Give the possible Eureka 5.X its own weapon, and separate Relic from it

I just have to say I had more fun making the eureka relic than I did making either the ARR or HW relic. Do you remember those awful books we had to do? All that materia we had to buy? The desynth materials? Oh god it was awful. Even if eureka was tedious in parts, at least it felt fresh most the time. The only really awful grind in there is the pagos light step.


I hope the next relic involves a romance with Gerolt though. :v

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

This is part of what Yoshi P said yesterday in the BA thread.

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How I've read that from the thread you've provided is it doesn't specifically state the 5.0 relic will be part of Eureka-like content, only that they would be trying something new. So is this new thing part of upgrading relics, or could it just be optional content like Diadem but has a kind of incentive to keep going in there? Like I don't mind there being one or two stages (for the relic) in a new Eureka-type area, but not four as we have at the moment, I'd like to see some older stages come back or at least be an alternative.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

I hope the next relic involves a romance with Gerolt though. :v

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Well that would potentially speed up the process considerably.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

Do you remember those awful books we had to do? All that materia we had to buy? The desynth materials? Oh god it was awful.

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Someone said books? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPilVcgyqoc

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Originally Posted by Lacan

I hope the next relic involves a romance with Gerolt though. :v

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Stay tuned for the new 5.0 fetch quest, where Gerolt asks you to bring him booze XD

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Originally Posted by Kurando

How I've read that from the thread you've provided is it doesn't specifically state the 5.0 relic will be part of Eureka-like content, only that they would be trying something new. So is this new thing part of upgrading relics, or could it just be optional content like Diadem but has a kind of incentive to keep going in there? Like I don't mind there being one or two stages (for the relic) in a new Eureka-type area, but not four as we have at the moment, I'd like to see some older stages come back or at least be an alternative.

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Koji also stated in fan fest they are doing a "Eureka like content due to how successful it was". By that, I think they mean a dangerous place that you can't go there solo. They can't do that in the open world, since that would hinder a lot of the casual players back (but, what would happen if we include the trust system?). But I'm not sure if we're going to go back to the current Eureka zones for some steps. They pretty much wrapped the story of that place up with BA. But you never know, they might require us to get certain materials from certain NMs that can be used for the 5.0 one.

The problem with the Eureka vs farming old content for the relic thing is that by removing the necessity of doing old content for the relic you've pretty much killed most of the incentive to do it for most people.

If the relic comes only from Eureka, then what do you even do in the game once you have all classes at 70 aside from the daily expert roulette and Eureka? There's no incentive to do anything else and that makes end game really boring, especially if you happen to dislike the type of gameplay Eureka provides.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Now if the new content in 5.0 builds on the same elemental level as Eureka, then even Hydatos could be solo’ed (not BA though lol).

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I think it should, but with a twist. Something like a "Key Item" you gain at the very beginning of ShadowBringers that allows you gain elemental Xp everywhere up to level 60. That way, by doing the SH MSQ, dungeons, etc, you could catch up and wouldn't have to do Eureka to enter the next content.

It should be noted, however, than PotD is required to enter HoH, so Eureka story being required might be a thing /shrug

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Originally Posted by Ameela

The problem with the Eureka vs farming old content for the relic thing is that by removing the necessity of doing old content for the relic you've pretty much killed most of the incentive to do it for most people.

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Roulettes already put you in old content, and Wondrous Tails is always updated with cap level HQ gear

I prefer the idea of the relic having different methods to progress, as has been done before, with Eureka-like content being one of the possibilities. More options are never a bad thing, and those who strongly dislike one method or the other can go with their preferred method. The quest steps can provide the story around the relic; progress could be made either through old content or a Eureka-like zone.

Also, I feel like Eureka in general would be better with things like daily quests/challenges to give players more direction if they want it, and a way to provide incremental progress to those who don't like to invest large chunks of time all at once (leaving the possibility open for those who like to grind to continue progressing outside of these side activities). How about treasure hunts based on hints from various NPCs and signposts in the zone? Pop items that can be farmed (or given as daily quest rewards) for mini boss monsters that scale depending on your party size and composition?

For me personally, I'd like more content that can be done with varying party sizes. My husband and I got some enjoyment out of Eureka simply because we could go in as a duo and play together in a relaxed way without needing a full party to progress. Most content is either "solo only" or "party required" with no room for parties of varying size. I'd like a little more flexibility, and Eureka-like content has that. I'd just prefer to see more options for incremental progress, as we got bored quickly with chaining mobs for light or to try and spawn an NM.

I'm just going to drop usual comment about the appearance of the Eureka relic weapons.

They are not deserving to be called relic weapons because they look absolutely horrible, almost to the point I feel robbed of the hours I put into Eureka to get a weapon that is supposed to be an almighty weapon fitting of legends, and not a lame fish-fin piece of crap that looks worse than crafted primal weapons or weaker than Heavensward Awoken stage.

Their appearance is so weak in comparison to past relic weapons.

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Originally Posted by Raiu

I'm just going to drop usual comment about the appearance of the Eureka relic weapons.

They are not deserving to be called relic weapons because they look absolutely horrible, almost to the point I feel robbed of the hours I put into Eureka to get a weapon that is supposed to be an almighty weapon fitting of legends, and not a lame fish-fin piece of crap that looks worse than crafted primal weapons or weaker than Heavensward Awoken stage.

Their appearance is so weak in comparison to past relic weapons.

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To be fair though, that is a matter of opinion. I personally love the final look of a lot of the weapons. This is something they can't possibly please everyone with. Hopefully there is a least one step you like the look of?

I wish Relics were relevant for their raid tier, but they're always behind even the primal weapons...why? It's all this work and the payoff is a custom weapon that's useful like 6 months after the raid tier is released. The lifespan of the relic weapon is like 4 months until 5.0?



In the future, relic weapons upgrades should align with being the 2nd best weapon of each raid tier--or on par with Augmented tome weapon. Instead they're worse than that, and only useful on the last stage, when the raid tier has been out for 6 months??

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Originally Posted by Raiu

Their appearance is so weak in comparison to past relic weapons.

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I like them quite a bit. Sorry you don't feel the same way but you can't please everyone. WHM, BLM, RDM and PALLY are all pretty sweet in my opinion. Have a few others I'm planning on as well.

Or just make the Eureka experience better to go through. There's no reason to have this many weapons when we know Relic will always be the best one in the end of it all.

Hmm, what about if they combine the rebuilding of Ishgard into the Relic quest grind? Donating items could result in a specific part needed for a stage of the Relic (in place of x tokens/crafts to exchange for y parts) being given to us from the Ishgard treasure chamber or excavated during renovations, under cornerstones or something. Since the rebuilding of Doma was time-gated each week, that would let people do just about any content they wanted, and get gil while getting the Relic in a non-grindy way as well.

Of course, one could feel rebuilding Ishgard wouldn't be optional then, but it would give more life/players to Ishgard again.

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Originally Posted by splinter1545

Or just make the Eureka experience better to go through. There's no reason to have this many weapons when we know Relic will always be the best one in the end of it all.

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In the end of it all, that's usually the last half year at best of the expansion being out before the next one comes up. I've played other MMOs before that give you multiple types of weapons you can go after at once.

And don't forget the main point...NOT EVERYONE LIKES EUREKA TYPE CONTENT. Some people only play a couple hours a day due to real life being first. Not everyone wants to be forced into doing only one thing for a weapon to upgrade. Not everyone wants to be in a mindless instance of 144 people where people are always complaining about moochers, when many of said 'moochers' are people too low leveled to properly be able to damage a damn thing there. Sure, there are people that enjoy Eureka, but there's just as many that don't.

There IS reason to give players more options, you just don't agree with them I guess.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

Some people only play a couple hours a day due to real life being first.

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Those people have the tome weapons. People should really stop pretending that the Relic is the only weapon available outside of Raids.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Those people have the tome weapons. People should really stop pretending that the Relic is the only weapon available outside of Raids.

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You're ignoring the fact that the relic has had its own story in 2.X/3.X, with 3.X's relic story being the most interesting thus far. You actually gave life to the weapon and it grew with you, only for it to be cast aside because it's an afterthought at this point. A LOT of people really liked the story for the relic in 3.X and how they added it to eureka is just a kick to the crotch. If they're going to kill the story for the relic by making it an add-on to a special instance, where you can't do anything else there but work on that one thing the whole time, then give the Eureka like instances in the future their own weapons, and give back the story driven relic.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Those people have the tome weapons. People should really stop pretending that the Relic is the only weapon available outside of Raids.

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In the same vein, people should also really stop pretending that the Relic should be restricted to only their own preferred content.

Like, I'm not against people having Eureka as content. If they like Eureka and the end-game it provides, more power to them and I hope they continue to get content like it to satisfy them.

However, the Relic and Eureka are 2 DIFFERENT pieces of content. The previous 2 relics existed independently of Eureka/Diadem as such, it has been viewed as content for players outside those that liked Eureka/Diadem.

Thus, the Relic should be kept accessible outside of Eureka/Diadem.

If this means that Eureka becomes dead, then it's simply a case of them needing to find some alternative means to make people actually care about going there, rather than sticking the highly valued Relic weapon there. Like, Relics already exist in a spot where they're big grinds for little pay off (Given how often they are actually relevant as weapons compared to alternatives), there's no reason to further apply specific content locks to them.

I mean, your signature with the quote from Yoshida speaks volumes. About how Eureka won't be a place where everyone would want to go. This suggests that people who go to Eureka should be people that are going to Eureka for the content of Eureka. While the Relic completely contradicts that, because it then makes Eureka a place where everyone wants to go because everyone wants to get the shiny relic for the expansion.

If your only reason for liking Eureka is because you get the Relic, then you really need to re-evaluate about whether you actually like the content or merely just like the reward.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

You're ignoring the fact that the relic has had its own story in 2.X/3.X, with 3.X's relic story being the most interesting thus far.

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Which was completely unrelated to the content you actually did for that relic, so irrelevant on that topic. In fact, the Eureka weapons are more related to Eureka lorewise, especially the very final stages, that any previous relic to the content they asked you to do.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

However, the Relic and Eureka are 2 DIFFERENT pieces of content. The previous 2 relics existed independently of Eureka/Diadem as such, it has been viewed as content for players outside those that liked Eureka/Diadem.

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The Zodiac and the Anima were separated, the Eureka weapon isn't (In case the name wasn't clear). And, like I said above, there is a lore connection between the two. Also, the Zodiac was the only weapon available in 2.x if you wanted to keep the (almost) max ilvl at each patch without raiding. This was not the case in HW and SB. And, finally, the Anima had a step tied to Diadem and would have probably had others if Diadem didn't fail spectacularly.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

I mean, your signature with the quote from Yoshida speaks volumes. About how Eureka won't be a place where everyone would want to go. This suggests that people who go to Eureka should be people that are going to Eureka for the content of Eureka.

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People don't go into content just for the content, you have to give them a reward for that. It's the same for everything. Remove gear from Savage, and it will be on life support after the first clears.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

While the Relic completely contradicts that, because it then makes Eureka a place where everyone wants to go because everyone wants to get the shiny relic for the expansion.

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Except that, no, not everyone does the relic. Right now, the number of characters having done an Anima is still a very small part of the playerbase, despite being nerfed to death. And I'm pretty sure even the Zodiac is still a rarity, despite it being actually competitive in its own time.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

If your only reason for liking Eureka is because you get the Relic, then you really need to re-evaluate about whether you actually like the content or merely just like the reward.

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Considering how many people did Eureka despite hating it, just for the relic, it seems priority is a bigger issue for them. Me ? I like the relic, but I only did it because I like Eureka. I would have completely skipped if it was just another tomestone farm ad nauseum like the two previous ones.

In fact, the sentence above is probably the biggest clue on how likely the next relic will be tied to an exploration type content. Because it made people do it, even if they didn't really liked it. So, from a strategic PoV, it was brilliant. The thing, now that exploration content has already been confirmed for 5.x, is to give feedback on how to improve the content.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

If your only reason for liking Eureka is because you get the Relic, then you really need to re-evaluate about whether you actually like the content or merely just like the reward.

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I reckon the only reason 95%+ of people did it was because it had a reward they liked locked behind it, because that's why people do things in this game.
Doing it for the reward and finding it fun are not mutually exclusive, but without a good reward fun alone won't keep the content relevant for long.

It's the same with Savage raids, people do it for the gear locked behind it. Without that gear numbers would drop.

Same with Extreme trials, they want the primal weapons and mounts. Without those, people would stop running them.

Same with Alliance raids, people want the catch up gear and upgrade tokens. You get the picture.

Hell, it's the same with expert roulette. Who in their right mind would be running the same 2 or 3 expert dungeons over and over again if it didn't give lots of tomes?

The majority of the population aren't doing content because it's fun, they're doing it because they want the stuff that comes from it. The more fun they have getting those rewards the better, people having fun stick around and people not having fun burn out and leave, but character progression in some form is the key to getting most people to actually do stuff.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

People don't go into content just for the content, you have to give them a reward for that. It's the same for everything. Remove gear from Savage, and it will be on life support after the first clears.

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Then like I said, put another reward at the end. The reward doesn't have to be the Relic, unless that's the only reward with enough pull to get people to do the content.

Which is also a sign that the content sucks.

People do normal raids all the time, even though they can get gear from tomes. Savage has additional draw from having slightly better gear. Is slightly better gear worth grinding out Savage? Not really, unless the content of Raids was actually enjoyed.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Except that, no, not everyone does the relic.

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The Relic still has a pull on people. Again, I mentioned that the grind associated with the Relic is already a barrier to push some people away. That's part of what makes the Relic desirable. If everyone got easy peasy Relics then the desire for them would decrease.

There's no reason to add additional barriers by locking Relics behind specific content.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Considering how many people did Eureka despite hating it, just for the relic, it seems priority is a bigger issue for them. Me ? I like the relic, but I only did it because I like Eureka. I would have completely skipped if it was just another tomestone farm ad nauseum like the two previous ones.

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"I only did it because I like Eureka. But I wouldn't have done it if it didn't have the Relic"

Oxymoron much?

As I said, put another reward behind Eureka if it needs something to work towards

There's no reason it has to be the Relic. Unless Eureka as content sucks so bad that it's the only way to get people to actually play it, including if they hate the content (Which is contrary to the Yoshida quote you carry in your signature)

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Doing it for the reward and finding it fun are not mutually exclusive, but without a good reward fun alone won't keep the content relevant for long.

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Yeah, but there's a difference between doing it for the reward because the reward is so enticing that you will do the content regardless of if you like it or not. And then doing it for the reward because you like the content.

For example, I mentioned earlier Savage raiding. Objectively, Savage Raiding gives the best gear in the game.

But not everyone does it, because they don't find it fun and the reward of slightly better gear than they can obtain through other means doesn't have enough pull on them to get them to go through this content they don't find fun.

People farm EX Trials for gear and mounts. But if they didn't find it fun then they wouldn't (They could just wait 2 years and un-Sync them for mounts...) because they can get gear from alternate means.

With Eureka, you have people who hate the content that are going through it purely because of the Relic reward. Yes, there are alternate means to getting gear, but the Relic is unique within an expansion. There is only 1 Relic and only 1 item that is glamorous as the Relic per expansion.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Then like I said, put another reward at the end. The reward doesn't have to be the Relic, unless that's the only reward with enough pull to get people to do the content.

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The content was designed for relic. The relic wasn't put into the content to make people play it. This obsession with trying to push that line gets pretty old. They didn't design Eureka and then say hey how can we get people to play this, oh, I know lets put a relic weapon in it. There doesn't need to be a separate weapon for Eureka if there is a new one. It's the relic progression that was used in 4.0 and it remains to be seen what they have planned for 5.0.

Complaining about it is fine. You can ask although I would suggest plans are already in full swing for the next relic progression and we'll have to wait and see what they have in mind. Personally I hope it simply isn't a clone/repeat of what we have now but something new.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Then like I said, put another reward at the end. The reward doesn't have to be the Relic, unless that's the only reward with enough pull to get people to do the content.

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There's also no reason to not put the relic in there apart the very personal and thus irrelevant when considering the whole playerbase "I don't like Eureka". Despite what people claim, Relics are niche rewards, completed by a small part of the playerbase, so it makes sense to create a niche content for them. On top of that, Relics are a continuous progression system, so it also makes sense to put it in a content with several instances, instead of putting each part in completely unrelated bits of content or, like in the past, the exact strictly same content, famously ARF for each tome step.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

People do normal raids all the time, even though they can get gear from tomes.

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Yes, that's because of the weekly cap on tomestones.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Savage has additional draw from having slightly better gear. Is slightly better gear worth grinding out Savage? Not really, unless the content of Raids was actually enjoyed.

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You're thinking backwards. You want gear, and fun will keep you motivated to obtain that gear. Not the other way round.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

"I only did it because I like Eureka. But I wouldn't have done it if it didn't have the Relic"
Oxymoron much?

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No, reading failure on your part since I said nothing about "not doing Eureka if it didn't have the relic", but only "not doing the Relic if I didn't like the method of obtaining it, i.e; Eureka".

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Originally Posted by Kalise

There's no reason it has to be the Relic. Unless Eureka as content sucks so bad that it's the only way to get people to actually play it, including if they hate the content (Which is contrary to the Yoshida quote you carry in your signature)

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Like I said above, yes, there is, because they're both niche part of the game, and people heavily complained that the Relic didn't have its own content in ARR and HW. And, as I said numerous times, if you suffer though Eureka just for the relic, when it has absolutely no competitive value whatsoever, then you definitely need to re-evaluate your relation with the game.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

There is only 1 Relic and only 1 item that is glamorous as the Relic per expansion.

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Well, considering Alex Savage gear was heavily popular because it was dyable compared to Alex normal gear, glamour is a concern for it too. But people obviously understood that Savage gear would require Savage Raids. Since it was announced very early that the Relic would be a Eureka weapon, the dots should have been connected…

Or the answer is far more simple than that, and it's that people don't really care about options and would have been perfectly fine with a Eureka weapon if Eureka was fun for them. But since it's not, and a simple "I don't like Eureka" would be met with "Then don't do it", they hide themselves behind "Options and love for all players" even though not all players do the Relics.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

The content was designed for relic. The relic wasn't put into the content to make people play it.

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Do you have proof of that?

Do you have records of their design team talking about how they want to put this new content around the Relic?

Or are you going off the same information as everyone else?

Which suggests that they looked at Diadem and noticed it failed, so they wanted to figure out a way to draw people to the content even if it sucked. So they put the Relic in there.

They could have put literally any reward at the end of Eureka. I mean, half of the actual content there doesn't even directly reference building your Relic. Like Anemos doesn't say literally a damn thing about any kind of weapon, it just goes on about the weirdness that is Magicite. While your mission is to try and see what happened to the place and potentially find survivors.

With Gerolt being there because...???

Both other Relics where Gerolt needs to build you a weapon because: ARR "You found an ancient weapon and it intrigued him enough to stop making kettles and mend it for you (At the behest of Jalzahn who bribes him with homemade liquor)"/HW "Gerolt is in debt to Rowena and gets stuck helping a kid with his Anima research to pay off his debt"

Both started with the focus of "I need a really good blacksmith to make a unique weapon of legendary proportions".

Rather than being a completely unrelated story until it then became about the weapon and justified Gerolt's involvement. (Though, it was never really explained about the reason these strange crystals you found could be hammered into weapons and make them stronger... You just randomly talk to Gerolt and he lets you upgrade your level 50 equipment into Anemos gear...)

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Originally Posted by Kalise

(Though, it was never really explained about the reason these strange crystals you found could be hammered into weapons and make them stronger... You just randomly talk to Gerolt and he lets you upgrade your level 50 equipment into Anemos gear...)

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Thanks for confirming that you didn't do Eureka till the end (Expected, obviously), and thus, have no clue why the weapons are connected to it, but still complain about how they're not.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

There's also no reason to not put the relic in there apart the very personal and thus irrelevant when considering the whole playerbase "I don't like Eureka". Despite what people claim, Relics are niche rewards, completed by a small part of the playerbase, so it makes sense to create a niche content for them. On top of that, Relics are a continuous progression system, so it also makes sense to put it in a content with several instances, instead of putting each part in completely unrelated bits of content or, like in the past, the exact strictly same content, famously ARF for each tome step.

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Except the part when you have niche rewards that are doing fine as they are. Then you also have niche content that you want to make work.

Ideally, the best thing you can do is keep them separate. Since then you will get more relevant feedback about them. Rather than having Eureka feedback being flooded by people who hate the content but feel forced to grind it out to obtain the niche content that they previously worked at.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

You're thinking backwards. You want gear, and fun will keep you motivated to obtain that gear. Not the other way round.

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That depends on the player. I play games for fun. Just getting gear is not fun. If it was, more people would just Tomestone farm.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Like I said above, yes, there is, because they're both niche part of the game, and people heavily complained that the Relic didn't have its own content in ARR and HW. And, as I said numerous times, if you suffer though Eureka just for the relic, when it has absolutely no competitive value whatsoever, then you definitely need to re-evaluate your relation with the game.

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Well, the thing is, for BOTH previous Relics, I liked farming them. That was part of my content. Farming Relics (Plural, multiple Zodiacs and multiple Animas).

Then one day they decide to instead of having this niche grind that I liked doing as part of my gameplay, they stick it into this crappy Eureka place that I dislike to try and give the crappy content more value.

As such, I have not been suffering through Eureka, but this means that I no longer have my content where I farm for Relics.

Meanwhile, the target audience of Eureka, have mixed feelings about the Relic, some don't like its looks. While others don't care about it either way because they just liked the content (While the reward doesn't actually benefit them in any way during the content either)

Then you get people like you who like Eureka but hate Relics (In the form they have existed in both previous iterations) whom are adamant about defending Relics in Eureka because it specifically caters to you and only people like you.

Meanwhile, we have threads like these, that involve people who are in the same boat as me, where we ALREADY enjoyed our niche Relic farms but don't like this new niche content Eureka but get our content ripped away and stuck behind Eureka for what purpose?

As I've mentioned multiple times now and being completely overlooked every single time, why exactly does the Relic HAVE to be the reward for Eureka? There's limitless options of rewards that would be possible for enticing players to play Eureka, including ones that would actually benefit Eureka players in the content they're enjoying.

If we're just merging niche content for the sake of putting niche content together. Why not go the extra mile? Go stick Eureka behind PvP grind. PvP is niche content. So is Eureka. Stick them both together!

Oh, Gold Saucer is also niche content. Lets put Eureka behind PvP content that is locked behind MGP so you have to do Gold Saucer minigames to access it!

What great and interesting design that wouldn't just upset players who currently liked niche content the way it is! /s

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

You're thinking backwards. You want gear, and fun will keep you motivated to obtain that gear. Not the other way round.

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That depends on the player. I play games for fun. Just getting gear is not fun. If it was, more people would just Tomestone farm.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Like I said above, yes, there is, because they're both niche part of the game, and people heavily complained that the Relic didn't have its own content in ARR and HW. And, as I said numerous times, if you suffer though Eureka just for the relic, when it has absolutely no competitive value whatsoever, then you definitely need to re-evaluate your relation with the game.

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Well, the thing is, for BOTH previous Relics, I liked farming them. That was part of my content. Farming Relics (Plural, multiple Zodiacs and multiple Animas).

Then one day they decide to instead of having this niche grind that I liked doing as part of my gameplay, they stick it into this crappy Eureka place that I dislike to try and give the crappy content more value.

As such, I have not been suffering through Eureka, but this means that I no longer have my content where I farm for Relics.

Meanwhile, the target audience of Eureka, have mixed feelings about the Relic, some don't like its looks. While others don't care about it either way because they just liked the content (While the reward doesn't actually benefit them in any way during the content either)

Then you get people like you who like Eureka but hate Relics (In the form they have existed in both previous iterations) whom are adamant about defending Relics in Eureka because it specifically caters to you and only people like you.

Meanwhile, we have threads like these, that involve people who are in the same boat as me, where we ALREADY enjoyed our niche Relic farms but don't like this new niche content Eureka but get our content ripped away and stuck behind Eureka for what purpose?

As I've mentioned multiple times now and being completely overlooked every single time, why exactly does the Relic HAVE to be the reward for Eureka? There's limitless options of rewards that would be possible for enticing players to play Eureka, including ones that would actually benefit Eureka players in the content they're enjoying.

If we're just merging niche content for the sake of putting niche content together. Why not go the extra mile? Go stick Eureka behind PvP grind. PvP is niche content. So is Eureka. Stick them both together!

Oh, Gold Saucer is also niche content. Lets put Eureka behind PvP content that is locked behind MGP so you have to do Gold Saucer minigames to access it!

What great and interesting design that wouldn't just upset players who currently liked niche content the way it is! /s

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Thanks for confirming that you didn't do Eureka till the end (Expected, obviously), and thus, have no clue why the weapons are connected to it, but still complain about how they're not.

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Please tell me where in Anemos it explains why Gerolt is there at all or where it mentions why your gear is upgradable with the random crystals you have found.

Sure, if LATER he shows up after you LATER find out how weapons are connected to the place, that would make sense. But he's there right from the get go but is barely involved until Pyros.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Do you have proof of that?

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Seriously... so you believe they designed Eureka and then later decided to put the relic in it to get people to play it? Ok, live in your little bubble it's fine. I'm not going to argue with you. Let me just say I enjoyed this relic progression immensely and am really happy they did it.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

As I said, put another reward behind Eureka if it needs something to work towards

There's no reason it has to be the Relic.

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Eureka doesn't have to have the relic. Neither though, do you.

How about this, we get the relic for Eureka 2, and you get the consolation prize weapon you're trying to palm off on us?

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Eureka doesn't have to have the relic. Neither though, do you.

How about this, we get the relic for Eureka 2, and you get the consolation prize weapon you're trying to palm off on us?

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Or, instead of trying to piss off a particular playerbase we go back to earlier in the thread and entertain the idea of having multiple ways to work on the Relic.

That way Eureka players can still work towards it without it being the sole way to work on it.

With Eureka having its own "Consolation prize" unique to it in addition.

Or is it too upsetting to allow other people access to your favourite toys without having a tantrum that after being catered for by having the Relic locked behind your content and your content only that other people might still want to have their Relic from content they enjoy?

The Relic has been a focus of my gameplay throughout 2.0 and 3.0. The only reason it hasn't been my focus in 4.0 is because it's stuck behind content I abhor. Why? So people who like this niche content of Eureka get a shiny they can feel good about, at the expense of everyone who previously liked collecting Relics through the means at which they collected them previously.

Logically, it should go back to 2.0/3.0 ways and have Eureka stand on its own merits.

However, that's not particularly inclusive. So why not have multiple ways to farm towards a Relic. Or at the very least, have the Relic require multiple types of content so that everyone ends up having a stage of the relic in content they enjoy (At the cost of having some stages that they might not enjoy).

You know, thinking about others instead of crying about how you NEED to have the Relic from your favourite content and wouldn't be happy with anything else by calling it a "Consolation Prize"?

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Ideally, the best thing you can do is keep them separate. Since then you will get more relevant feedback about them.

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No because you split your playerbase into two directions. Eureka is a "grind" content and the relic are "grind" rewards. If you separate those two, you'll have less grinders that will do the relic because their main appeal will be Eureka and less grinders who will do Eureka because their main appeal is the Relic.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Rather than having Eureka feedback being flooded by people who hate the content but feel forced to grind it out to obtain the niche content that they previously worked at.

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Yes, people that go all their way to explain why the past relics weren't grindy compared to that (False), and thus why Eureka is painful, how farming tens of thousands of tomestone was refreshing and innovative (Seriously ?), or how past relics were more widespread because it contained tome farming instead of specific content (Apparently false, but numbers are unclear)...

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Originally Posted by Kalise

That depends on the player. I play games for fun. Just getting gear is not fun.

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I said nothing about "just" getting gear. But I'm pretty sure you would not run each floor of Alphascape several times per week if it wasn't for the loot at the end.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

If it was, more people would just Tomestone farm.

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More people ? You mean more than everyone who doesn't raid or grind, which represent the ridiculously largest part of the playerbase ?

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Well, the thing is, for BOTH previous Relics, I liked farming them. That was part of my content. Farming Relics (Plural, multiple Zodiacs and multiple Animas).

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Well, I didn't but the design choice is deeper that simply "They like/don't like". SE switched the universal currency to a universal weapon, excluding any challenging content of it, and put the grindy weapon in its own grindy content so that you would do both tomefarming and this new content, instead of tome farming for everything, a formula on which people have expressed frequent issue throughout the years .

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Meanwhile, the target audience of Eureka, have mixed feelings about the Relic, some don't like its looks.

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Well, since you'll never reach a universal consensus on item looks, it really doesn't matter at all. Personally, I think most Lux looked completely bland and uninteresting.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Then you get people like you who like Eureka but hate Relics (In the form they have existed in both previous iterations) whom are adamant about defending Relics in Eureka because it specifically caters to you and only people like you.

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Well, for me, it's more complicated than that. It's not just that I liked this relic better, but, that, strategically, if all valuable items are shoehorned into tome farming, you'll reach a point where you can't offer any new content, because tome farming will always take the past of least resistance, and thus people will keep packing in expert dungeons. Personally, I would not have put Tomesones reward in Eureka to give people incentive to do both.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

There's limitless options of rewards that would be possible for enticing players to play Eureka, including ones that would actually benefit Eureka players in the content they're enjoying.

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Well, you have a few of them too...and the final weaponc is actually useful when doing Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

If we're just merging niche content for the sake of putting niche content together. Why not go the extra mile? Go stick Eureka behind PvP grind. PvP is niche content. So is Eureka. Stick them both together!

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I don't know, maybe you miss the part where people complained that the relic only reused existing content instead of having their own...the very reason why Eureka was created in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Please tell me where in Anemos it explains why Gerolt is there at all

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We know why Gerolt is there, the same stupid reason he was involed in both past relics...It really makes you wonder how much money he owns Rowena. :s
And he can upgrade your gear because he's a good blacksmith and already did it twice.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

or where it mentions why your gear is upgradable with the random crystals you have found.

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In Anemos, you don't even know what "Eureka" is, why the Aether is so disrupted, and yes, why killing mobs there crystallize part of the zone's aether. You don't have all revelations at the beginning of any story, you know ?

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Or, instead of trying to piss off a particular playerbase we go back to earlier in the thread and entertain the idea of having multiple ways to work on the Relic.

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Then I want my alternate way of obtaining Savage Gear, PvP Gear, Deep Dungeon gear, etc...because I'd like to glamour them, but I don't want to be "forced" into doing their content.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Do you have proof of that?

Do you have records of their design team talking about how they want to put this new content around the Relic?

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Y: Up until now, in the theme park called FFXIV land, we went to various attractions through the Zodiac and Anima Weapon quest lines, but I think a lot of people are getting tired of that system. We are also reaching our limits on how to create routes to go to those attractions, so we thought that we might as well make the weapon quest one of the attractions, as well, rather than it being a tool to see attractions. It will still be a “time to win” based attraction like Zodiac and Anima Weapons. That’s why we thought that the name “Forbidden land” fits it quite well… (laugh). In FFIII, Eureka is a land that is sealed with powerful magic and weapons, so in order to keep that charm point, we want players to put in hours and effort into making it. With that in our minds, we thought we should bring it up by a level, so we made Eureka.

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From the same source as my signature

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Originally Posted by Kalise

You know, thinking about others instead of crying about how you NEED to have the Relic from your favourite content and wouldn't be happy with anything else by calling it a "Consolation Prize"?

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You're the one who is doing the crying it appears. It's relic content and the progression designed for 4.0 by the development team. Sorry it's not something YOU like but seriously they aren't going to change it NOW to suit your fancy.

This forum did nothing but complain about having to run old content for the last relic progression in 3.0 and wanted something new. The Development Team gave them something new and please lets NOT GO BACK to the same old boring forumula of running old content until blue in the face.

And let me add if they design a similar progression in 5.0 it won't be for a consolation prize weapon but for relic. Asking for different progression options/methods is one thing, asking for a separate weapon is simply not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

You're the one who is doing the crying it appears. It's relic content and the progression designed for 4.0 by the development team. Sorry it's not something YOU like but seriously they aren't going to change it NOW to suit your fancy.

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Why the relics isn't required to progress Eureka then ? Like at all. You don't need it to finish an area, don't need it to unlock the next area, Krile don't mention the relic weapon once, Eureka itself (the primal) don't provide anything, be it a line of dialogue or a component for the weapon. The only links between the relic weapon and Eureka are component without a speck of lore behind them and "Eureka is a primal that give weapon so the weapon he never interact with is tied to him".

But hey if you continue to stretch it enough you might find out Eureka is actualy related to Hildibrand.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

But hey if you continue to stretch it enough you might find out Eureka is actualy related to Hildibrand.

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Talk to the development team. They are the ones who designed the content around relic and I think they know more about their game than you do.. It's fine you don't have to like it. You can all stretch the facts that this isn't really a relic and the content isn't relic related and that relic was thrown in as an after thought to make people play the content.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Talk to the development team. They are the ones who designed the content. It's fine you don't have to like it. You can all stretch the facts that this isn't really a relic and the content isn't relic related.

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Isn't it the whole point of a forum and the reason some people says they want the relic out or have a second option that didn't imply Eureka ? You know, using the forum to add their opinion in the hope staff might take account of it...

Its is a relic, a very badly implemented one, she is sure tied to eureka its an arguably bad decision and a badly done too. But if Eureka was created around the said relic, it sure not show it well since you have no proof of it either.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

IIts is a relic, a very badly implemented one, she is sure tied to eureka its an arguably bad decision and a badly done too.

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You're entitled to your opinion I certainly don't agree. I think it was awesome. And I'm expressing my opinion too which is my right.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

You're entitled to your opinion I certainly don't agree. I think it was awesome. And I'm expressing my opinion too which is my right.

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And you dodge the real point with the "opinion are like ass crack every one get one" and don't bring any argument for your claim about how Eureka was created around the relic. But it have nothing to do with the next Relic OP sugest being not tied to the next Eurekrap 5.0 to begin with so whatever. Damn, he even suggest you have your own toy totaly related to it...

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Why the relics isn't required to progress Eureka then ? Like at all.

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Story and lore are quite important to FFXIV, so where possible the devs like to provide an easy option for players who are only interested in the story.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

And you dodge the real point with the "opinion are like ass crack every one get one" and don't bring any argument for your claim about how Eureka was created around the relic. But it have nothing to do with the next Relic OP sugest being not tied to the next Eurekrap 5.0 to begin with so whatever. Damn, he even suggest you have your own toy totaly related to it...

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The claim that the relic was thrown in Eureka at the last minute is the one that needs proof. You spend nearly all your time in there grinding crystals, light and specific mobs in order to build it.
Everything apart from the 10 minutes or so you spend on Kriles thing in each area is related to building and powering up your relic weapon(s.)

It feels more like she was thrown in at the last minute because they needed some excuse plot to justify the whole area hopping relic grind they'd created.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Story and lore are quite important to FFXIV, so where possible the devs like to provide an easy option for players who are only interested in the story.

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Relics had their own story while not being related that much to any content of 2.0 and 3.0. Eureka weapon have no lore at all or you have some to provide ? Because last time I checked it a weapon upgraded with junk we found around here, nothing comparable to a zodiac brave weapon or a living weapon having her own soul.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

But it have anything to do with the next Relic OP sugest being not tied to the next Eurekrap 5.0 to begin with so whatever.

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I've already expressed that I would hope the next relic progression would be new. Perhaps you should read what people have to say. One thing I certainly don't want is a repeat of the tired old formula from 3.0. You can call it "KRAP" all you like. I'm sure the devs reading your comments will take note of your verbal interpretation of their work and effort.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Why the relics isn't required to progress Eureka then ?

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For the same reason why normal raid was created. Because people would whine endlessly that they have to put dedication into some content if they want the lore behind it. And I'm pleased to see that the storyline and the final weapon upgrade only come with doing the Baldesion Arsenal, instead of simply reaching level 60 and farming FATEs.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

and don't bring any argument for your claim about how Eureka was created around the relic.

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Then I guess this is a better place to quote this than in my previous post :

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Y: Up until now, in the theme park called FFXIV land, we went to various attractions through the Zodiac and Anima Weapon quest lines, but I think a lot of people are getting tired of that system. We are also reaching our limits on how to create routes to go to those attractions, so we thought that we might as well make the weapon quest one of the attractions, as well, rather than it being a tool to see attractions. It will still be a “time to win” based attraction like Zodiac and Anima Weapons. That’s why we thought that the name “Forbidden land” fits it quite well… (laugh). In FFIII, Eureka is a land that is sealed with powerful magic and weapons, so in order to keep that charm point, we want players to put in hours and effort into making it. With that in our minds, we thought we should bring it up by a level, so we made Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Eureka weapon have no lore at all or you have some to provide ?

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It has, but you need to do Eureka for that, and not just Anemos.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Because last time I checked it a weapon upgraded with junk we found around here, nothing comparable to a zodiac brave weapon or a living weapon having her own soul.

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Sure, because all the items we bought from Rowena's slaves with our tomestones are anything but junk...And what good did that soul do when your benched your weapon to your servant ? Of the really close tie between your Zodiac weapon and the actual Zodiac Braves, that are past Ivalice heroes, and nothing like what was said in the weapon storyline.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Then I guess this is a better place to quote this than in my previous post :

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Sorry he only reads what suits him it appears and thank you for re-quoting that.