Cross world Market good or bad?

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Originally Posted by AngeliouxRein

Man...33 mil is nothing? *looks at sad retainers*
C-can yall like make a mass donation and send it my way since gil means nothing to you? I sure know how to blow through all of it and it not being all on house and glam...just saying... don't ask what I spend it on just help the poor out D:!! Plz...?

*cough* but a serious question. What is this thread even about again? I am starting to feel like the main post is not quite it...

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Someone is sour they can't sell things for crazy markups anymore. That's all.

I took this quite serious at the beginning but realized half way through that my dear crafter friend is just trolling.

First off - Owning 10m or even 20m is a lot for most of players. It is nothing for crafters though. I do understand the point that you want some reward back after all the time and gil you spent to get your crafters where they are right now. Leveling them all up to 80 and either spend a lot of time or gil on overmelding - again and again with every crafter patch - oh boy, you sure want to make decent profit for all the trouble you went through.

There are three reasons prizes went down so quickly with the new crafted gear:

1) It is darn cheap to make.
It is. Besides the Goetica you don't really need anything to craft it. I've seen a lot of crafters buying 2k Goetica for 2m via PF (and I did the same). So you basically spent a minimal amount of gil on the items. So it is naturally that they just don't sell off for that much gil.

2) There are way more crafters around
Everyone and their mother have crafters now. At some point in SB half of the players decided to jump on the gil-train. And it isn't that hard to level them up anymore. So the competition is much higher than back in SB (or even HW).

3) Cross-Server MB stabilizes the prices much quicker
And that is actually a good thing because it finally helps to de-monopolize the market and helps new players get into it as well. Besides - speaking for EU servers - the prizes tend to be very similar especially for the end crafts. I checked for the new glamour as well as the glamour mats and they all add up at the same prize (plus/minus 200k). Personally I still looking forward to one MB for all servers in on Datacenter.

That being said - There still is gil in crafters. Bufffood & Pots will sell on a regular basis. The crafted gear will sell as well just not as expansive as before. I do agree however, that the best way to make gil right now is to sell materials from gathering. Time to overmeld the gatherers, hu?

Yes, world visit has been amazing for equalizing the economy between servers.

Before, some servers had absolutely outrageous prices on certain goods, while other servers on the same DC had much more reasonable prices. But the people on the former server had no choice but to pay the gouged prices. Now they can go to other servers if the prices are gouged on their server.

In other words, it opened up the field of competition, allowing for much more competition and thus a more reasonable price equilibrium.

Still gonna go with them being good, but it will be interesting to see what happens with the MB now that Mogboard is getting a paywall.

Most of you guys are buyers or zelkova lumber crafter. You have no idea what you spewing sorry to say. I have already explained why cross world market is the issue and yet you going round with how sick this new changes are for economy stability.
I said this many times and gonna say one more time. IDC about your stable economy. All i care about is gil and this stable economy is making crafting not worth it anymore.

Chump change of 800k gil/hr may be good in ur book but its not for most crafters.

Oh, come on now! You started this thread with "I just want to know how other crafters feel" and now when other crafters step forward, you accuse them of not knowing their stuff because they are "Zelkova Crafters"? Did it occur to you that maybe not all just agree to you? Don't ask for an opinion if you blame People to not know what they are talking about just because they don't agree with you.

I get you. I truly do. I focus mainly on crafting and selling stuff on the MB. And it hit me as well that the prizes for the new crafted gear dropped so fast and even the prizes for the mats from the maps. I really do hoped that they would at least stay somewhere above 2m for some time (planned with 5m to be honest - at least for the first week). But it didn't. Even if it is annoying that I'm not making that big of a profit as I used to be and that I need to adjust or "step up my game" I still think that the cross-server MB is a blessing. I can buy out the mats for the new glamour cheap and the glamour itself still sells for a good enough profit on my server. And I'm on Spriggan. There isn't much of a economy on Spriggan.

I care about gil. I care a looot about gil. But things have changed and we need to adjust. We just can't rely on our experience of the past anymore but have to take a closer look at the MB again to see where the wins and loses lies.

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Originally Posted by IamBetterThanYou

Most of you guys are buyers or zelkova lumber crafter. You have no idea what you spewing sorry to say. I have already explained why cross world market is the issue and yet you going round with how sick this new changes are for economy stability.
I said this many times and gonna say one more time. IDC about your stable economy. All i care about is gil and this stable economy is making crafting not worth it anymore.

Chump change of 800k gil/hr may be good in ur book but its not for most crafters.

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WONT SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE OMNICRAFTERS!

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Originally Posted by IamBetterThanYou

Most of you guys are buyers or zelkova lumber crafter. You have no idea what you spewing sorry to say. I have already explained why cross world market is the issue and yet you going round with how sick this new changes are for economy stability.
I said this many times and gonna say one more time. IDC about your stable economy. All i care about is gil and this stable economy is making crafting not worth it anymore.

Chump change of 800k gil/hr may be good in ur book but its not for most crafters.

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You start a thread asking how other crafter feel, some don’t share the same thought as you and suddenly you go all “whoever disagree with me, know nothing”.
This isn’t how discussion work, is it

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Originally Posted by IamBetterThanYou

Most of you guys are buyers or zelkova lumber crafter. You have no idea what you spewing sorry to say. I have already explained why cross world market is the issue and yet you going round with how sick this new changes are for economy stability.
I said this many times and gonna say one more time. IDC about your stable economy. All i care about is gil and this stable economy is making crafting not worth it anymore.

Chump change of 800k gil/hr may be good in ur book but its not for most crafters.

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Found the selfish, greedy person.

And open market is a better market. Learn to adapt to it or fail.

I like it. Especially on spriggan. The sellers there sells so expensive that it is necessary for pple like me to change the server. Let me explain.
A chest for my drg costs on spriggan over 2 000 000 at the beginning. On ragnarok 1 000 000. Where will I buy? Same like black Pegasusm on some servers for 20 million on spriggan to 80 million.

And here I am on Spriggan selling you guys overpriced stuff and you don't buy it. You are ruining my economy Laott9! :p

This is exactly why we need competition, otherwise what stops the higher ups (skilled crafters) from skyrocketing the prices. Short of others actually making them for themselves but the point still stands.

Yes. The data center markets r the best we got so far. I have 10 million. I have a gatherer at lvl 80 but I can't never make that gil that crafter can. So 2 million is too much for a poor young who wants to save the world :P

Well, if the young lad needs something crafted, just poke me ingame. I'm sure we come to an agreement ;)

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Originally Posted by Nanami_Naniwa

Oh, come on now! You started this thread with "I just want to know how other crafters feel" and now when other crafters step forward, you accuse them of not knowing their stuff because they are "Zelkova Crafters"? Did it occur to you that maybe not all just agree to you? Don't ask for an opinion if you blame People to not know what they are talking about just because they don't agree with you.

I get you. I truly do. I focus mainly on crafting and selling stuff on the MB. And it hit me as well that the prizes for the new crafted gear dropped so fast and even the prizes for the mats from the maps. I really do hoped that they would at least stay somewhere above 2m for some time (planned with 5m to be honest - at least for the first week). But it didn't. Even if it is annoying that I'm not making that big of a profit as I used to be and that I need to adjust or "step up my game" I still think that the cross-server MB is a blessing. I can buy out the mats for the new glamour cheap and the glamour itself still sells for a good enough profit on my server. And I'm on Spriggan. There isn't much of a economy on Spriggan.

I care about gil. I care a looot about gil. But things have changed and we need to adjust. We just can't rely on our experience of the past anymore but have to take a closer look at the MB again to see where the wins and loses lies.

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So u r saying as a businessman I should be happy that we earn less now? Its not even a question of a crafter anymore. Its just logic. Idek how ANY crafter would support selling for lower price. I am sorry I should have never asked the question in the thread. It seems you people worry too much about others in a freaking game lol. I would agree if the prices effected the buyers to pay their rent or help with kidney dyalisis but we are talking about gils. Who in their right mind would be happy with a stable economy as a seller if u can take advantage of it?

Ik u said u care about gils but you give me the vibe that u are siding with the new economy. I am not and it sucks.

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Originally Posted by IamBetterThanYou

So u r saying as a businessman I should be happy that we earn less now? Its not even a question of a crafter anymore. Its just logic. Idek how ANY crafter would support selling for lower price. I am sorry I should have never asked the question in the thread. It seems you people worry too much about others in a freaking game lol. I would agree if the prices effected the buyers to pay their rent or help with kidney dyalisis but we are talking about gils. Who in their right mind would be happy with a stable economy as a seller if u can take advantage of it?

Ik u said u care about gils but you give me the vibe that u are siding with the new economy. I am not and it sucks.

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When then you have 2 options:

A) Adapt to the new market
B) Leave it

Bad for greedy crafters, good for everyone else. Luckily, I'm in the 'everyone else' group.

AND whoever said we need more competition in crafting in a game where crafting takes no skill but just investment, you are illogical. This isnt me playing zed vs zed. This is me farting vs someone else farting There needs no competition here. Too much fart will just smell worse just like how too much crafter is making earning gils worse.

No crafter in their right mind will even remotely like the idea of competition in crafting. Thats just not a skill based competition. Its just hitting ur back with a mallet and calling it competition.

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Originally Posted by IamBetterThanYou

AND whoever said we need more competition in crafting in a game where crafting takes no skill but just investment, you are illogical. This isnt me playing zed vs zed. This is me farting vs someone else farting There needs no competition here. Too much fart will just smell worse just like how too much crafter is making earning gils worse.

No crafter in their right mind will even remotely like the idea of competition in crafting. Thats just not a skill based competition. Its just hitting ur back with a mallet and calling it competition.

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You're right, no crafter likes competition because it gives them a monopoly on the market, which you can't have anymore.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

When then you have 2 options:

A) Adapt to the new market
B) Leave it

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Your maintality will take the game only so far. Look at Nokia. They had the same response to the buyers now look what they got.

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Originally Posted by IamBetterThanYou

Your maintality will take the game only so far. Look at Nokia. They had the same response to the buyers now look what they got.

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No idea what happened to Nokia, but I'm giving you the honest truth.
Why would I come to you if someone can give me what I want for less?

I think they need to combine all the linked worlds into one marketboard, which would make it clear what others were selling for, and let you set your prices accordingly.
Also, it would eliminate the need to world hop while price shopping, saving time, and likely extra server load handling the hops.

Someone else said things sells faster now. Which is a blatant lie. Things sell way slower now because people just hop server to find the cheapest. If u are not the cheapest it will take long time and not just cheapest in ur server. But across data centre.

Also running treasure map lost its hype as well. People did those for Huge profit. Thats how it should be. Now they dont worth shit. A freaking final floor item stays in mb for 10mil for 5 days whereas b4 they would go for 40mil on day 1. See the problem? Not only crafting is hurting but a huge money earner. Treasure maps will die as well.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

No idea what happened to Nokia, but I'm giving you the honest truth.
Why would I come to you if someone can give me what I want for less?

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You wouldnt and this is why I am saying this isnt a good move for crafters. We dnt have the time to check every server for every item we sell. As a buyer u buy 10 items . U can hope server. We cant. We sell way more and its not logical to hop server every 1hr to fix 10+ retainers full of items.

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Originally Posted by IamBetterThanYou

You wouldnt and this is why I am saying this isnt a good move for crafters. We dnt have the time to check every server for every item we sell. As a buyer u buy 10 items . U can hope server. We cant. We sell way more and its not logical to hop server every 1hr to fix 10+ retainers full of items.

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Well, unfortunately that's - as a crafter - your problem.
If someone else is willing to put in the effort to undercut you - guess who's getting my buisness when I need food/pots from the marketboard?

Right now, if you are a crafter, you have 2 options as far as the marketboard prices:

1) Server hop until you get undercut, then change your prices
2) Give the person who runs mogboard actual money to see every price at once on a consistent updated site

I'm still going to end up buying the cheapest pots when I need them, either way.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

I think they need to combine all the linked worlds into one marketboard, which would make it clear what others were selling for, and let you set your prices accordingly.
Also, it would eliminate the need to world hop while price shopping, saving time, and likely extra server load handling the hops.

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Yes that would make selling a bit faster but it would further crash the prices down. There would be trolls who would be happy to sell items for 2k gil profit. I kid u not. I seen them.

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Originally Posted by IamBetterThanYou

Someone else said things sells faster now. Which is a blatant lie. Things sell way slower now because people just hop server to find the cheapest. If u are not the cheapest it will take long time and not just cheapest in ur server. But across data centre.

Also running treasure map lost its hype as well. People did those for Huge profit. Thats how it should be. Now they dont worth shit. A freaking final floor item stays in mb for 10mil for 5 days whereas b4 they would go for 40mil on day 1. See the problem? Not only crafting is hurting but a huge money earner. Treasure maps will die as well.

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Then perhaps you should lower your prices to be competitive?

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

Then perhaps you should lower your prices to be competitive?

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Its not competitive. Some people dont understand value and increasing crafter increased those people. They will sell for a few profit to afford a cottage in goblet. Competition with them is like wasting time. So i have stopped crafting mostly and focus on gathering and fates/dungeon and retainers for white scrips.

Gathering/fates/whitescrips gives more gil per hour than crafting. You might say oh, but 4 logs cost 4k and 1 lumber costs 6k. Dont forge the 7 lightning crystal u used to craft costs 3k. This isnt competition. This is just wasting time now a days. If i cant turn a 4k raw mat into 10k then that isnt worth it. And thats exactly what the new market does. Makes profit less and for some product, useless.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

Well, unfortunately that's - as a crafter - your problem.
If someone else is willing to put in the effort to undercut you - guess who's getting my buisness when I need food/pots from the marketboard?

Right now, if you are a crafter, you have 2 options as far as the marketboard prices:

1) Server hop until you get undercut, then change your prices
2) Give the person who runs mogboard actual money to see every price at once on a consistent updated site

I'm still going to end up buying the cheapest pots when I need them, either way.

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Do what you want but you might wanna delete that comment. Mogboard is against ToS and is bannable.

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Originally Posted by IamBetterThanYou

Do what you want but you might wanna delete that comment. Mogboard is against ToS and is bannable.

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I'm not saying I'm paying for mogboard or anything, I wouldn't ever pay to find out prices. I'm not even a crafter, really.
As far as I'm aware talking about mogboard isn't against the ToS though.

Wait.. how would using Mogboard, a website be against the ToS exactly?

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Originally Posted by IamBetterThanYou

Its not competitive. Some people dont understand value and increasing crafter increased those people. They will sell for a few profit to afford a cottage in goblet. Competition with them is like wasting time. So i have stopped crafting mostly and focus on gathering and fates/dungeon and retainers for white scrips.

Gathering/fates/whitescrips gives more gil per hour than crafting. You might say oh, but 4 logs cost 4k and 1 lumber costs 6k. Dont forge the 7 lightning crystal u used to craft costs 3k. This isnt competition. This is just wasting time now a days. If i cant turn a 4k raw mat into 10k then that isnt worth it. And thats exactly what the new market does. Makes profit less and for some product, useless.

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Believe it or not, not everyone is going to value everything the same way you do. Just because more people are lowering the prices does not mean they are crashing the market. The market is evolving. More people playing the game, more people crafting and wanting to sell things, it's now easier for people to buy because they have access to other MB's.. I fail to see how this is so bad.

If you can make more gil by doing the fates and scripts and you don't need to play the MB game, then what exactly is the problem? If you view it as a waste of time, don't do it. Simple.

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Originally Posted by HumanNinjaToo

Believe it or not, not everyone is going to value everything the same way you do. Just because more people are lowering the prices does not mean they are crashing the market. The market is evolving. More people playing the game, more people crafting and wanting to sell things, it's now easier for people to buy because they have access to other MB's.. I fail to see how this is so bad.

If you can make more gil by doing the fates and scripts and you don't need to play the MB game, then what exactly is the problem? If you view it as a waste of time, don't do it. Simple.

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My problem is before I could sit and make millions. Now I have to work for it. Aka, do fates. Run to crystarium to deliver collectibles. Do dungeons. Etc.

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Originally Posted by IamBetterThanYou

My problem is before I could sit and make millions. Now I have to work for it. Aka, do fates. Run to crystarium to deliver collectibles. Do dungeons. Etc.

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No bees, no honey; No work, no money.

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Originally Posted by IamBetterThanYou

My problem is before I could sit and make millions. Now I have to work for it. Aka, do fates. Run to crystarium to deliver collectibles. Do dungeons. Etc.

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Imagine having to put in effort to gain gil.

Good in the larger picture. Prices start standardizing.

Some bad aspects, like if one fool stacks 99 soot black dyes everyone on ever server does. Who exactly needs 99 of a color?
Or all that crap sold for vendor price? There’s just more of it now...
- I think ot was Guild Wars 2 that dealt with that with a patch setting the minimum sale price to vendor + fee/tax + some small percentage...

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Originally Posted by IamBetterThanYou

My problem is before I could sit and make millions. Now I have to work for it. Aka, do fates. Run to crystarium to deliver collectibles. Do dungeons. Etc.

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Eh ... have it ever crossed your mind that what you're making now is the same of what people on other servers have been making all those years? If you want to cry how it's not fair to you now ... does this means it hasn't been fair to people on other server who has been making less than what you making?

Unless you're making Gil for the shake of hoarding Gil, the value of gil (or any currency, be it in game or real life) is always relative to their buying power. You can make 50k a year in Wyoming and live a comfortable middle class life, but making 50k a year in a place like New York is borderline poverty. Sure, if you were selling product A for 1mil gil before, because you need to buy a product B that cost 800k. But the people on high pop/high supply server, maybe they only make 100k selling product A, but that doesn't matter if product B is available at 50k.

There are one important distinction to make about Wealth acquisition: through Gil transfer and through Gil creation.

- When you sell something for 1mil and someone bought it for 1mil, you didn't "make" or "create" 1mil Gil, you acquired that from another player.
- When you get gil from doing World content, quest reward, weekly log, selling vendor trash ...etc... that's Gil creation ... aka printing new money.

Have a good understand of that concept (macro economy) and you will understand how crossworld market board actually make thing more fair and help combat RMT.

- The amount of gil people like you make fluctuate greatly depending on server population and supply.
- The amount of gil people generate does not change server to server. So that mean for a player who does not gather or craft, doing a FATE, completing a quest ...etc... on Gilgamesh will earn the same amount of Gil that someone else earn Lousioix.
- However, the one on Gilgamesh has access to abundant and cheap supply, while the one on Lousioix has to put up exorbitant price. A gilgamesh player can just do 10 Fate to buy something, while one on Lousioix may have to do 50 to buy the samething.
- On a macro-economy sense, a server like Lousioix already have a smaller pool of circulating Gil due to a smaller pop "generating" it, that already small amount is further tied up and funnel toward a few people like you at the top. While a serve like Gilgamesh have a much larger circulating Gil pool with a more even distribution, since it's harder to funnel the wealth to a fewer number of people.

So that's how it solves the issue of fairness. Now think about it further, between the two situation above, which do you think have more risk of players turning into RMT? The one that can reasonable acquire what they want through legitimately Gil creation relatively, or the one having to deal with a large gap between the in game reward and the price set by monopolized traders? PSA: most people don't just buy Gil just for the shake of having Gil.


Sorry you feel your bottom line was hurt, but you basically just experience the meaning of Globalized free trading. I never care about checking the price of other serves, but I do play with people from other serves i.e crossword statics. I always feel sorry when I heard my team-mate has to pay 4-5 times the amount of what Gilgamesh have on sale. But that never bother me, because I know if I can sell something for 4-5 time more, that also means I will also be paying 4-5 times for what I do want.