.

I posted my full thoughts on Zenos in another thread here.

TL;DR, he's served his purpose and bringing him back would undermine it.

It would be kind of cool if they made Zenos into a Trust. <3

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

^This. Zenos is finally dead and gone. It's subtle but

if you watch the scene after the final battle with him (after Zenos and the WoL beat each other up), Zenos's breathing becomes increasingly shallow, and he manages to pant out a final "I....." before cutting out mid sentence. The camera even concentrates on his chest which is subtly rising and falling... before even that stops, showing he's stopped breathing, and then becomes completely motionless from them on. And it wasn't just the injuries the WoL gave him in the battle and their final fitsticuffs either, he was consuming his own life and soul to fight there and even with his Resonant powers, it wasn't infinite, so he was basically just running on fumes by that stage (even after using the last remnants of the Mothercrystal to become Shinryu, I'm sure he was also consuming his own life while in that form as well which would not have helped).

He even outright stated just before his duel that he was going to completely "burn through the candle of his life" in order to go full-out with the WoL, so he basically consumed his entire aether and life in order to have his last glorious final battle, and with his defeat, even his Resonant power couldn't save him anymore, especially at the edge of the universe where they were, where there was no one to jump his soul to, and so he just... expired. The WoL very nearly suffered the same fate except of course they were saved by a deus ex machina (and a lot of healing from Alphinaud, Urianger and G'raha).

So yeah, he's dead, gone and left to rot at the edge of creation, forgotten, unloved and unmourned. Good riddance.

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Go to Ultima Thule and do the Quest of N-7000. And then think about it ;-)

God I hope not

there's no way he's dead. he's came back from the dead before and we all know the devs don't really like killing off characters. i'd maybe believe it if he poofed into aether, but even then we'd probably see his soul again like we did with Emet lol. there's like 3-4 ways/theories of how he can come back. we literally see the man leave his own body, on his own accord, Ascian-style early in EW. not to mention there's multiple plotholes involving him as well as cryptic hints the devs keep dropping.(i won't go into detail here) the last fight/dialogue doesn't even appear to be a fight with a villain, and the devs confirmed he wasn't the final boss at all. rival/antihero arc inc (it's already started lol) it honestly reminded me of a pokemon rival fight.

i won't even get into the voidsent thing here. it's a lot.

oh and they're obsessed with marketing him, look at Cafe Eorzea. in the recent interview they said they don't give merch of characters until they're gone for good (we're getting Emet merch soon) absolutely nothing about Zenos.

the devs also have stated they don't care about a character's popularity when keeping them alive/dead, so the crowd of people who hate him don't really matter.

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Originally Posted by Vyrion

It would be kind of cool if they made Zenos into a Trust. <3

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I honestly want to see more Trusts even for outside of MSQ or just "avatars/spirits"..

Deep down i really fancy the idea of a Zenos trust if you happen to get certain requirements/get all your trust allies to 90 etc

Zenos is a running gag at this point.

I hope not, I feel so done with his character. Dude was obsessed with one thing that he overhyped so much that when he got it he didn't even enjoy it.

I hope he's dead. He's like Team Rocket at this point, he's not a theat as much as an annoyance.

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Originally Posted by nighttimebunny

oh and they're obsessed with marketing him, look at Cafe Eorzea. in the recent interview they said they don't give merch of characters until they're gone for good (we're getting Emet merch soon) absolutely nothing about Zenos.

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Yea, thats why we got the Estinien action figure, Graha statue, Ysthola doll before EW, because they were totally gone for good lol

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Originally Posted by Rokke

I hope he's dead. He's like Team Rocket at this point, he's not a theat as much as an annoyance.



Yea, thats why we got the Estinien action figure, Graha statue, Ysthola doll before EW, because they were totally gone for good lol

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Did you not watch the radio show? They said they didn't want to give Emet merch until his role in the story was over. It's different for villains. We also got a Yotsuyu minion after she died

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Originally Posted by nighttimebunny

Did you not watch the radio show? They said they didn't want to give Emet merch until his role in the story was over. It's different for villains. We also got a Yotsuyu minion after she died

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Which is a funny comment because Emet already had merch pre EW too lol. He had a standee you could buy, a 2nd standee that was a prize in their claw game, and was the mascot on japan's fanfest t-shirt. I would know, I bought all 3 lol

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Which is a funny comment because Emet already had merch pre EW too lol. He had a standee you could buy, a 2nd standee that was a prize in their claw game, and was the mascot on japan's fanfest t-shirt. I would know, I bought all 3 lol

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Those are Yoshi P's words, not mine. Take it up with him lol.

Anyway I've never seen so many people argue/not have a common agreement about if a character is dead or not. Zenos just has a huge question mark still

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

Yup, I'm sure Zenos will come back again, I said this the moment I finished EW. :) We still don't know why he had dreams about the Final Days and what Emet did (to him). I hate this plot hole and I want to know what happened.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...8/xscr0997.png

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They also brought this up in like 5 different cutscenes total, they wanted us to pay attention to it for some reason...

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

Yup, I'm sure Zenos will come back again, I said this the moment I finished EW. :) We still don't know why he had dreams about the Final Days and what Emet did (to him). I hate this plot hole and I want to know what happened.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...8/xscr0997.png

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That's a big one for me. We not only know we were an Ancient but on the Convocation of Fourteen and *we* don't dream of anything like that. Did Emet cause that with his experimentation? And if so, just what the heck did he do?

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Ehh, it could just be that his breathing normalized as he passed into being unconscious. Despite his Enshroud fading, one of his hands and part of his outfit still remained partially transformed.

I could see it going three ways.

1. He's dead like you think.

2. He's not dead, but will have to find a long way home.

3. He's dead, but the Voidsent now possesses his body ala Reaper Questline antagonist. Next time we see him, he's a Voidsent in Zenos wrappings that is interested in us because it wants to omnomnomnom on our super soul.

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Ever since i did the Reaper storyline im stuck on point 3.
Also Yoshi P told us to pay attention to his avatar, which avatar didnt do anything special in the cutscenes or fights, so its probably that.

Zenos should come back as a satisfied retired caretaker who is humbled.

He's dead. End of story.

I'm expecting his Reaper avatar to be our next MSQ trial in 6.3. Hopefully settling the story of him being dead for good.

what the hell are they even going to do with zenos at this point, just sit around for a couple of expansion waiting for yet another rematch? just what story is there left to tell with zenos at this point?

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

Many things, actually! :D Especially now that he took the time to travel to Sharlayan, not to attack people but to find a way to help us. (I'm forever salty I did not get to see what he said and did in Sharlayan). At the end he asked the WoL "Did you find fulfillment?" and then he said "I..." and died. This is up to the player, but I think he wanted to say he did not find fulfillment after all and he realized that fighting us endlessly for a moment of happiness is pointless. He was actually quite disappointed because he lost again. Plus he was the one who helped us get home, a suprising act of selflessness.

And then there's the thing I linked in a previous post: why did Zenos dream about the Final Days and how is Emet-Selch involved? I have so many questions. They also never mentioned his lonely childhood in the game, only in an official book. Why was Varis so cold to him? Is it because he was an a-hole or is there something else to that story? There's a fan theory that Zenos is somehow an experiment of Emet and that's why Varis never loved him. Who knows? Zenos is a mysterious character and SE could do so much more... There are many possibilities.

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We could utilize time travel again, but I feel like that's an overused trope. "Go into the past to learn about so-and-so!" I think it'd be better done as like a "The Life of Zenos" as recounted in a questline, through texts, word of mouth, or some other creative way. I just... don't... want... to see him anymore. That was the perfect ending for him, I hope SE just lets him be.

Give me a real rival, not this dimwitted, attention-seeking, egomaniacal, Karen of an enemy. I want a Thanos type of rival; someone I can relate to, understand, even empathize with but whom I am still completely at odds. Someone I dread facing, not because he has flashy techniques but because I know he is dedicated to winning at all costs. Someone whose ideallogy, intelligence and willpower are just as threatening as his daunting personal power.

Calling Zenos a rival is a lame joke. "Self-described" rival, more like.

Considering this is FF4 expansion & Zenos is fairly identical to a certain Goldbez I too doubt he is actually dead. Also we know Zenos can't control his resurrection as even he was surprised to live in SB & based on Reaper questline it feels like he would've you know exploded into void dust like the Reaper Job quest, I fully expect a Goldbez turn with him changing & becoming a kinder good guy.

Still la lot of mystery around Zenos such as what experiments did Varis do to him when talked about Zenos being nothing but a Experiment/monster or Fan Daniel talk about whatever Emet may have done to Zenos "could Emet found a way?" plenty of stuff to delve into with Zenos. Also what's with people assuming he used up all the mother crystal energy to get there/fight us he may still have reserves & even if that is the case I imagine he can easily control all the Dynamis in that zone.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Umbra

Also what's with people assuming he used up all the mother crystal energy to get there/fight us he may still have reserves & even if that is the case I imagine he can easily control all the Dynamis in that zone.

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Zenos consumed what was left of the Mothercrystal to turn into Shinryu and to travel to the Dead Ends - and that he needed to use every last drop of aether it gave to do so (notice he actually did not help the WoL with the Endsinger but merely acted as a stage for the fight?) - remember the Ragnarok needed to use up most of the Mothercrystal to do the same thing.

And afterwards, Zenos himself outright tells you that "he will have to burn through the candle of his life" to face the WoL, he was basically saying then and there "this will end me, but as long as I get my glorious battle with you, then I will die happy." And that is exactly what happens. He might have had some left over 'Mothercrystal' aether within his body for his last battle, but I pretty much doubt it.

The fact SE actually had him state that made it pretty clear that is exactly what takes place, it's pretty clear cut. He's gone and is not coming back.

Further on the tangent of whether "Etheirys" should be the term for the modern world or only the unsundered world – I'm replaying the level 84 moon quests at the moment, and Urianger starts calling it Etheirys (talking about the view of the planet from the moon) as soon as the Watcher introduces the term. Also the Loporrits call it Etheirys despite being created by Hydaelyn post-sundering, so apparently she intends to keep calling it that.

If there's a specific origin to calling the planet Hydaelyn, I would suspect it was the Sharlayans who started it after making contact with the so-thought Mothercrystal at the heart of the planet and incorrectly conflating the two.

So here's my take on it. He's still alive and will show back up out of nowhere in a brand new clone body since Garlemald has perfected cloning technology and even Emet-Selch had multiple cloned bodies just laying around for him to use when he died. He will be satisfied with the fight we had, but now it's no longer about having the best fight every. It's now about winning that fight as he views it as overcoming the one challenge he as ever had in his life. A goal he can aim for. In order to do this he will journey around the world in our company and help us in the new challenges we will face. If he and his method did not work in beating us, maybe seeing how we live our day to day life and following what we do is the key to finally pushing past his limits.

Yeah, it's dumb, but no one dies in this game when they should.

The ending of EW was ****ing amazing. I loved every second. Sorry, not sorry. lop

zenos is dead and i hope he stays dead. they could keep him alive and give him a redemption arc but at this point that just cheapens our duel at the end of endwalker.

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

Many things, actually! :D Especially now that he took the time to travel to Sharlayan, not to attack people but to find a way to help us. (I'm forever salty I did not get to see what he said and did in Sharlayan). At the end he asked the WoL "Did you find fulfillment?" and then he said "I..." and died. This is up to the player, but I think he wanted to say he did not find fulfillment after all and he realized that fighting us endlessly for a moment of happiness is pointless. He was actually quite disappointed because he lost again. Plus he was the one who helped us get home, a suprising act of selflessness.

And then there's the thing I linked in a previous post: why did Zenos dream about the Final Days and how is Emet-Selch involved? I have so many questions. They also never mentioned his lonely childhood in the game, only in an official book. Why was Varis so cold to him? Is it because he was an a-hole or is there something else to that story? There's a fan theory that Zenos is somehow an experiment of Emet and that's why Varis never loved him. Who knows? Zenos is a mysterious character and SE could do so much more... There are many possibilities.

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They clearly didn’t care enough about these possibilities to actually do anything with them in the three expansions he was in so I don’t know why you think it would be worth keeping him around for more. Also he didn’t go to Sharlyan with the intention of helping, he simply wanted to find us. If you pick the option “I don’t want your help” he even flat out says he’d rather not give it because he doesn’t care anything about that kind of stuff.

Zenos coming back AGAIN after seeming death would be just a comedy with "how many times do we have to teach you this lesson"
He fulfilled his wish, he's not a nice guy who loves to help. He's basically the WoL, if WoL didn't have his ties, friends and was only lead by pure anger, revenge and wish to fight.

Zenos got his amazing fight breaking the limits and he died happy, even tho he is so far from lifestream and Etheirys he wont be able to be reborn eventually
Let him rest already.

I have to say, as much as it seems to me that narratively Zenos should stay dead, he has his fancy unique reaper avatar that we saw for all of five seconds – so unless it was originally intended to be more prominent and they changed the script after it was made, I think there must still be future plans for it and therefore him. Unless the avatar manages to come back on its own somehow.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I have to say, as much as it seems to me that narratively Zenos should stay dead, he has his fancy unique reaper avatar that we saw for all of five seconds – so unless it was originally intended to be more prominent and they changed the script after it was made, I think there must still be future plans for it and therefore him. Unless the avatar manages to come back on its own somehow.

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The reaper job quests show that an avatar can possess the body of their partner. And Zenos's body is just left laying there in the void. It's entirely possible the avatar could take it for a ride and come back. But it really just feels like needlessly padding out the arc.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I have to say, as much as it seems to me that narratively Zenos should stay dead, he has his fancy unique reaper avatar that we saw for all of five seconds – so unless it was originally intended to be more prominent and they changed the script after it was made, I think there must still be future plans for it and therefore him. Unless the avatar manages to come back on its own somehow.

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Not the first time it would happen. Beq Luqq had some monster form that was used for like 3 cutscenes, we still have that Emet clone room shown to us and being used only once to show how his body can't die on the Source. Lesser Ascians that are completely forgotten and seemingly even retconned after HW. That one Zenos' costume from ShB that was advertised like a huge spoilery deal, was postponed for release in Dissidia NT, because it would be a SPOILER, and then we saw Zenos wearing it in 2 cutscenes before he swapped to rpr.

This game overall tends to add some details and plot points that are being used only for couple cutscenes and then they are thrown away completely.

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Originally Posted by Sarnai

Not the first time it would happen. Beq Luqq had some monster form that was used for like 3 cutscenes, we still have that Emet clone room shown to us and being used only once to show how his body can't die on the Source. Lesser Ascians that are completely forgotten and seemingly even retconned after HW. That one Zenos' costume from ShB that was advertised like a huge spoilery deal, was postponed for release in Dissidia NT, because it would be a SPOILER, and then we saw Zenos wearing it in 2 cutscenes before he swapped to rpr.

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In those cases it's because they're getting use out of the model in some other way. Beq Lugg is the first boss of the dungeon. The Solus clones are copy-paste of an existing model. The Dissidia model got used for that.

Zenos's avatar might be use on par with a boss model, but I didn't really see it at all in that last fight.

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

And he did many fun things in the expansions, there's always room for more. :)

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Yeah, remember how he killed messengers who brought him bad news, and brutalized two entire nations just looking for someone to fight, and tortured Krile for mad science, and hijacked a dragon just to make a fight bigger, and killed himself, and then killed his dad, and started an apocalypse? Good times, good times.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Yeah, remember how he killed messengers who brought him bad news, and brutalized two entire nations just looking for someone to fight, and tortured Krile for mad science, and hijacked a dragon just to make a fight bigger, and killed himself, and then killed his dad, and started an apocalypse? Good times, good times.

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Yeah, but he also helped saved the Universe. When you think about it, he killed way less people than Emet-Selch/Ascians and Venat.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Yeah, but he also helped saved the Universe. When you think about it, he killed way less people than Emet-Selch/Ascians and Venat.

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He didn't care about saving the universe. He cared about getting us past other distractions so we could face him fair and square. And being a killer at a smaller scale doesn't make him not a killer.

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

People are different. These are actually some of the things I like about him. lol

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So.....you like that he's a mass-murdering sociopath?