Why Eureka is a worse form of the Diadem IMO

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Examples that have absolutely no chance of being copied in this game. Seriously, anything remotely challenging is nerfed to the ground, do you really expect XIV taking inspiration from MH or Dark Soul ? Especially for the relic stuff, which we fully known would be tied to Eureka and fully known that it wouldn't involve challenging content.

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Speaking personally again here - My biggest gripe with Eureka is that it's nothing but bland shallow systems and one dimensional gameplay.

Why isn't there more challenging/engaging stuff in there? They could have easily designed Eureka to be more robust, and then added in FATEs, NMs, and AFK farming singular mobs. That stuff is lowest common denominator derivative content. Instead of being the main hook of Eureka it should have been the stuff they added a week before launch...This way everyone of differing playstyles can enjoy the level of engagement they like to get the reward they want.

This is not an insult on anyone gameplay skill level, but an insult on the developers competency and creativity. I'm 100% confident that a fresh out of college part time intern could have developed the current iteration of Eureka: Anemos in the time frame they had for it.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

I love Eureka myself. Instant queues as DPS and it beats the whole spamming dungeons while you have to rush everything like a crazy person over and over. Shit gets old, I like relaxing content like this.

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To be fair, I don't think we should EVER have battle content that is considered relaxing. That's like saying Oh I like getting diabetes...I'm all for varying forms of side content being relaxing, but battle content needs to be engaging. That's its hook.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

Why isn't there more challenging/engaging stuff in there?

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because the community can't handle challenging content, at least thats how I feel. Anything that IS hard, people complain about and it gets nerfed. It's sad, there is no sense of accomplishment when beating anything in this game except maybe savage content. Take the steps of faith for example.

Honestly, now that I tried Eureka, just feels, cheap.

Getting Relics back then was a big grind, but damn did it feel good whenever you got your weapon.

Now? Im following a damn train, and either im killing mobs to make a fate spawn if I feel like it, or watching Flash on Netflix while waiting for the fate to pop.

I hope the next stage of Eureka coming soon fixes some of this crap.

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Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

because the community can't handle challenging content, at least thats how I feel. Anything that IS hard, people complain about and it gets nerfed. It's sad, there is no sense of accomplishment when beating anything in this game except maybe savage content. Take the steps of faith for example.

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You know what scares me?

SE adding near infinite grind Merit levels. To give players a way of non-stop progression, that would award bonus stats and modifiers that would give diminishing returns as ya pump more points into it, kinda like ESO's CP system, just so casual players or low skilled players will have a way to brute force any wall they wanna bypass, like Savage content.

But I got a feeling its gonna happen within the next expansion or two. Sighs, if it happens I hope they at least, either balance the hardest content around it, disable it for the hardest content, or do a massive reduction so you will get a slight advantage if you are very high in merit points, but it wont let you simply faceroll at all.

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Originally Posted by Tiaque

Getting Relics back then was a big grind, but damn did it feel good whenever you got your weapon.

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Collectively, this current stage equates to Atma and Luminous stages sans their RNG aspect while hopping from FATE to FATE, which is what made their grind feel heavier back then. To some back then they cleared their first stage in a matter of days and others took months due to horrible luck. This is the same thing, just they removed the luck.

Next stage was the dungeon burning stages of Awoken and Animus. No idea how this will be handled now in Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Collectively, this current stage equates to Atma and Luminous stages sans their RNG aspect while hopping from FATE to FATE, which is what made their grind feel heavier back then. To some back then they cleared their first stage in a matter of days and others took months due to horrible luck. This is the same thing, just they removed the luck.

Next stage was the dungeon burning stages of Awoken and Animus. No idea how this will be handled now in Eureka.

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I hear you, this is stage one of the relic, when has that ever been "engaging"? I remember Atma's, this is just a better, more condensed version of it. Less running all over the world, now its all in one zone. I really like that. There is enough other stuff in the game that the relic is no longer required to funnel people into older content to keep it viable. I'm cautiously interested in what Pagos will be like. If its a reskinned Anemos that adds nothing new gameplay wise, then it will be a fail. I'm hoping for some open world type dungeons in the next one that will require us to unlock a door and delve into a dungeon to tackle the boss for "Pazuzu Feathers" (or the Pagos equivalent).

But there I go again, "it will be better next patch". Been saying that since about 3.1

almost every stage of the old relics was pretty much go do a bunch of older stuff to farm stuff to trade for the actual mats for whatever relic step it or go do some fight endless for light plus do something to git enough gill to buy whatever new crafted mat on the mb if you weren't a crafter plus farm dungeons for boat lode of tomes every step need and that' s without even talking about the rng involved in some steps

really though eurkea is actually that different form any of the old steps in just doesn't have bunch of stuff thrown for no reason other then to stretch out the grind

Eureka is really bad, but it don't seem to bother yoshi-p.

We gave A LOT of negative feedback on diadem (aka fate are boring as hell, etc etc.) but even so, they just do the same.

1) Kill x mobs (retextured mobs ofc).
2) Spawn the boss ( with "mechanics" and intense "gameplay")
3) back to 1)

Great game design...

Also, the possibility to break crystals, level sync, lock box openning,etc should have been done BEFORE the release of eureka.
It's an other proof that they didn't test it.

I can make a non exhaustive list of bad things in eureka:

-mechanic-less fights (FATEs you know, go here, go there, done)

-magia board absolutly non interactive: you know you will kill mobs with x element, you set your magia for it and that's all. It doesn't add anything to the fight. It's a stance but without stance-dancing. They removed useless elemental resistance for useless magia board. If mobs could change affinity while in battle it could be more fun but sadly it's boring.

-The "feeling of danger" is a complete joke. At level 1 I discovered all the map alone without being killed. So dangerous.... Also even if you die when you are level 20 you loose an elemental level? And you call that punishing?

-Story is trash. Rowena blablabla gerold debts blablabla. it's the 3rd time. µ

-The lalafell "scientist" is a caricature. " You will only be a burden for me, stay back, I am better than you " and so on .

-Relic doesn't feel "special". We collect trash on the island to upgrade a weapon.

relic 1.0 : Re-create legendary weapon from the past. Infusing little by little our weapon with more power.
relic 2.0 : Make a weapon with a spirit and a soul, create synthetic spirits.
relic 3.0 : collect thingy on a island to up a random weapon?

-Music: 4.1 music trailer recycling? lazy

and I could go on.

Eureka is not dead only thanks to the possibility to gear alt with "good" stuff.
When pagos will drop, without the "relic" armor upgrades it will be quickly dead.

Everywhere I asked what people thought about eureka:
<< It's boring but I will do it for the gear >> .
Proof of bad and lazy game design.

$€ didn't listen to our feedback (we don't like FATEs, we want to work on the relic at our pace, ...) and they don't seem to try to do better.

The thing is I very rarely voice strong negative feedback on this game.
I like most of the content or I understand why they add it and for who.
So when I say "it's bad/lazy" it's the bottom of the pit.

But in the end I say "whatever". I won't go anymore in eureka, (also the island already have a name so why did they change it?) and i will go for a the 30-45 subscription model: 30 days sub then 45 unsub (still have a house to keep... for now).
StormBlood being overall disappointing and eureka is a big nail in the coffin.

I really like eureka, especially during the first few days when it released, people were furious at the amount of exp and crystal per monster before they found out about NMs and how to spawn them. The mysteries slowly unveiled and groups need to coordinate to fight high level NMs. Can't wait to see what mystery awaits us in Pagos.

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Originally Posted by Pingosteel

-mechanic-less fights (FATEs you know, go here, go there, done)

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do you imagine this changing on any fight that has no realistic player limit? if you do, how?

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Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

because the community can't handle challenging content, at least thats how I feel. Anything that IS hard, people complain about and it gets nerfed. It's sad, there is no sense of accomplishment when beating anything in this game except maybe savage content. Take the steps of faith for example.

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Don't think in such a one dimensional manner. Eureka was plenty large enough and had potential to simultaneously possess derivative (i.e. nameless mob farming, trains, FATEs, NMs, etc.) and EX trial/savage party level content. It just requires they utilize an actual developer with creativity and not a part time unpaid intern.

This way, players like me can avoid the riff raff and fight monsters that fight back, and players who like to "relax" while doing battle content (seriously one of the dumbest things I've ever heard) can do derivative stuff. Rather than have to devote entire sets of resources to fitting a template you can give each content form additional depth, which it desperately needs.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

I hear you, this is stage one of the relic, when has that ever been "engaging"?

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This is true, but is it a good thing? I mean at one point in time people said this is Tuberculosis, when has that ever been cured?

The point is if we resolve ourselves to saying it was done this way for XYZ so it should continue to be this way; we open ourselves to a really stagnant environment, and not ironically - FF14 has been showing signs of that to educated individuals for a while now.

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Originally Posted by Tiaque

You know what scares me?

SE adding near infinite grind Merit levels. To give players a way of non-stop progression, that would award bonus stats and modifiers that would give diminishing returns as ya pump more points into it, kinda like ESO's CP system, just so casual players or low skilled players will have a way to brute force any wall they wanna bypass, like Savage content.

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Do you even participate in EX Trials/Savage? Your post implies that you don't know what you're talking about. Not only is what you're suggesting really unlikely to happen, but it wouldn't even accomplish what you referenced. You're not going to just magically brute force savage with more stats. You'd know this if you tried it.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

This is true, but is it a good thing? I mean at one point in time people said this is Tuberculosis, when has that ever been cured?

The point is if we resolve ourselves to saying it was done this way for XYZ so it should continue to be this way; we open ourselves to a really stagnant environment, and not ironically - FF14 has been showing signs of that to educated individuals for a while now.

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What a complete non sequitur. The equivocation you made between a video game and an illness that killed people is like comparing apples to a tire iron...

That aside, i never said it was a "good" thing at all. Just pointing out what we can expect based off proven patterns of behavior from SE when developing this game. While I would like it to be otherwise I seriously doubt they will be changing their processes any time soon. If you "expected" more than that, thats a "you" problem.

Now if you would like my feelings on how the game "should" be, well, thats a whole different question you would need to ask. Another completely different question you could ask would be "what do you think about the status quo this game has crafted for itself."

Also....

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

But there I go again, "it will be better next patch". Been saying that since about 3.1

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So I am well aware that this game is stagnant and need a good injection of something to upset the status quo.

Since we are really doing this I want just to point out something that is irking me that ppl seems to have missed on the original diadem.

Diadem was intented to be a place where you could gear up via Rng loots by killing enemies over and over, the random aspects of appearances and stats was the incentive that was meant to play on the replayability of the content and the abuility of getting gears with 3 stats capped was to be a sort of horizzontal progression for everyone.

Now just one tiny itty bit problem withat, the entry ilvl for the place was 175........
Why that is a problem you ask? Well when your bronze level gear is 150 and your silver is 180 it means that you invalidate 2 tier of rewards as a barrier to enter, which essentially left 210 ilvl gear as the real only sought after gear worth, which the moment they nerfed their drop rate spelt the end of the place.

Add to that the split in 3 "difficulty" of the zone which essentially split the community for no reason and the inability of entering alone (as in totally alone and free of doing w/e I want) and you possibly have the worst designed content ever.

I don't understand how few ppl don't see this, because if the barrier to enter diadem was 142 (ARF ilvl barrier) I can garantee that the zone would've fared much better, simply because it could've been an option over tomestone farming.
I just don't know how this is beign ignored, it's how you DON'T create a loot based content, games like Diablo are fun at the start because you get loot quickly at the start until you run at the end game where you need certain pieces, SE screwed that badly by essentially asking to come with essentially already end game loots, like you start D3, POE or any other loot game with a full set and you only need rare pieces to get it done.
Really............ for who was Diadem exactly? It wasn't for gearing new ppl up since you had to have essentially all 180 pieces and few 170 items to get inside, gatherers could get some mats yes, but most unique intems in there were worthless till they added relics and , so ye probably the worst piece of content I've ever seen and I enjoyed farming on it , since well.... I like to kill things, but ye bad implementation overall

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Really............ for who was Diadem exactly? It wasn't for gearing new ppl up since you had to have essentially all 180 pieces and few 170 items to get inside, gatherers could get some mats yes, but most unique intems in there were worthless till they added relics and , so ye probably the worst piece of content I've ever seen and I enjoyed farming on it , since well.... I like to kill things, but ye bad implementation overall

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They were more for the kinda end-game gearers, who wanted to min-max, as the stats on gear in diadem had different weights, often better than other gear of the same ilvl. Some had such high stats that it was ridiculous, my FC would call those ones the "God Tier".

IIRC the weapon that was brought out in diadem 2.0 had a higher ilvl than the relic at the time.
Also, back in the day, when pvp still had stat weights, diadem gear synced better (after they fixed it), than all other gear in the game. As a pvper, I got a lot of use out of that gear at the time. (Sync was 150 for pvp back then, so I could even use the lowest ilvl for min-maxing in pvp).

With the low ilvl gear, you could trade it in for spoils if you didn't need it to buy the mount and crafting items.
I made millions selling the Dryad Sap from there :P

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

do you imagine this changing on any fight that has no realistic player limit? if you do, how?

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-Transform x% of the players that participate in the FATE into something (a fairy, a cactuar, whatever) , give them 1 or 2 skill to stop the boss to do a paralysing attack?
-Spawn bombs to carry under the boss
-Give debuff that can invert control/ force you to move over a zone that get rid of the debuff/ ...
- 2 or more boss that switch elements between them and if you it them with a wrong one you get a reflect
- special(s) skill(s) like the fight with lakshmi to resist a particular attack / boost your damage/ ... (you get the skill while in the FATE zone)

This is only a few things that I found under 10 minutes of thinking about it.

And I am certain that I can find some more if I cared enough...

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Originally Posted by Pingosteel

-snip-

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The diadem mini-raid made it so certain parties had to go through certain portals to tank and kill certain mobs, and people found it hard enough to do that :D

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Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

because the community can't handle challenging content, at least thats how I feel. Anything that IS hard, people complain about and it gets nerfed. It's sad, there is no sense of accomplishment when beating anything in this game except maybe savage content. Take the steps of faith for example.

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Do you know why they continuously complain? Because it works. Whenever people whine over things being too difficult or unfair, SE has primarily caved. Therefore, why wouldn't they keep complaining? On the few instances SE didn't back down ala Weeping City or Shinryu, people eventually pushed through. The community can easily handle something above the level of braindead but the devs have been long afraid to actually try making things even moderately difficult outside Savage. Even EX Primals have suffered, albeit Shinryu at least makes an argument this expansion.

Frankly speaking though, Steps of Faith was simply a poorly designed fight. Two people were essentially told "don't play your job and shoot stuff with cannons instead." And if you missed one shot of the dragon harpoon, you lost. Oh, but you still had to wait 10-15 minutes for the "You Failed" message to reset the instance. What happened is veteran players bailed en masse because there existed no incentive whatsoever for them to put up with the numerous mistakes or lengthily encounter even with a somewhat decent party.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

They were more for the kinda end-game gearers, who wanted to min-max, as the stats on gear in diadem had different weights, often better than other gear of the same ilvl. Some had such high stats that it was ridiculous, my FC would call those ones the "God Tier".

IIRC the weapon that was brought out in diadem 2.0 had a higher ilvl than the relic at the time.
Also, back in the day, when pvp still had stat weights, diadem gear synced better (after they fixed it), than all other gear in the game. As a pvper, I got a lot of use out of that gear at the time. (Sync was 150 for pvp back then, so I could even use the lowest ilvl for min-maxing in pvp).

With the low ilvl gear, you could trade it in for spoils if you didn't need it to buy the mount and crafting items.
I made millions selling the Dryad Sap from there :P

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It would've been fine it those were the points SE used to advertise the zone, yet they advertised it as a zone where you could group up and farm gear, it's nice that raiders had the possibility of min-maxing, but in the gordias raid enviroment it break the game for some.
Also you mention dryad sap, but I'm sorry to say that ppl were making millions with those since 3.05 when they were added to the game 4 months prior or so. The recipes introduced with diadem were completely useless bar glamouring because they had the great foresight of making them non overmeldable as in the only reason anyone cares fro crafted gear in the first place.

I'm sorry but this basic faults are too much to pass on, Eureka has many faults but at least for a new levelled player IT WORKS

They have stated that for pagos, that they won't be introducing any new steps for the relic armour, only the relic weapon, meaning that relic armour during pagos would just be glamour at that stage, since you can get better gear with tomes. Or run sigmascape NM for the same ilvl gear. I think they are dropping the ball on that one.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

They have stated that for pagos, that they won't be introducing any new steps for the relic armour, only the relic weapon, meaning that relic armour during pagos would just be glamour at that stage, since you can get better gear with tomes. Or run sigmascape NM for the same ilvl gear. I think they are dropping the ball on that one.

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You and I agree on that one, as said there are plenty of wrongs on Eureka, it's simply I cannot pass on the basic game design flaws that diadem had

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Originally Posted by Remedi

You and I agree on that one, as said there are plenty of wrongs on Eureka, it's simply I cannot pass on the basic game design flaws that diadem had

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It's just that Eureka has many of the same flaws, and some which (just my opinion) are worse, yet people many people give Eureka a pass, when I feel like it's no better than the diadem. They repeated many of the Diadems mistakes, while adding it's own (like the god-awful afk trains).

I told you why, they did not make the same mistake of splitting the playerbase and making the entry unresonable like before, those points are extremely important and shouldn't be underestimated, the fact that as soon as you get to 70 you are ready to go in compared to needing essentially close to high end gear is a critical mistake on design that was not repeated.

However pagos does rapresent a possible repetition on that, since adding a new zone does have an impact on the existing one and if the relic requires only the new zone to proceed and the old ones doesn't receive any updates I don't really see how long that zone might last wich will impact new players and also not adding armor is a terrible ideas that impacts usefulness of the whole relic, not to mention a slap in the face on ppl that have got the gear, I can guess they didn't want to overshadow sigmascape gear but srsly it was an interesting idea and they should've experimented with it

I will say that the fact that Eureka is unlocked trough a quest also helped visibility of it, I won't be surprised if ppl didn't even know of the exdistance of diadem

I'm not sure if Diadem really split the player-base that much though. It theoretically appealed to more players. You got the lower level gearers (for the 180 stuff), Higher end (with the 210 stuff), gatherers, crafters, and the ones who wanted the pegasus mount, those who farmed spoils to trade in for mats to sell. Also, iirc you got a fair amount of tomes for doing it.

Who does Eureka appeal to? Low-end gearing, and those who want to do the relic. I guess people who also want the minions, glamours and the mount. That's pretty much it.

Something else not mentioned yet (i dont think) is the way in which you enter.

Diadem:
- Needed a scroll item to participate from a special vendor (after doing the quest to unlock it)
- Have to queue up via a Duty Finder-esque matchmaking system.
- Once in, you are automatically in a party, not sure if there was a way to drop party or add to a party, while within the instance.
- Instance has a linear flow, Go in, do fates, spawn boss, complete instance, IF enough people stick around there was a chance of a special event but it wasnt guarenteed and players all dropped before it proc'd.

Eureka
- do quest, unlock
- talk to NPC (must be present at the NPC's location) to queue for Eureka.
- Instant entry
- Start instance solo, form parties within.
- People come and go, parties form and break constantly, but the instance carries on.

There is a fluidity to Eureka that you dont have in any other content, short of the Hunt train, but that has even less teeth to it than Eureka does. Honestly though, I'm kinda surprised Diadem hasnt been just removed. Its so obsolete now, even the random stat rewards didnt grow with the patches so it was dead by the next iLev upgrade.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

- Once in, you are automatically in a party, not sure if there was a way to drop party or add to a party, while within the instance.
- Instance has a linear flow, Go in, do fates, spawn boss, complete instance, IF enough people stick around there was a chance of a special event but it wasnt guarenteed and players all dropped before it proc'd.

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On the first one, if anyone in your party left, your party would permanently be missing a member/multiple members and could not invite/be invited if you were the last person remaining.
For the second, in Diadem 2.0, you didn't even spawn bosses. You just did some quests, do FATE's to build up enough somethings to progress with the quest, finish that and then stay (for 5 seconds) to do the NM FATE's that would maybe spawn probably. Bonus points if the Emergency Mission happened (literally never for me).

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Bonus points if the Emergency Mission happened (literally never for me).

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IIRC it would happen once per instance, in the hard mode one.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

I'm not sure if Diadem really split the player-base that much though. It theoretically appealed to more players. You got the lower level gearers (for the 180 stuff), Higher end (with the 210 stuff), gatherers, crafters, and the ones who wanted the pegasus mount, those who farmed spoils to trade in for mats to sell. Also, iirc you got a fair amount of tomes for doing it.

Who does Eureka appeal to? Low-end gearing, and those who want to do the relic. I guess people who also want the minions, glamours and the mount. That's pretty much it.

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To get inside Diadem your avg ilvl had to be ilvl 179 which normally would translate to all items 180 and 1 ring 179 or so as such you only pursued 180 as trash items or if you really wanted to min max 180 gear for some reasons, 3.1 unlocked also gordias normal which was giving 190 ilvl gear and required 170, in fact the whole game was locked behind the 170 ilvl barrier, what Diadem HAD to do was to set the barrier to 142 and allow you to skip the gearing up trough tomestones, there was no other way to unlock stuffs in game but tomestones or if you were rich crafted items, but a newly 60 wouldn't really be that rich.

The low end gearing of Eureka is not as bad as you make it out to be, for startes the reward is on par with uncapped tomestones and then you have a somehwat quick way to cap weekly tomestones if you so wish, as such the reward structure is much better than diadem, it offers an alternative in the way the game works if you wish so.

Also Mageblack brings out another problem that diadem had and that Eureka resolved, if some1 dropped the party your farming was screwed because it could lead to not beign able to do enough dmg to receive validity to loot and wasting anyone time.

While I understand that what you say it's how you feel about the content compared to diadem, there are simply some aspects of it that really ARE much worse than Eureka, Eureka's problems are mostly lacking content in it, the foundation in it is better and shows some improvements, remember I enjoyed diadem during it's prime time and had good times, but I need to distance myself from that analyze the facts

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

IIRC it would happen once per instance, in the hard mode one.

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But because it's random when it happens, there's a chance your party would leave once they're done before it even happens.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, people play poorly. They'd rather stay AFK and gain pitiful experience points and no crystal from high level NM instead of actually targeting monsters of the appropriate level and gain much higher Xp/Protean crystal per hour.

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When the alternative is killing mindless trash mobs with no mechanics beyond auto attacks, I don't blame people for preferring to AFK and collect rewards while playing on their phones or alt-tabbing to reddit or the forums. If they made trash mobs more interesting, people wouldn't be so opposed to grinding them.

I enjoyed Diadem more tbh. When entering for the first time I was at my full strength which I earned by leveling the job to max level, and could fly straight into battle. Notice how I used the the words fly straight instead of run a convoluted path around mountains and cliffs which only have the one purpose of wasting my time. There were treasures to find, objectives to do and a large scale boss fight (quite fun too) with a powerful but not game breaking reward.

In Eureka there are fairies which are usually not worth missing out on the incoming fate, one time quests and being too underpowered to make any meaningful contribution. Finally at level 19-20 I could at least help with farming but then found out the final battle had no more mechanics than hunt and fate bosses. I wish they had made something like the emergency mission in place of Pazuzu.

If we could spend uncapped tomes on relic gear and weapons I think I would have skipped Eureka. Similarly, if we could earn relics in Diadem I would rather go back there. Think about being able to gather Anemos Crystals from DoL nodes or get them from chests as well as from fates in Diadem, or being able to get Pazu feathers from the emergency mission. If Diadem had the flexible group forming system that Eureka has it would be a better place to farm relics, imho.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

To get inside Diadem your avg ilvl had to be ilvl 179 which normally would translate to all items 180 and 1 ring 179 or so as such you only pursued 180 as trash items or if you really wanted to min max 180 gear for some reasons, 3.1 unlocked also gordias normal which was giving 190 ilvl gear and required 170, in fact the whole game was locked behind the 170 ilvl barrier, what Diadem HAD to do was to set the barrier to 142 and allow you to skip the gearing up trough tomestones, there was no other way to unlock stuffs in game but tomestones or if you were rich crafted items, but a newly 60 wouldn't really be that rich.The low end gearing of Eureka is not as bad as you make it out to be, for startes the reward is on par with uncapped tomestones and then you have a somehwat quick way to cap weekly tomestones if you so wish, as such the reward structure is much better than diadem, it offers an alternative in the way the game works if you wish so.

Also Mageblack brings out another problem that diadem had and that Eureka resolved, if some1 dropped the party your farming was screwed because it could lead to not beign able to do enough dmg to receive validity to loot and wasting anyone time.

While I understand that what you say it's how you feel about the content compared to diadem, there are simply some aspects of it that really ARE much worse than Eureka, Eureka's problems are mostly lacking content in it, the foundation in it is better and shows some improvements, remember I enjoyed diadem during it's prime time and had good times, but I need to distance myself from that analyze the facts

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For the sake of conversation, let's say that the rewards are better in Eureka than in Diadem (both are shitty tough because the gearing mechanics in this game is really not good) and that the access to Eureka is easier, which is true.


But the grind itself is probably one of the most stultifying things I saw in a game. Mindbless mobs, mindless NM, mindless progression. You follow the train like a sheep, participate in the fight or not, and you still get rewarded.

Sure, there's a better sens of community in there, but it just say how much solo-oriented FFXIV is in general. Getting raised, talking or riding with others is the most basics things in a MMO.
And outside of that, Eureka offer absolutely no teamplay, just the strength of the number by zerging trough the FATEs with no cohesion.

People can like it if they want. But Eureka is a pure failure in game design. And that just show how shitty Diadem was.

All true, that's why I say that there's plenty of wrong in Eureka, my point is how you said that diadem really was that much worse and I think sometimes ppl don't really get how much worse it was

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Originally Posted by Remedi

All true, that's why I say that there's plenty of wrong in Eureka, my point is how you said that diadem really was that much worse and I think sometimes ppl don't really get how much worse it was

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You might be confusing me with someone else, since I said this, in my first post on the topic :

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

Of course, Eureka is better than the Diadem. But it's better in the sense that sleeping on the street is better than sleeping in the sewers ...

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But overall, I agree with your post that said that the Diadem miss the point because of the reward system. And on this, Eureka is slightly better because you can gear alts with it. But this is exactly why there is a need for a better reward system, so that the devs can make more engaging content around it.

It won't be easy, but I really think it as to be done, somehow.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

What a complete non sequitur. The equivocation you made between a video game and an illness that killed people is like comparing apples to a tire iron...

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It's not that bad :)

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That aside, i never said it was a "good" thing at all. Just pointing out what we can expect based off proven patterns of behavior from SE when developing this game. While I would like it to be otherwise I seriously doubt they will be changing their processes any time soon. If you "expected" more than that, thats a "you" problem.

Now if you would like my feelings on how the game "should" be, well, thats a whole different question you would need to ask. Another completely different question you could ask would be "what do you think about the status quo this game has crafted for itself."

Also....

So I am well aware that this game is stagnant and need a good injection of something to upset the status quo.

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We're on the same team here. To clarify - I was asking if you personally (or anyone) thought it was a good idea to keep things the same. For instance, speaking strictly personally, I'm tired of so many different content forms because they offer no engagement, replayability, or reward.

Things like the relic are great, but I really hate the idea that relic can ONLY be acquired by mindless content. It really should have multiple pathways. I also disagree that my expectations that MAYBE just maybe they'd try something new were unreasonable though.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

It's not that bad :)



We're on the same team here. To clarify - I was asking if you personally (or anyone) thought it was a good idea to keep things the same. For instance, speaking strictly personally, I'm tired of so many different content forms because they offer no engagement, replayability, or reward.

Things like the relic are great, but I really hate the idea that relic can ONLY be acquired by mindless content. It really should have multiple pathways. I also disagree that my expectations that MAYBE just maybe they'd try something new were unreasonable though.

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Your not wrong for wanting or hoping for something to change. I just dont understand what could have led you to expect it to change. Until SE changes their position on appealing to the lowest common denominator and then drastically overhaul the the core concept of their armory system (homogenized jobs), and decide to really shake up their incentives (Gear with interesting stats/horizontal progression), then the shake up you are looking for cannot happen. The devs have painted themselves into a corner and the only way out would be the introduction of an expansion that brings the necessary groundwork for change.

I see this most when I think of new jobs. People want BLU, well, i'm terribly sorry but you will NOT get the BLU you want. The only time you will "capture a move from an enemy" will be in your class quests, you will do it once as a cutscene after the fight, then *poof* you have "Goblin Punch" which is now part of your base combo. There will not be any randomness to what moves you can get because all the combat needs to be predictable by the devs for ease of balancing. Same thing for BST, you will get a reskinned SMN. Because what kind of backlash do you think would happen when the new job queues and you "forgot" got capture "X" before the dungeon, now you are not functioning at capacity for the instance. Look at the Tank thread on the front page right now and thats something that tanks always have...

But I digress. I do have my gripes as well as my defenses for this game, most of my gripes are things that ultimately would need another Meteor to crash down and force the world to reset and I know that will never happen. This is the game we have and I should set my expectations accordingly, you seem intelligent enough to understand this. So, rather than ask for things I seriously doubt we will ever see, I look at the content as is and find ways to make it more interesting within the context of said content while knowing they most likely wont do it the way I envisioned.

Since 3.1 or.2 I realized this team has created a safe zone for content that they are afraid to step out of, almost every time they do, its a fail. LoV, Diadem 1 and 2, the whole Golden Saucer. Even when it is a success, because of the strong vertical progression they have, it just fades away. BCoB, Alex, PotD, Almost all dungeons from 2.X and 3.X, etc. I recall the dev team quoting "they made Alex normal so more people could experience the content and all the hard work from our dev team will be experienced by more people." But how much other content is now sitting in a database collecting dust?

Sorry, I got off on a tangent again.... ignore me...

I , for one, hope that they'll implement the woken mechanic of ultimate to dungeons and raids as an achievement system or ulduar hard modes.
they said they have troibles to add those because they needed certain technology to achieve that and now e have it. so bring it on

Honestly, Eureka pisses me off. The thing is in 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 for relics, Yoshi wanted them to be hard to get, and Rare, and did a good job doing so for most of them, being as the "Difficulty" in it was the insane grind, but the thing is you had to know your class really damn well to Raid Tier level to make the process of getting a relic that much faster via doing speed runs for light, or for the tokens you needed to advance the step and so forth.

Eureka though? Any Idiot with a pulse can just spam one ability all day and night long in NM Train parties, and get their Relic after 5-9 days. Then faster after that for each additional one since 20 is reached.

For gods sakes, I seen tanks flat out die from not getting a single, friggen, heal, from their healers, even if their was like 3 or 4 of em in the party, cuz they are too busy just dpsing and not giving a damn. Then they wonder why the boss often goes out of control and shoves a Claw/Fang/Sword/Tail/Fireball/Poisoncloud/Mucus Spray/ice/thunderbolt etc up their ass one or two shotting them, then they proceed to make some snide dumb shit remark about it.

I hope the next chapter of Eureka does something to weed out most of these players, they do not deserve relic.

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Originally Posted by Tiaque

Eureka though? Any Idiot with a pulse can just spam one ability all day and night long in NM Train parties, and get their Relic after 5-9 days. Then faster after that for each additional one since 20 is reached.

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The first 2 steps of Anima were :
- Grind some FATES to drop crystals
- Do some dungeons with several of them available unsynced

Any idiot with a pulse could do that. Let's wait for the next steps before judging the "difficulty" of the weapon.

Don’t think SE knows how to spice things up. At least give us unique quirky things while we mindlessly kill the same thing for the 100th time. Give us potions or items like deep dungeon has. Let players transform into monster or grow in size. Who cares if the monsters die faster. Let us have fun SE T^T . No creativity whatsoever in Eureka. How is it different from the outside world? I’d rather do dungeon farming again then Eureka. It’s so boring.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

The first 2 steps of Anima were :
- Grind some FATES to drop crystals
- Do some dungeons with several of them available unsynced

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And for the Atma-Animus step (leaving out the unfinished and Relic-Zenith steps since they were in the game on release)...
Atma: Farm low level FATE's in specific zones for X hours (days or weeks, depending on your luck)
Animus: Farm Tomestones of Myth to buy books, which then have you kill specific monsters, do dungeons (on that job and you need to be alive when the final boss is killed) and (wait hours for) FATEs.