Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

I was waiting for this response. It's almost as bad as Riyah's job comment.

"Hey, guys. It only took us 55 minutes to clear something that should have taken 15 minutes, but we did it!"

That's nonsense and you know it.

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I can see both sides of this one, but sometimes the 55 minute run is more fun. They certainly give you better stories for better or worse.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

The WHM that only puts up Regen and then afk's for 30 seconds, regardless if their heals are needed or not.

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I only afk for Casual Eating if I am not in the middle of a quest or any immediate instanced battle. I Regen me and spam Cure on members while avoiding AOEs during trials or dungeon runs with my Squadron.

IRL examples are usually horrible but whenever I see arguments like someone presented on the first page that it's a game not a job it brings this to mind. If they were playing baseball with friends/family would they refuse to put in minimal effort to play? "It's not MLB why do I have to run the bases?" "It's not MLB why should I swing this heavy bat?" "It's not MLB why do I have to pitch again so soon what's the hurry?"

Yes this is first and foremost a game and the main goal is to have fun. However this is also a MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role-playing game for those of you who didn't know) and those other pixel people on your screen actually do represent real life people. Shocking, isn't it. Perhaps what's even more shocking is they all value their time and fun just as much as you value yours. At what point did your $15 a month become more important than their $45-$105 a month? Is it too much to ask to have common decency and respect for other people instead of taking the overly selfish approach of "it's just a game not a job so why should I put effort in?" in whatever dungeon or trial you wind up in with them? No one expects you to be a god behind a keyboard/controller but at least try and make it seem like you aren't completely disrespecting the other people in your group.

Propousals:
First of all, make sure Hall of the Novice cannot be skipped by anyone, who is for the first time taken upon a new role at least. Failure to complete all Hall of the Novice lessons restricts player from group content.
Second, make Mentors relevant by giving them special rights to actually Mentor people, guide them, instead of them being just the crown wearers that can be ignored. Mentors must be reduced in numbers, probably interviewed, but should be able to be judges of how people perform in group content and have a right to remove player from group with automatically locking group content, until player repeats Hall of the Novice lessons to the last. Any abuse of Mentor rights should be an object to banhammer and permanent removal of Mentor status

Sounds like too much power for someone not employed by SE.

git guuuuuuuuuuud

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

If you got the clear then time wasn't wasted.

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A good or even decent Rabanastre usually takes 30ish minutes. I've spent over an hour in there on a few occasions because people have no idea what they're doing. In what universe have these players not wasted my time when replace them would speed up the raid by more than double?

It depends where this happens. iirc everything under level 30 was meant to get the feel of the game. If I'm not that comfortable with how long they took to learn, it just means I'm no longer a casual and should stop queueing for it. Aren't they annoyed too that their runs and queues are long? Same as fixing many broken mindsets, stop carrying and they won't be carried, stop buying gils and there won't be rmt. Put on 1-2 piece of glamor so you would be lower than sync'ed level.

Above level 42 (last class skill), there needs to be Hall of Novice (Hard/Extreme/Savage) where it's not skippable and possible to fail it 100x. PotD was a decent sandbox, unfortunately it's optional and you can do easier stuff/floor.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Because they think its a game, and you think its a job.

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Uhm. I think this game is a game, and I still play like I have at least two braincells to rub together. This is absolutely one of the most ridiculous defenses of shoddy play that I have seen on these forums, and there’s a lot of those around here.

There’s general ignorance about how to play, and then there’s just flat-out lazy play. Ignorance is acceptable if it’s not willful ignorance, and people want to improve their performance so that they aren’t a burden to the other people they get matched with in DF/PF (this is an MMO, after all, not a single-player RPG). This includes accepting advice gracefully—including the “unsolicited” type that are delivered in a respectful, friendly manner. I do not find lazy play acceptable just because one person thinks that to play the game well equates to the game being a “job”. If you’re going to be uncooperative and/or hostile, I don’t want to be in a party with you, or for you to be in my party.

Sadly, this game doesn’t teach anything to prevent the ignorant play (most things have to be learned via external resources when it comes to playing one’s class/job), and it doesn’t punish for lazy play unless you’re in Extreme/Savage/Ultimate content (and even then, the content is still clearable even with a lot of mistakes—9 deaths + healer LB3 and you can usually still clear V4S if your DPS is decent).

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

If you got the clear then time wasn't wasted.

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Disagree. Expert dungeons can be cleared in 15-20 minutes (sometimes even less). If I get stuck with a group that took 45 minutes to get to the last boss, then that is a waste of my time. I could have done 2 Expert dungeons within that time frame, instead of being stuck in one where people don’t know what they’re doing, or are purposely trolling about to be twats.

Expecting anything out of the duty finder is already expecting too much.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Because this community loves to mollycoddle the mediocre. You need only read these forums for a brief space to learn that for a lot of players, expecting something called "effort" is entirely synonymous with being an "elitist". How dare you expect a tank to hold threat! How dare you expect a WHM to do more than throw out Regen every 20 seconds! How dare you suggest a MNK actually land his positionals! How dare you tell that BLM to stop spamming Blizzard II! I've played many MMOs in my time and I think XIV is the only one I've ever seen where people try so hard to play poorly or to excuse poor play. It's just like being a sane man in a world full of crazies.

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I thought we were talking about truly low-skill players and not the mediocre. This is another problem I have with articulation here on the forums: People conflate mediocrity=bad when that's not even what the word means.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

When they went and nerfed Steps of Faith because it'd have blocked people out of expansion content, it was the probably the biggest indicator that being a poor performer was "okay".

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Or remember when the first few weeks of ARR came out and they nerfed the lvl 15-16 solo instance when you had to take a potion+antidote? Yeah... hah.

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Originally Posted by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu

Above level 42 (last class skill), there needs to be Hall of Novice (Hard/Extreme/Savage) where it's not skippable and possible to fail it 100x.

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Compulsory Hall of the Novice would be great, although possibly putting "too many" roadblocks for an underprepared tank - if they haven't kept up with their class quests, they would need to turn back and do all of those (as you need Shield Lob/Tomahawk for the Novice course) before being able to complete the exercises and move on with the MSQ. Better for everyone overall, but I don't know how they balance that against potential individual frustration.

An "Advanced Hall of the Novice" (Hall of the Initiate? Hall of the Expert?) would be fantastic. The current Hall was a great introduction to the play concepts I needed at that level, and I would love have an in-game tutorials for higher-level strategies and how to properly use the various techniques I am given.

I feel like the game is really lacking in the way it presents new abilities as you learn them from job quests. I feel like the related quest should be about giving you the technique and then sending you on a mission that encourages you to use it - this happens occasionally (eg. the two-part Lv15 Rogue quest that rewards you with stealth mode for completing the first quest then makes you use it in the second) but for the most part you're just given the ability with no suggestion of how or when to use it. And - certainly for me - if I'm not encouraged to try a new ability that I'm not sure how to use, then I'll probably stick to the previous tactics that seemed to be working.

Case in point - I was somewhere around Lv48 on my black mage before I finally worked out the point of Scathe - it's weak, but instant-cast - but when I first received it (fairly early when I was still getting the hang of everything) it was simply described as "a powerful spell" but I looked at the description, only saw it was weaker than either of my elemental spells, didn't understand it and never touched it again. It finally clicked when I was in Copperbell Mines feeling useless against the horde of weak spriggans and wishing I didn't have charge time on every single one of my spells...

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Sadly, this game doesn’t teach anything to prevent the ignorant play (most things have to be learned via external resources when it comes to playing one’s class/job)

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Similar to what I was writing above - it seems so strange to have to turn to external resources for information. Even if you're starting out and *want* to do a good job, it seems natural to assume that you'll learn everything you need within the game itself, or work it out as you go.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Why does it feel like a person playing the game poorly is considered acceptable behavior?

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Because you decided to feel that way.

Honestly, you can feel however you want to about anything. You can choose to tolerate or reject any behavior you feel like. I think the important thing to understand is that it's pretty unreasonable to expect random players who have different backgrounds, mmo experience, insecurity levels, etc to meet your personal minimum standards of performance and security 100% of the time. It's just not going to happen in a pug.

Not saying that poor play is acceptable, but the way they made the leveling experience soo easy does not help either.


- The monsters in the open-world are easy, like very easy. This means that the player only has to use 2-3 skills and the mobs die. With my BLM, I only had to do thunder --> fire ----> fire ----> fire. The main issue is that the player does not learn to use all their skills. I have seen WHM who dont use their buffs, players who dont know when to do AoE and when to use Single type of skills, Dragoons that never use Heavy Thrust, even though it provides 15% increase in damage dealt. Players dont need to use them, because the open-world mobs are to easy. Developers tried to do change this by giving mobs more health in Heavensward, but still no changes.

- The other way to level is via FATES, DEEP DUNGEON or PVP. With FATES, unless you are soloing or killing the bosses, the player will most likely revert back to pressing only few skills. In Deep Dungeons, mobs die too fast and the first 100 floors is a joke. In PvP you are playing differently and lack alot of the PvE skills.

- The last way for people to level is via Dungeons and the issue with this one is that:
1. Queue takes to long for DPS players, which encourages them to either do Fates, PvP or Deep Dungeon.
2. Leveling Dungeons requires that the player only knows the basics when it comes to their classes. The mobs die too fast, mobs die soo fast that in Heavensward and Stormblood players are encouraged to pull two or 3 groups. There is no reason to use all your tools. Which is understandable when doing level 15 or level 30 dungeons, but when Stormblood leveling dungeons are just as easy as the level 15 dungeons, that is when you know something is wrong.

With 5.0, I hope Square Enix does the following:
1. Make the mobs hit harder, let them use more skills that take your HP. Force the players to use their buffs, if players are forced to use all their tools to survive while leveling, they will be more skilled when reaching endgame.
2. Place a ilvl gate on the leveling dungeons, I have seen too many players with gear that are 10-20 levels lower then the content, this needs to end.

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Originally Posted by winsock

I think the important thing to understand is that it's pretty unreasonable to expect random players who have different backgrounds, mmo experience, insecurity levels, etc to meet your personal minimum standards of performance and security 100% of the time.

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When you're engaging in any group-based activity in life there is always a minimum level of competency/contribution required. The baseball analogy above is appropriate. If you can't or won't perform even the basic functions of your role in a team then you are interfering with other people's ability to have fun and you have no business being there. You shouldn't enter into content that entails a cooperative group effort and treat it as a single player experience where nobody else matters but you.

We aren't talking about someone doing 4000 dps instead of 5000 dps, or people who don't know what they're doing yet in Sastasha. We're talking about people who aren't even doing the very basics of the game and their role who are attempting to do max level content meant for people who know the fundamentals of how to play already.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

If you got the clear then time wasn't wasted.

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So would you stay to the end of each dungeon if it needs the whole time every single run? Would you be alright if you need over 120 (?) minutes for each 24 man raid clear every single time no matter how old it is? Because as long as they clear at the end (even with just 5 sec left) its not wasted time?

Honestly I dont want much from players. I just want to go through a dungeon/raid on a reasonable time and I dont care if we wipe to mistakes sometimes. Yet I am still shocked how low the skill bar is for some if you still can call it skill. In my old FC I had a monk that had no idea how to play their job. They were resistant for tips, did not know about their stacks and they did not do much more than one combo..I am quite sure that they dont know what positionals are either. They were at lvl 60 and still had no single idea how to play their job..every time we had them in our group for a dungeon we carried them through it..just have two DDs like that and suddenly you wont clear the dungeon anymore..also funnily they were kinda annoyed that they were kicked from some groups and they left the FC after someone else did not want them in their Nidhogg ex (synch) run..

In the end its not surprising that we have those players. There is nothing in the game that truly forces you to get better and if they are not able to do their job quests, well there is no need for those skills right?

I mean someone in our FC once said that they had a BLM in their group that did like 200 DPS..we were not even sure how something like that is even possible on 60..

People derive enjoyment from games in different manners. Perhaps they are just running content without caring how good they are at the game and just want to relax.
As a healer, I enjoy the 'bad' groups... makes it more fun for me.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Because they think its a game, and you think its a job.

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https://goo.gl/images/oQBCe8

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Originally Posted by Laerune

Not saying that poor play is acceptable, but the way they made the leveling experience soo easy does not help either.


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With 5.0, I hope Square Enix does the following:
1. Make the mobs hit harder, let them use more skills that take your HP. Force the players to use their buffs, if players are forced to use all their tools to survive while leveling, they will be more skilled when reaching endgame.
2. Place a ilvl gate on the leveling dungeons, I have seen too many players with gear that are 10-20 levels lower then the content, this needs to end.

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1. Boss FATES you know those things nobody does that teaches cooperation and getting out of the bad.
2. And where are they pray tell to get the gear they need? Oh wait yeah the dungeon they're in to replace that bad gear with.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

When you're engaging in any group-based activity in life there is always a minimum level of competency/contribution required.

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What you want is unreasonable to expect, so your argument is pointless.

As with any group-based activity in life, there is no guarantee that people for that group-based activity are going to have that minimum level of competency/contribution you are referring to; as such, it is unreasonable to expect a pug to possess this level of competence 100% of the time. If you cannot accept this truth of pugging, you have the option of not pugging.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

If you got the clear then time wasn't wasted.

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If I can do 6 mins v1s runs vs 10 min ones, I lose 4 min right? I can do 5 runs instead 3. Farming- get stuff done soon as possible and get back in soon as possible. I can wipe to zurvan for 45 mins and get 1 kill, that's another waste of time. I'm pretty sure being killed by the boss mulitply times or kill the boss every 2-3 runs, hell even taking 5 min longer per fight is a waste of time.
You know, it's like what the person said ''its just a game not a job'' well figure it out, I work and I do other things EVERYDAY outside the game, I'm productive irl, so when I play the game I want to be productive too, because it's only a small time of my day that I can play. Trying doesn't make it a job, being better at the game doesnt make it a job, playing as a team member isnt job. What makes it a job is that I have to strive 3 times harder for the sake of the person whos unwilling to learn and try to get better

Why are people acting like basic competence and effort are akin to a job? Is your job the only time in life where you decide to do things correctly? Thats pretty grim if so. As people have said before, this game isn't hard at all outside of savage/EX content. That doesn't mean you should waste everyone's time by putting in no effort in a group setting.

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Originally Posted by Raim

Why are people acting like basic competence and effort are akin to a job? Is your job the only time in life where you decide to do things correctly? Thats pretty grim if so. As people have said before, this game isn't hard at all outside of savage/EX content. That doesn't mean you should waste everyone's time by putting in no effort in a group setting.

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You don't pay my bills, bro. I'll live how I like. Life is just a game.

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Originally Posted by Raim

Why are people acting like basic competence and effort are akin to a job? Is your job the only time in life where you decide to do things correctly? Thats pretty grim if so. As people have said before, this game isn't hard at all outside of savage/EX content. That doesn't mean you should waste everyone's time by putting in no effort in a group setting.

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How do you know if someone isn't trying? Unless they tell you, you have no way of knowing.

Except for Sally in accounting. Everyone know about her, how does she keep her job?!?!?

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Originally Posted by winsock

How do you know if someone isn't trying?

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They're on the forums while at wor...I mean they seem bored all the time? >.>

*Is not currently surfing the forums from work, and procrastinating doing things at all...don't know what you're talking about*

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Originally Posted by winsock

How do you know if someone isn't trying? Unless they tell you, you have no way of knowing.

Except for Sally in accounting. Everyone know about her, how does she keep her job?!?!?

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You see it everywhere, in game, reddit and on the forums. I can quote of all those players all day long if you truely want me to.

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Originally Posted by winsock

As with any group-based activity in life, there is no guarantee that people for that group-based activity are going to have that minimum level of competency/contribution you are referring to; as such, it is unreasonable to expect a pug to possess this level of competence 100% of the time. If you cannot accept this truth of pugging, you have the option of not pugging.

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Are you joking? It is perfectly reasonable to expect people to behave as functioning and contributing members of a team. It's rather silly to say "some people will inevitably fail to meet what's expected of them, so you can't have any expectations of people anymore." You're not just lowering the bar, you're eliminating it. You are part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

They're on the forums while at wor...I mean they seem bored all the time? >.>

*Is not currently surfing the forums from work, and procrastinating doing things at all...don't know what you're talking about*

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Dang it, Sally! Get back to work lol

Sigh nothing we can do, think it like this
No matter how much the world tray to stop people from smoking they still smoke... Same go for bad player no matter how much you trained them if they don't wanna get good they be bad anyway.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

A good or even decent Rabanastre usually takes 30ish minutes. I've spent over an hour in there on a few occasions because people have no idea what they're doing. In what universe have these players not wasted my time when replace them would speed up the raid by more than double?

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if Rabanastre is that easy to fill with competent people, you should be doing PF for it instead of DF.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

Are you joking? It is perfectly reasonable to expect people to behave as functioning and contributing members of a team. It's rather silly to say "some people will inevitably fail to meet what's expected of them, so you can't have any expectations of people anymore." You're not just lowering the bar, you're eliminating it. You are part of the problem.

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I'm not removing "the" bar, I'm raising "your" bar.

Tell me, what are you going to do about Johnny "only spams bootshine no matter what anyone says" Smith? Kick him from the party if you must, but you'll find complaining him out of existence to be unfruitful.

You were complaining a minute ago about players not having minimum understanding of the game when they queue for group content and went as far to say that they shouldnt queue. There is irony here in that you pug, but dont seem to have a minimum understand of what pugging is. By your own logic, you have no business pugging right?

Even if just 1% of the player population was a horror story, you are still subject to someone from that 1% becoming a party member should you decide to pug. In a pug, you have no control over who will be in your party and it is reasonable to expect that someone will not meet your expectations at sometime. Instead of whining about it on the forums, you can do something about by not pugging or by just accepting the fact that you will receive bad party members.

The pain is when the good players stop pugging and the less skilled are bereft of people to carry them, whining for nerfs happens and the game becomes even easier.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

If I can do 6 mins v1s runs vs 10 min ones, I lose 4 min right? I can do 5 runs instead 3. Farming- get stuff done soon as possible and get back in soon as possible. I can wipe to zurvan for 45 mins and get 1 kill, that's another waste of time. I'm pretty sure being killed by the boss mulitply times or kill the boss every 2-3 runs, hell even taking 5 min longer per fight is a waste of time.
You know, it's like what the person said ''its just a game not a job'' well figure it out, I work and I do other things EVERYDAY outside the game, I'm productive irl, so when I play the game I want to be productive too, because it's only a small time of my day that I can play. Trying doesn't make it a job, being better at the game doesnt make it a job, playing as a team member isnt job. What makes it a job is that I have to strive 3 times harder for the sake of the person whos unwilling to learn and try to get better

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whether you cleared 5x in an hour or wiped for the full hour, you were playing the same content you intended to play for 60 minutes. equating your game time to productivity makes it sound like you're treating it like a job and not a game.

you didn't lose 4 minutes you were still playing v1s. if productivity is the only thing that matters, don't do it with randoms. if you're not willing to put in the work to put together a group that gives you the amount of productivity you want, you can't expect that level of productivity.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Because you decided to feel that way.

Honestly, you can feel however you want to about anything. You can choose to tolerate or reject any behavior you feel like. I think the important thing to understand is that it's pretty unreasonable to expect random players who have different backgrounds, mmo experience, insecurity levels, etc to meet your personal minimum standards of performance and security 100% of the time. It's just not going to happen in a pug.

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It’s not exactly “high standards” to expect players to perform the bare minimum of their job or to hit more than just one button (see OP’s Butcher Block AND Butcher Block ONLY example).

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

whether you cleared 5x in an hour or wiped for the full hour, you were playing the same content you intended to play for 60 minutes. equating your game time to productivity makes it sound like you're treating it like a job and not a game.

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I’m sorry that I would like to have 5 clears in the span of an hour when I’m farming something, instead of just a singular clear. I’m also sorry that I don’t want to spend an entire lockout wiping to a fight that I am not progging but trying to farm instead of clearing it several times in the span of one total lockout. My bad. Productivity/Efficiency when it comes to clearing and farming content does not equate to treating the game like a job; it’s about making the most out of the time you have to play. For people farming, “making the most” out of their playtime is not getting a single clear in a span of 1 hour, but multiple clears.

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you didn't lose 4 minutes you were still playing v1s. if productivity is the only thing that matters, don't do it with randoms. if you're not willing to put in the work to put together a group that gives you the amount of productivity you want, you can't expect that level of productivity.

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You lose almost a full second run. V1S is easily downed in 5~6 minutes. Spending 10 minutes for one clear is a waste of almost an entire second clear. The idea of “putting a group together” can mean either a static, or a PF, where when you list something as a “farm”, there is a minimum expectation that the people joining are competent when it comes to clearing the content quickly and efficiently.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

whether you cleared 5x in an hour or wiped for the full hour, you were playing the same content you intended to play for 60 minutes. equating your game time to productivity makes it sound like you're treating it like a job and not a game.

you didn't lose 4 minutes you were still playing v1s. if productivity is the only thing that matters, don't do it with randoms. if you're not willing to put in the work to put together a group that gives you the amount of productivity you want, you can't expect that level of productivity.

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You clearly didnt get anything I said.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

whether you cleared 5x in an hour or wiped for the full hour, you were playing the same content you intended to play for 60 minutes. equating your game time to productivity makes it sound like you're treating it like a job and not a game.

you didn't lose 4 minutes you were still playing v1s. if productivity is the only thing that matters, don't do it with randoms. if you're not willing to put in the work to put together a group that gives you the amount of productivity you want, you can't expect that level of productivity.

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By that logic, I can spam Blizzard II endless and defend it through the nebulous term "fun". For a real life equivalent, are you content with someone randomly skating around in a hockey game—making little effort to actually score? Would criticising their lack of equal participation be turning hockey into a job?

And people do make their PFs. These players promptly join despite it clearly labeled "farm," thus applying a general expectation, which they ultimately fail at. So... what's the excuse then?

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Originally Posted by winsock

What you want is unreasonable to expect, so your argument is pointless.

As with any group-based activity in life, there is no guarantee that people for that group-based activity are going to have that minimum level of competency/contribution you are referring to; as such, it is unreasonable to expect a pug to possess this level of competence 100% of the time. If you cannot accept this truth of pugging, you have the option of not pugging.

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By the time players are reaching higher levels of content, it shouldn't be physically possible for my examples to reach that content without being hand held through it. I don't know how someone gets to Snowcloak with only butcher's block. I don't know how people make it into expert with only thunder IV. I don't know how I can get a healer that has full 340 in Shinryu EX, but barely heals anybody.

As I've stated already, I am NOT expecting some grand play. I just think it's terrible design for someone to be able to reach higher levels of content without pressing more than 1 button.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It’s not exactly “high standards” to expect players to perform the bare minimum of their job or to hit more than just one button (see OP’s Butcher Block AND Butcher Block ONLY example).

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Also This. ^ That's my expectation. Bare minimum of their job. I expect tanks to hold threat. I expect healers to keep everyone alive. I expect DPS to press DPS buttons. Mistakes happen and people aren't perfect, I get that. If you someone wants to explain to me though why pressing only Butcher's Block is super duper fun, I'd love to hear it. I like Dragon Kick on Monk a lot, but I don't spam it to death, because I'm gonna see my cool attack anyways doing combo's and just spamming it makes the fight take forever.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It’s not exactly “high standards” to expect players to perform the bare minimum of their job or to hit more than just one button (see OP’s Butcher Block AND Butcher Block ONLY example).

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It's not whether the standards are high or low, it's whether or not they are reasonable standards to hold everyone to.

Consider the following players:
A) experienced ffxiv tank rolls a new tank character on a new server
B) new ffxiv tank player, but veteran tank in countless mmos
C) veteran ffxiv player, but completely new to tanking
D) completely new to mmos
E) completely new to video games
^ these players will all be very different skill-wise at level 30.

Is it really that unreasonable for someone completely new to videogames to wrongly assume that "cooler animation" equals "unconditionally better"?
Is it really reasonable to expect that no one make that mistake?

Yet, they will likely all make it to lvl 30 because the game's bare minimum standards are not the same as your minimum standards.


And what are you going to do about it? Stop pugging? Kick from party and move on? or rant on the forums about the younger generation?

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

f George Carlin: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that".

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This is such an awesome quote, and totally apropos.

Im usually pretty hard on myself when it comes to my performance in games. I will take the criticism when it is given (usually don't get any ^^) but also hold my self to the standard of not being "that guy/gal" when I join a party. I usually announce that I haven't tanked/healed a dungeon/boss. No one is perfect and most normal people don't except perfect play.

It is very concerning how people can really be so horrid at MMOs. This game isn't really that hard most of the way though, and then certain challenges separate the men/women from the boys/girls. Titan EX being the first example.

People still have no idea what to do there and still refuse help/assistance when offered.