If you are going to do a Live Letter

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Don't know how a general question could be taken as Aggressive, but hey, Im not anybody but myself.
And I know other places speak English
Once again, everyone will be caught up, it was stated to be Japanese Audio only ahead of time. Later there will be a Translation. .

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It was you jumping to conclusions and calling Americans self-important that I interpreted as aggressive. It was the jump in logic of “asking for something in English” > “obviously this guy is American” that I found presumptuous and aggressive. There’s literally no need for comments like that.

But since you’re insistent that everyone else just needs to wait until the digest comes out, mind sharing why it’s in the best interest of people to just wait? As opposed to advocating for English translations provided in real-time? Personally, I don’t see why we should have to wait. Or rely on third parties to translate for us. A global company should be able to provide global communications - and I don’t see the crime in asking for this.

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Originally Posted by Siete

Why are you so entitled to have stuff in your own language?

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English is a global language. SE is a global company. Asking for real-time English translations isn’t that huge of a request.

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Originally Posted by Xerkrosis

--Didn't say so in the news. Neither in english, nor german news. That's like announcing content updates and the content is japanese only.
--English isn't bound to America only. It's an international language.

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They announced it here
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...70b5f5fd8b0207
On the Lodestone.

And I know English is spoken by more then Americans, I already said this to someone else.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

And I know English is spoken by more then Americans, I already said this to someone else.

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People keep telling you this because of your assumption that someone asking for the content to be translated in English = American.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

Yes, but WHY is it still Japanese only. After 6 years, and having more non JP subscribers, are we still not important enough?

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

...Because they are Japanese? And its at Tokyo Gameshow?
Man, is America this self important that it can't wait till after the Live Show to get it Translated afterwards?

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It was you jumping to conclusions and calling Americans self-important that I interpreted as aggressive. It was the jump in logic of “asking for something in English” > “obviously this guy is American” that I found presumptuous and aggressive. There’s literally no need for comments like that.

But since you’re insistent that everyone else just needs to wait until the digest comes out, mind sharing why it’s in the best interest of people to just wait? As opposed to advocating for English translations provided in real-time? Personally, I don’t see why we should have to wait. Or rely on third parties to translate for us. A global company should be able to provide global communications - and I don’t see the crime in asking for this.

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It was a Question "Are Americans this self Important" I know what I said, I can tell you it wasn't aggression. People are just taking it that way because they found it offensive.
Why? Because they announced THIS show was gonna be Japanese Audio Only. It was already stated, you can't change that during the show by yelling about it During the Show. Nobody was yelling about it before hand, if they were, this would be a different conversation, because maybe they would have had time to fit it in after backlash. But people wanna do it after the fact, after the show started.
So, with that in mind, once again, everyone will be on the same page..AFTER the show, when it gets translated

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Originally Posted by Gula

Ironic for someone with Nier in their sig. Yoko Taro is a gift and I watched explicitly for him. Every minute with him on stage is worth more than gold.

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Yoshida: "Does this look like FFXIV at all anymore?"
Yoko Taro: "It's not too late to turn back Yoshida-san."
[....]
Yoko Taro: "So do you want to talk about Saito-san's divorce again?"

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

People keep telling you this because of your assumption that someone asking for the content to be translated in English = American.

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I don't remember asking why people are saying it.

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Originally Posted by Xerkrosis

Didn't say so in the news. Neither in english, nor german news.
That's like announcing content updates and the content is japanese only.

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https://i.imgur.com/5MzDUGw.png

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Originally Posted by Xerkrosis

They could do it in english or as others do, do a live translation over the streamed content via translator who is not with them on the booth, but exclusive for the stream.

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That would be expensive, complicated, and completely unnecessary. This stream had five people speaking Japanese to each other. So, you want them to hire five translators to listen and translate at the same time and hire more engineers to run a separate stream with balanced audio so you can hear the translators over the people they're translating but also still be able to hear when they play a music clip (which Yoko Taro also talked over, so you'd need the translator talking over that and end up not hearing the music or hearing too much cross talk with Yoko Taro and the translator)

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

It was a Question "Are Americans this self Important" I know what I said, I can tell you it wasn't aggression. People are just taking it that way because they found it offensive.

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There is absolutely no reason to include negative generalizations in a discussion. Even more so ones that you make on a whim against people you can’t even prove they apply to. You were in the wrong for making your statement, as it was completely unfounded and undermines the rest of what you said. Making presumptuous statements like the one you did is aggressive. Own it.

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Why? Because they announced THIS show was gonna be Japanese Audio Only. It was already stated, you can't change that during the show by yelling about it During the Show. Nobody was yelling about it before hand, if they were, this would be a different conversation, because maybe they would have had time to fit it in after backlash. But people wanna do it after the fact, after the show started.
So, with that in mind, once again, everyone will be on the same page..AFTER the show, when it gets translated

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This isn’t the first time people have expressed dissatisfaction with Japanese Only Audio.

I’m still waiting for an adequate defense as to why we can’t have English translations in real-time. What you provided above doesn’t answer my question to you.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I don't remember asking why people are saying it.

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You were commenting on it. I provided you with a reason why people keep bringing it up to you.

the english text in the live letter summed it all up was not too much in this

and yoko helmet broke so he had to head out

Its almost never translated and if you go to the reddit discord theres a live translation as its said i got all the info i needed from the stream to know im hyped but to each there own

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

There is absolutely no reason to include negative generalizations in a discussion. Even more so ones that you make on a whim against people you can’t even prove they apply to. You were in the wrong for making your statement, as it was completely unfounded and undermines the rest of what you said. Making presumptuous statements like the one you did is aggressive. Own it.

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It wasn't Negative or aggressive, people are just taking it that way because they got offended by it. Which is any/everyones right to do so, your all adults, I wont tell you how to think, but Im telling you; how you took it isn't how I meant it to be took. Whatever, its unfortunate, life happens and moves on. And so will I.
Own it? When have I denied it? I know what I said, and I haven't once backtracked on the statement, I said what I said, and it wasn't taken the way I intended to.
It happens, welcome to the internet.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I’m still waiting for an adequate defense as to why we can’t have English translations in real-time. What you provided above doesn’t answer my question to you.

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You want a Defense when I gave you a reason why they didn't have a Translator. Because they already had the show planned to not have a Translator, that it would be translated for everyone else later. Not good enough? Then I don't have a satisfactory answer, simple. Im not the devs or the company, ask them, not me.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

You were commenting on it. I provided you with a reason why people keep bringing it up to you.

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I said I know people other then Americans speak English. That wasn't asking why was it being said.
I appreciate you helping out, but I understood it just fine. Thank You though.

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Originally Posted by Xerkrosis

English isn't bound to America only. It's an international language.

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Like French which is a primary language in a lot of country across the world and is a language spoken by more than 500 millions of person... At some point in history French was even the international language.... But did you ever saw a FFXIV Live Stream whith a French Live Translator?

Is not NA the biggest FFXIV market right now?

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

It wasn't Negative or aggressive, people are just taking it that way because they got offended by it. Which is any/everyones right to do so, your all adults, I wont tell you how to think, but Im telling you; how you took it isn't how I meant it to be took. Whatever, its unfortunate, life happens and moves on. And so will I.
Own it? When have I denied it? I know what I said, and I haven't once backtracked on the statement, I said what I said, and it wasn't taken the way I intended to.
It happens, welcome to the internet.

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You keep denying it was aggressive when it was. And it had absolutely nothing to do with the request. You just brought it up for... reasons? I guess? I’m not offended—there just literally no reason for you to make statements like that in a discussion. It detracts from your points when you do that.

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You want a Defense when I gave you a reason why they didn't have a Translator. Because they already had the show planned to not have a Translator, that it would be translated for everyone else later. Not good enough? Then I don't have a satisfactory answer, simple. Im not the devs or the company, ask them, not me.

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That’s not a reason why we can’t have English translations. That’s you defending why the PLL was Japanese Audio Only. There’s a difference between what I asked and what you have written as an answer here.

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Originally Posted by Lorim

Like French which is a primary language in a lot of country across the world and is a language spoken by more than 500 millions of person... At some point in history French was even the international language.... But did you ever saw a FFXIV Live Stream whith a French Live Translator?

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This is a strawman. English is spoken all over the globe. It’s taught as a second language very early on in several countries. It is considered the unicameral language in this day and age. Asking for English translations in real-time from a company with global marketing is not a far off request. Personally, I wish we didn’t have to get our information from third parties and could get it far more easier from the source. Without having to wait for them to release an English digest.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

You keep denying it was aggressive when it was.

Also, please. It’s you’re.

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Sure, moving on...
Please tell me what part of Me Telling you: "My Post is not Aggressive, people are just taking it that way" is me Denying what I said and not Owning up to it.
Because at this point, you just want to tell me what my own words meant instead of just accepting that people, including yourself maybe, got offended and thats the end of it.
Im not denying what I said, I wont take it back, I wont apologize for it, I said it. And it wasn't meant to be taken the way it was. But hey, it got taken offensively, nothing I can do about it. I asked a question, I generalized Americans, people got upset. 2 people flew off the handle over it.

I wasn't aggressive. I didn't make a speech about "You....Humans" or sit here and talk about something unrelated and say "I could slack off and be defended"
None of that Aggression came from me, over a Question. A generalizing question...but still a Question

Wow.
/10char

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

You keep denying it was aggressive when it was. And it had absolutely nothing to do with the request. You just brought it up for... reasons? I guess? I’m not offended—there just literally no reason for you to make statements like that in a discussion. It detracts from your points when you do that.



That’s not a reason why we can’t have English translations. That’s you defending why the PLL was Japanese Audio Only. There’s a difference between what I asked and what you have written as an answer here.

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Neat, an edited post. Alright then.....
Nope, again it wasn't aggression, no matter how many times you wish it, it wasn't. Id asked for you to prove it was aggression, but that would be more silly then this prolonged ABBAB of me telling you there was no aggression in what I said. I will meet you halfway and agree it didn't need to be said. But I said it. I generalized.

Again, if you want this Satisfactory and Adequate answer to your question that you seek, give it to SE. Im not the person to ask. I don't speak for them, I will just tell you that they already planned all of this 10 days (maybe 11 at this point) ago,with it announced on the Lodestone website, and people are complaining Now about it. The Live Letter was gonna have Japanese Audio, and everyone else will get a Translation Later. We will have to wait, we will all be caught up.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Again, if you want this Satisfactory and Adequate answer to your question that you seek, give it to SE. Im not the person to ask. I don't speak for them, I will just tell you that they already planned all of this 10 days (maybe 11 at this point) ago,with it announced on the Lodestone website, and people are complaining Now about it. The Live Letter was gonna have Japanese Audio, and everyone else will get a Translation Later. We will have to wait, we will all be caught up.

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Then maybe you shouldn't be here White Knighting so hard for them about it, if you can't answer the question people are asking in the first place.

Just saying...

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Originally Posted by Tsalmaveth

Then maybe you shouldn't be here White Knighting so hard for them about it, if you can't answer the question people are asking in the first place.

Just saying...

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So am I, they announced this was happening over a week in advance. And people NOW wanna be upset about it.
Why would you sit here and expect me to answer why, just because I said what they already said, and that we should wait for the Translation?

Let me try this again...

"You shouldn't White Knight for a company when you can't actually do it properly."

IE: Spending pages belittling people who have a complaint, which they find perfectly legit, only to turn around when confronted about it and go 'Oh well I'm not the person to ask/confront, I don't speak for them, ask them!' When... you know... that was the entire point of the thread that you have spent the last few pages putting down and telling people they shouldn't be doing at all.

There was banter and conversation people wanted to be able to follow along with in real time that having to rely on fans to get translated is... honestly? A bit sad for a AAA company. Yes, I'm fully aware it was announced as 'Japanese audio only' but it SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN at this point? That's what people are saying and they have a right to voice their opinion on this matter. That is the point of these forums. To have their opinions brought forward and they don't need to be shouted down by white knights defending every little thing the company does as if they walk on water. Companies do need to hear when they can better meet their client's needs, and that includes clients outside of the country. SE is big enough now that they can accommodate some form of translation ability for a major patch update and guest appearance that they know their world-wide audience is going to be tuning in for.

Definetely, these stream was from the second part on absolutely a waste of time, 99% of the second half was only japanese talk that 90% of this world and most of the interested watching players around the world absolutely don't understand a single word abot .

Sure it is in Tokyo, Japan, but so proffesionall should we players expect it to be, that in an internationally played game like FF14, should be always presented new informations like this also too in a professional way, so that most of all plaers can understand the informations. What would have been the great deal really to have sit that sweet sounding assistant there too, like usually, so that at least an English Translation could have been offered like the last few time.

When you have there sitting 4 people talking with each other, for 1 hour, without showing anything what has been talked about - you know, sometimes are pictures more worth than 1000 words, if you can't live translate - and everything you hear fo an hour sounds to you only like gibberish yadayadayaddaadad yadadda, then this starts to begin feeling disrespectful and kind of at a certain point even discriminating, like the kind of way as - we have new things to talk about, but we share for now this knowledge only with those who can understand us by being self Japanese, wait for the translations to come later (if at all)

They use even English in the Screen Presentation, would it have been really asked too much to blend in within the last hour say every 15 Minutes a chart, which tells for streamwatchers in a few understandable line some eventually nice to know things that has been talked about?

This way was the first hour awesome for everyone, but the second half wwas more like a pure waste of time

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Originally Posted by Greyhawk

This live letter was an atrocity

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Are you sure it wasn't an apocalypse? I mean when it comes to hyperbole, why hold back? :D

I really, really don't care. For people who want a direct translation in a timely manner, Reddit provides. SE used to provide live updates on this very forum, but stopped because they were unpopular, especially compared to the speedy and accurate Reddit translations.

The most important snippets are translated into English on the powerpoints. Beyond that, the most you're missing out on is a little bit of exploratory banter. These PLLs are off-the-cuff and generally have minimal planning because they want their conversations to be organic. That's great for Japan, but it doesn't lend well to live translations and so they generally only do stuff with Aimi and Koji when they're abroad with immediate non-JP audiences. I'm just happy to receive news each month.

We get official translations of the Live Letter a little later... so what's the problem?

It's logistically near impossible for them to do a live translation for every live letter. For one, it would double the length of the Live Letter, which in itself is a huge problem. Not to mention taking their translators away from other tasks they could be doing, the extra cost in bandwidth and studio for doubling the length of the show, etc.

And as mentioned, Reddit has volunteers that translate live, so it's really, really not a problem.

I just want to warmly thank the volunteers that translate the live letters on FFXIV discord, in real time.

I find perfectly understandable that a Tokyo show, with 4 persons commenting spontaneously, has no simultaneous translation. If it did, it would have to be slow-moving, mostly scripted and, in general, it would be tiresome for everyone. And they always provide a digest in English on the official site a bit later.

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Originally Posted by Saintly

Why would they bother to do that?
They are known to treat NA/EU as 2nd rate customers.

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It has nothing to do with being second rate customers. I know this is hard to believe. Prepare yourself. This is a Japanese game. SE was at the Tokyo game show in Japan. It was completely unnecessary for them to translate at this venue. You are not the center of the universe.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

We get official translations of the Live Letter a little later... so what's the problem?

It's logistically near impossible for them to do a live translation for every live letter. For one, it would double the length of the Live Letter, which in itself is a huge problem. Not to mention taking their translators away from other tasks they could be doing, the extra cost in bandwidth and studio for doubling the length of the show, etc.

And as mentioned, Reddit has volunteers that translate live, so it's really, really not a problem.

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All the important talking points are selected and prepare beforehand, that why some of the stuff is already translated. Expanding, withing reason, the information for an important part of the player base (in reality it should be translated for all the officially supported languages by SE) should not be a big deal instead of making people wait for a translation.

Anyway, for some reason, people keep forgetting that NA is the biggest market for FFXIV. We are not talking about a Korean game with a small western audience here.

So what did they say? Now I'm curious!

use your resources! there are translations all over but the best are in the reddit discord.

In all honesty, you missed absolutely nothing. They pretty much reiterated everything we already knew, refused to reveal the Ultimate or Trial and mostly went on about Fellowships that I suspect only JP will care about. It was not a good LL by any stretch.

If they had an english translator at the tokyo game show I can hear it now:

Audience - “Why TF is this being translates into english?!”

They should add English subtitle or throw some kind Nintendo direct for who doesn't know Japanese language.

Live Letter was okay back in days. But now they made half billion dollars of sales on FFXIV. they're have no excuse to implemented those options.

Well, the hate and discontent I can see still flows freely here. Now I question why I bother posting, as this was really more feedback for SE than anything.

However, the discontent of Americans and the English language seems to run parallel with each other by either non-Americans, and/or the Americans that hate America. If I had posted Spanish/French/Chinese instead of English, I would have had little to no interaction from so many hating people. Hell, if I told you I was Native American and wanted it translated into Oglala Sioux (Lakota) language, you'd probably petition to have me banned - regardless if I am or not. You people hate others so much. Sad really. It's no wonder why I only have 49 posts in six years here.

My last post here will be to the one who got more attention in this post than my own post did - the person who has a clear hate and discontent for America (Zanarkand-Ronso). The rest of you, I really have no interest in because of the bandwagon jumping you did - that's just the sheep following the flock off the cliff. You, who hates America are that typical schoolyard bully who prefers to just beat up the smallest child on the playground for the lunch money. You don't care how you got it, so long as you got your point across to everyone else that your opinion on the matter, no matter how insulting or demeaning it was, wasn't meant to 'offend' anyone. Your stance on the matter is really, "well, too bad - that's not how I meant it". You are so blind, you don't even see the obvious offensive drivel. That is okay - it's irrelevant, because your opinion on the matter isn't who it affects - it's everyone else, and you clearly don't give a two bits about anyone but you.

I'll be blunt to those advocating for not having a translator - like Introvert above me - They (meaning many other cultures and companies - including SE) have done it in the past on streams where they do not have a translator at a live letter or similar type of streaming function. Instead, they have had an inlaid picture in picture in the stream of a translator for all kinds of multi-language interpretations for everyone to understand what is going on - be it Spanish, French, Chinese, <insert whatever you wish here>, and doesn't cost this company or any others making billions in profit near the amount you think. It's not difficult, it just takes time. If they don't have the time for the playerbase, well then so be it. Again, follow Ronso's logic, and as a company who just leaves it as "duly noted, moving on".

Quite honestly, I didn't know/realize they had posted that it was Japanese only. None of you knew that about me when I posted this so late at night, excited to hear about what was coming. Your assumptions really just upheld the standard convictions.

Please, continue the hate. I'll be... not here, and playing a game.

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Originally Posted by Zarkovitch

They should add English subtitle or throw some kind Nintendo direct for who doesn't know Japanese language.

Live Letter was okay back in days. But now they made half billion dollars of sales on FFXIV. they're have no excuse to implemented those options.

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For people saying subs- do tell how with an unscripted event and the madness that is Taro on stage? Nintendo Directs are scripted, so yes, they can dub over it. They speak slowly and clearly. You have Taro's madness in one corner, YoshiP making a comment to Foxclon in another, and impromptu audience feedback.

I really want to know where these magic subs will sprout from.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

https://i.imgur.com/5MzDUGw.png
[...]

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This warning only appears on the Tokyo Game Show-news. Didn't click on it once, since I have zero interest in it and neither the title, nor the teaser-text in the newsticker mentioned anything about a LftP.
But both announcements of the actual LftP (1, 2) didn't include it. The only warning it had was "* Starting time is subject to change."

I guess I'm just too used to have at least english available when I'm watching a livestream from an international company. Even if it's only via subtitles (like Nintendo, another japanese company, did), although this of course requires everyone to follow precisely a script, which wasn't the case here I assume.

the fun stuff isnt needed but at least he basic info they talk about in more detail then their powerpoint shows could have some prepared translations... you can plan some parts and i dont think they change stuff like 10 min before the LL.

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Originally Posted by Xerkrosis

...although this of course requires everyone to follow precisely a script, which wasn't the case here I assume.

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You would assume correctly. The Live Letters are not scripted aside from the powerpoint slides. Everything else is off-the-cuff comments from Yoshida, Marlboro, etc.

That being said, you don't really miss much by not understanding Japanese. Most of the banter is exactly that. All the important information is presented on the slides.

As I mentioned on the last page, having live translation for every Live Letter is simply not feasible. It's not a matter about the company having a lot of money. It isn't something you can just throw money at.

People seem to have conveniently forgotten Judgement Eyes' live translation for 2018 Tokyo Game Show. For a scripted scene no less. It was the power of 1 woman vs multiple people talking at and over each other. I hate I cannot find a clean clip of it for all the Let's Plays clogging the search results, but it is out there, somewhere, for viewing. And it was physically painful.

If reading information is all people want, then surely, a post LL translation will suffice. There is a reddit discord that provides as such for those who want to see it live. But mayhap research and going above knee jerk reactions is a bit too much to ask from some people.

The entitlement really shines through in this thread. A Japanese game *must* have English translation. Again the entitlement and center of the universe thinking is truly amazing, bravo! Now I know the type of people who truly thought the solar system revolved around earth.

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Originally Posted by Mistyregions

The entitlement really shines through in this thread. A Japanese game *must* have English translation. Again the entitlement and center of the universe thinking is truly amazing, bravo! Now I know the type of people who truly thought the solar system revolved around earth.

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Except... It's not just a Japanese game.

It's officially released in multiple languages. It's played in multiple countries. The NA player base is by far the largest, with JP being the smallest last I checked.

Expecting things like future content details to be rolled out to all regions isn't being entitled. I honestly feel like you don't understand what that word means.

Now, I don't care about translations since Reddit is pretty good at providing all of the information, but that just better details the absolute laziness of SE. Random people on the internet who don't get paid are able to provide nearly live translations, but SE can collect subscriptions from across the globe, with a huge portion being from predominantly English speakers, but can't be bothered to provide a timely translation?

SE is lazy when it comes to these things. They just are. The players aren't being entitled, they just expect the bare minimum amount of attention from SE when they're the ones paying for the game.