Its exactly like every DRK thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Praesul

Everything I said still applies. PPM is a stupid, misleading metric to use. There is a gap in healing capabilities between the jobs that's for sure, but it's not as wide as PPM would lead you to believe because again, you don't use everything on CD. Unless you think using equilibrium at full HP is a good idea, in which case you shouldn't even take part in this discussion. You also do not use shake it off on cooldown as a personal defensive ability. These stats are near worthless, no ifs ands or buts.
It also fails to take into account how mitigation affects shields, because % mitigation will make shields even stronger whereas it has no effect on cure potencies.

There's legitimate things you could point to as evidence for buffing this job or that, but these stats are not them. Rework living dead, buff oblation or TBN, rework blood weapon, all of these are valid complaints. But "whoah look at how much shield and heal ppm all the other tanks have!" is not valid because that's just not how the game works at all.

It would be like pointing out how high some dps job bursts within the first 10 seconds of an encounter and calling for nerfs just based on those metrics when in actuality it's damage output levels off and is within range of everyone else once you get past those 10 seconds.

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Genuinely curious. How would you advise one to go about measuring it then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xiaoki

Dark Knight's main issue is dungeons?

What?!

Well then, lets check FFLogs for dungeon runs. Oh, yeah, they don't log dungeons because no one cares about dungeons.

Dungeons only purpose is for Tomestones. And they quickly become trivial on any Job in the entire game with raid gear.
You know, the gear that drops from raids.
Oh ...uh ...Raids are like dungeons but instead of 4 players you have 8 players.
Also, Extreme, Savage and Ultimate difficulty raids are the only content that matters what Job you are and how well your Job performs.

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This is a very elitist mindset. How do you expect change if the devs focus on casual content experience the most. Casual content includes dungeons.

I dont think we will see any change until people start stating problems with DRK in all content not just extremes, savages and ultimates.

WAR wins again, baby!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hierro

WAR wins again, baby!

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Well WAR were the least favoured raid tanks in ShB (We're living in a world were damage always wins and the damage gap we have right now is nothing to sneeze at).War were always Amazing in dungeons tho and still are.
I don't play DRK but I'm all in favor of giving them means to recover I don't like to see fellow tanks suffer they need changes, they might do fine in raids but running DRK in dungeons at this point is a pain for not only them but the healers too who have a better time with any of the other tanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Let's stop pretending that dungeons do not exist.
If your job does terrible in a dungeon, it is not fun. For you or anyone else in the dungeon with you.
"Yes but what matters is savage and ultimates" hell no. Not everyone bothers with that.
Dungeon is the vast majority of the game's content mind you, so yes a job should at least be fun to play and effective there before considering how effective they are in high difficulty content.

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Dungeons do exist, they just don't matter.

They don't matter because you can easily out-gear them. If you're at the max gear sync and still having problems then that is on the player, not the Job and you're only blaming the Job because you are bad.

The only reason dungeons are the majority of the content is because people run them for Tomestones. That's it, that's the only reason.

Also, if you did bother with the actually difficult content then you would know that things that matter in dungeons don't matter nearly as much in raids.

Like tank self-sustain.

Tank self healing isn't that important in raids because you either take a big tank buster and healers bomb you with heals and the self healing you just did is over-healing and useless (congrats) or you take a raid-wide AoE that does like 10% damage to you but 60 to 70% damage to healers.

In Savage raids most of my TBNs would go to the healers because I didn't need it.

Good, you are a god at the game, we get it.
Stop making everything about savage content. You know people can also, get this, not be interresting in doing high difficulty stuff ?
So it's fine that DRK is a slog in dungeons during levelling, 'cause once you have done them enough to get the high end gear that comes 2 months later you'll do enough damage to be actually good ?
That's your justification ? Why is it only DRK struggling then ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

I'm not suggesting kill it's identity.

I understand Warrior having more heal sustain than others, but when it's getting pushed to double the amount vs PLD/GNB, and 4x the amount vs DRK, it's climbing up to a point, Warrior is becoming the immortal tank further expansions. Warrior has the shortest Invuln cooldown with absolutely no draw backs, DRK has a 5 Min Living Dead that needs rework on it's debuff, GNB Bolide 6 Mins forcing to 1HP, PLD HG being a very long cooldown 7 mins no damage, all three of these have drawbacks.

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It's interesting how you're comparing the healing to the other tanks as if that's all there is to it. PLD doesn't need to heal as much due to having much more mitigation, with "half" the healing it survives just as long. GNB has more mitigation, does more damage, and the combo heal is on 2 vs 3. DRK simply needs a buff in this department, so comparison here is futile unless you're advocating for DRK buffs.

Also Holmgang does have a minor draw back. You still receive damage. Both GNB and PLD literally make you invulnerable. The only one that's trash is DRK, so once again comparison here is futile unless advocating for a DRK buff. The other three are more balanced.

Quote:

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Now when you have the tank that literally fights without needing healing assistance for a long while, self power healing that can be popped wherever it's needing it, no invuln drawback, great burst, you'll have to submit this job has been obtaining more power heals every xpac and without putting limits on it, it's going to run into a big problem with comps setups meaning no healer, or 1 Healer only required for example. In the future this job needs drawbacks as every other tank does, except DRK being in a bad spot at the moment in some places.

---

As I stated above, PLD can survive just as long without a healer, the invuln does have a draw back, and all tanks except for maybe PLD have great bursts (which will definitely change). If teams were to run 1 healer and 1 tank, it wouldn't be exclusive to WAR. It would more than likely come down to GNB or WAR only because PLD does the least damage by a good amount, and DRK simply can't survive on its own. As soon as PLD gets a potency buff, all but DRK could fulfill this roll. So that whole scenario is moot. Especially since most top teams are actually running DRK and GNB over WAR and PLD for raids and extremes. Which shows just how little survivability really matters in end game content.

Lastly WAR does have draw backs. Stop acting like it's top tier. It simply has the best healing and shielding, while being the easiest to play. That's it. It has the least mitigation, and does the third most damage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xiaoki

Dungeons do exist, they just don't matter.

They don't matter because you can easily out-gear them. If you're at the max gear sync and still having problems then that is on the player, not the Job and you're only blaming the Job because you are bad.

The only reason dungeons are the majority of the content is because people run them for Tomestones. That's it, that's the only reason.

Also, if you did bother with the actually difficult content then you would know that things that matter in dungeons don't matter nearly as much in raids.

Like tank self-sustain.

Tank self healing isn't that important in raids because you either take a big tank buster and healers bomb you with heals and the self healing you just did is over-healing and useless (congrats) or you take a raid-wide AoE that does like 10% damage to you but 60 to 70% damage to healers.

In Savage raids most of my TBNs would go to the healers because I didn't need it.

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Most the dungeons are tied to the main story, which we all play repeatedly, whether you like it or not.

And, only a small portion of this games player base actually touches end game content too.

Makes no sense to tailor the game to the small minority at the expense of the majority, balance has to be found.

I'm not sure which dungeon broke your heart my friend, but they are and always will be a vitally important aspect to the game and every job should feel/perform well within them really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Players tend to be quite greedy when it comes to identities. It's never just about focusing in on one thing, they want all the good things. One of the things that I'm enjoying about melee dps at the moment is that the jobs feel much more varied. You can only really have that if you respect job boundaries and give them all an opportunity to have an identity. WAR is spread so widely across so many areas that it stifles game design. I don't think you could come up with a fifth tank at this point.

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I'm curious in what you mean by spread so widely? It literally only does 1 thing better than other tanks. Self heal. The only other thing that it has that the other tanks don't is guaranteed direct hit crits. Even so, it's in third place damage wise. Lastly it's the simplest tank (arguably class) to play. All of this pretty much makes it impossible for it to be "spread widely".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xiaoki

Dungeons do exist, they just don't matter.

They don't matter because you can easily out-gear them. If you're at the max gear sync and still having problems then that is on the player, not the Job and you're only blaming the Job because you are bad.

The only reason dungeons are the majority of the content is because people run them for Tomestones. That's it, that's the only reason.

Also, if you did bother with the actually difficult content then you would know that things that matter in dungeons don't matter nearly as much in raids.

Like tank self-sustain.

Tank self healing isn't that important in raids because you either take a big tank buster and healers bomb you with heals and the self healing you just did is over-healing and useless (congrats) or you take a raid-wide AoE that does like 10% damage to you but 60 to 70% damage to healers.

In Savage raids most of my TBNs would go to the healers because I didn't need it.

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I would make the counter argument, that the vast majority of this games community, does not wish to see FFXIV turn into World of Warcraft.

LD needs a visual aesthetic to signal to healers that LD is still active instead of counting on them to pay attention to your buff/debuff while mechanics are still happening. Not to mention LD’s mechanic is placed on the job with the lowest self sustain out of all of them while sage may have the worst compatibility with DRK.
Give DRK self sustain instead of trying to turn it into dps-lite. GNB feels more DPS than what ever’s going on with DRK.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Good, you are a god at the game, we get it.
Stop making everything about savage content. You know people can also, get this, not be interresting in doing high difficulty stuff ?
So it's fine that DRK is a slog in dungeons during levelling, 'cause once you have done them enough to get the high end gear that comes 2 months later you'll do enough damage to be actually good ?
That's your justification ? Why is it only DRK struggling then ?

---

Listen closely. Nobody, and I mean nobody is saying that DRK shouldn't get some sort of buff to help its survivability. We're just saying to base how strong or weak a class is off of easy content is extremely flawed (especially in this ppm scenario). The class that everyone is saying is OP is being chosen about 18% of the time in top teams for end game content (PLD is even less, 4%). Meanwhile the class everyone is saying is weak is being chosen 37% of the time (GNB the most at 41%).

WAR and PLD are the best for dungeons, but DRK and GNB are clearly the best for end game. As said earlier, DRK only needs help in dungeons but other than that (and well a potency boost for PLD), everything else is technically fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valknut

Well you can argue DRK could get 1400x4 for a PPM for shielding, but where are you going to break TBN reliably 4 times in one min

But yeah, warrior is certainly setting a new bar for what it means to be broken.

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Just simply reading the Tooltip shows it isn't doing what it's supposed to be doing.

Additional Effect: Restores HP with each weaponskill successfully delivered
Cure Potency: 400

NOT every enemy hit, Every weapons skill used.

So it should be doing 400 potency every time you press the Weaponskill for a average total of 1200 potency per Raw Intuition / Bloodwhetting cycle which isn't over powered at all.

Warrior is broken because a skill is bugged.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oextra

Listen closely. Nobody, and I mean nobody is saying that DRK shouldn't get some sort of buff to help its survivability. We're just saying to base how strong or weak a class is off of easy content is extremely flawed (especially in this ppm scenario). The class that everyone is saying is OP is being chosen about 18% of the time in top teams for end game content (PLD is even less, 4%). Meanwhile the class everyone is saying is weak is being chosen 37% of the time (GNB the most at 41%).

WAR and PLD are the best for dungeons, but DRK and GNB are clearly the best for end game. As said earlier, DRK only needs help in dungeons but other than that (and well a potency boost for PLD), everything else is technically fine.

---

My main issue with DRK isn't that much about numbers tbh, its mechanics are completely non existent and that's what worries me the most

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oextra

I'm curious in what you mean by spread so widely? It literally only does 1 thing better than other tanks. Self heal. The only other thing that it has that the other tanks don't is guaranteed direct hit crits. Even so, it's in third place damage wise. Lastly it's the simplest tank (arguably class) to play. All of this pretty much makes it impossible for it to be "spread widely".

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It's neck and neck with GNB (even slightly ahead depending on your criteria) and while this forum likes to make it out like DRK is some godly DPS powerhouse, it's barely managing a 100 per second lead. It's a little misleading to imply WAR has to pay some kind of DPS tax for having a healing factor that's completely beyond competition.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oextra

Listen closely. Nobody, and I mean nobody is saying that DRK shouldn't get some sort of buff to help its survivability. We're just saying to base how strong or weak a class is off of easy content is extremely flawed (especially in this ppm scenario). The class that everyone is saying is OP is being chosen about 18% of the time in top teams for end game content (PLD is even less, 4%). Meanwhile the class everyone is saying is weak is being chosen 37% of the time (GNB the most at 41%).

WAR and PLD are the best for dungeons, but DRK and GNB are clearly the best for end game. As said earlier, DRK only needs help in dungeons but other than that (and well a potency boost for PLD), everything else is technically fine.

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But is it fun? Is playing Dark Knight, in its current state, FUN? Because in the end, that is the question on which the answer truly matters.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

I would make the counter argument, that the vast majority of this games community, does not wish to see FFXIV turn into World of Warcraft.

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I would make the counter argument ...LOL!!!

The FF14 community just does a better job of hiding it's bad side.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xiaoki

I would make the counter argument ...LOL!!!

The FF14 community just does a better job of hiding it's bad side.

---

Yeah, no, sorry. I’ve been around the block far too many years to buy that.

This games community is nowhere near as bad as WoW. The amount of hate, outright racism, xenophobia, misogyny, and human toxicity in that game that I have seen and experienced is not something that can even remotely be considered synonymous with FFXIV.

Nor do I wish to see this game nor the classes be balanced solely upon it’s end game, as you seem to be espousing.

Yoshida himself said the following: “World first players might have a different perspective to class balance and this might cause some players to distance themselves away from some jobs. However, the goal of balance for us is so that all jobs can be balanced and used and players can have fun with the job they want to play. We want people to explore different jobs because they are different.”


End game is only one facet of their goal of balance. Not all of it, as you seem to be emphasizing. And I will take the Producer/Director of the games words on this matter over your own, any day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

Yeah, no, sorry. I’ve been around the block far too many years to buy that.

This games community is nowhere near as bad as WoW. The amount of hate, outright racism, xenophobia, misogyny, and human toxicity in that game that I have seen and experienced is not something that can even remotely be considered synonymous with FFXIV.

Nor do I wish to see this game nor the classes be balanced solely upon it’s end game, as you seem to be espousing.

Yoshida himself said the following: “World first players might have a different perspective to class balance and this might cause some players to distance themselves away from some jobs. However, the goal of balance for us is so that all jobs can be balanced and used and players can have fun with the job they want to play. We want people to explore different jobs because they are different.”


End game is only one facet of their goal of balance. Not all of it, as you seem to be emphasizing. And I will take the Producer/Director of the games words on this matter over your own, any day.

---

Take his word for it? Bruh, blood weapon isn't actually ten seconds. If he hasn't fixed something as simple as that, his word is just another opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

Yeah, no, sorry. I’ve been around the block far too many years to buy that.

This games community is nowhere near as bad as WoW. The amount of hate, outright racism, xenophobia, misogyny, and human toxicity in that game that I have seen and experienced is not something that can even remotely be considered synonymous with FFXIV.

Nor do I wish to see this game nor the classes be balanced solely upon it’s end game, as you seem to be espousing.

Yoshida himself said the following: “World first players might have a different perspective to class balance and this might cause some players to distance themselves away from some jobs. However, the goal of balance for us is so that all jobs can be balanced and used and players can have fun with the job they want to play. We want people to explore different jobs because they are different.”


End game is only one facet of their goal of balance. Not all of it, as you seem to be emphasizing. And I will take the Producer/Director of the games words on this matter over your own, any day.

---

Yeahhhh taking his word doesn't seem to hold that much merit considering how he's homogenizing everything between tanks and healers since SHB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xiaoki

Dark Knight's main issue is dungeons?

What?!

Well then, lets check FFLogs for dungeon runs. Oh, yeah, they don't log dungeons because no one cares about dungeons.

Dungeons only purpose is for Tomestones. And they quickly become trivial on any Job in the entire game with raid gear.
You know, the gear that drops from raids.
Oh ...uh ...Raids are like dungeons but instead of 4 players you have 8 players.
Also, Extreme, Savage and Ultimate difficulty raids are the only content that matters what Job you are and how well your Job performs.

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Drk has 0 issues in raids, it has the most dps. Nothing more desirable then that. Also having 8 jobs instead of 4 with the added effect of organized play can make up for any faults DRK has, of which I would say specifically in a raid setting it has very little problems. Lots of comps running DRK/DRK because in a setting where 2 healers worth of oGCDS can make up for any lack of healing/sustain the DRKS have, while also benefitting from having 2 TBNS alternating off CD

No tank has issues in raids, with the exception of PLDS dmg.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

Yeah, no, sorry. I’ve been around the block far too many years to buy that.

This games community is nowhere near as bad as WoW. The amount of hate, outright racism, xenophobia, misogyny, and human toxicity in that game that I have seen and experienced is not something that can even remotely be considered synonymous with FFXIV.

Nor do I wish to see this game nor the classes be balanced solely upon it’s end game, as you seem to be espousing.

Yoshida himself said the following: “World first players might have a different perspective to class balance and this might cause some players to distance themselves away from some jobs. However, the goal of balance for us is so that all jobs can be balanced and used and players can have fun with the job they want to play. We want people to explore different jobs because they are different.”


End game is only one facet of their goal of balance. Not all of it, as you seem to be emphasizing. And I will take the Producer/Director of the games words on this matter over your own, any day.

---

During the Shadowbringers Media Tour Yoshi-P was asked, to his face, why Living Dead was still in the game and he answered that it fit the Dark Knight's fantasy and it would stay.

Yoshi-P has done an absolute terrible job balancing the game, and that is made even more hilarious that you would bring up some nonsense PR crap from him about Job balance in a topic about how bad the Job balance is.

Keep up the good fight and keep dying on that hill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xiaoki

During the Shadowbringers Media Tour Yoshi-P was asked, to his face, why Living Dead was still in the game and he answered that it fit the Dark Knight's fantasy and it would stay.

Yoshi-P has done an absolute terrible job balancing the game, and that is made even more hilarious that you would bring up some nonsense PR crap from him about Job balance in a topic about how bad the Job balance is.

Keep up the good fight and keep dying on that hill.

---

I was not happy with his answers either. His answer on Living Dead has left me dissatisfied since Stormblood. His reply to Mr Happy in regards to Blood Weapon left me absolutely stunned, and immensely frustrated. But my reply, and using his quote, was not about the balance specifically pertaining to Drk. And you know this.

It was aimed specifically to counter your point that Drk should be balanced against End Game only. That you feel Dungeons, and by extension, other content outside of End Game, does not matter.

And while I agree that some classes have definitely missed the mark over the years in how they feel and whether they are fun to play or not, the Team has held to their philosophy in general that End Game is not the end all, be all, of their balancing goals. And in general overall, this game. The fact that it has done so well, and has only grown since the disastrous days of 1.0 which I remember all too well, upholds that.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. And I am perfectly fine with that. Whatever you end up doing in game, I wish you well.

.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

It's neck and neck with GNB (even slightly ahead depending on your criteria) and while this forum likes to make it out like DRK is some godly DPS powerhouse, it's barely managing a 100 per second lead. It's a little misleading to imply WAR has to pay some kind of DPS tax for having a healing factor that's completely beyond competition.

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WAR Zodiark Extreme is 200 behind GNB.
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...l&spec=Warrior
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...pec=Gunbreaker

WAR Hydaelyn Extreme is 100-300 behind GNB
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...l&spec=Warrior
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...pec=Gunbreaker

The list goes on. WAR will never out damage GNB unless it's a good WAR vs bad GNB. GNB is simply designed to do more damage. Just like WAR is designed to heal more.

Also nobody is saying DRK doesn't need work, however it's not in a desperate situation as people like you are implying. All it really needs is self sustain that rivals GNB and it'd be perfectly fine in all content. Anything else would be a sweet sweet much appreciated bonus.

EDIT: Ignore the original last paragraph. I reread your last sentence and misunderstood it initially. The healing factor only makes it stand out in easy content (dungeons) and specifically in wall to wall pulls. Boss fight wise, PLD shines just as brightly in dungeons. Outside of that it doesn't really matter.

It seems to me that the dev team ran out of time, it’s as simple as that. See the Monk and Summoner forums for similar complaints.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oextra

WAR Zodiark Extreme is 200 behind GNB.
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...l&spec=Warrior
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...pec=Gunbreaker

WAR Hydaelyn Extreme is 100-300 behind GNB
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...l&spec=Warrior
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...pec=Gunbreaker

The list goes on. WAR will never out damage GNB unless it's a good WAR vs bad GNB. GNB is simply designed to do more damage. Just like WAR is designed to heal more.

Also nobody is saying DRK doesn't need work, however it's not in a desperate situation as people like you are implying. All it really needs is self sustain that rivals GNB and it'd be perfectly fine in all content. Anything else would be a sweet sweet much appreciated bonus.

Lastly how are simple balance points (heal more do less damage, vice versa, etc.) misleading? That just doesn't make any sense. If WAR did the most damage, healed the most, and had the most mitigation it would truly be broken. Any tank in that scenario would be broken. So it's common sense for every class to have pros and cons.

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I actually don't think its the high end content DRK is falling behind in. Its dungeons and progression content.

WAR can literally wall to wall with nothing but 1 skill and its aoes and output a heal better than abyssal drain every 25 seconds. You don't even need shit like Repraisal/Rampart or any other blocking move.
Meanwhile DRK has to use everything in its kit to do the same and still needs its hand held by a healer through the entire thing. It feels really bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I actually don't think its the high end content DRK is falling behind in. Its dungeons and progression content.

WAR can literally wall to wall with nothing but 1 skill and its aoes and output a heal better than abyssal drain every 25 seconds. You don't even need shit like Repraisal/Rampart or any other blocking move.
Meanwhile DRK has to use everything in its kit to do the same and still needs its hand held by a healer through the entire thing. It feels really bad.

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Yeah I already acknowledged DRK needs more survivability specifically for dungeon wall to wall pulls. In fact no one is arguing against that. Also yeah WAR doesn't need mitigation for those 8 seconds but it's just as susceptible to damage as any other tank for the 17 seconds afterward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oextra

WAR Zodiark Extreme is 200 behind GNB.
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...l&spec=Warrior
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...pec=Gunbreaker

WAR Hydaelyn Extreme is 100-300 behind GNB
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...l&spec=Warrior
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...pec=Gunbreaker

The list goes on. WAR will never out damage GNB unless it's a good WAR vs bad GNB. GNB is simply designed to do more damage. Just like WAR is designed to heal more.

Also nobody is saying DRK doesn't need work, however it's not in a desperate situation as people like you are implying. All it really needs is self sustain that rivals GNB and it'd be perfectly fine in all content. Anything else would be a sweet sweet much appreciated bonus.

EDIT: Ignore the original last paragraph. I reread your last sentence and misunderstood it initially. The healing factor only makes it stand out in easy content (dungeons) and specifically in wall to wall pulls. Boss fight wise, PLD shines just as brightly in dungeons. Outside of that it doesn't really matter.

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If the top <1 percent is the only category of player that matters to you, but even for well above average ones those number start to become a lot closer.

I think a good fix for TBN would be
when shield breaks/expires grants you a regen and 50-100% parry rate for 10 seconds and call the buff Dark dance

The devs dont play their own game, it is more than obvious now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FelixFujiwara

The devs dont play their own game, it is more than obvious now.

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This is false, from what I know they just don't play tanks. But even Yoshida himself finds the time to play FFXIV and at a high level to boot. He even joins partyfinder often to help people out. (He parses high btw)
If you're looking for a game that has devs not touch it look at Blizzard.

Playing the game is good and all, but if they play only some parts of it it isn't that much better and just leads to preferential treatment.
If they don't like playing tanks and healers, just hire one or two devs who like playing those roles to design them. (and preferably, ones that like variety and not making them interchangeable)

Whoever is in charge of DRK design should be strapped to a chair and be made to play nothing but mentor roulette for 10 hours a day. The class is inherently broken and lackluster from the start.

I quit Dnk for a reason. LD was mostly that reason.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

If the top <1 percent is the only category of player that matters to you, but even for well above average ones those number start to become a lot closer.

---

You really need to think outside of yourself in situations like this. I wasn't anywhere near stating that the top 1% is all that matters. They are simply the best indicator of what's the best, or broken thing. This is how it is in any game. If you want to see what's the best or broken thing, you check out the meta. People who's main goal is to win are going to use the best items, characters, strategies, etc. Why? Because these things will greatly increase their odds of winning. So if the meta isn't supporting your "such and such is op/broken" claim, then your claim isn't as sound as you think it is.

It's funny how problems with DRK get brushed off because it's a little bit ahead in DPS overall, but the moment you flip it around and point out WAR isn't that far behind it suddenly people cherry pick data where it's actually GNB that's top DPS. And GNB isn't top DPS even in the top 1 percent, or ahead of WAR by 200.

Like do you really think the top 1% of the top 1% have so much trouble with "odds of winning" doing a few tens of thousands extra damage is making a difference?

I really think the answer is to buff self-sustain on DRK by adding some leech or heal-on-hit effects to certain abilities (possibly salted earth, or TBN-Procced-Edge of Shadow), and add a life steal effect or healing potency increase to living dead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

It's funny how problems with DRK get brushed off because it's a little bit ahead in DPS overall, but the moment you flip it around and point out WAR isn't that far behind it suddenly people cherry pick data where it's actually GNB that's top DPS. And GNB isn't top DPS even in the top 1% percent, or ahead of WAR by 200.

Like do you really think the top 1% of the top 1% have so much trouble with "odds of winning" doing a few tens of thousands extra damage is making a difference?

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It’s unfortunate, but many folks will do whatever they can to paint the narrative they wish for others to see. Objectivity be damned.

For me, it’s frustrating because many of these types of posts come off as wishing to espouse that Dark Knight is just fine. Because Damage.

Were it fine, we wouldn’t be seeing the wide breadth of complaints about Dark Knight across so many forms of Media. Yet, here we are. Mired in a reality where many are seeing the job that they have loved for so long, be turned into a glass cannon darkness laser tank, that is for a great many people, just not fun to play.

And the glass cannon bit is obviously hyperbole to an extent. And yet for me, while leveling it through Endwalker and the content therein, I could not ignore just how absolutely fragile Drk feels compared to the previous expansion. Not to mention other Tanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Android_LJ

I really think the answer is to buff self-sustain on DRK by adding some leech or heal-on-hit effects to certain abilities (possibly salted earth, or TBN-Procced-Edge of Shadow), and add a life steal effect or healing potency increase to living dead.

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It might address the survivability issue, but it'd only be a bandaid fix.
Dark Knight needs some serious rethinking about his gameplay flow and how its mechanics interract with each other.

Giving it sustain will just make it less awful, but still boring to play.

DRK is horrible to heal at the moment.