MSQ cutscene skipping against TOS?

I think they should let us skip the cutscenes if everyone in the party already did the dungeon

But then you would not get the roulette rewards, so there would be no point in skipping anything.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

But then you would not get the roulette rewards, so there would be no point in skipping anything.

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For the event

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

So what if someone legitimately d/cs during these cutscenes? They're gonna get banned for that too?


Unless people are incredibly stupid and say something like "I'm going to force d/c now so that I can get through this dungeon faster, nyah nyah" before they do it, they cannot 100% verify this sort of thing.

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There's hardly a Problem with one dc. But as there are multiple cutscenes disconnecting multiple times would seem rather shady

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Originally Posted by MPK

For the event

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Only reason the event is giving so many tomes is /because/ it's long. Take that away, the reward also gets nerfed. You could complete those dungeons sync'd in 15-30 minutes back in ARR. Now? You could probably get through in much less given how much those bosses melt. It'd be worth barely any tomes if they allowed us to skip the cutscenes.

You either get a short dungeon with barely any experience/rewards or a long dungeon with a good chunk of experience/rewards. You cannot have both.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

So what if someone legitimately d/cs during these cutscenes? They're gonna get banned for that too?

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As others have said, it would be about the pattern of behaviour. If it happens randomly, it's probably accidental. If it happens at the start of every long cutscene, it's probably intentional.

It would also be about how the person acts once they get back. A genuinely disconnected player who returns to find everyone else still in the cutscene can stand there and sort out their inventory or something until the others are finished. (It's what we used to be able to do if we had to wait for someone voluntarily.)

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Originally Posted by PvpDRG

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I still would like to have heard the words from the houses mouth
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The devs changed it so that they cannot be skipped.
It doesn't get any higher up than that.


The devs say they are not to be skipped, full stop.

Any method to do otherwise goes directly against the intentions of the dev team.

While I agree with those who say "It's reportable offense" because it is...
I say so go on ahead and do it.
If I caught you doing it, I'll report you
then you can tell us first hand. It's an exploit.
No way around it, sorry. The whole point of the MSQ
is for newbies to get through it otherwise no one else would do.
Your reward for it is a hefty change of EXP. Don't wanna wait? Don't run it.

If you had to come on the forums and ask about something like this
and are worried about your account then probably it's not intended to be that way.

Anyone got any solid proof that this is forbidden/ban-able?
Like any post from SE or any screenshot with a GM saying confirming it?

Since so far we only got assumptions based on TOS.
The same TOS that forbids RMT/botting/3rd party programs etc. :)

So till some solid proof is posted we cant know if CS skipping is banable or they turn a blind eye like they do on other offences. :)

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Originally Posted by PvpDRG

I'm upset yes. When theres things in the game that people do such as "selling clears" "Selling plots" "Breaking fakes" "Using third party programs for dps on streaming sites that GM's can clearly see" and many more, that are left unchecked, it makes me wonder what I can and can't do because clearly some things are in a grey area where others and black and white. I know the deal with housing but it still happens every single day and theres nothing done about it. People get things because they're rich IRL and it's ultra un fair and it's a huge part of the game. I'd love to own a large plot and have fun with it but I can't because you have people selling them for 500 times the price.

All I wanted was to find out if I can or can't do this with MSQ and in the topic I brought up points that argue the reasoning given but i'm just shot down. Why is it such a bad thing when people can pick to not waste 55 minutes and enjoy the MSQ. If they really want to, they can skip it too. It's no diffident from someone buying a skip potion on the mog station where others can't because they can't afford one.

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People have already told that it's against ToS. Your reasoning is invalid and at the end of the day you and everyone else are guests on SE servers. Their house, their rules. Why did I quote this particular post and not the first one? Because over time, peoples true motives often come out once they see people not validating their reasoning; case in point.

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Originally Posted by Saintly

Anyone got any solid proof that this is forbidden/ban-able?
Like any post from SE or any screenshot with a GM saying confirming it?

Since so far we only got assumptions based on TOS.
The same TOS that forbids RMT/botting/3rd party programs etc. :)

So till some solid proof is posted we cant know if CS skipping is banable or they turn a blind eye like they do on other offences. :)

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Well there is the post they make every few days of all the people they suspended and such. https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...344bd94712126e

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Real money trading (RMT) and other illicit activities upset the balance of the game and, as such, are prohibited under the Terms of Service.

Because we have confirmed the existence of players who are engaging in these illicit activities, we have taken the actions listed below.

Time Period: Sep. 19, 2019 to Sep. 25, 2019

・Participation in RMT/prohibited activities
　・Accounts terminated: 6,130
　・Accounts temporarily suspended: 19
・Botting activity (Using any number of third party tools that allow for automation)
　・Accounts terminated: 4
　・Accounts temporarily suspended: 24
・RMT advertising
　・Accounts terminated: 6,482

Players who discover any confirmed cheats should, under no circumstances, exploit or disseminate such information. Instead, we ask that players file a report by using the in-game command [System Menu] -> [Support Desk] -> [Contact Us] -> [Report Cheating].

In addition, any witnessed RMT advertisement can be reported by right clicking the character name in the chat log and selecting the menu [Report] -> [Report RMT Activity].
The report will be processed automatically, and if determined to fall under RMT advertising, the reported character's comments will be restricted.

We will continue to take stringent disciplinary action against any accounts with confirmed involvement in RMT/illicit activity; players should take care to steer clear of any activity that violates the Terms of Service.

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Not sure why they even force you to watch them when can go to a inn anytime and watch them there. If SE wants to everything could be worded and made against TOS. What gets me they still force you to watch them even if run it undersized.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Not sure why they even force you to watch them when can go to a inn anytime and watch them there. If SE wants to everything could be worded and made against TOS. What gets me they still force you to watch them even if run it undersized.

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Some of them can't be. The Gaius cutscene for example wasn't in the inn way back when this was implemented. Not to mention it's the culmination of the story for ARR. While I have a lot of issues with ARR, there are a lot of people who do want to enjoy what is essentially the final boss run of that particular storyline. Something that is cut a touch short if they're forced to go and watch at an inn instead. It's like asking someone who is at the end of FF7 to just skip through the entirety of the North Crater and watch the cutscenes on youtube instead. A /lot/ gets lost when you watch them after the fact.

Also, again, no one did MSQ roulette before they implemented the increased rewards. It was a dead roulette. And it's going to be a dead roulette again if they remove the restrictions and lower the rewards accordingly. I will agree that if you enter it from PF/under sized you should be able to skip the cutscenes /but/ all the rewards should be negated if you do.

Doing a quick player search of players between level 1 and 50 of the job blm or thm will show that the TOS isnt being enforced. So Violate the TOS at your own risk. I have reported Thousands of bots and cheaters, hackers, teleporters, ect. Never have i seen them banned. Happy cheating

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Originally Posted by Justadude

Doing a quick player search of players between level 1 and 50 of the job blm or thm will show that the TOS isnt being enforced. So Violate the TOS at your own risk. I have reported Thousands of bots and cheaters, hackers, teleporters, ect. Never have i seen them banned. Happy cheating

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I doubt that they just don't care. Their task force is just laughably small, which has been confirmed before by the devs themselves, so for all the people they catch...twice or triple that number probably slip through. The ToS should still be followed regardless.

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Originally Posted by WrenElessedil

Yes, it is against the rules. It's an exploit. It had to be made this way because people were jerks and wouldn't stop harassing people new to the duties.

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It was going both ways (the trolling anyways) so now we get stuck with the latter. I really wish they just had an option like Unsync -- Check this box to not skip story or something along the lines. On the plus side, pvp is bustling again heheh

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Originally Posted by PvpDRG

But there is no personal gain or disadvantage to someone else. They CAN do it if they wanted to. They can also not do it if they don't want to. To do the skip is as simple as counting 1,2,3. It's not some ground breaking bug.

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The personal gain is you get to skip unskippable cutscenes. The disadvantage for others is you kill the boss long before they get out of them so they don't get to do the fight. I'll be honest, Ive seen the cutscene so many times, I just watch tv and AF until I hear some fighting lol

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I doubt that they just don't care. Their task force is just laughably small, which has been confirmed before by the devs themselves, so for all the people they catch...twice or triple that number probably slip through. The ToS should still be followed regardless.

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if the task force is that small and SE confirmed such a thing then their TOS is void. If they refuse to take appropriate steps to enforce their TOS, that by law invalidates the TOS.

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Originally Posted by Justadude

if the task force is that small and SE confirmed such a thing then their TOS is void. If they refuse to take appropriate steps to enforce their TOS, that by law invalidates the TOS.

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It doesn't invalidate anything. The rules are still in place that people agreed to follow when they started playing the game.

I dont know what's the problem, doing msq praetorium is really the time to chill (watching youtube, tv, netflix) while gaining a lot of exp for me. Not castrum by the way, that place is too hectic and with shorter cutscenes.

I fold laundry and make snacks during Praetorium. :D

You were quoted the specific segment of the TOS that skipping the cutscenes violates early on in the thread. You won't receive a reply from Square Enix staff here. Arguing your point in an attempt to have others players, bound by the same rules, justify your decision is just... odd, honestly?

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If someone legitimately d/cs, they will typically be a few minutes getting back because the game has to officially log them out first before they can log back in. If someone is skipping, they will typically go offline at all too convenient times and come back. They will also hit the ground running and rush ahead. If it happens one time, no harm no foul.

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I don't trust people investigating these sorts of happenings after the fact to be able to tell the difference, tbh

There is also this which was added to the revised ToS back in Feb.

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◆Obstruction of play
"Obstruction of play" means all behaviour in general that obstructs another person's game play. Below is a non-exhaustive list of examples of obstruction of play:

・Spamming
This means using chat (including Quick Chat and Emote) to obstruct another person's conversation, or obstruct the use of mog letters, etc., for example, by sending an excessive number of unnecessary items in mog letters, etc. Even if obstruction was not the objective of the behaviour, it may be deemed a violation if another player is actually obstructed by the behaviour.

・Obstructing transit/progress
This means obstructive behaviour such as group blocking of passages or facilities along which many players pass or obstructing another person's game play progress, for example by overlapping an important NPC deliberately for a long time.

・Improper expulsion voting
This means excluding another person by manipulation of expulsion voting.

・Intentional leaving or disconnection
This means obstructing another person's game play by intentionally leaving the game or disconnecting from the server.

・Other obstruction of play
This means all other behaviour that deliberately obstructs another person's game play by some means.

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Revised ToS

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Not sure why they even force you to watch them when can go to a inn anytime and watch them there. If SE wants to everything could be worded and made against TOS. What gets me they still force you to watch them even if run it undersized.

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I think people lose sight of the fact that this now-tedious routine is the grand finale of a story, for those playing it for the first time, and you can't simply get the same experience by watching the cutscenes at the inn.

On top of seriously affecting the enjoyment of the dungeon itself, there's no chance to go to an inn and catch up before you proceed to the next step of the story. You exit the dungeon and go straight into the cutscenes of escaping the castrum, the celebratory ceremony afterwards, and an unreplayable in-game section where everyone welcomes you back and congratulates you.

If forced to skip cutscenes during the dungeon, these scenes are out of order and the flow of the story is lost. It's like someone forced you to fast-forward over the climax of a movie, made you watch the final scene after, and said "it doesn't matter, you can watch the rest on YouTube". It's not going to be the same as simply taking in the whole thing as intended.

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Originally Posted by PvpDRG

it feels like a punishment having to sit though the 55 minutes of cutscenes.

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Then don't do it.

FWIW, there are more efficient ways to gain experience than the MSQ in terms of XP per hour...they just aren't as low effort as the MSQ Roulette.

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Originally Posted by Chie_M

I fold laundry and make snacks during Praetorium. :D

You were quoted the specific segment of the TOS that skipping the cutscenes violates early on in the thread. You won't receive a reply from Square Enix staff here. Arguing your point in an attempt to have others players, bound by the same rules, justify your decision is just... odd, honestly?

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It's pretty obvious they've decided what they want to do and weren't actually looking for an answer, just validation.


OP: You have been warned several times in this thread NOT to do it. Your grounds for claiming ignorance of the rule or it's possible repercussions are gone. Exploit mechanics at your own risk. We aren't judging you morally, we are all simply stating facts:
You can and likely will be reported and banned for exploiting in this particular manner.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

So what if someone legitimately d/cs during these cutscenes? They're gonna get banned for that too?


Unless people are incredibly stupid and say something like "I'm going to force d/c now so that I can get through this dungeon faster, nyah nyah" before they do it, they cannot 100% verify this sort of thing.

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^

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Originally Posted by Saintly

Anyone got any solid proof that this is forbidden/ban-able?
Like any post from SE or any screenshot with a GM saying confirming it?

Since so far we only got assumptions based on TOS.
The same TOS that forbids RMT/botting/3rd party programs etc. :)

So till some solid proof is posted we cant know if CS skipping is banable or they turn a blind eye like they do on other offences. :)

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If it's against the ToS, if SE has proof (mostly chat logs/admission of guilt) and if someone reports it, you can get in trouble. About the only way to get in trouble for skipping the cutscenes when all are in agreement would be for SE to go out of their way to check for fishy runs. If they did that, they would only issue temp bans or warnings, but it would raise questions as to why other, more disruptive activities are allowed.

Based on previous actions, if SE feels that too many are doing it they'll likely issue a warning on the lodestone before handing out any punishments.

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You can and likely will be reported and banned for exploiting in this particular manner.

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After people calling for punishment for people putting their party in the wrong PF category, or equipping lower level gear when queueing up for a duty, I'm already looking forward to the day where they'll be coming for you when your router disconnects at the wrong time. Brave new world :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

After people calling for punishment for people putting their party in the wrong PF category, or equipping lower level gear when queueing up for a duty, I'm already looking forward to the day where they'll be coming for you when your router disconnects at the wrong time. Brave new world :rolleyes:

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This was already discussed earlier. There's a difference between random disconnects and a pattern of someone dropping out at the start of every long cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

This was already discussed earlier. There's a difference between random disconnects and a pattern of someone dropping out at the start of every long cutscene.

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Idk, I see plenty of people who get DC'ed every couple of minutes whenever their ISP is having hiccups. So who is going to judge the alleged "pattern"?

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Idk, I see plenty of people who get DC'ed every couple of minutes whenever their ISP is having hiccups. So who is going to judge the alleged "pattern"?

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If you DC every time a cutscene comes up (every single time) and once it's over all the players always see YOU running ahead/fighting but you don't drop connection ever during a fight, you're probably doing it on purpose.

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Idk, I see plenty of people who get DC'ed every couple of minutes whenever their ISP is having hiccups. So who is going to judge the alleged "pattern"?

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The judge is the GM. The trigger is a report from another player. Just like every other single report, the other player also needs compelling evidence that there is a deliberate breach of the ToS.

It has already been established that when someone genuinely disconnects, they have to wait for the server to recognise they've been logged out and then join a queue. I suspect people who use this exploit are bypassing the server delay.

As such, people who genuinely disconnect during these dungeons generally wait til people finish the cutscene anyway because there really isn't a time advantage in going alone.

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Originally Posted by JowyAtreides

The judge is the GM. The trigger is a report from another player. Just like every other single report, the other player also needs compelling evidence that there is a deliberate breach of the ToS.

It has already been established that when someone genuinely disconnects, they have to wait for the server to recognise they've been logged out and then join a queue. I suspect people who use this exploit are bypassing the server delay.

As such, people who genuinely disconnect during these dungeons generally wait til people finish the cutscene anyway because there really isn't a time advantage in going alone.

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What's with people using the Japanese client an thus getting out of cutscenes earlier?

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

What's with people using the Japanese client an thus getting out of cutscenes earlier?

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Audio is shorter, however the immediate next cutscenes are actually longer in japanese and they will exit later than everyone else.

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It has already been established that when someone genuinely disconnects, they have to wait for the server to recognise they've been logged out and then join a queue. I suspect people who use this exploit are bypassing the server delay.

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Idk, I've had "genuine disconnects" with and without that relog delay. I don't think that's a good means of measurement

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Idk, I've had "genuine disconnects" with and without that relog delay. I don't think that's a good means of measurement

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People asking for measures that will eventually backfire on themelves, and when then happens are totally stumped. Imagine getting banned for disconnects. Does that sound like a good idea? lol

I wouldn't risk my account for something like that, SE made the Scenes unskippable for a reason. If they wanted us to be able skip this stuff they simply would take the change back. So without knowing whats in the TOS about that i would say its an illegal activity shorten things in a way that is not intended. If you don't have the time doing a full Preta run for some free xp than just leave the group.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Idk, I've had "genuine disconnects" with and without that relog delay. I don't think that's a good means of measurement

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Even in genuine disconnect scenarios, the easiest way for people not to assume you're doing it intentionally is to just wait till they're all out of cutscenes.

Doubt the new players or the people who like the cutscenes will care until you start pulling bosses. The outrage was over people's experiences getting ruined, so long as you don't ruin people's experiences nothing bad should come to you. and even if someone was dumb enough to report you in that scenario it'd be easy for the GM to see you never pulled the boss, that it was non-malevolent intent and just genuine D/C.

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Originally Posted by MariaArvana

Even in genuine disconnect scenarios, the easiest way for people not to assume you're doing it intentionally is to just wait till they're all out of cutscenes.

Doubt the new players or the people who like the cutscenes will care until you start pulling bosses. The outrage was over people's experiences getting ruined, so long as you don't ruin people's experiences nothing bad should come to you. and even if someone was dumb enough to report you in that scenario it'd be easy for the GM to see you never pulled the boss, that it was non-malevolent intent and just genuine D/C.

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Yep, exactly.

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Originally Posted by MariaArvana

Even in genuine disconnect scenarios, the easiest way for people not to assume you're doing it intentionally is to just wait till they're all out of cutscenes.

Doubt the new players or the people who like the cutscenes will care until you start pulling bosses. The outrage was over people's experiences getting ruined, so long as you don't ruin people's experiences nothing bad should come to you. and even if someone was dumb enough to report you in that scenario it'd be easy for the GM to see you never pulled the boss, that it was non-malevolent intent and just genuine D/C.

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This. ^

I feel like the people who haven't been in a party where this is happening fail to realize just how easy the bannable behavior is to spot.

One thing to note is that when someone pulls the bosses during the cutscenes all their dialogue and 'arena closing soon' warnings flash across the cutscene. It's about as subtle as a brick to the face. If it happens once you just warn the person about the TOS issue and leave it at that. And if they didn't pull the boss at all then there's nothing to even say to begin with as without being informed it'd just look like the person exited the cutscene at the same time you did. Due to this there's no problem with assuming it was a genuine accident as a lot of people likely aren't even aware the matter is bannable. If it happens again you can tell /instantly/ that they're using the exploit because within 20 seconds of the cutscene starting the boss has been pulled and you're suddenly, say, getting spammed with Gaius' fight dialogue /WHILE/ listening to him chew the scenery in cutscene form. Once is a mistake, twice is suspect, three times and you have a pattern. It also doesn't help that the people who do it generally try and goad the rest of the party into the action as well in my experience.

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Originally Posted by PvpDRG

But there is no personal gain or disadvantage to someone else. They CAN do it if they wanted to. They can also not do it if they don't want to. To do the skip is as simple as counting 1,2,3. It's not some ground breaking bug.

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I have no idea how to skip them, so I just read stuff on the other screen until they're done playing. If the rest of the group skips and completes half the instance ahead of me, then it's just over sooner for me as well, and I still get my tomestones.