Endwalker Scholar

Haven't played it much yet, but the thing that stood out to me.. the sound of the new Broil skill. I feel its very noticeable to a irritating extent. Sounds like a horse galopping each time the spell hits. Listening to the spam of that throughout a boss fight .. not pleasant, at least on my ears. Anyone else feel like that? I know spell sfx are highly subjective, what sounds impactful and cool to one may sound annoying to another.

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Originally Posted by Chyro

Haven't played it much yet, but the thing that stood out to me.. the sound of the new Broil skill. I feel its very noticeable to a irritating extent. Sounds like a horse galopping each time the spell hits. Listening to the spam of that throughout a boss fight .. not pleasant, at least on my ears. Anyone else feel like that? I know spell sfx are highly subjective, what sounds impactful and cool to one may sound annoying to another.

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I love the sound because it feels impactful (+ cool animation). That alone fulfills the pew pew fantasy better than SGE does (because its sfx are eeeeh...) for me.

One thing that used to be okay but now feels horrible is how we apply shielding. In dungeons you want to place a shield on the tank before he reaches each mob but the cast time means you either swiftcast the spell while chasing the tank or watch mobs of enemies carefully so that your last cast in each pull is a shield for the next pull. Playing Sage and being able to run freely while shielding both in single target and aoe really drives home how constrained and immobile Scholar is. Scholar has three spells: Physick, Adlo, and Succor and none of them are as mobile as Sages Eukrasia Shields. It just feels unfair that both healers specialized in shielding are treated so differently. Sage gets a gap closer and tons of mobility in their healing kit while Scholar doesn't even get their speed buff until level 90. A cast time reduction or instant cast on the shielding for Scholar would be very welcome. At the very least Physick should be instant cast since it's the weakest tool in our kit by far so that we have an option for healing on the move that isn't restricted by Swiftcast or Aetherflow. Every healer except Scholar can heal while being mobile without some special resource. Regen, Aspected Benefic, and Eukrasia are all useable before hitting level 50. Embrace being untargetable now really doesn't compare to any of those. Astro can use Lightspeed and Essential Dignity from their first dungeon onward giving them burst healing and instant casts as a standard. Scholar (and WHM) could benefit from some serious consideration given to making parts of their kit instant. The long cast times serve absolutely no benefit when Sage and Astro are living their best life as extremely mobile better versions of the other two classes.

My biggest gripe with SCH was that we didn't have enough to do. It was monotonous, and I was hoping for the ceiling to be raised. But as expected before the expansion hit, they dumbed it down even more. I had made a comment about how the 1.5s cast time would be a gameplay nerf and boy oh boy, I didn't expect it to be THIS jarring. Running around without having to decide when and what to double-weave into my windows left me very empty. Broil Broil Broil, someone needs healing? Broil + ogcd. Can't make the gameplay anymore braindead. And because of the ED payoff, you still wouldn't expect SCH to ogcd much. Here's to hoping SCH doesn't allow for cheese strats this expansion because I would hate to get stuck on it.
The QoL updates didn't impress me much. Most of it was stuff we had before ShB anyways.

I have a lot riding on Sage staying fun past the honeymoon phase. Fingers crossed.

How are people coping with scholar death in a fight. I find it more of a panic now if Aetherflow, lucid dreaming or recitation are down and then getting selene back too but then I suppose we have dissipation.

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Originally Posted by PaulH

How are people coping with scholar death in a fight. I find it more of a panic now if Aetherflow, lucid dreaming or recitation are down and then getting selene back too but then I suppose we have dissipation.

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It doesn't feel any worse than it has done since 2.x tbh.

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

It doesn't feel any worse than it has done since 2.x tbh.

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Fair <3, ARR Scholar those were the days haha. I suppose energy drain dump with dissipation is what I found useful.

Assessing Scholar, I have gripes that boil down to a few abilities that somehow were not thought well about. And honestly I love every aspect of Summoner rework, but it ties in here.

Aetherflow, and Energy Drain. One or the other at this point- not both.

Energy Drain had its MP restoration gutted and is now purely an off global spender.

Conversely on Summoner, energy drain GIVES you stacks instead of spending them. Some may also say Summoner is lacking in things to do while you’re pressing your one attack button 6 times.

My Solution:

1) Gut Aetherflow from Scholar and roll it on to energy drain. You have to be in combat to use Aetherflow anyways.

2) Differentiate Scholar’s energy drain via trait. The arguement that would likely be had about rolling Aetherflow on to Energy Drain is that you can’t get your Aetherflow Stratagems if you’re in combat but the target disappears [such as when a boss casts ult.] This adjustment should make it so “Energy Drain” is useable perhaps even on a friendly target as “Energy Gift/Sync”.

3) Give Summoner 3 stacks. Period.

4) Lastly but this dead horse needs its ass beat back to life. Make Selene Great Again. Like the Cleric Stance of Eld, I feel from a thematic perspective, stance dancing your Fairies would contribute to a more solid tactical identity for Scholar. Selene would come out to be the fairy that adds to your Supportive/DPS rotation instead of only Broil spam. I could see this iteration of Selene getting the effect of Bane to help spread Biolysis to many targets. (But people are bad and can’t stance dance) No, just shut up. People who are bad are just bad regardless. If you can’t use a 1 second cast to switch fairies quickly, it’s not the job design that’s problematic. Scholar IMO needs Bane. As someone pointed out, you don’t have the mobility like Sage to barrier while Tank is pulling. With Scholar since you can instant cast it, you want to be applying Biolysis as much as possible before the pull settles and you need to jump on healing.

5) I just want to say that Expedience is awesome, anyone who nagged at its unveil should reconsider. Very clutch.

After playing with all the healers IMHO SCH feels the best, a few things that still bothers me and boring dps but overall i like it.

Endwanker SCH is still the same mess since ShB. The reduced cast time on dps spells is just a meme that grants the illusion of the job being faster, but makes hardly a difference in spamming Broilccoli, since youre tied to 2,5sec GCD anyway.
Speaking of which, Broilccoli IV is literally Broilccoli III (both have 295 Potency) from ShB with a new animation.

Squeenix should really ask the FFXI team for some Job design advice, it cant be that we have to deal with this mess for another 2-3 years at least until we get another useless QoL package of worthless passives and stacks on already existing Skills.

I wonder if SCH will ever be a actual SCH, instead of generic Healer #4.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Endwanker SCH is still the same mess since ShB. The reduced cast time on dps spells is just a meme that grants the illusion of the job being faster, but makes hardly a difference in spamming Broilccoli, since youre tied to 2,5sec GCD anyway.
Speaking of which, Broilccoli IV is literally Broilccoli III (both have 295 Potency) from ShB with a new animation.

Squeenix should really ask the FFXI team for some Job design advice, it cant be that we have to deal with this mess for another 2-3 years at least until we get another useless QoL package of worthless passives and stacks on already existing Skills.

I wonder if SCH will ever be a actual SCH, instead of generic Healer #4.

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SCH having a 2.5 sec GCD is the norm (as is with all healers), but having a 1.5 sec cast time means you can weave an healing oGCD per Broil without paying any DPS tax. This lets you not require using Ruin II to weave, and enables better slidecasting. The pet responsiveness has improved drastically so it's much more reactionary than before. When casting GCD shields, the shields will deploy before your cast time finishes, so you can immediately deploy them on the same GCD without waiting an extra GCD. These are solid improvements to SCH compared to its ShB iteration. These QoLs are very much needed. Endwalker SCH just feels lacking in comparison because it didn't feel like SCH got new toys to really play around with. However, Protraction and Expedient are amazing tools that make SCH's healing toolkit flesh out a lot more than before if people just use them properly.

People are complaining about 1.5 sec cast time being boring, and I do agree it's a very bland take on giving weave windows. The alternative however, if all other healers had 1.5 sec cast windows and SCH had 2.5 sec cast windows? People would be angry for days. :P

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

SCH having a 2.5 sec GCD is the norm (as is with all healers), but having a 1.5 sec cast time means you can weave an healing oGCD per Broil without paying any DPS tax. This lets you not require using Ruin II to weave, and enables better slidecasting. The pet responsiveness has improved drastically so it's much more reactionary than before. When casting GCD shields, the shields will deploy before your cast time finishes, so you can immediately deploy them on the same GCD without waiting an extra GCD. These are solid improvements to SCH compared to its ShB iteration. These QoLs are very much needed. Endwalker SCH just feels lacking in comparison because it didn't feel like SCH got new toys to really play around with. However, Protraction and Expedient are amazing tools that make SCH's healing toolkit flesh out a lot more than before if people just use them properly.

People are complaining about 1.5 sec cast time being boring, and I do agree it's a very bland take on giving weave windows. The alternative however, if all other healers had 1.5 sec cast windows and SCH had 2.5 sec cast windows? People would be angry for days. :P

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People are complaining, because ALL those changes you mentioned, arent expansion worthy changes, but a simple hotfix you would get in a X.05 Patch on a Tuesday morning under normal circumstances. The MNK hotfix in the middle of SHB was bigger than recent SCH changes.
And to add more fuel to the Fire allow me to remind you, that our Lord and Saviour Yoshi P. who saved world hunger and died for our sins, only to be reborn again, straight up said that there isnt much they could have done about SCH, ignoring countless Threads and posts of Feedback.

What exactly is an expansion worthy change? Some of the best ones I've tried yet are so just because of QoL updates, not everything is going to get fully reworked.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

People are complaining, because ALL those changes you mentioned, arent expansion worthy changes, but a simple hotfix you would get in a X.05 Patch on a Tuesday morning under normal circumstances. The MNK hotfix in the middle of SHB was bigger than recent SCH changes.
And to add more fuel to the Fire allow me to remind you, that our Lord and Saviour Yoshi P. who saved world hunger and died for our sins, only to be reborn again, straight up said that there isnt much they could have done about SCH, ignoring countless Threads and posts of Feedback.

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In those threads and posts of feedback you would often find complaints about the fairy being slow and unresponsive, Deployment being clunky, shields being weak and weaving being annoying. Let's just say "people" (=you) are complaining because "people" just want a reason to stay mad, at cost of being intellectually dishonest.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Endwanker SCH is still the same mess since ShB. The reduced cast time on dps spells is just a meme that grants the illusion of the job being faster, but makes hardly a difference in spamming Broilccoli, since youre tied to 2,5sec GCD anyway.
Speaking of which, Broilccoli IV is literally Broilccoli III (both have 295 Potency) from ShB with a new animation.

Squeenix should really ask the FFXI team for some Job design advice, it cant be that we have to deal with this mess for another 2-3 years at least until we get another useless QoL package of worthless passives and stacks on already existing Skills.

I wonder if SCH will ever be a actual SCH, instead of generic Healer #4.

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Rofl you are trolling. EW scholar is perfect. Expedient, DT, succor, protraction. They nailed it.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

What exactly is an expansion worthy change? Some of the best ones I've tried yet are so just because of QoL updates, not everything is going to get fully reworked.

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Something new that have a significant impact on the rotation would be a good start, not throwing 2 shitty traits that doesnt change it at all (gcd buff + Deplo buff is meaningless if youre optimal cause Sch does barely use any gcd), 2 new actions that doesnt interact with any part of an already messed and uncohesive kit and a bunch of hotfixes that while appreciated only make the job even more boring 1 button spam (and one of them solves a problem that wasnt there in previous expansions to begin with)

Simply giving back bane or shadowflare or even miasma would have been better new actions but instead we got Shb Sch but with 2 buttons more that you press sometimes and even less depth

So the only skill in SCH's kit that buffs healing actions somehow manages to not interact with SCH's kit because... Reasons?

Another source of mitigation that fills the gap left by Sacred Soil as something you don't have to place is bad because... Reasons, I guess.

Traits are shitty because they affect GCD healing which you obviously never, ever use because muh DPS. You are clearly already optimizing the first time you step into new content, 'prog' is a myth.

Everyone knew letting your AST cohealer do all the healing was depth. Just remove all the healing skills from SCH's kit so we can have even more depth, please.

While you are it, devs, please add a skill that is useless in the vast majority of content - single target encounters - and please, add another DoT, so we can have skills that clearly have an impact on the rotation and interact with everything else.

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Originally Posted by rewd

So the only skill in SCH's kit that buffs healing actions somehow manages to not interact with SCH's kit because... Reasons?

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Removes your fairy an integral part of the kit, gives you aetherflow and buffs the healing, yet the buff only affects to the gce heals and not the heals that can be used with the resource that skill gives and while removing the fairy removes one of the sources of free healing you have left as well as some of your most powerful heals, it only works properly as a dps gain which considering what the devs have been doing for a long time, its not their intention

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Another source of mitigation that fills the gap left by Sacred Soil as something you don't have to place is bad because... Reasons, I guess

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I didnt say it was bad, but doesnt interact with the kit in any way, its completely independant of any of the core sch mechanics and doesnt feel impactful enough to plan or alter the rotation around it, its just there.

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Traits are shitty because they affect GCD healing which you obviously never, ever use because muh DPS. You are clearly already optimizing the first time you step into new content, 'prog' is a myth.

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If you're gcd spamming on prog when you may need mp to raise people and dps because dps checks are a thing then Im sorry for your teammates, gcd heals will happen but even in prog they're not common

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Everyone knew letting your AST cohealer do all the healing was depth. Just remove all the healing skills from SCH's kit so we can have even more depth, please.

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So...just like now but with the depth of trying to only use double weaving gone. Idk what sch are you playing but it if you want to optimize you dont move more than necessary from your free healing sources and dump the rest on the sge/ast if they are your cohealer, its the same with the exception that while previously you had to think a bit on how to weave and which heals now you just weave them while still mashing 111111111 like if this were a clicker game

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While you are it, devs, please add a skill that is useless in the vast majority of content - single target encounters - and please, add another DoT, so we can have skills that clearly have an impact on the rotation and interact with everything else.

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Yes? Idk but a skill that is useful in like 90% of the content, 2/2 of the current exs seems more gameplay changing than generic gcd buff that could be a hotfix instead of a trait, let alone the dot because Sch has always been dot heavy before Shb and idk, something that I press every 30s seems way more fun than something I press maybe 2 or 3 times in a encounter and depends on the incoming damage.

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Originally Posted by rewd

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You want my Honesty? Ill give you my Honesty.

I honestly think that from a objective perspective (compared to other MMORPG's), FFXIV has, despite its large success on the MSQ and sidecontent, a very lackluster combat system that is very basic at best, and the core of the issue, is how the Healers and Tanks are designed. I am not saying here that they arent working, i am saying that they are so barebone, that theyre boring to play and ontop of that, are being neglected more and more with every expansion.

Under normal circumstances, having multiple Classes filling the same role, like Healers for example, means that they need to have distinguishable features that differ them from each other, or else, what would be the point of having multiple healers to begin with? And no, different visuals do not count in on that.

(more coming with a second post, because character Limit.)


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Originally Posted by WaxSw

Removes your fairy an integral part of the kit, [...]

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You are talking about Dissipation, I was talking about Protraction, which you said doesn't interact with any part of SCH's kit.

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I didnt say it was bad, but doesnt interact with the kit in any way, its completely independant of any of the core sch mechanics and doesnt feel impactful enough to plan or alter the rotation around it, its just there.

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You are objectively wrong and I have already stated why, so no reason to focus on this any further.

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If you're gcd spamming on prog when you may need mp to raise people and dps because dps checks are a thing then Im sorry for your teammates, gcd heals will happen but even in prog they're not common

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Now you are resorting to an argumentum ad hominem because you are trying to cover your lack of arguments with insults aimed at my skills. You are not even good at it because in your example my teamates are dying, I'm potentially using GCD heals to get them back up as my oGCDs are more than likely on cooldown and somehow it's my teammates that have to feel sorry and not the other way around. Ok.

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So...just like now but with the depth of trying to only use double weaving gone. Idk what sch are you playing but it if you want to optimize you dont move more than necessary from your free healing sources and dump the rest on the sge/ast if they are your cohealer, its the same with the exception that while previously you had to think a bit on how to weave and which heals now you just weave them while still mashing 111111111 like if this were a clicker game

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Depth: Refresh Biolysis every 30 seconds. If you have a fairy skill, use it and act like you are doing something. If you have Recitation, use it with Indomitability. If not, keep spamming Broil. Very deep, very fun. Cannot contain my enthusiasm.

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Yes? Idk but a skill that is useful in like 90% of the content, 2/2 of the current exs seems more gameplay changing than generic gcd buff that could be a hotfix instead of a trait, let alone the dot because Sch has always been dot heavy before Shb and idk, something that I press every 30s seems way more fun than something I press maybe 2 or 3 times in a encounter and depends on the incoming damage.

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As much as you really want to believe this, no. Adding Bane and/or Miasma wouldn't have a significant impact (your words) on the rotation. It would be even insulting to rotations to call anything a healer currently has or could have with just 1-2 additions a "rotation". Slightly less boring? I guess. Does it fix anything? Not even close.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Sorry for the double Post

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If we go a bit further into detail, your average Healer has arround 14-18 raw Healing Abilities, 5 basic Dps abilities and eventually a handful of fluff abilities which either serve only for the sake of increasing dps in one form of another, or in rare cases like deployment tactics, actually influence other Abilities, but mostly the former. Normally, a Healer in a MMORPG, has only HALF as much Healing Abilities which are either Raw Healing abilities, HoTs or any form of Shields, which are very often hard casted (unless its whole gimmick is about having only instant, but weak heals). The majority of the Spellkit they own are mostly utility and Dps abilities which may, or may not, include additional effects, at the expense of doing less damage (but on the upside, provide effects that compliment their Role given within the Game). And to make matters worse, the design of most Dps Jobs and ALL Tanks (DRK not as much as in 5.0) in FFXIV, actually conflict with current Healers. Said matters are:

- SMN and RDM Res Skill conflicts with the main duty of a Healer to ressurect others. A RDM can instantly res anyone with the dual cast trait, and most People only bother casting Res when Swiftcast is ready, including SMN, which are more than eager to use it for such a occasion, so that Duty is on your average Duty in most Content, taken care of.
- Tank Mitigation on the DMG department. While it should be a given that a Tank should be able to survive way longer than any DPS and Healer which is a fair point, the way how they are designed and now dmg is distributed in this game, is way out of balance. Tanks in their Current state, have insane self sustainment and mitigation effects that render the presence of a Healer almost completely unnecessary.
- DPS/Tanks being able to provide utility buffs of varying effects. While it isnt a bad thing in any regard, it falls normally under a Healers (or a DPS like BRD, DNC and eventually RDM that are by design, Supporting Roles as well) Duty to provide such effects. IF a Dps needs any utility which fall under the support category, it should only exist for the sake of itself, to only support the caster and noone else. Thats what defines a DPS Class under normal circumstances.

And more importantly, i am not here to complain for the sake of complaining, i merely give Feedback to matters i care about (mostly Healers tho) and since i played a good share of MMO's before ending up here, i might as well voice those out. I think this Game deserves it to improve even further but the Gameplay side of it is compared to the rest of its aspects, very lacking.
And what is a Game, without proper and fun Gameplay anyway?


Tl;dr: Healers need more things to do, since all the other Jobs take care of healer related duties.


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Originally Posted by rewd

You are talking about Dissipation, I was talking about Protraction, which you said doesn't interact with any part of SCH's kit.

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I didn't talk about protaction in any moment in my first message, I just said the kit as a whole in uncohesive and having a heal buff isnt nearly enough, recitation has far more interesting interactions and even that one doesnt interact with the fairy side and its an outlier

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You are objectively wrong and I have already stated why, so no reason to focus on this any further.

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No I'm not? Have you even played Sch at all? Expedient is a skill that is just there, doesnt interact with anything else from the kit and you would use it only when damage comes without thought on how to weave or its implications further than that as you keep spamming 1, to give you an example of a skill that to some extent changes the rotation of sch that would be precisely dissipation as you want to maximize the damage gains it gives, makes sch have a semi burst phase with ED weaving and due to the removal of the fairy it makes you think twice about when to use it as it gimps your free healing sources.

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Now you are resorting to an argumentum ad hominem because you are trying to cover your lack of arguments with insults aimed at my skills. You are not even good at it because in your example my teamates are dying, I'm potentially using GCD heals to get them back up as my oGCDs are more than likely on cooldown and somehow it's my teammates that have to feel sorry and not the other way around. Ok.

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First if you use GCD heals to give hp back as sch...good luck, second if your teammates are dying considering deaths in savage and ultimate is more because failed mechanics and not unavoidable damage as Sch the chances of you having a ST ogcd to use is high, especially now that that fairy gauge is only used on fey union and third if you have had to raise a teammate you've already lost 2400mp, using gcd heals only makes the mp management worse so more reason to not use gcds. I did not assume people dying I said that people may die so more reason to not use more gcd heals than strictly needed when they're alive

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Depth: Refresh Biolysis every 30 seconds. If you have a fairy skill, use it and act like you are doing something. If you have Recitation, use it with Indomitability. If not, keep spamming Broil. Very deep, very fun. Cannot contain my enthusiasm.

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Yes thats how sch is in EW, previously we also had to double weave to minimize the dps loss of ruin 2 when healing or plan around the refresh of biolysis...which is more than now

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As much as you really want to believe this, no. Adding Bane and/or Miasma wouldn't have a significant impact (your words) on the rotation. It would be even insulting to rotations to call anything a healer currently has or could have with just 1-2 additions a "rotation". Slightly less boring? I guess. Does it fix anything? Not even close.

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Having an extra dot to keep track off means we spam broil at least 2 times less per minute, which changes the rotation, not much I agree, Sch could have much more than the pitiful trash kit it has right now but you know, even if its only changing 2 gcds per minute still has more impact than any of the new traits or skills this expansion brought

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Originally Posted by Anhra

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I could tell that your issue wasn't Scholar but FFXIV's design as a whole (of which Scholar and healers in general are a consequence). While I completely agree with what you are saying, it's a bit off topic in this particular thread because people were discussing several changes that SCH got that are a result of player feedback. They don't change how Scholar ultimately plays, but it does make it feel better within the design choice they chose to go with FFXIV healing.

Initially, the only thing I really wanted was the faerie gauge cost removed from Fey Blessing because it was inconvenient when used in conjunction with Fey Union, but the QoL changes to shield application timings and fairy responsiveness made the class a lot more enjoyable than it was in ShB, even though it's still possible to ghost skills, the window in which that's likely to happen has been trimmed quite alot. Being able to single-weave without any issues has been quite nice too.

Overall I think they should get rid of the distinction between ogcd skills and gcd skills when it comes to what buffs affect what. When something says "this buffs heals you cast" if should buff anything and everything I do that heals.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

Something new that have a significant impact on the rotation would be a good start, not throwing 2 shitty traits that doesnt change it at all (gcd buff + Deplo buff is meaningless if youre optimal cause Sch does barely use any gcd), 2 new actions that doesnt interact with any part of an already messed and uncohesive kit and a bunch of hotfixes that while appreciated only make the job even more boring 1 button spam (and one of them solves a problem that wasnt there in previous expansions to begin with)

Simply giving back bane or shadowflare or even miasma would have been better new actions but instead we got Shb Sch but with 2 buttons more that you press sometimes and even less depth

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You do realize you are talking about a healer? Of course rotation is not going to change, there's no healer rotations. And they aren't going to revert back to the old style, that was an unrealistic expectation under the current design philosophy. This complaint isn't a Scholar issue, it's a healer role issue.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

You do realize you are talking about a healer? Of course rotation is not going to change, there's no healer rotations. And they aren't going to revert back to the old style, that was an unrealistic expectation under the current design philosophy. This complaint isn't a Scholar issue, it's a healer role issue.

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If there is a design that is so out of touch with how the content is being played and has been asked for changes for over 2 years it shoudnt be unrealistic to ask for devs, who so boldly claim that they play the game, to change it. Its a healer role issue as a whole I agree but that doesnt mean that what they gave is closer to button bloat than really interesting additions, Shb had the same problem of healers having very badly designed kits yet in the case of Sch they added stuff like recitation which is to some extent cohesive and interacts well with both the gcds and the aetherflow management of the job, something that can't be said of any of the EW changes unless you think protaction heal buff is a deep and interesting interaction

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

I didn't talk about protaction in any moment in my first message

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Something new that have a significant impact on the rotation would be a good start, not throwing 2 shitty traits that doesnt change it at all (gcd buff + Deplo buff is meaningless if youre optimal cause Sch does barely use any gcd), 2 new actions that doesnt interact with any part of an already messed and uncohesive kit and a bunch of hotfixes that while appreciated only make the job even more boring 1 button spam (and one of them solves a problem that wasnt there in previous expansions to begin with)

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The two new actions are Protraction and Expedient, unless SCH got new actions in EW I'm somehow unaware of.

This discussion has no purpose if you blatantly lie or just are unaware of the things you wrote.

Maybe I’m just a dumbass 10 IQ Sylphie but Protraction and Expedient seem like good skills to me…

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Originally Posted by rewd

The two new actions are Protraction and Expedient, unless SCH got new actions in EW I'm somehow unaware of.

This discussion has no purpose if you blatantly lie or just are unaware of the things you wrote.

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Protaction its only a heal buff, thats the whole interaction it has with the kit, doesnt affect aetherflow, fairy gauge or the fairy management in any way shape or form, if you think thats enough you do you but I don't
Expedient its a speed buff and damage mitigation, doesnt interact with any other part of the kit its a skill completely independant of any of the core systems of Sch

If you call those interesting interactions in a cohesive kit then I'm sorry you have such a low bar

As I said examples of good interactions, Recitation which works with the GCD and the Aetherflow system, allows for strats like prepull excog, guaranteed deployed critdlo or the use of aetherflow heals without dps cost, these are far more interesting interactions than any of the previous skills have and its not only heal buff by X%

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Originally Posted by Connor

Maybe I’m just a dumbass 10 IQ Sylphie but Protraction and Expedient seem like good skills to me…

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They're good but they are just there any other healer kit could have them instead of Sch and we woudnt even notice because they are completely external of the core systems of the job, systems that due to the design are already flawed in a job that since Shb was calling for a rework

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

They're good but they are just there any other healer kit could have them instead of Sch and we woudnt even notice because they are completely external of the core systems of the job, systems that due to the design are already flawed in a job that since Shb was calling for a rework

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That is a fair point. They would be more engaging to use if they had some meaningful interaction with some part of the jobs mechanics. Like if Expedient proc’d a fairy skill on use ( return Fey Wind plz se ), or Protraction could have reduced the amount of HP healed by Adloquium/Succor on the target but increased the shield effect (thus causing it to become protracted lol). Or increased the duration of an existing barrier, though that’d be a pain in the ass to use if the shield kept breaking before you could hit the skill lol

I mean, maybe it’s a bit harsh to say but it seems to me that the overwhelming theme of Endwalker job abilities seems to be…lazy design? It feels like the new stuff I’ve gotten for everyone is like, ‘it’s cool, but it’s not very exciting’. Or at least they’re playing it way too safe to keep things ‘balanced’. Balance is great but so is having fun

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Originally Posted by Connor

Maybe I’m just a dumbass 10 IQ Sylphie but Protraction and Expedient seem like good skills to me…

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It is not that it is a bad skill per se, but Squeenix handled out ALOT of damage mitigation tools already. Tanks have 5-6 of those (i cant die button not included btw), and literally EVERY Job has at least one or two Skills that do so as well. The only reason why they did so for Healers, is that they were the only Role who didnt had any outside of Shielding abilities.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Maybe I’m just a dumbass 10 IQ Sylphie but Protraction and Expedient seem like good skills to me…

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Well there are a few things for me on Expedient. First of all, damage reduction and sprint are two forms of utility that don't really compliment one another very well. The idea of granting your party a sprint is to give them more room for error to adjust to challenging mechanics, theoretically, meaning they will hopefully avoid those mechanics and not take any damage, thus rendering the damage reduction moot. It does almost nothing in response to unavoidable damage unless we're talking about a spread mechanic, but spread mechanics are by far one of the easiest to recognize and handle appropriately.

On the flip side, if you are taking damage where the mitigation kicks in, then the added sprint was likely either useless, or not taken advantage of by the person getting hit.

What would make more sense is if it was a regen or flat heal attached to the sprint--something that could help an injured party recover while also giving them added mobility and thus more room for error during an upcoming mechanic.

Lastly, this is just an aesthetics thing, but why is the Scholar using an ability with spell effects that are linked to faerie? That emerald-colored wind effect and the butterflies are very much a Selene/Eos thing and not a Scholar thing, and while that's not really important for gameplay, it continues to muddle what visual identity the Scholar is supposed to have. This is likely because it may have started as a faerie action and then they decided to move it to the Scholar prior to the media tour build because they wanted a raid-wide sprint to be more responsive, I suppose, but it's still quite odd.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Protraction could have reduced the amount of HP healed by Adloquium/Succor on the target but increased the shield effect (thus causing it to become protracted lol). Or increased the duration of an existing barrier, though that’d be a pain in the ass to use if the shield kept breaking before you could hit the skill lol

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You would nerf Protraction to make it do the thing it already does?

Expedient is amazing. Probably best skill of expansion you guys are wild. Scholar is fine its in a perfect place, you can weave without losing dps, requiring planning set up, AND now fairy is more responsive. I'm happy with scholar rotation being broil ED. Many EW players even raiders like me like simplicity it lets us focus more on learning the fights and having fun in general. We want to experience and clear savage stuff not try to master some unique rotation for uptime.

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Originally Posted by rewd

You would nerf Protraction to make it do the thing it already does?

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It’s just an example of the point being made not a literal suggestion lol

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Originally Posted by Connor

It’s just an example of the point being made not a literal suggestion lol

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The [wrong] point being made is that it doesn't interact with the rest of your kit or it doesn't interact in a meaningful way. You said that it would be more engaging if it could increase the shield, which is what the skill already does. So, is there a hidden point?

After having fooled around with the healers a bit more (still haven't gotten my AST leveled). SCH feels fine. It does its thing well and is efficient at it. Thing is. It's boring like all hell to play now. No brain required. Which is a far cry from what people initially gravitated towards the job for, a couple of expansions back. You basically use fairy skills in your GCD (no need to worry about what skills to doubleweave, etc), and wait for your cohealer to be out of ogcds to use your stacks. Infinite mana. Big enough heals to get you out of a tight spot. Honestly, can't make it simpler than that. As such SCH is pretty much the beginner shield healer and I expect many a veteran will move on from the role erelong.
The one thing that really sucks this expansion on SCH is the awful mobility in high-end play. Since now you desperately want to avoid ruin II

With that said, if I had to put my money on a job that needed a rework early in before the expansion. I would have said SCH. Now I feel more like WHM needs the love, definitely the worse healer by a margin.

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Originally Posted by rewd

The [wrong] point being made is that it doesn't interact with the rest of your kit or it doesn't interact in a meaningful way. You said that it would be more engaging if it could increase the shield, which is what the skill already does. So, is there a hidden point?

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You claim its a wrong yet all the arguments you have is "but it buffs the healing" without realizing that, first its a kind of interaction literally every healer has, and second is so out of touch with the kit you could literally copy paste the skill on any other healer toolkit and not only you woundnt need to adapt the way it works/cd etc but also no one would ever notice it was a Sch skill first, in fact is so out of touch it was first a War skill (thrill of battle) that just got slapped into a healer.