Ninja is weak, like very weak.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

But fflogs already does that for you, no need to calculate it yourself.
You can just look at the rDPS numbers, which already redistribute numbers based on damage buffs (see https://www.fflogs.com/help/rdps).
What you should not do is manually add damage from TA to rDPS, that would be counting TA twice.

So all in all you're making a good point, if TA was twice as strong as it is now ninja would bring the same overall damage to the raid as a black mage.

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Oh didnt realise it was already a thing.
So according to it, ninja indeed is underperforming by 10% anyway, so i was wrong, should get another buff.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

Out of everyone, I feel worse for Samurai, a class with 0 raid buffing that's sitting solidly behind Monk and Dragoon.

Monk buffs were probably well over the top, but everyone's pretty much said that.

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For samurai you should also interpret the correct metric, and make sure you don't count things twice.
The metric where samurai does lower damage than a dragoon already includes the raid buffs.
When you look at their personal dps a samurai does better than a dragoon, though a monk is still quite a bit higher.

Now of course rDPS on samurai is a bit lower than a dragoon, but it's not like lower rDPS and no raid buff.
It's more like lower rDPS because of no raid buff, or because of very slightly low-ish pDPS.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Someone has to be at the bottom. Would you prefer the dancer mains have to be there? The Bards / Machinists? The question is always what is the spread. Anything more than about 10% DPS potential should probably be looked at.

But simply: Any job that relies on raid utility is going to have less dps because they make the raid better due to their lack of dps. Total raid dps due to trick attack is basically added to NIN DPS total. That's what many aren't doing here and it's not arguing from an honest stand point.

If you want NIN DPS to be higher, Trick Attack needs to be lowered.

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Pointing to raid buffs as justification for low DPS worked before but it doesn't work anymore. We now know through rDPS rankings on fflogs that raid buffs do not even come close to making up the difference and that selfish DPS are the exclusive masters of the DPS rankings even when you take into consideration buffs. If anything, we know today that raid buffs need to be made stronger not weaker.

NIN is a melee, therefore would only be taken in a slot people would keep for melee (except for those who who dont mind being melee heavy for.... reasons? Prolly for giggles). So you take a nin, who does less pdps than the others, for their dps utility (that is meant to increase the whole groups dps) that... makes the whole group have less dps over all. (2k drop in pdps, plus even if 1k rdps from trick = dps loss)

The logs show rdps now. Rdps is pdps+ utility dps benefit. Nin isnt worth taking over another melee.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Someone has to be at the bottom.

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If the bottom of DPS was like the bottom of Tanks or Healers, there wouldn't be an issue. If they were 1-2% behind BLM and not 20-30% they'd be better off. Trick Attack I'll agree needs to be moved to another class. A melee DPS is melee DPS. It needs to be doing heavy damage.

Again I'll say it. Ninjas have been the heaviest damage in previous FF games. Rogue, the class behind the Ninja job has likewise always been heavy hitting across MMORPGs for 20 years. Nothing about rogue screams I'm gonna buff peoples damage.

Doesn't help that ninja also lost its enmity management niche, since....well, unless your tank is spectacularly terrible, enmity management doesn't really exist anymore.

http://www.darklegacycomics.com/558

Yea, it's a WoW comic,. but it applies to this thread as well :)

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

How far do you think NIN is behind other melee DPS, honestly?

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At current NIN sits ~1000 rDPS behind monk, ~900 behind DRG, ~400 behind SAM. Except for E3S it only gets worse. At E3S NIN maintains position relative to the other melee DPS but winds up doing decent damage compared to all DPS jobs overall.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

At current NIN sits ~1000 rDPS behind monk, ~900 behind DRG, ~400 behind SAM. Except for E3S it only gets worse. At E3S NIN maintains position relative to the other melee DPS but winds up doing decent damage compared to all DPS jobs overall.

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Firstly at what percentile are you looking. Or are you giving estimated averages.

Secondly, the fact that even after figuring rdps (pdps + utility contribution) its still falling short is the issue ppl have. You are not going to take a ninja when even after working extra for trick you still better taking another melee.

Third, oh ninjas are doing secent conpared to other dps? Does this mean ninja can pick up a ranged slot in a party?

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Originally Posted by TaiyouSeishin

Firstly at what percentile are you looking. Or are you giving estimated averages.

Secondly, the fact that even after figuring rdps (pdps + utility contribution) its still falling short is the issue ppl have. You are not going to take a ninja when even after working extra for trick you still better taking another melee.

Third, oh ninjas are doing secent conpared to other dps? Does this mean ninja can pick up a ranged slot in a party?

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75th Percentile:

E1S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=65&class=Any
E2S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=66&class=Any
E3S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=67&class=Any
E4S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=68&class=Any

At E3S NIN somehow climbs over all the ranged except BLM perhaps due to lack of positionals. At E4S the numbers are so close that NIN is more or less interchangeable with any of the non-BLM ranged.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

75th Percentile:

E1S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=65&class=Any
E2S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=66&class=Any
E3S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=67&class=Any
E4S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=68&class=Any

At E3S NIN somehow climbs over all the ranged except BLM perhaps due to lack of positionals. At E4S the numbers are so close that NIN is more or less interchangeable with any of the non-BLM ranged.

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Well thats cool. Honestly at least we are passable somewhere. But being higher than ranged isnt something to write home about.

(Levi is indeed omni-directional target circle)

But a ninja isnt going to be taken in a slot that someone would want ranged... like a mechanic that youd prefer a ranged for (like pools, etc) Also a ninjas rdps is only as high as the dps he runs with. If you were to say, take the 3 melee and the blm out, and pick up the next 4 dps to take, ninja would NOT be over machinist then. Ninja would be falling even lower.

The issue isnt that we are "behind everyone" its that in our chosen role as melee dps, we are a hinderance, as opposed to a benefit.

Being higher than machinist? Thats cool (honestly at least nin are not dead last) but thats a consolation, not a showing that its "even" nin's personal dps, nullifys its own utility, which is the actual issue.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

75th Percentile:

E1S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=65&class=Any
E2S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=66&class=Any
E3S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=67&class=Any
E4S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=68&class=Any

At E3S NIN somehow climbs over all the ranged except BLM perhaps due to lack of positionals. At E4S the numbers are so close that NIN is more or less interchangeable with any of the non-BLM ranged.

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Based on what I see here, if any job needs help, it is RDM more than NIN. NIN will always be wanted for trick attack just like people will always want dancer for its damage buffs. But RDM is consistently worst or second worst DPS and its best raid buff is.. Embolden. Something that buffs only physical damage for the party and with a buff that actually gets worse every few seconds. Why bring a red mage when summoner fills the same niche but with more damage?

I'm pretty cool with this perception of ninja. They had a stranglehold on group compositions for years, so them no longer being seen as essential is a sign of balance -- not malice against the job.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I'm pretty cool with this perception of ninja. They had a stranglehold on group compositions for years, so them no longer being seen as essential is a sign of balance -- not malice against the job.

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This idea that since a job was meta in the past then it's ok to severely undertune it now really bothers me to be honest.
Because right now NIN is indeed undertuned relative to its fellow melee dps...by a significant margin. And by the way my party cleared e4s with a NIN so it IS perfectly viable, but this doesn't male it any less unbalanced.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

This idea that since a job was meta in the past then it's ok to severely undertune it now really bothers me to be honest.
Because right now NIN is indeed undertuned relative to its fellow melee dps...by a significant margin. And by the way my party cleared e4s with a NIN so it IS perfectly viable, but this doesn't male it any less unbalanced.

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There's only a 500 dps difference between NIN and SAM. I'd say it's fine where it is. The goal of the rebalancing in 5.0 was to eliminate the need for a NIN, DRG and BRD in every party. And so now NIN is squarely in the middle of rDPS, which there's nothing wrong with.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

This idea that since a job was meta in the past then it's ok to severely undertune it now really bothers me to be honest.
Because right now NIN is indeed undertuned relative to its fellow melee dps...by a significant margin. And by the way my party cleared e4s with a NIN so it IS perfectly viable, but this doesn't male it any less unbalanced.

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Note I say perception.

Wrong. Jobs should be balanced within their role now that we have the passive party bonus for diversified composition that more or less ensures that all roles are equally desirable. Right now NIN is the lowest melee by a wide margin in terms of rdps, we're talking about 800+ difference when compared to MNK and DRG, despite bringing the additional bother of requiring perfect play and rotational accuracy by all party members to fully exploit the trick attack. I'm not saying NIN should be required in speedrun comps, but right now it simply is...week. End of the story.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Wouldn't really work. Dancer only has two Steps and each has a defined end point. Ninja's mudras have an array of combinations. How would a pop-up gauge even work for that?

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DNC has four steps; it only has two actual 'finishes' Standard step only needs two steps, while technical needs four inputted in which are from what I remember, random. I imagined it would literally just be the same thing. Random.
Press the ability you wish to perform. This changes all of the Ninjutsu 'buttons' into mudras - like DNCs offence moves become dance steps. Follow the correct mudra sequence on the gauge. Press the finaliser, 'Ninjutsu' button.
Meh, that's what I imagined in my head. Would probably flow like crap anyway.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Based on what I see here, if any job needs help, it is RDM more than NIN. NIN will always be wanted for trick attack just like people will always want dancer for its damage buffs. But RDM is consistently worst or second worst DPS and its best raid buff is.. Embolden. Something that buffs only physical damage for the party and with a buff that actually gets worse every few seconds. Why bring a red mage when summoner fills the same niche but with more damage?

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Rdm needs a buff. But you are incorrect about ninja still wanted because of trick. You are taking its utility at face value. The highest value trick has been given has been around 1000. Pdps of ninja is 2k behind the next melee. This means ninjas pdps nullifys trick attack. Also means a "speedrun" loses total raid dps just by bringing them.


If a utility still nets in a dps loss, the utility may as well not exist. Remove it, or give ninja a proper excuse for its dps contribution being as low as it is.

Ppl are trashing nin because it was meta so long. They say "its where it should be now," or "its just not meta now its fine" when in actuality its not even VIABLE. Meta has nothing to do with a majority of the player base, its just what people echo from the "top percentile" "this is best so we should have it"

There will never be a balance. Something will always be meta, just not nin this time, as it cant even perform its main function.

Someone as to be on the bottom, and to be fair, after Ninja have dominated as a locked slot almost since their launch, I am 100% fine with Ninja being on the bottom half of the DPS hierarchy for one expansion.

They aren't even that far behind the top to be 100% honest in terms of rDPS. People are making a hen of a feather here. I can, however, agree that Ninja is, and tbh always were, in a bothersome situation for dungeons, but any class could without a single issue piloted by a below average player could get through dungeons, so I can have oversight with poor dungeon balancing, and NIN will be doomed to be bad in dungeons until something is done about Trick attack as if they are good in dungeons they will be OP in raids.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

Someone as to be on the bottom, and to be fair, after Ninja have dominated as a locked slot almost since their launch, I am 100% fine with Ninja being on the bottom half of the DPS hierarchy for one expansion.

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The problem with this thinking is that Ninja is now considerably more difficult to play properly than any other DPS. It takes a lot of work to maximize DPS, and even then you still fall short. Trick Attack alone doesn't make up for it. If it's going to be at the bottom for personal DPS, then it needs more or better utility. If a heavy-hitter DPS can deal more damage than Trick Attack is able to offer, then there's legitimately no reason to even play Ninja.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

Someone as to be on the bottom, and to be fair, after Ninja have dominated as a locked slot almost since their launch, I am 100% fine with Ninja being on the bottom half of the DPS hierarchy for one expansion

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So you're justifying the current lack of balance becaus of past lack of balance?
Two wrongs don't make a right, you know. You can't have a dps be 10% lower than other jobs competing for the same spot in a party (melee dps in this case, ideally all melee dps should have approximatelly equal rdps). The same can be said about blm and casters of course. Right now, only ranged dps are well balanced unfortunately.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

Someone as to be on the bottom, and to be fair, after Ninja have dominated as a locked slot almost since their launch, I am 100% fine with Ninja being on the bottom half of the DPS hierarchy for one expansion.

They aren't even that far behind the top to be 100% honest in terms of rDPS. People are making a hen of a feather here. I can, however, agree that Ninja is, and tbh always were, in a bothersome situation for dungeons, but any class could without a single issue piloted by a below average player could get through dungeons, so I can have oversight with poor dungeon balancing, and NIN will be doomed to be bad in dungeons until something is done about Trick attack as if they are good in dungeons they will be OP in raids.

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Ok. There is one thing i dislike about rdps being able to be seen now, its that people think of it like personal dps and therefore think of how balance should be around that. For every utility you have, you should do less dps personally, this is practically universal. But dps utilities, how do you balance those?

Imagine if verraise from a rdm, that whenever it raises someone, it kills two other party members... thats a utility functioning as it should... right?

Trick attack increases a raids dps by 1k to make up for a 2k deficit by taking the ninja? The dps increasing utility functions as it should.... right?

Lets get rid of dps utilities, since ppl want them to simply not work, give ninja some other utilities that dont increase dps, make their ability to do their own dps not so convoluted, and then ninja will be perfectly happy "not being meta" because at least then we wont be a direct hinderance, which is what our problem ACTUALLY is

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Originally Posted by TaiyouSeishin

Rdm needs a buff. But you are incorrect about ninja still wanted because of trick. You are taking its utility at face value. The highest value trick has been given has been around 1000. Pdps of ninja is 2k behind the next melee. This means ninjas pdps nullifys trick attack. Also means a "speedrun" loses total raid dps just by bringing them.


If a utility still nets in a dps loss, the utility may as well not exist. Remove it, or give ninja a proper excuse for its dps contribution being as low as it is.

Ppl are trashing nin because it was meta so long. They say "its where it should be now," or "its just not meta now its fine" when in actuality its not even VIABLE. Meta has nothing to do with a majority of the player base, its just what people echo from the "top percentile" "this is best so we should have it"

There will never be a balance. Something will always be meta, just not nin this time, as it cant even perform its main function.

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You're wrong to suggest that just because trick doesn't make up for the loss in overall party dps compared to bringing another class that means people won't want it. At the end of the day, trick attack makes other people's parse numbers go up. So yes that means it will always be wanted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

At the end of the day, trick attack makes other people's parse numbers go up.

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Not anymore. With rDPS, TA only counts towards NIN's dps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

So you're justifying the current lack of balance becaus of past lack of balance?
Two wrongs don't make a right, you know. You can't have a dps be 10% lower than other jobs competing for the same spot in a party (melee dps in this case, ideally all melee dps should have approximatelly equal rdps). The same can be said about blm and casters of course. Right now, only ranged dps are well balanced unfortunately.

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I am NOT saying there is a lack of balance anywhere? From numbers to judge NIN is about 10% worse than the top DPS. That is VERY close, so close actually that a very good NIN can outperform any average player of any other job. I am however saying that some jobs has to be worse as no matter how much things are tuned one thing will be objectively worse than the other if things are different, and that it is healthy that a job that has been slot-locked since its release is at that spot right now rather than jobs that has been a meme-job for several expansions.

EDIT to add further replies and avoid double posting:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TaiyouSeishin

Ok. There is one thing i dislike about rdps being able to be seen now, its that people think of it like personal dps and therefore think of how balance should be around that. For every utility you have, you should do less dps personally, this is practically universal. But dps utilities, how do you balance those?

Imagine if verraise from a rdm, that whenever it raises someone, it kills two other party members... thats a utility functioning as it should... right?

Trick attack increases a raids dps by 1k to make up for a 2k deficit by taking the ninja? The dps increasing utility functions as it should.... right?

Lets get rid of dps utilities, since ppl want them to simply not work, give ninja some other utilities that dont increase dps, make their ability to do their own dps not so convoluted, and then ninja will be perfectly happy "not being meta" because at least then we wont be a direct hinderance, which is what our problem ACTUALLY is

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The "problem" if Ninja has good dungeon DPS with something like trick attack is that they will be overturned in dungeons compared to "selfish" jobs as 8 people enjoying that Trick Attack is better than 4 people enjoying that trick attack, and don't even get me started on how it affects 24-man content where 24 people enjoy that debuff. But yes, Ninja isn't top DPS now and people will almost always prefer MNK and DRG over it, just like people earlier had Ninja as a locked slot while some other jobs barely got into end-game content. That is how it is, some jobs will be better than others, and as I said above, I would rather it change from expansion to expansion which jobs are good and bad instead of, for example, that we 10 expansions down the line still see Ninja as a lower-tier performing DPS. Lower-tier. NIN isn't even the worst DPS in the game as of now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

I am NOT saying there is a lack of balance anywhere? From numbers to judge NIN is about 10% worse than the top DPS. That is VERY close, so close actually that a very good NIN can outperform any average player of any other job. I am however saying that some jobs has to be worse as no matter how much things are tuned one thing will be objectively worse than the other if things are different, and that it is healthy that a job that has been slot-locked since its release is at that spot right now rather than jobs that has been a meme-job for several expansions.

EDIT to add further replies and avoid double posting:


The "problem" if Ninja has good dungeon DPS with something like trick attack is that they will be overturned in dungeons compared to "selfish" jobs as 8 people enjoying that Trick Attack is better than 4 people enjoying that trick attack, and don't even get me started on how it affects 24-man content where 24 people enjoy that debuff. But yes, Ninja isn't top DPS now and people will almost always prefer MNK and DRG over it, just like people earlier had Ninja as a locked slot while some other jobs barely got into end-game content. That is how it is, some jobs will be better than others, and as I said above, I would rather it change from expansion to expansion which jobs are good and bad instead of, for example, that we 10 expansions down the line still see Ninja as a lower-tier performing DPS. Lower-tier. NIN isn't even the worst DPS in the game as of now.

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I think you're overvaluing TA. First, as other's have said now, it's rDPS contribution isn't that great any more. It also requires strong group coordination to really shine. Also, as others have said, NIN is the hardest melee class to play optimally currently, by far. The Mudra combos/sequence is too easy to mess up, and severely punishing when done incorrectly.

IMO, NIN needs a bit of a Mudra redesign (less buttons to press or less reliant on stacking mudras), and they need potency buffs, particularly for their AoE's..

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Originally Posted by soulseeker78

I think you're overvaluing TA. First, as other's have said now, it's rDPS contribution isn't that great any more. It also requires strong group coordination to really shine. Also, as others have said, NIN is the hardest melee class to play optimally currently, by far. The Mudra combos/sequence is too easy to mess up, and severely punishing when done incorrectly.

IMO, NIN needs a bit of a Mudra redesign (less buttons to press or less reliant on stacking mudras), and they need potency buffs, particularly for their AoE's..

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3.0 BLMs can testament that difficulty =/= how good your class is. But yes, I would be fine with those changes, but to say that NIN is really weak which is what this thread implies when it is basically in the bottom middle of the pack is very odd, there are several classes worse than them, and some classes HAS to be the worse than others when there are differences to them.

Also, on the topic of TA, the problem is still that if they are tuned for 4-man content they will do more damage in 8-man content, it might not be much more, but consider this, the difference between top dog DPS and bottom right now is a little bit more than 10% and people cry that NIN is so bad it is silly, it doesn't take much for people to consider a class broken or useless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

Also, on the topic of TA, the problem is still that if they are tuned for 4-man content they will do more damage in 8-man content, it might not be much more, but consider this, the difference between top dog DPS and bottom right now is a little bit more than 10% and people cry that NIN is so bad it is silly, it doesn't take much for people to consider a class broken or useless.

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A 10% rdps difference between a jobs and other jobs in the same role is huge when battle content is entirely designed around dps checks, my friend. The current state of NIN is one of the worst balance issues the game has ever had, probably surpassing MNK and BLM depressing condition in 3.X. Considering the relative balance that was achieved at the end of Stormblood, it's quite surprising that the dev team made such a mistake.

Anyway, devs just acknowledged NIN issues in the last LL. A rework plus adjustmenta are coming and they are a priority. NIN main rejoice.

RDM too now. :'(

NIN shouldn't ever be behind tanks, but yeah they seem like they're in a pretty bad spot right now. My group's nin had to go drg on sunday to get us enough dps to clear titan savage, and that was including the fact that we already had a drg and didn't get a melee lb3 at the end because of it. He was lamenting the whole time how much more fun he was having on drg + how many less buttons he had to use to still outperform his nin despite being a nin main.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

A 10% rdps difference between a jobs and other jobs in the same role is huge when battle content is entirely designed around dps checks, my friend. The current state of NIN is one of the worst balance issues the game has ever had, probably surpassing MNK and BLM depressing condition in 3.X. Considering the relative balance that was achieved at the end of Stormblood, it's quite surprising that the dev team made such a mistake.

Anyway, devs just acknowledged NIN issues in the last LL. A rework plus adjustmenta are coming and they are a priority. NIN main rejoice.

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Where's a link to the LL? I like to see it.

I'm happy they're going to address NIN adjustments. I love NIN and beat ShB with it despite the issues it had, but yeah. I notice even my Tanks doing better than it.
I'll feel happy if they make NIN excellent at least in pDPS. Also is it true that TA is ONLY used to increase the damage dealt by NIN and not by the party? Why would they nerf it like that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

Where's a link to the LL? I like to see it.

I'm happy they're going to address NIN adjustments. I love NIN and beat ShB with it despite the issues it had, but yeah. I notice even my Tanks doing better than it.
I'll feel happy if they make NIN excellent at least in pDPS. Also is it true that TA is ONLY used to increase the damage dealt by NIN and not by the party? Why would they nerf it like that?

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It technically DOES boost their dps, but your own lacking dps just nullifies it. And for purpose of rdps the dps that is generated from TA is factored in for the NIN. The only issue is that TA requires people to work with you, and even that doesnt equal out.

Tl;dr - basically its just that instead of showing raw dos values, the value of TA for the nin is accounted for

I liked NIN back in the day. Not so much anymore. I don't know raw numbers to pull, but doing Trust with equal level NIN and SAM, SAM completes the shebang multiple minutes faster. Then again, maybe I'm just better with SAM than NIN overall -shrug-

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

Where's a link to the LL? I like to see it.

I'm happy they're going to address NIN adjustments. I love NIN and beat ShB with it despite the issues it had, but yeah. I notice even my Tanks doing better than it.
I'll feel happy if they make NIN excellent at least in pDPS. Also is it true that TA is ONLY used to increase the damage dealt by NIN and not by the party? Why would they nerf it like that?

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Q1:
As a ninja player in Savage, when comparing DPS with other melee DPS I feel like the potency increase to Gust Slash was not enough for our overall damage. Our damage feels lacking for the amount of difficulty when playing the job. Any plans for ninja adjustment?

A1:
Many players provided feedback regarding ninja, so we touched on the topics via a presentation slide.

The development team believes the following three points are the main issues

◆Ninjutsu and mudra combinations being disrupted by GCD timing causes clunkiness.
Ninjutsu is easily influenced by lag, and we were reaching a limit as to how we could adjust it, so we are planning to restructure ninjutsu itself. The playstyle of putting together mudra will remain, but they will not be weaved between GCDs.

Instead, we are thinking the playstyle will be something along the lines of:
Use a combo > use ninjutsu > return to combo

However this adjustment would require readjusting ninja’s entire DPS, so we were unable to make the adjustments in time for patch 5.05. Therefore these adjustments will be made in patch 5.1.
◆Too many inputs are required to perform rotations for maximum damage output.
We are reconsidering the combo rotation.
◆The party utility of Trick Attack and ninja’s total damage output need to be balanced.
We will be increasing ninja's personal damage in patch 5.08. However, Trick Attack has a lot of influence over the party’s DPS, so the values will be adjusted with this in mind. Additionally, as mentioned above, please keep in mind that these adjusted values may be readjusted again in patch 5.1

This is the summary from the LL about NIN. Here is the link to thread with Bayohne's translations:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/400887-Letter-from-the-Producer-LIVE-Part-LIII-Update-Thread

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Q1:
As a ninja player in Savage, when comparing DPS with other melee DPS I feel like the potency increase to Gust Slash was not enough for our overall damage. Our damage feels lacking for the amount of difficulty when playing the job. Any plans for ninja adjustment?

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I'm surprised they even answered this, since we're not supposed to know our DPS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

I'm surprised they even answered this, since we're not supposed to know our DPS.

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Without a parser, you can still easily tell that Ninja is not pulling the same DPS as others. If you play more than one job, you feel the difference yourself.

Would people even be okay if the devs took Trick Attack away?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

Would people even be okay if the devs took Trick Attack away?

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I would rather have that high damage skill back which you had to use in front of enemies which shared the trick attack cooldown, it was much more fun to use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

Would people even be okay if the devs took Trick Attack away?

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For most ninjas, yes. For static dudes, probably not.