Free 2 Play still being considered?

If they make it pay-to-play I may cry.
And depending on what you have to pay for, I may cry even more!
If they do something like: Pay for game box, then pay subscription, then pay to unlock the story, then pay to unlock the job so you can do the story, then pay to unlock a chocobo so you can get to the story.. well, I'll just stop paying and go play somewhere else.

However, if they introduce little-things that do not really have any effect on game play:
Pay for Event Item you missed.
Pay for 100 extra anima (otherwise normal anima regen rate)
Pay for 100 extra leves (otherwise normal leve regen rate)

Then I might be okey... but still rather not ^.^;

but whats the problem if you have a monthly subscription, u have access to all? so why will u care about f2p paying for main story quests?

I'll be honest, Pay to Play is one reason why I do choose to play this MMO over others. I find that F2P methods do not ever give proper value for money spent. Additionally, it also effects game balance. Every game company has tried until they are blue in the face to balance F2P to match P2P, none have succeeded.

F2P players always feel the need to make purchases to better themselves. P2P games do not have this. The desire to better themselves comes from gameplay mechanics and desire to improve your skills/character. You pay your fee, and can enjoy the game in its entirety, including patched content and story that is laid out in order to keep you from dropping your sub. I am buying access to the game and community, what I do inside the game is not dictated by real world money. The only exception to this being Expansions, which are large scale additions to the game.

F2P is not the way to go and it ALWAYS ends up to be more then a monthly subscription.

Seems like you never played GW <.<

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Originally Posted by Coldfire

Seems like you never played GW <.<

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I believe someone else said it best. "Co op RPG" with PvP focus.

GW is not a regular F2P game. F2P the topic starter is talking about is more like DC Online and LOTRO. Guild Wars is a completely different story.

There is always exceptions to all things in life nothing is 100% but for the most part once they start charging for in game items it's game over.

GW was designed before the current F2P model really took off. If you've played it recently you can see it's been looking more like your standard F2P game. Also, you had to pay for the game itself so it's not truly F2P, just Co Op RPG as has been mentioned.

The only half decent F2P game I've played has been Star Trek Online, but as I never played it before it went F2P, for all I know I've just been playing the old content and all new content will cost. I dunno. Either way, that's one decent game out of dozens, maybe hundreds of F2P games that suck. Not only does it end up costing more to people who pay for things, it ruins game balance, almost always leads to less (and lesser quality) content, and allows the idiot teenager trolls to get in a lot more easily. I played MMOs when I was a teenager and never felt the urge to annoy people so it's not a guarantee, but it is a statistical likelihood.

I know that I, personally, have not once paid for anything in a F2P game because I find the prospect of paying real world money for a virtual item idiotic at best. At least P2P is paying for the subscription service where everyone gets invested in their characters and the content. F2P will only remain profitable as long as there are people willing to pay cash for knickknacks in your particular game, and as Zynga's recent financials tell us, it may not be as sustainable as a lot of these struggling MMOs switching to it want to believe.

You mention free to play to people and there auto defenses kick into high gear.

I will agree that many company's have used the model to grab as much cash as they can. And if square was to adopt a bad f2p model i would be among the numbers who say Fthis I'm out. How ever done responsibly it is a pretty cool model. I like to refer to these games as Freemium games. They never sell power only convenience and customization.

But i think the guys over at extracredits said it best when it comes to micro transactions
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/microtransactions

in the kind of small transaction, it can be change char appearance, race, hairstyle, gender, name and server transfer, if SE consider that, I dont see the problem

Compared to the famous wow clone this game already is more paytoplay. You pay more for each char. There with monthly fee you get everything. So many chars you want, 8 different life styles etc. Still I will not spend years there. This is growing business and every year you'll see more and more fantastic games. After ten years maybe 4d, smell, taste, virtual real kisses, hurting wounds whatever. I want to experience the best all. World changes quickly if big bang is not released.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Northman

Compared to the famous wow clone this game already is more paytoplay. You pay more for each char. There with monthly fee you get everything. So many chars you want, 8 different life styles etc. Still I will not spend years there. This is growing business and every year you'll see more and more fantastic games. After ten years maybe 4d, smell, taste, virtual real kisses, hurting wounds whatever. I want to experience the best all. World changes quickly if big bang is not released.

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the average player doesnt even need more then 1 character though, i still dont see why anyone would want more when you can do everything on 1

so of course other games give you more, when you have 8+ jobs you can be, you ned 1 for every job to experience it all

here you can do every job on 1 character so there is no true need for more


so this game doesnt cost more, its less

I don't really care for the F2P mmos out there. mostly because you have to pay for extra content. Just like Yoshi-P said in the interview.

I'm nnot really to worried at all to think about a subject like, "Turn FFXIV into F2P game". Because, just by his patches he's throwing at us, the time he take to do them to give us Quality Patches,And most important, his Vision for the game ( In Which I DIDN'T like Tanaka's Vision AT all) If Tanaka was still in Charge (besides Hamlet Defense) would we still get:

- Materia
- Instance Raids
- Settlements
- Player Residents
- New and Improved Player Search
- Jobs ( biggest one so far IMHO)
- Stats that actually work ( Point Allotment)

Also, taking a look at the road map and getting a good Grasp for Yoshi-P Vision

By 2.0 we alot of stuff like:

- New Character Creation ( With Male Cats and Female Hulks) I believe this alone will Draw people to this game " at least from the start anyhow) and who knows maybe will get more Races.

- Maps with Meaning (No Copy and Pasta stuff and I can tell Just by that lone SS, that its not a Copy/Pasta Game anymore, They are putting out all the stops for an Immersion related Scenery.)

- Grand Companies go into Full Potential Mode (Another words, by 2.0 the Rank system will be going up to like Commander "or maybe higher who knows", Items within the Seals Shop will be through the roof, etc etc)

- Free Companies ( Quest/Mission~ing with your Free Company to Reach a certain goal)

- PvP Coliseum ( Alot of people are looking forward to this, and it also doesn't effect the Gameplay of the PvE players, In which Players that want to do PvP Content will be happy as well as the People that just want to do PvE, or even if they like both sides Its there.)

- Crystal Tower/Labyrinth (This is what I'm looking forward to the most, Climbing up this Tower, Plowing through my Enemies to reach the top to "hopefully" Beat a Mega Boss with my Party. Labyrinth Same Concept, just you have to go through a Maze of Sorts all the while to also Destroy your Foes as your Progress.

- New Primal Battles ( I'm, Sure the whole Gang will be there Garuda/Ifrit/Odin/Shiva/Titan/Leviathan etc)

- Dragon Battles of Ishgard ( For all those Dragon Lovers out there, will be Pleased with this Content, as well as I am, I love a good Dragon Fight and being Breathed on by Massive Fireballs coming at you =))

- New UI ( Just by the SS of the New UI that will be coming to us, I feel Confident that this Version of FFXIV will Succeed, and the Graphics look Amazing).

- Treasure Maps ( only Viewable to DoH Classes) will be able to find Treasure Map Related Chests

- Item Signatures ( Allows Crafters to Embed their names on the Armor/Weapons they make)

- In-Game NPC Voice Acting ( ALL NPCS will be Voiced, thats how I read what they said)

- New Classes ( Either Beastmaster or Summoner, Maybe both) will be in 2.0

You get my Drift, While I understand F2P Option for when and if FFXIV 2.0 Fails to meet up to the Consumers expectations. I on the other hand, I Look on the Brighter side of things, Too much Doom and Gloom around now in days on this games Ver 1.0.

I rather look at what is to come, and just by Seeing Yoshi-P Vision if everything he says is in 2.0, I feel as a Player to myself, this game is a Success. and I truely hope Players that played FFXIV ver 1.0 and left within weeks on Launch, to give this game another go at 2.0. You maybe Surprised on the outcome of this game.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the average player doesnt even need more then 1 character though, i still dont see why anyone would want more when you can do everything on 1

so of course other games give you more, when you have 8+ jobs you can be, you ned 1 for every job to experience it all

here you can do every job on 1 character so there is no true need for more


so this game doesnt cost more, its less

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True. I know families where members share their only character. Still cheaper. I have had always 2 in different servers. Slightly different cultures/players, somehow the chars feel also different and can be very different level (I enjoy to stay long below 50, I wd get bored 5050505050505050...)

Freemiums - free to get into, costly to enjoy premium - content have become the norm as a business model in a huge variety of entertainment and electronics venues. Businesses eat that stuff up as it becomes the thing to do.

Freemium content or f2p in the video game model has largely been dominated by younger and more casual people. While from SE's point of view it would most assuredly result in more income from the purist point of view its an unmitigated disaster, filled with beggars, lazy people, pay-to-buy collectors, the immature, and an entire clique culture of, "if you don't buy this thing, you don't belong." Don't be surprised, with an income increase possible, if they don't consider it.

Having said that, this is your chance to speak up, to set a precedent. Don't turn this thread and others like it into a trolls vs. whiteknights shtick like this community does so very often. Respectfully stand up and make sure that SE knows that a f2p cashshop freemium model will not work for their main target audience. However, be aware that those still willing to pay at this point, the purists and the hopefuls are going to be minority stock in the future.

Quite a few f2p lock content behind microtransaction. However I can think of two off the top of my head that are totally free but make it harder to do without. Now some will say 'Omg its not as easy as the person that pay so its unfair!' but depending how SE did a hypothetical f2p I would not be adverse to trying it out. Some even have one time payments for world chat to keep the cursing trolls at bay since they tend to find it cost prohibitive. The smart ones simply troll the retarded that respond within the rules and since this game you use one character for everything its VERY easy to blist people and be reasonably sure that they are not hopping onto alts to get around it.

But I think they are mostly just toying with the idea as a backup in case 2.0 flames out horribly. I'm kind of hoping they start using their crysta to sell their in game things for real world items. I'd love for them offer 3d model print outs of our characters. Canvas prints. Even actual metal and glass/crystal guild leve cards. Right now its weak keychain straps. :(

I wouldn't be adverse to them introducing the WoW model of being free to play up until level 20 at which point you stop earning experience.

However if they were to do that in XIV they'd need to lock crafting and resource gathering as well to stop a ridiculous influx of gold farmers so maybe the system would need a few extra stipulations. Perhaps free to level 15 but you cannot access market wards or run your bazaar, that way people can try out making themselves new armor but it stops them running around and harvesting to sell on. Blocking at level 15 also stops access to things such as grand companies, chocobos etc. while still letting people get a good feel for the class system and the easy switching in between.

This would be additional to the free 30 day trial though, you can download the client and play free to 15 but if you want to go passed that you need to buy a copy of the game which still comes with one months subscription included, and if you don't want to bother with it you can just go out and buy the game and play immediately without the blocks.

Attracts people in with the 'it's free I may as well try' mentality without being flooded by gold farmers... in theory anyway - hey, it works for WoW.

I prefer P2P over F2P any day.

Scouring around between three different game companies: such as the Runes of Magic vs. Wizards 101 vs. Free Realms vs. Turbine vs. Nexon.

Someone was right, that when F2P is mentioned, auto-defenses kick into full gear.

I see F2P model as it applies to FFXIV as:

Purchase Crysta.
Crysta can be used to:
*Rent an additional retainer for 30 days / 90 days / permanent.
*Rent an additional backpack for 30/90/P.
*Rent a unique mount regardless of level for 7/30/90/P.
*A costume item that appears over top of your equipped gear as long as the costume slot is used. Duration 7/30/90/P.
*An item that allows a U/U item to be traded one time.
*An item that improves the odds of forbidden materia melding and prevents the item from breaking for one try.
*An item that replenishes Rested XP.
*An item that replenishes Anima.
*A ticket to change your character's hairstyle (less expensive).
*A ticket for an entire character make-over, including sex change option and name.

But they easily could do content, race, class lockouts that would need to be purchased, but I believe that's what people here hate more than not. Where the Nexon model would likely float more people's boat here.

Does nothing for population maturity or RMT, but that's what I would see as SE's F2P.

F2P is a horrible business model that does nothing but destroy good games in the hopes of extending their market life.

I would rather no FFXIV than some F2P bastardization of FFXIV.

Hate F2P MMO's. If they decide to make XIV a F2P title I'm out.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

Rau I just have to ask

do you know what F2P even means?


blahblahblah

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Sorry I'm going to have to clear some things up.

What's been said is how F2P shouldn't be done, If you want to look at how it should be done I'd suggest playing League of Legends or Team Fortress 2. F2P isn't about buying content like that. The problem is people's idea of a F2P is stuck in the "pay to win" Korean MMO model (aka how it shouldn't be done). It's about paying for an aesthetic or decreasing the time to do something.

For example, one F2P model that would be OK would be them selling far more powerful EXP Bonus scrolls for crafting/leveling. Another really good one is being able to buy G.C. seals instead of farming them. These two things alone could probably sustain a F2P model alone. Would anyone mind them? I'd hope not since they don't hurt you and you'd hardly notice them.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I'm nnot really to worried at all to think about a subject like, "Turn FFXIV into F2P game". Because, just by his patches he's throwing at us, the time he take to do them to give us Quality Patches,And most important, his Vision for the game ( In Which I DIDN'T like Tanaka's Vision AT all) If Tanaka was still in Charge (besides Hamlet Defense) would we still get:

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lol No offense, but your delusional if you honestly think 90% of that wasn't already planned before Yoshida took over.

Tanaka was, to put it simply, a fall guy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Risx

For example, one F2P model that would be OK would be them selling far more powerful EXP Bonus scrolls for crafting/leveling. Another really good one is being able to buy G.C. seals instead of farming them.

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^ is pay to win.

Kiote, are you implying that it's in anyway hard to do? If so you're an idiot.

All it is is time consuming.

I am a realist. I don't like the idea of F2P either, but if after 2.0 it has to be done...... then it has to be done. I think its a bit silly to jump to conclusions about it ruining the game. I would take a wait and see approach............. you know like I have been doing since Beta.......(constantly feel like I'm waiting on this or that for this game, drives me a bit nutty sometimes). Anyways, I understand people are worried about F2P bringing in the wrong element, but if SE does it in the right way perhaps it wont be quite so bad. And whatever they come up with I would at least give it a chance before I just arbitrarily quit the game. Now it would be different, if they decided to go straight to a Buy 2 Win strategy. That kind of cash shop is something I couldnt stomach.

But I would be perfectly fine with a Cosmetic Cash Shop (only) and things like being able to purchase DLC and XPACs from the cash shop. If they combined this with a fairly pricey box sale (Buy to Play like GW but more expensive) with a DLC package for each class that gives a lengthy and not so easy quest to get past level 15. Then on top of that offer a fair sub option alternative for people that want subs with some monthly allowance of crysta for the cash shop. And grandfather anyone that is already playing the game that wants to go free to play into it with all existing content they have access to at that point.

I could get on board with something like this. It would not be perfect and it definately wouldnt be what I prefer, but it would be better than no FFXIV at least to me. On the other hand, the dreamer in me wants to believe that 2.0 will be a great (or at least good enough) success and all this will be a moot point. ^^;

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

While I don't like the Idea of F2P, a hybrid type might work. I think Lord of the Rings uses a hybrid system.

Subscribers pay a monthly fee and have access to the whole game.

Free to players have access to basic parts of the game, and have to pay for content unlocks.

I think *IF* SE ever decides to go that route a hybrid solution would be the best.

[size=5]hypothetical example of how F2P *COULD* work in XIV post 1.21:[/size] (Free to play players pay per content, Subscribers get everything with their sub fee)

Instanced dungeons: $5.00 per unlock (x4 dungeons = $20.00 total)
Primal fights $3.00 per unlock ($6.00 for moogle and ifrit)
Advanced jobs $5.00 per job (Paladin, Dragoon,White mage ect ect) ($35.00 for all 7 jobs)
Anima recharge $1.00 per 100 anima
personal Chocobo $10.00
Main story unlock $10.00
7th umbral era story $10.00
Access to Inn $8.00
Retainers $5.00 each
Airship passport $10.00

However is you pay your monthly dues all that comes with the sub fee.

Like TheVedis said, F2P comes with a price, but that price is dependent on what you want out of the game. Of course you'll get in the dilemma of subscribers and non-subscribers coming together and the non-subber not having access to certain content, but all they have to do is open their wallet.

*IF* FFXIV ever adopts a F2P model I hope they choose a hybrid over straight F2P.

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You guys are going WAY over board with this F2P crap.... Go play vindicuts, go play mabinogi, go play maple story. they give you everything that's content free, most of the cash shop is all cosmetics.......... come on now, don't even say stuff like that.....

Mabinogi is still one of the best MMORPGS out there as well.

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Originally Posted by Risx

Kiote, are you implying that it's in anyway hard to do? If so you're an idiot.

All it is is time consuming.

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pay to win refers to being able to buy anything that lets you do things faster then those who dont pay

sounds like you are the one out of touch with the problems people have with f2p models and dont understan d them to me


hell you even skipped my entire post and quoted me as "blablablablabla" cuz you clearly dont know what this is all about

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rau

[url]
EDIT: Please don't ruin FFXIV by letting all the 13 year olds with PS3s populate servers by adopting a f2p model. I understand you need to make a profit, but please think about the already tarnished FF name you are trying to restore. Quality is the name of the game! ; ;

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I am pretty sure F2P isn't being considered as an option. I don't recall where I read it exactly, but Yoshida at one point stated that 'F2P wasn't an option for XIV because Japanese gamers have a very low opinion of F2P games.'

So in other words F2P would kill XIV in their home market; ergo they won't be making the game permanently F2P.

If I am remembering correctly he also indicated that what they might do is look into a model where you don't have to have two separate accounts to login two characters at the same time, so for example a husband and wife could play together under one account. He gave no indication that this is likely to happen just that they might look into the possibility.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

pay to win refers to being able to buy anything that lets you do things faster then those who dont pay

sounds like you are the one out of touch with the problems people have with f2p models and dont understan d them to me


hell you even skipped my entire post and quoted me as "blablablablabla" cuz you clearly dont know what this is all about

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Pay to Win is being able to buy a Moogle Sword, Anima, or Dungeons. There's no winning in buying GC seals and EXP bonus scrolls. All it does it cut down time for people who don't necessarily want to waste their time grinding hours to get 1k seals.

Explain to me how this is "Pay to win"

I'm only okay with a F2P model so long as there are no pay to win options in the cash shop, and all of the content has to be available. The best F2P MMOs had cash shops with fun items, or experience bonus potions, things like that. Nothing big, and they were still very profitable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Risx

Pay to Win is being able to buy a Moogle Sword, Anima, or Dungeons. There's no winning in buying GC seals and EXP bonus scrolls. All it does it cut down time for people who don't necessarily want to waste their time grinding hours to get 1k seals.

Explain to me how this is "Pay to win"

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any purchase which gives you an advantage is pay to win
including being able to do things faster

by your reasoning its also ok to buy gil from rmt cuz farming is a waste of time too i take it?


pay to win refers to all of this activity
any single inclusion of a purchase which gives you actual in game playable benefit(exp bonus, gil, company seals, all that is pay to win)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

any purchase which gives you an advantage is pay to win
including being able to do things faster

by your reasoning its also ok to buy gil from rmt cuz farming is a waste of time too i take it?


pay to win refers to all of this activity
any single inclusion of a purchase which gives you actual in game playable benefit(exp bonus, gil, company seals, all that is pay to win)

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You just went full on retard.
I'm done. Until you learn to think I'm so done replying. lol

As long as FFXIV continues to be fun to play with my friends, and they all stick to playing too, I will put up with whatever model S-E decides to go with. If a free to play model was in fact to attract a younger audience, it would be a non-issue for me.

Most mmo's these days that was originally launched as pay to play is switching to free to play with paid options. I'll still play regardless no matter the outcome as long as the content is fun.

Risx, I'll bite.

Please tell me how you differentiate between the following:

Using cash to purchase an Ifrit Weapon, bypassing the farm-time needed for Totems/rare drop,
Using cash to purchase EXP scrolls, bypassing the farm time needed for EXP
Using cash to purchase GC seals, bypassing the farm time needed to purchase rare items & EXP scrolls.

If this goes f2p I'm quitting. I'm not willing to pay more than a subscription fee. Having to calculate fun vs cost would spike my stress.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiote

lol No offense, but your delusional if you honestly think 90% of that wasn't already planned before Yoshida took over.

Tanaka was, to put it simply, a fall guy.

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Already Planned? if it was We wouldn't need 2.0 now would we? Every one has a different Vision. Yes somethings that Yoshi-p "may like" Like Hamlet Defense for Example, he liked it, he wants it in his Vision, so yes He took that Idea. But every man is different, so His Vision will be what you call "90%" Different. You honestly think this was all a set up? Tanaka Stepping down, and Yoshi-P becoming the Savior of this game? And you say I'm Delusional. :/.

Oh well, it is what it is.