Punish MSQ Cutscene Skippers

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Originally Posted by AduroT

It’s easy to tell the difference between actual skipping and language cutting off like ten seconds. Plus if you did report someone incorrectly who just had a language setting different the logs would show they never disconnected so nothing should happen to them.

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I wasn't worried about the language people, I was warning the reporters. Because too many false reportings and you are the one that gets in trouble.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Newbies "get to watch the cutscenes"... but don't get to participate in any of the fights that those cutscenes lead into.

It's like watching an action movie with all the action sequences cut out.

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Lol, you call it "a fight" when everyone just butn the heck out of the boss, and healer doesnt bother to heal?

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Originally Posted by ShariusTC

Lol, you call it "a fight" when everyone just butn the heck out of the boss, and healer doesnt bother to heal?

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Fine then, "the action sequences".

They are still an integral part of the dungeon as it is intended to be experienced, and a short unbalanced battle is still better than going straight from pre-battle to post-battle cutscene. Just being part of it makes a difference.

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Originally Posted by Enla

They're bypassing the intention of the roulette and getting the rewards with no effort. As well as making the roulette less enjoyable for newbies who want to enjoy the story.

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In fairness, literally everyone in Prae and Castrum is getting rewards for close to zero effort. One or two people skipping cutscenes doesn't mean everyone else is suddenly not seeing them at all, and the fights are such an absolute joke that even if you miss them (which you won't unless like half the group skips, which I've seen happen maybe once), you aren't missing much. There are almost no mechanics that matter at all, and I think I've seen like two wipes in Castrum ever because somebody decided to pull the big pack of giants near the end or because the big pull at the beginning went sideways.

They're two horribly designed, faceroll easy dungeons with little engaging content to begin with. Half of Prae is literally just running and clicking past mobs.

I don't skip, but I really don't care if people do. Just saves me a couple of minutes and means less button mashing elevator man for ten years til he decides to monologue forever again.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

To be fair, unless you log back on, notice everyone else is still trapped in the cutscene and proceed to lay waste to the boss while they're still inside no one would even notice you got disconnected and reconnected and accidentally skipped it. That and SE can see for themselves who was engaged with the boss while others were still going through the majority of the cutscene through their own records.

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Trouble is it is also possible for a legit DC to happen too. My internet cut out in the middle of Livia's mech battle the other night, and I loaded back in literally right on top of her while everyone else was still in the cutscene. Obviously as a tank there's no way I was soloing that lmao, I think I moved her hp like 2% by myself, but luckily the cutscene was almost over anyway and everybody was able to make it in pretty quickly. :P

It only took three people to run Praetorium earlier this week. As we got to Nero one of them said skipping in chat, and then I managed to see the last ten seconds of the second Ultima fight, otherwise it was nothing but wall to wall cutscenes as the three of them killed everything.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Fine then, "the action sequences".

They are still an integral part of the dungeon as it is intended to be experienced, and a short unbalanced battle is still better than going straight from pre-battle to post-battle cutscene. Just being part of it makes a difference.

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Also the ''action sequence'' might seem like an actual fight for some new players, most who care about the story and might I say be excited to fight the bosses? I know I was super excited, but also nervous on my first time there, it isn't just skipping through. Let the new people enjoy it, you never know who is actually really interested in the story and want to experience it. Every single on in this thread has been a tiny leaf at one point, not all into the story but new anyway. Let new people enjoy the duties, being how low level or low effort!

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Originally Posted by Avidria

Trouble is it is also possible for a legit DC to happen too. My internet cut out in the middle of Livia's mech battle the other night, and I loaded back in literally right on top of her while everyone else was still in the cutscene. Obviously as a tank there's no way I was soloing that lmao, I think I moved her hp like 2% by myself, but luckily the cutscene was almost over anyway and everybody was able to make it in pretty quickly. :P

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How is that trouble though? If you have an accidental DC and log back to everyone still chilling in the cutscene just sit there and wait out the cutscene and relax. If you have a situation like what you did, just mention in chat the situation, apologize and let them know the boss isn't going to die anytime soon. If someone reports you, you have that chat log to show that hey you brought up the situation to the group, made it known you aren't going to be killing the boss and just sat there bopping her till the cutscene ended then went on with the fight, or really however you want to bring up and clarify the matter with the group. It is why SE investigates. They don't just take reports sent to them at face value and bring down their mighty hammer of ban.

Here is my thing. ALL MSQ DUNGEONS should be turned into Trust dungeons. Nobody should be FORCED to watch them nor FORCED to skip the cutscene's, period. The fights themselves are over in seconds so there is no point in whining about "missing the fight" because you aren't missing anything.

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Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

The fights themselves are over in seconds so there is no point in whining about "missing the fight" because you aren't missing anything.

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Yes. You. Are.

Or rather, the new player is because you made the decision about what they should care about or not.

It doesn't matter if it's over in seconds. They are missing those seconds. Those seconds are a segment of the dungeon that join event A to event C to event F. They are part of the story.

Yes it would be better for everyone if they were solo trust missions, but they aren't. So don't make it even worse.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Yes. You. Are.

Or rather, the new player is because you made the decision about what they should care about or not.

It doesn't matter if it's over in seconds. They are missing those seconds. Those seconds are a segment of the dungeon that join event A to event C to event F. They are part of the story.

Yes it would be better for everyone if they were solo trust missions, but they aren't. So don't make it even worse.

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It's not about the new players; it is only about the time they can save for themselves and they will use as many mental gymnastics as possible to make their stance justifiable.

I don't really understand how it saves time either.

So you skip the cutscene, and instead spend that time fighting the boss alone or with a few other people. So when the cutscene ends the boss is almost dead, instead of the usual 12 seconds it would've taken the whole raid to kill him together. So, you risked your account to save maybe 10 seconds?

It's dumb, and it screws new players out of experiencing the fight, however insignificant those fights are nowadays.

I don't think people do it to save time; they do it because they think it's edgy and impressive to break the encounter.

Skipping can get you banned. It's clearly an exploit. And the rewards for msq roulette were inflated to match the time it now takes to complete. If you don't want to deal with the cutscenes, just don't queue into it. You don't have to compulsively do every roulette every day. If you don't have the time or just don't feel like waiting through them, do something else. I've never actually seen people doing this, so I'm not sure how widespread this actually is, but I wouldn't blame anyone for reporting this when it happens.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I don't really understand how it saves time either.

So you skip the cutscene, and instead spend that time fighting the boss alone or with a few other people. So when the cutscene ends the boss is almost dead, instead of the usual 12 seconds it would've taken the whole raid to kill him together. So, you risked your account to save maybe 10 seconds?

It's dumb, and it screws new players out of experiencing the fight, however insignificant those fights are nowadays.

I don't think people do it to save time; they do it because they think it's edgy and impressive to break the encounter.

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Nah, they can save a few minutes doing it with a few people on board. They can skip a scene, beat the boss, and have the next scene started before you’ve finished the first. They’ll of course skip that scene as well. You’ll watch the first scene, and it’ll start right into the next scene when it ends. Meanwhile they’ll be a fight or two ahead. The three I encountered doing it beat Lahabrah before his cutscene ended, so they saved themselves a whole couple minutes there.

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It is a solution. I am talking about the people who want to emote spam and dont know how to turn it off (and would) and are disrupting others.

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Ok, now I'm misunderstanding you.

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Originally Posted by AduroT

Nah, they can save a few minutes doing it with a few people on board. They can skip a scene, beat the boss, and have the next scene started before you’ve finished the first. They’ll of course skip that scene as well. You’ll watch the first scene, and it’ll start right into the next scene when it ends. Meanwhile they’ll be a fight or two ahead. The three I encountered doing it beat Lahabrah before his cutscene ended, so they saved themselves a whole couple minutes there.

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If you queued up with friends, are good at the game and have a plan, sure, but that's honestly not how I've ever seen it pan out. I don't see people skip very often, but the few times I did they were still fighting the boss when the cutscene ended; the boss fights take exponentially longer without the majority of the raid being involved.

Most of the time it seems pointless, and I feel like if it's reported it would be pretty easy to confirm. All the GMs would have to do is look at the combat logs.

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Originally Posted by QooEr

watching a cutscene is not "effort". if anything skipping them is more effort. newbies get to watch the cutscenes too. gotta love to report people for stuff that affects literally nobody

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going to go out on a limb and say the reporting is aimed at those that skipped and pull. I ran into like a hand full of players that did that. still, it's an exploit and it's reportable and it's annoying.

I've had friends who have had computer and connection issues many times during the MSQ and none of them have ever been dropped back in right on top of the boss and forced to fight. If you do DC and come back in then why not wait for the rest of your team? It's not costing you any extra time than what you agreed to by choosing the MSQ and makes the fights go faster anyway. But it is easy to tell that it was deliberate for two reasons, the first being they engage the boss and the second is that it doesn't happen just for one battle and only happens during the boss battles and never during the trash mobs you have to take care of on the way.

They give you increased rewards to offset the time commitment that you agreed to by choosing to run the MSQ roulette. If you don't agree with that and there is nothing wrong with that but we all play this game together and I would ask you to not queue up for the MSQ then and ruin it for others. No need to exploit the game. Please, go get your rewards elsewhere.

Maybe SE should make it so that if you disconnect (intentionally or not) and log back in, you'll load just outside the boss arena with the barrier up (it won't come down until everyone finish watching CS).

It saves the group time depending on how many people skip. We cannot deny this fact, now we can go back and forth if it is right or wrong. Though the time factor is indeed fact depending on the amount and roles that skip.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

How is that trouble though? If you have an accidental DC and log back to everyone still chilling in the cutscene just sit there and wait out the cutscene and relax. If you have a situation like what you did, just mention in chat the situation, apologize and let them know the boss isn't going to die anytime soon. If someone reports you, you have that chat log to show that hey you brought up the situation to the group, made it known you aren't going to be killing the boss and just sat there bopping her till the cutscene ended then went on with the fight, or really however you want to bring up and clarify the matter with the group. It is why SE investigates. They don't just take reports sent to them at face value and bring down their mighty hammer of ban.

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Could be trouble if enough people decided to report. Probably wouldn't actually result in an action, but my point is simply that it isn't always someone trying to skip on purpose.

Dont. Que. For. It. If you dont like the Cutscenes. Dont skip it, dont push em. Its already a joke some ppl finish earlier due system differences...

The fact ppl defend that just makes me so frustrated....

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Dont. Que. For. It. If you dont like the Cutscenes. Dont skip it, dont push em. Its already a joke some ppl finish earlier due system differences...

The fact ppl defend that just makes me so frustrated....

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I mean why not queue for it when we can queue for it and skip the cut scenes. It is quick and easy exp/tomes. I mean you can say it is wrong and that is why one should not queue for it, but at the end of the day what people view as wrong differs so does not seem like a solid reason to not queue for it. Could say it is ruining the experience for others, but that also differs from person to person.

In the end people like low effort quick exp/tomes MSQ while skipping cut scenes is just that.

I think skipping the cut scenes should be punishable by death. No really..../what?

Grant invulnerability when viewing cutscenes.

Or limit the boss aoe to within the room.

How often it is that the boss aoe kills your character while in cutscene or loading.

Bosses in all instances should all be immune to damage if anyone is in a cutscene. It would only significantly affect like three other instances that I can think of anyway (Toto-rak and Stone Vigil's final bosses, Battle in the Big Keep when Gilgamesh runs off to transform) since most boss cutscenes are less than half a minute.

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Grant invulnerability when viewing cutscenes.

Or limit the boss aoe to within the room.

How often it is that the boss aoe kills your character while in cutscene or loading.

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Uhh, we DO have invulnerability when viewing cutscenes. You could clearly see this at the very start of Castrum Meridianum, particularly back when we didn't have forced cutscenes -- if you skipped the searchlight cutscene at the start and the person that gathered all the mobs did not, you can see the mobs trying to wail on that person ineffectively.

If you get something targeted at you just as you're coming out of the cutscene though, then yeah, you can still be unavoidably hit. Getting killed during a cutscene though should never happen.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I mean why not queue for it when we can queue for it and skip the cut scenes. It is quick and easy exp/tomes. I mean you can say it is wrong and that is why one should not queue for it, but at the end of the day what people view as wrong differs so does not seem like a solid reason to not queue for it. Could say it is ruining the experience for others, but that also differs from person to person.

In the end people like low effort quick exp/tomes MSQ while skipping cut scenes is just that.

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This way of thinking is why we can't have nice things.

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Originally Posted by Fland

This way of thinking is why we can't have nice things.

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Yes. And its the mindset of all the cheaters and hackers and stuff.... there are 1000 other things to do, you dont ahve to do and manipulate that one thing >_>

They also didn't "have" to force cutscenes down everyone's throats, but hey.

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Originally Posted by Awha

It saves the group time depending on how many people skip. We cannot deny this fact, now we can go back and forth if it is right or wrong. Though the time factor is indeed fact depending on the amount and roles that skip.

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No, it is wrong. There is no grey area here. The game developers have designed it to run a certain way. You are using an exploit to get by that. Stop lying and saying that it is about helping people by making it faster. The only one you care about is how long it takes YOU to get your reward.

So let's go over some things here.

1. Apparently cut-scene skipping wastes people's time.
2. It's an "Exploit".
3. It ruins the game.

Ok, so let's dive into this a little more and elaborate.

1. No, it doesn't waste time. Clearing a dungeon faster saves time. Don't know how this isn't common sense.
2. An exploit is something you do to "Benefit" in an unfair way particularly for that person. Seeing as how this so called "Exploit" clears the dungeon faster for "everybody" and everyone still get's their 200 tomes, i don't see this as an exploit. SE may, but in all technicality, not really. Also, if this particular problem was addressed by SE in an article or live letter stating that it is a bannable offense, please link it. I mean, you can't add a auto-skip cut-scene option in the options then complain about only MSQ cut-scenes being skipped by simply logging out. They made it 200 tomes because of the cut-scenes. If they made cut-scenes skippable and made it 100 tomes again, i wouldn't care.
3. It ruins the game how so? It doesn't. It ruins a new players experience of the game. Not the game itself.

In conclusion, this "Exploit" should not be used in order to respect the new players experience of the game. However, for veteran players or players in general who have cleared multiple times, you really shouldn't be complaining. You've watched the cut-scenes thousands of times and TBH, you really shouldn't care at all unless you are a white night. If you really wan't to watch those cut-scenes so badly every time, go watch them on youtube or in the inn.

I'm not encouraging people to skip. I just don't see it as a big issue as other people claim it to be. And i definitely don't see it as a "Exploit". A prime example of an actual exploit is something like item duping. The latter will disagree, but hey, just my opinion.

The problem with reporting someone who is exploiting is that you can't during cutscene or battle, so if they are speed running it, you basically have to look them up using the Social menu unless they typed something in chat or you remember their name verbatim.

A fix for this would be to let fully pre-formed parties skip cutscenes. It wouldn't take that much from the pool since very few people will wait for a 8 man party finder to fill (FCs already do everything with preformed parties anyway whenever possible) and it would make less incentive to use the exploit when there's already a legitimate work-around. (Plus encouraging people to use uue PF for its intended purpose instead of an ad board). They could also make it so that returners and sprouts in the party would activate the no-cutscene skip but I can see that leading to a lot of unscrupulous kicks.

At this point, you can't even skip cutscenes if you do it unsynced which is really silly when you think about it. It been fun getting some of our returning members and their alts throught either of those duties. :\

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Originally Posted by Tchaktuli

No, it is wrong. There is no grey area here. The game developers have designed it to run a certain way. You are using an exploit to get by that. Stop lying and saying that it is about helping people by making it faster. The only one you care about is how long it takes YOU to get your reward.

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Well I mean if people skip and I skip I am helping people by making it go faster. Though let us look at it this way. Say if SE makes it so cut scenes cannot be skipped no matter what. People like we have other options to get tomes and exp, but what about those that need to clear that dungeon? Cannot say for certain but can we say for certain the queue times would not increase thus objectively leading to a negative impact on new players because they would have to wait longer in queue?

Those that use it for exp or tomes can move on to something else, but those who need it cannot. It is wrong by your standards but not mine.

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

The problem with reporting someone who is exploiting is that you can't during cutscene or battle, so if they are speed running it, you basically have to look them up using the Social menu unless they typed something in chat or you remember their name verbatim.

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Social -> Contacts -> Handy list of the people you ran the most recent instances with including job and instance.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Well I mean if people skip and I skip I am helping people by making it go faster. Though let us look at it this way. Say if SE makes it so cut scenes cannot be skipped no matter what. People like we have other options to get tomes and exp, but what about those that need to clear that dungeon? Cannot say for certain but can we say for certain the queue times would not increase thus objectively leading to a negative impact on new players because they would have to wait longer in queue?

Those that use it for exp or tomes can move on to something else, but those who need it cannot. It is wrong by your standards but not mine.

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The targeted veteran players from the beginning are the ones who actually want to spend extra time for extra tomes and exp. Those players are the ones SE is expecting to help the new players queue. If SE made it so it can't be exploited no matter what, such as putting barrier around players or entrance to boss arena during CS watching, then those players won't be affected because they do want to spend extra time (while watching netflix or whatever). They will still queue and new players can still clear them.

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Originally Posted by Fland

The targeted veteran players from the beginning are the ones who actually want to spend extra time for extra tomes and exp. Those players are the ones SE is expecting to help the new players queue. If SE made it so it can't be exploited no matter what, such as putting barrier around players or entrance to boss arena during CS watching, then those players won't be affected because they do want to spend extra time (while watching netflix or whatever). They will still queue and new players can still clear them.

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That may be the, but also may not. If I was a new player I would not want to risk having longer queue times. Dealt with long queue times in TOR it was painful. Though as I mentioned I cannot say for certain if queue times would ne negatively impacted or not just something I think that should be considered.

All I can do is go based off my own personal experience and not sure if it is because I initiate but normally I end up in groups where 3 or 4 others also end up skipping, sometimes even 6.

In the end I would be okay if they made CS unskippable since I am personally curious on what impact it would have on queue times.

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Originally Posted by GeminiReed

Social -> Contacts -> Handy list of the people you ran the most recent instances with including job and instance.

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I play high end PC with SSD while also having a decent connection, to PS4 players and low end PC players I must look like a hack god.

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Originally Posted by Gula

I play high end PC with SSD while also having a decent connection, to PS4 players and low end PC players I must look like a hack god.

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As someone who plays on PS4 with an SSD, I load faster than everyone I've met as well. I know them feels. WE ARE GOD'S AMONGST MORTALS!

But seriously, this topic (the OP's) seems like a very Karen type of thing to do.

It doesn't matter how those CS skipping players impacting the queue. If they'd add the feature to prevent CS skipping from progressing the instance, then that would be for the sake of new players (the target of this roulette). How that affect the CS skipping players experience or how they wouldn't queue as a result is irrelevant since they are not the target of the roulette in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

As someone who plays on PS4 with an SSD, I load faster than everyone I've met as well. I know them feels. WE ARE GOD'S AMONGST MORTALS!

But seriously, this topic (the OP's) seems like a very Karen type of thing to do.

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To be fair there's a huge difference between loading in 10-20 seconds before hand and the fight text for both Gaius and Nero literally playing across the screen for the entirety of both of their cutscenes. If it's the former very few people are going to care myself included. If it's the latter and I have actually been in a lobby where this happened throughout the entire run while a newbie was present, then yes I'm reporting it. Because there's nothing more distracting while trying to watch the story play out than having Gaius' attack speech bubbles slam constantly across the screen.

All that said I do like the idea of a 'jail' locking players to the starting area until the cutscene is over as it would require the least amount of effort in terms of 'fixes'. However if the dev's can shoot it, I'd much prefer these become solo instances at this point since the trust system is so robust now.