Regarding cross-world visiting and Hunts.

tl;dr Visitors should not get access to the entire map. They should only be able to access city locations.

Brynhildr has an entire community that loves and enjoys doing hunts but we're just being shit on by Balmung.

Balmung is doing a solid job of ruining everyone's hunts in Crystal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Calilel

If you're the conductor and your marks are being early pulled just link the area first, wait for everybody to load then link the exact spot.

---

The issue is more with S ranks because they have much longer cooldowns and can be detected with radar or sight from anywhere in the zone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyu-Momo

Agreed. Visitors should not be able to participate in hunts. If they want to hunt they should do it in their own world.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yitsy

tl;dr Visitors should not get access to the entire map. They should only be able to access city locations.

---

So if it meant you didn't have to put in any effort, you'd be fine with everyone else on the server being limited to one-eighth as many as hunts? True colors being shown lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xbob42

You might think "Ah, well, it's only the first few days. It'll clear up soon." Maybe. Until 5.0 hits. I think this is an issue that should be remedied as quickly as possible.

---

Odin server Hunt *Please help us*
The Hunt is no longer fun
Why are bad hunt behavior rewarded?
[Suggestion] Hunt target A, B & S ranks timer?
S rank Hunt early pull countermeasures
hunt hoggers
The Hunt 3.0
[Request] ARR Hunt Adjustments
Suggestion: S Rank Scaling System

Like I said, nothing new. You can see the same tired, unoriginal suggestions (sync, buff, invincibility) in those threads that are years old. You're only complaining now because you've been personally affected.

A Rank trains have been going relatively well, even with people facepulling/instapulling or baiting the pulls on Aether, the real issue is with S ranks. There's been a lot of deliberate trolling (messing with trackers and so forth) on the S ranks and that ill feeling has been slowly trickling into the A ranks since the few trouble makers are finding mass amounts of people to bait into getting mad and frustrated.

I'm on board with the idea of limiting it to a world native making an initial claim, but afterward everyone else being able to join in regardless of Wanderer status. I've missed out on a few S ranks these last few days myself because they're pulled before any of my relay shells have a chance to call them.

I feel as if you guys just need to get better at the game. Like, its called a hunt, so I located the creature and hunted them with my chums. Those seals are mine friend. SE better not remove Seal rewards from World Visitors or I'm going to freak kiddo.

I think the simplest solution to the S rank problem is to make S ranks invulnerable for 5 minutes after they spawn. That's plenty of time for spawners to find it, relay it, and let people arrive.

BTW according to the new ToS that particular balmung group can be reported for *drumroll* intentionally disrupting others playstyle.In this case alot of others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vnolan

Odin server Hunt *Please help us*
The Hunt is no longer fun
Why are bad hunt behavior rewarded?
[Suggestion] Hunt target A, B & S ranks timer?
S rank Hunt early pull countermeasures
hunt hoggers
The Hunt 3.0
[Request] ARR Hunt Adjustments
Suggestion: S Rank Scaling System

Like I said, nothing new. You can see the same tired, unoriginal suggestions (sync, buff, invincibility) in those threads that are years old. You're only complaining now because you've been personally affected.

---

Bullcrap, we have a dude notorious for early pulling on our server, but that at least provides some sort of social repercussions because everyone knows his name and dislikes him for it, rather than just the generic tag of "Wanderer" because dozens of people are doing it.

But if your point is there's a deeper problem with Hunts, well, no duh. They're a competitive MMO design in a non-competitive MMO, and with non-competitive rewards. I'd be all for reworking them. We call for band-aid fixes because a proper fix would likely mean completely redesigning them, which would take much longer, and I'd like a fix within the timeframe of the next expansion instead of 5 expansions from now when they finally get around to redoing it properly.

I just saw this scenario play out in the Crystal DC: A fellow hunter of mine and some friends spent the hour completing FATEs on Zalera to spawn the S rank Nuny. When he spawned, one of the notorious S rank early pullers instapulled it and killed it before he could run from where he was on the map and he didn't even get credit. I know this has always been a possibility with S rank spawns even before cross-world hunting, but on my server such players would be kicked from linkshells and generally shunned. There are no such repercussions for cross-world players, so there's basically no incentive for them to stop.

You can say that this is "working as intended," but I don't think it's a good system with these sorts of issues. Throwing all of the players in together means that there's no way for players to "police" the bad behavior and handle it within the community, and since killing an S rank isn't itself a reportable offense, these sorts of players aren't going to stop what they're doing. It leaves hunters that prefer to be cooperate and inclusive (which is most hunters in my experience) with their hands completely tied and many have vented their frustrations in chat over the past several days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xbob42

We call for band-aid fixes because a proper fix would likely mean completely redesigning them, which would take much longer, and I'd like a fix within the timeframe of the next expansion instead of 5 expansions from now when they finally get around to redoing it properly.

---

The Hunt 3.0

Quote:

---

I was discussing this with some friends earlier. One brought up the idea that as soon as someone comes within a certain amount of yalms of a hunt that a mark be placed on that particular hunt to make it invulnerable until about three to five minutes later to wait for everyone that wants to kill it to come in time. While people might complain, the spawn time in between all of the hunts are quite long and a few minutes of waiting should hardly matter.

Or make them harder to kill. It's pathetic how fast they drop right now. I expected more out of 3.0 hunt monsters myself.

---

Quote:

---

Why not just buff them a lot, like fates. So if a certain amount of people is close the hp and def rises - or - if the hp goes down fast, the def. rises a lot making it a loooot longer to kill.

---

Quote:

---

Said it a dozen times and I'll keep screaming it at the top of my lungs until SE hears it, "Increase the health pool of all hunt mobs A and above by 1000%". Or scale it to the entire zone. SOMETHING. It'll seriously fix so many problems.

---

Quote:

---

There really needs to be some kind of downtime in-between when the mob is pulled, and when it starts taking damage. Make it invulnerable for a couple of minutes and have it pop up on the map the second it's pulled. That or they all just need a huge HP boost. I feel like the higher rank marks should be very difficult to kill, and not just be a paper thin zerg-fest.

---

Comments are from June 2015. If they haven't made those minor adjustments since then why would they start now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xbob42

we have a dude notorious for early pulling on our server, but that at least provides some sort of social repercussions because everyone knows his name and dislikes him for it, rather than just the generic tag of "Wanderer" because dozens of people are doing it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DecaflmeRonfaure

but on my server such players would be kicked from linkshells and generally shunned. There are no such repercussions for cross-world players, so there's basically no incentive for them to stop.

---

SE needs to step in because you can't muscle the wanderers into playing your way?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DecaflmeRonfaure

You can say that this is "working as intended," but I don't think it's a good system with these sorts of issues.

---

It was never a good system, but many had no problem with it because they were able to have hunts served to them on a golden platter. They made their bed.

They specifically said at the live letter "you can visit other worlds and do hunts there", so wanderers are doing nothing wrong.

Cross-World has been positive for hunts.

1. People who work now can now see S calls as frequently as A calls, and more realistically achieve their 2k.

2. Servers that struggled to kill their S due to a low population, now most definitely do not.

3. If you miss an S while in a dungeon or due to an early pull, get it from another server instead.

4. You may miss more hunts due to early pulls and fast kills, but there are more hunts to get overall, so it solves itself.

5. Meeting hunter counterparts from other servers has been a great experience, like the WoL meeting Noctis.

6. SE acknowledged they die too fast and indicated they were intending to make them FATEs mid-5.0 sometime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vnolan

SE needs to step in because you can't muscle the wanderers into playing your way?

It was never a good system, but many had no problem with it because they were able to have hunts served to them on a golden platter. They made their bed.

---

Okay, stop talking like a creepy doctor who's happy the patient he told to stop eating Big Macs finally had a heart attack. "Oh me oh my, looks like someone should've listened to ol' Dr. Feelgood." Stop trying to address a community as though it is an individual. That's silly and you're conflating two completely different meta problems ("You didn't complain about it earlier how I wanted you to complain about it, now it's too late!") that have absolutely nothing to do with the actual problem.

And SE doesn't need to step in because we can't "muscle" Wanderers, they need to step in because they took a system that was already bad and somehow made it worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They specifically said at the live letter "you can visit other worlds and do hunts there", so wanderers are doing nothing wrong.

Cross-World has been positive for hunts. <snip for character length>

---

Wanderers doing nothing against the rule isn't the same as them not doing wrong. Unless you mean in terms of bans, no one's asking for Wanderers to be officially punished for their actions. We're talking about actions to prevent Wanderers from being able to negatively impact the servers they visit. People decide what is right or wrong, Square Enix only steps in occasionally in terms of EULA to enforce rules. You doing something within the rules of the game doesn't recuse you of being ostracized or criticized.

As for your list...

1. That's great! But they're less likely to actually get to them.

2. That's great! But they're less likely to actually get to them.

3. That's great! But you're less likely to actually get to them.

4. There's not nearly enough servers to visit to make this statement true. Maybe if you could visit like 40 other servers, but I imagine that'd probably exaggerate the issue even further.

5. That's great!

6. Oooh, FATEs. Now we can battle for emnity. That won't cause any issues!

Not a single thing you said would be made worse by limiting Wanderers to attacking A and S-Ranks already in progress, and they'd all be made better by doing so. What I'm suggesting would enhance cross-world cooperation, rather than competition. The Hunt already has a completely unfitting competitive element on each individual server, let alone with people who have no ties to the server and so can do whatever and throw up both middle fingers as they grab whatever they want, whenever they want.

Hell, even making the reward greater (and the challenge greater) for having more people would encourage more cooperation and just make things more fun.

Hit the character limit. But Jeeq, your first sentence seems to imply that you believe I want to make Wanderers unable to hunt. On the contrary, I think them being able to help with Hunts is great, them being able to snipe them (which obviously isn't against any rules, no one's making that claim) just makes them a nuisance. If they had to cooperate with server natives, they'd be seen as a net positive.

In a game where I can't even chat to my PvP team, Hunts seem woefully out of step with the design choices the team normally makes.

Crystal actually has a good deal of co-operation between servers for its A-train scene. Coeurl dragging some of the other servers into an organized method of doing things, and theres a lot of cross-posting trains in various discords.

S ranks though... Apparently Balmung is why we cant have nice S rank things.



I really miss the older era of games where servers could police themselves and being a giant dick had consequences.

Until we have better linkshell coordination (more cross-world linkshells with higher capacity) and World added to the location section of Flags like Yanxia, Balmung ( X 1.0, Y 1.0 ), we are having to rely partly on discords for coordination, so if you want to be more in the loop, try and get into your DC's discords.

There have been a lot of talk about how to amend the hunts to work better and decrease grief.

I had put forth my own idea here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...61#post4907861

Another is to make the hunts invulnerable for several minutes (like 10), with possibly a timer that didn't start until the hunt monster was engaged.

If the FATE system or scaling health is too complex to code for now, a simple 10 minute immunity from spawn for S ranks seems quite fair.

I agree with the thought of having S ranks immune for a short time after spawning, say 5-10 minutes. This would allow the spawners sufficient time to locate, and relay the hunt to others, and for others to actually arrive on time to get the kills. This doesn't prevent anyone from getting the kills and doesn't punish wanderers. In fact, it would allow wanderers more time to arrive since often there have been queues to go to other worlds that are long enough to cause people to miss out. In my mind, this so far has been the simplest and probably easiest to incorporate suggestion.

I agree with Jest that having a small window of invulnerability would solve many issues. On Crystal at least, we have a pretty decent relaying system in place already, and I get hunt notifications within seconds of them spawning many times, but that's not enough time to actually make it to the hunt if it's on a different server before it's killed. Many hunts have been killed within 120 seconds of spawn over the past 2 days, and that just isn't enough time for most people to make it to the hunt.

It's especially infuriating when you're the one that spawns the hunt and you can't make it to the hunt in that zone before it dies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They specifically said at the live letter "you can visit other worlds and do hunts there", so wanderers are doing nothing wrong.

Cross-World has been positive for hunts.

-snip-

---

Regarding each of your points:

1. People who work might see the call but they'll never make it in time if they're having to travel cross world to get there. S ranks are getting swarmed the moment they're found by pull on sight cross world players now.

2. Coeurl is low pop. You don't need 200 players to kill a S rank so we never struggled with them, thank you very much. Stop making assumptions about what things were like on the low pop servers.

3. Can agree here. If you were in a dungeon or doing something else when the spawn was relayed, there will always be another S rank to catch when you are not occupied.

4. Go back to #1. The potential for more hunts is canceled by the additional transport time involved. Things are dead before you get there.

5. Can agree again here. It has been fun doing Rank A trains with players from other worlds and visiting their worlds in turn to join their trains.

6. SE never said they're going to turn them into FATEs. They stated they were looking into possible solutions and that while FATEs were one thing they had considered, it would be such a major rework of the hunt system that they would be unlikely to do it.

There was some brief cross world drama over Rank As when the servers came up on the 23rd but that died out pretty quick. Since then things have been normal for the Rank As to the best of my knowledge.

The problem is the S ranks, as the hunt community predicted as soon as world visit was announced. SE has allowed isolated problem players to spread outside of the worlds they were confined to and into the entire data center. It has not solved any problems. It has created a larger one.

Sorry, but right now most of the Crystal worlds are getting plagued by a Balmumg S rank hunter that evidently already had a bad rep on Balmung because of his use of a third party program to be alerted to spawns immediately and pull on sight tactics. He even stated in zone shout on Coeurl after one of his pulls that he camps one of the city state Aetherytes then immediately goes to the world with a spawn when his program alerts him, that's it's our tough luck we aren't killing it before he gets there. The drama it is causing across multiple worlds has been ridiculous. Players from other worlds in Crystal were complaining about him in our zone shout at the same time.

Something needs to be done. Making S ranks immune to damage for 5 minutes after spawn would be a big help. Your pull on sight Balmung neighbor could go ahead and pull once the immunity wears off but at least it would give players who rely on linkshell relays instead of unauthorized third party programs a reasonable chance to get there and get their hit on the mark.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Making S ranks immune to damage for 5 minutes after spawn would be a big help.

---

Eureka still gets mass lag from time to time and it's capped at 144 players. Ixion required them to introduce additional instances to deal with the load and that was one server. 5 minutes would have everyone from all 8 servers trying to cram into a zone anytime an S rank spawned on any of the servers.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ed-an-instance

Quote:

---

Just happened on Odin as well. Noone got anything except one guy now being one Stygian Ash lighter.

---

Quote:

---

That's just too many people in one instance. Happened the other day on Cactuar when Foxy Lady spawned in one of the Yanxia Instances. Over 400 people in there trying to do the FATE, and most of us ended up red-dotting the majority of the FATE, so we only got bronze. Sadness.

---

Why would you ever attempt to spawn a hunt when there would be a chance you'd get no credit due to other people cramming in? Why would you ever help spawn a hunt when you'd have to go out of your way to miss it?

You'll be complaining just the same that players from other servers are preventing you from being able to do hunts when you're locked out of the zone.

As far as fixes go, invuln screams "I want hunts without putting in any effort". Just come out and say that so a more honest discussion can be had.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

1. People who work might see the call but they'll never make it in time if they're having to travel cross world to get there.

4. Go back to #1. The potential for more hunts is canceled by the additional transport time involved. Things are dead before you get there.

---

I've had time to make them all the way from zones on other worlds myself and seen them alive for quite a good amount of time in most cases, but my PC is specced to load fast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

2. Coeurl is low pop. You don't need 200 players to kill a S rank so we never struggled with them, thank you very much. Stop making assumptions about what things were like on the low pop servers.

---

I'm not making assumptions. I'm always told by people that the reason SE won't increase health is because of the effect it would have on low population worlds that already struggle to kill hunts. I don't know if they actually said that ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

6. SE never said they're going to turn them into FATEs. They stated they were looking into possible solutions and that while FATEs were one thing they had considered, it would be such a major rework of the hunt system that they would be unlikely to do it.

---

They went over several ideas and shot them down before getting to the FATE idea, which they said would require adding spawn conditions to the FATE system, something that is too much work until after 5.0. They didn't actually shoot down the FATE idea but rather said they can't do it before 5.0. Since they didn't shoot it down it looks like this is what they are minded to do in 5.x.

Whether they will still be minded to do that or something else by then, keeping up the pressure is good because they might not bother at all otherwise.

They should just make the spawn requirements stricter (for some) and make the spawn rates spammable.

This will ensure players have to put effort in to spawn it, but they will know it will spawn eventually. This will also remove the "has it been killed recently" dilemma of scouring a map for 30 minutes for no clue if it's ready or not. Yes we have Ariyala's, but only the organised linkshells use this. If a random level 70 player found an ARR/HW A rank and killed it alone, likelihood they will report it is low.

Some examples:

Southern Thanalan: Emerge victorious from all fates in a time period. This is an example of a good requirement to spawn something. Not one I'd change as there is dedication to this one
Mor Dhona: Do maps for a chance to spawn, alternatively every 20th (or any other number) map in the area spawns the S rank
Northern Thanalan: Kill earth sprites for a chance to spawn, alternatively every 250th kill spawns it
Western Thanalan (I think): Fish Glimmerscales for a chance to spawn, alternatively every 10th Glimmerscale spawns it

and so on.

On the subject of Ariyala, the amount of people trolling by misreporting kill times has skyrocketed ever since World travel opened.

Someone has been mismarking the entirety of the Aether DC's S ranks every few hours like clockwork and it makes me think they have a macro running just to troll people.

Thankfully, there are better trackers with functional blacklists to prevent such behavior.

So far I do struggle to reach the S ranks on time especcially ARR ones. Except if per chance I help spawning them or join a very early server. But then still they often get sniped before I can even inform my server locals of the hunt on time because it is dead before people from outside the zone can even reach. Same for I can't even get to S ranks on other servers because the queue is so long since all the hunters swarm there.

Current S rank count is a little over 360 (in 4 years, a lot of calls happen when I'm in some dungeon or other party so I can't just drop all and the party for something that mostly gets sniped before I can even /pet it's head) I doubt ever getting the chance to even stroke the tail of that tiger mount on my character ... except for people more fortunate to actually agressively make it on time to snipe before others can reach.

Malboro had it's snipe moments in the past, but also the times of peaceful waiting (in which I thrived whenever I had the time and energy)... well that clearly is over. Especially when the swarm happens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by -Mira-

So far I do struggle to reach the S ranks on time especcially ARR ones. Except if per chance I help spawning them or join a very early server. But then still they often get sniped before I can even inform my server locals of the hunt on time because it is dead before people from outside the zone can even reach.

---

Most of the time, there are local calls and since people have time to make it from other worlds, they should have enough time to make it from their own. Regrettably, informing locals is occasionally not successful before it gets pulled (in some cases they all seem to be asleep).

The 64 people in my CWLS say they are getting far more S ranks in the limited time they have to hunt than they ever did before. It remains true that if you load too slowly, you either need to consider installing an SSD or you need to try and pre-empt when hunts will spawn to make them. A lot of them spawn at specific times, and you also won't miss them on other worlds if you are the person that spawned it. You could also just go for Stormblood calls since they often last long.

(We need to be in more than one CWLS and they need a larger capacity so we can better get the message to locals)

There is a reason folks are making it from out of world first, they're part of CWLS and Discord servers that call it for their own folk. They have no incentive to call it out to locals and let it spread through local LS first they want their people in there.

Furthermore Wanderers have absolutely no incentive to wait patiently for locals to gather they want to pull as soon as they are ready so they can move onto the next pull on whatever server. Locals are only gathering for local spawns they aren't planning to travel to other worlds for the same S rank x amount of times.

Locals on small servers are the ones who are getting screwed, we have fewer players and fewer ls to spawn and report spawns compared to big cross-world groups. The pattern is too obvious every time it's a wanderer that pulls it early and every time it's locals complaining about missing the pull, not wanderers.

One possible solution is to bar wanderers from pulling hunt mobs. They can show up, party up, and participate but it has to be a local that pulls. While it's not a perfect solution by any means it makes for less headaches and if a local pulls early then it's a different issue, less obvious animosity for wanderers.

I suppose you could also put a CD on a player when they get credit for killing a particular S rank. Make it so they can't kill that same S rank on another server within a day or two. That seems like an extreme solution to me though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HKagemusha

There is a reason folks are making it from out of world first, they're part of CWLS and Discord servers that call it for their own folk. They have no incentive to call it out to locals and let it spread through local LS first they want their people in there.

---

A balanced CWLS will have 5 or so people from each world who can relay it to their world's linkshells. If many of them are also those world's spawners or relayers, they often get the message to them because of that as well. The purpose of the discord servers are to get the message to people unlucky enough to not be in a CWLS (given their limited capacity). If locals aren't at least in the discords then perhaps they don't want those hunts enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HKagemusha

Furthermore Wanderers have absolutely no incentive to wait patiently for locals to gather they want to pull as soon as they are ready so they can move onto the next pull on whatever server.

---

On Crystal that depends. If it's a hunt that spawns on all worlds at the exact same time, they will pull almost as soon as they get there so they can get all of the other ones before they die. This is understandable. If two hunts happen to be up at the same time, that usually signals that it's time to pull the one they are already at. If there are no other hunts up they will usually wait 2-4 minutes, unless there is a scenario like low level proximity aggro.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HKagemusha

Locals are only gathering for local spawns they aren't planning to travel to other worlds for the same S rank x amount of times.

---

If they care that much about hunting then restricting themselves to their own worlds is shooting themselves in the foot, and sticking in the past. If they are happy with the fewer local hunts they make it to now, then that's fine. The important thing is to adapt to the new climate in one way or another.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vnolan

If hunts are alive for too long, the game will experience issues from all of the players zoning in. If the hunts live for only a little while longer, why ask for it under the guise of having more being able to participate?

---

this would be solved by disallowing visitors from participating as dramatically less people would be zoning in. Without being able to participate, they wouldn't have a reason to come.

and im not saying this based on hunt getting killed quickly. i can usually get there in time. but the sheer amount of people makes the hunt not render. I'm not lagging, i have a beefy computer with fast inet. I can zone in really fast. But if enough people are near the hunt then it just wont render.

And before you say "just aoe around it you'll get credit" I (and everyone else) shouldn't have to settle for "credit" because the game's limitations wouldn't let them actually get full credit. It's no fault of the players so why should they be punished or get a lesser reward because the game wont render the hunt because there are more people preset than the game was designed for DUE to the ability to cross world hunt.

Another possible solution would be to do what SE has already claimed they've done but has remained to be seen; Giving render priority to hunt mobs over other players ESPECIALLY players not in your party.
IMO the render priority should be Player>Teammates>Hunt>other players>Non hunt enemies>Chocobo>minion>everything else. And Homeworlders should get priority rendering of hunt over visitors. This is fair to everyone in that anyone visiting would then have priority in their respective world were I to ever visit to hunt.

The system as is is broken. A lot of people can't participate due to no fault of their own. They are there on time, they have good connections and good computers, but due to the sheer amount of people still can't participate or have to settle for partial credit when they could do more if simply the hunt would render.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vnolan

I disagree. You should wish for as much discord and chaos as possible. Better chance of an overhaul to the antiquated system.

---

Sorry we are unable to overhaul the antiquated system because you know spaghetti code.