Feedback Regarding GM Dorxenore (Further Review by Management Recommended)

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Originally Posted by EveK

USA uses ESRB. The Teen rating is 13+.

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That is actually only for the game itself, and what the developers put into it. Underneath any of those rating "seals" it says "Online interactions not rated".

I'll be the one to say it - real life teens aren't rated T. You shouldn't erp in the Novice Network, but teens were probably exposed to a lot more than people here seem to give them credit for.

This game has consistency issues with its GMs that need to be addressed because I've known people who have been banned for plain swearing when we have a filter but then some GMs will overlook targeted harassment (that includes swearing) and publicized sexual content.

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Originally Posted by EveK

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No Offense, but aren't you going a weee bit SJW on the novice network? I'm not on your server and I'm not a mentor, but from reading your interactions with the GM I think your going all SJW on things you perceive should or shouldn't be talked about, how everybody should act in accordance to your sensitivity and if they don't act the way you want them you punish them or report them.

Just from reading I have to side with the GM on this, he did what is appropriate by considering "other" people's sensitivities and not just yours.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I think when it comes to the Newcomer Network, the conversations should be held to only helping newcomers. I have nothing aganst profanities, but the Newcomer Network is a chatroom for newcomers, they go there to get answers to their questions and mentors go there to help the newcomers, atleast this was the orignal concept for the channel.

SE has decided that the Newcomer Network has become another chat channel, so I think OP should just blacklist and move on. As much as we disgree with how the Newcomer Network is used right now, aslong as SE is oke with how it is right now, nothing will change. Just dont bother OP, blacklist and move on.



FFXIV should have the PEGI rating in Germany aswell and in Europe FFXIV has 16 years and older rating.

Still this does not stop kids from playing this game, but SE has intended for this game to be 16 years and older.

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And still FF is 12+ here. If you don't believe me look it up. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Ilan

And still FF is 12+ here. If you don't believe me look it up. :rolleyes:

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"Here." Must be some new country.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

And still FF is 12+ here. If you don't believe me look it up. :rolleyes:

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Wouldn't their own videos reflect that then? On their YouTube channel, the videos for patch 4.1 showcase the ratings for each language; Japanese is unrated, US uses ESRB T, and all European locations uses PEGI 16, including the video for German players. IJS, if it's really rated for 12 of age and up, you'd think it'd be reflected there.

It sounds like the moderators are doing their job. You're wanting them to do a job you THINK you have.

A small sample of people from your server have bothered to find this thread and fill us in on your position. I'm sure the Novice Network don't need you. Maybe leave the moderation to the moderators? Or people who can separate emotions from duty?

Okay, I'm setting aside the issues people have with Eve. But I see people actually defending vulgarity and obscenity because it's in a chat channel and not in say or shout. So while the original statement may have been blown out of proportion by the OP, talk about sexual fantasies or excessive profanity and vulgarity don't belong in any public forum, be it say, shout, yell, or the Novice Network. Private linkshells and tells and even say in a private area like a house are a completely different animal. But if it's public, it just doesn't belong there. Even while the game may toss out the occasional bitch (like I heard in MSQ recently) or have quests like our favorite NPC and his ladies in the postmaster series, it still keeps this sort of thing in mind and has a line it doesn't cross.

Also, whatever issues people might have with Eve, starting something off with "I see you're putting in X again" is highly unprofessional. From this GM's statements, it does appear they need training in how to properly address customers and work in a customer service field.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

If it's not asking too much, could you post a screenshot of this reply? If this is true this is a troubling stance they are taking.

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Sure thing.

Part 1: https://puu.sh/y0fjY/e9ef498d0b.png
Part 2: https://puu.sh/y0fkW/626b5ce403.png

I also have the entire chat log that led to the report if you want, but it will take quite a few screens. I'd rather not though as I don't want Eve to be harassed. If you want it, it will have to be in PM.

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Originally Posted by Darkobra

It sounds like the moderators are doing their job. You're wanting them to do a job you THINK you have.

A small sample of people from your server have bothered to find this thread and fill us in on your position. I'm sure the Novice Network don't need you. Maybe leave the moderation to the moderators? Or people who can separate emotions from duty?

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Actually, he/she is bothering to the job no one does.
The same thing happened on my server, but honestly, most people who got kicked deserved it.
One of them was spamming moans and annoying stuff. A mentor. They got kicked, came back 3 hours later to do the same. And that repeated for days.

Why can't people who are doing absolutely nothing to support novices in the novice network cannot be banned from accessing it?
Why can't mentors be stripped from their crowns if they're not doing their job and are doing exactly the opposite?

No place can progress without rules. And if the GM is saying we can chat about whatever we please, I can basically keep spamming and reporting whoever kicks me because I was in my right to do so.

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Originally Posted by Aoreka

Sure thing.

Part 1: https://puu.sh/y0fjY/e9ef498d0b.png
Part 2: https://puu.sh/y0fkW/626b5ce403.png

I also have the entire chat log that led to the report if you want, but it will take quite a few screens. I'd rather not though as I don't want Eve to be harassed. If you want it, it will have to be in PM.

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This isn't a witch hunt. Keep your 'evidence' to yourself.
Even if his attitude has not been the best, the answer the GM gave him is still shocking to me.

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

Actually, he/she is bothering to the job no one does.
The same thing happened on my server, but honestly, most people who got kicked deserved it.
One of them was spamming moans and annoying stuff. A mentor. They got kicked, came back 3 hours later to do the same. And that repeated for days.

Why can't people who are doing absolutely nothing to support novices in the novice network cannot be banned from accessing it?
Why can't mentors be stripped from their crowns if they're not doing their job and are doing exactly the opposite?

No place can progress without rules. And if the GM is saying we can chat about whatever we please, I can basically keep spamming and reporting whoever kicks me because I was in my right to do so.

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You know the issue's still being investigated, right? If you feel you can spam and report without repercussions, that's entirely on you. I won't stop you. Some problems handle themselves. ;)

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Originally Posted by Darkobra

You know the issue's still being investigated, right? If you feel you can spam and report without repercussions, that's entirely on you. I won't stop you. Some problems handle themselves. ;)

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They basically told them to block the person. So that's saying people can say whatever they want, and if you don't feel confortable with it, be it sex, religion, politics, or whatever, just block them.

Doesn't matter if the issue is still investigated, he said he'd continue to because the OP requested it. The GM felt his answer and solution was adequate. Which may be for this case, but I'm not sure simply blacklisting people should be the solution for any future case.

Grow a thicker skin will you? What's up with the influx of snowflakes lately.

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

They basically told them to block the person. So that's saying people can say whatever they want, and if you don't feel confortable with it, be it sex, religion, politics, or whatever, just block them.

Doesn't matter if the issue is still investigated, he said he'd continue to because the OP requested it. The GM felt his answer and solution was adequate. Which may be for this case, but I'm not sure simply blacklisting people should be the solution for any future case.

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Do you know what was said? It was one line with a racy word, and Eve kicked them without warning.

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Originally Posted by Lucerna

Do you know what was said? It was one line with a racy word, and Eve kicked them without warning.

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Hello! Thanks for reading my comment. I did say it may be the solution for this case somewhere in there.

And as I said, a mentor exclusively rejoined the NN after 3 hours passed from his kicks to keep spamming. Sure I can blacklist him, but this is seen as normal, acceptable behavior? GMs rarely even offer a solution because 'i can't talk about the outcome of your report'. GMs are useless then. I better start blacklisting everyone and make sure no one has access to my account or my in game stuff, or my FCs, cause in the end I'm alone. And I have to accept this as normal behavior, as if other games' GMs acted the same. Meh.

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

Hello! Thanks for reading my comment. I did say it may be the solution for this case somewhere in there.

And as I said, a mentor exclusively rejoined the NN after 3 hours passed from his kicks to keep spamming. Sure I can blacklist him, but this is seen as normal, acceptable behavior? GMs rarely even offer a solution because 'i can't talk about the outcome of your report'. GMs are useless then. I better start blacklisting everyone and make sure no one has access to my account or my in game stuff, or my FCs, cause in the end I'm alone. And I have to accept this as normal behaviors, as if other games acted the same. Meh.

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Actually, in my experience as a mentor, if enough people in novice network find some one just spamming and report them, the GMs take action after an investigation. The difference is multiple lines of pointless spam versus one word that the vast minority took offense to.

Lots of people in this thread thumping their chests about how tough they are that they can survive racy chat messages. Grats to you but no one cares and that's not the point. The reason public discourse is moderated is so that this does not a tasteless, smut-filled chat room like 4chan. If you want to create a linkshell or FC dedicated to that, go for it. But this is novice network. Context matters.

This GM is wrong and I really do hope that this is not truly the company's stance on this crap.

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Originally Posted by Lucerna

Actually, in my experience as a mentor, if enough people in novice network find some one just spamming and report them, the GMs take action after an investigation. The difference is multiple lines of pointless spam versus one word that the vast minority took offense to.

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I chatted with other mentors at the time, when the person who kicked the spammer was kicked by someone who felt his kicks were abusive and pointless. Some of us agreed it was spam and that we were in our right to kick them. Others said spam doesn't hurt anybody, and that it is ridiculous to kick people for that. In the end, you rely on solely on mentors to moderate the channel. It'll be funny when we end up kicking each other. I just won't bother anymore, if newbies are attacked of feel offended by a mentor's behavior to the point of leaving the game it's SQEX's fault.

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Originally Posted by Clicked

Lots of people in this thread thumping their chests about tough they that they can survive racy chat messages. [..].

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I have two T-shirts labeled:
-"I Have Survived Barrens Chat"
and
-"I have Survived Pornshire"

Some of us can handle it and are really numb to it by now.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Wouldn't their own videos reflect that then? On their YouTube channel, the videos for patch 4.1 showcase the ratings for each language; Japanese is unrated, US uses ESRB T, and all European locations uses PEGI 16, including the video for German players. IJS, if it's really rated for 12 of age and up, you'd think it'd be reflected there.

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If you go to the german version of FFXIV site, on the bottom it says 12+, because Germany doesn't use PEGI, it uses USK.
Scroll to the bottom: https://de.finalfantasyxiv.com/
The USK site that lists FFXIV as 12+ http://www.usk.de/titelsuche/titelsu...6fa8f7c3e3b73d

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

As the GM said, blacklist them and move on. Also you're on Balmung and (though revolting to many of us) this seems to be acceptable behavior there. Have you thought of moving to another server where this isn't the norm? Not that this kind of thing can't happen on any server, but it seems to be less prevalent on other servers. I think Mateus is the new rp server so might want to avoid that one too.

Also, this is not really the GM's fault. Free speech is a thing, even if we don't like what is being said.

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erp is against the tos if done in public. tells they have 0 control, but erp is against the tos.

Obviously you should employ some judgement as to when you think it is or is not appropriate to use naughty language, but the ESRB, PEGI, etc have no jurisdiction when it comes to what players do.

That is why in addition to the game's rating, we get the "online interactions are not rated" clause.

More often than not, no one is going to report you for using the f-word or posting a macro of a buff cat with a giant penis - it is still a risk, however. I am more in the camp that people shouldn't be penalized for language unless it is abusive or defamatory, but at the end of the day all of this is at SE's discretion.

Some of the NPCS and quests use cuss words or very vulgar language. There's an entire quest line around discussing a guy's length.

Wait, wait, wait...

So you've kicked someone from NN for saying the word 'futa'?

You know you are on Balmung, right?

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Originally Posted by Justuas

The game is rated 16+ and the game itself contains mild profanity.

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I took that directly from the FFXIV user agreement (English) that is found here

https://i.imgflip.com/1xs3im.jpg

I don’t think the GM has an issue with Eve reporting people for vulgarity or obscenity, the GM is just saying “Hey, when you kick people afterwards you’re actively trying to moderate the speech in Novice Network, and that’s not your job. Please feel free to report but then simply blacklist the person pending an investigation instead of taking things into your own hands and kicking the offender.”

Eve, please stop kicking people. You’re not a moderator or a GM. Please leave that stuff to the people who were actually given the authority to do so, which you were not.

Thank you to the 27 and counting people that show their support for this even though I didn't even post it in the right forum. Since there's so much interest and confusion, this may help a little for additional context:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ice-Network%29

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Originally Posted by Emstidor

Eve, please stop kicking people. You’re not a moderator or a GM. Please leave that stuff to the people who were actually given the authority to do so, which you were not.

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As mentors we are given authority to kick players from the novice network.
If they didn't want us to moderate it, we wouldn't be able to kick in the first place.

They know the chat needs moderation, but they don't stipulate any rules or guidelines on what should be considered an offence worth a kick. So the logical conclusion would be to base it off the ToS, which we are doing.

Sure, some people can and will abuse this power.

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Originally Posted by SwdVengeance

Ok, I'm surprised people are seemingly defending the people posting obscene/offensive language in NN. For those uninformed, this is quoted straight from the ToS under "Prohibited Activities":



Given this, a full on normal report of the person is permissible and advised by SE themselves.

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See the problem is you where not there, it was not really cursing or vulgarity (op is exaggerated and i am sure MEANY WILL AGREE to that of who was there) It was just an innuendo, and the thing is, I find that passable because for the groups it is "unfit for" , mainly the age thing, would vaugly understand it or not even care about what is being talking about. So it is not very offensive and the only person in the channel that had an issue with it was Eve, that is why Eve got kicked for the kick abuse, because you can't be kicking people over one person disagreeing with ... chat... normal chat?

If eve would just said nothing, I bet nothing would of happen out of it, but it was just drama provoking.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

erp is against the tos if done in public. tells they have 0 control, but erp is against the tos.

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Novice network is not regarded as a pure public channel, GMs moderate it like a FC or LS, you really have to go over the top for gms take action on. What was said was not crossing any line, Eve is over excessive in kicking people. However if they where actually doing ERP in the novice, yeah I would have issues on that, not what happened though. I mean I seen someone jokingly making out with an Aetheryte but... I just found that funny. " Oh Aetheryte senpai ... *forget the rest, might of happened when eve was offline cuz no drama happened -.-

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Originally Posted by Aoreka

Sure thing.

Part 1: https://puu.sh/y0fjY/e9ef498d0b.png
Part 2: https://puu.sh/y0fkW/626b5ce403.png

I also have the entire chat log that led to the report if you want, but it will take quite a few screens. I'd rather not though as I don't want Eve to be harassed. If you want it, it will have to be in PM.

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Yeah this is weird, that can just start a kick fest.

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Originally Posted by EveK

Thank you to the 27 and counting people that show their support for this even though I didn't even post it in the right forum. Since there's so much interest and confusion, this may help a little for additional context:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ice-Network%29

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I agree consistency is an issue with the GM team but even you have to admit you get a bit excessive and go a bit extreme in your "moderations" I am shocked you didn't try pull kick abuse since you are kicked an awful lot over it. It is so routine now, the reason for kicking Eve Knight is stated " as usual"

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

This isn't a witch hunt. Keep your 'evidence' to yourself.
Even if his attitude has not been the best, the answer the GM gave him is still shocking to me.

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Did you get hurt when you threw yourself into my conversation? lol. No one said it was a witch hunt. The person asked me for screenshots to confirm what I said about the Gm's stance on NN which is very relevant to the topic. I left out the "evidence" so there is no harassment as I know this person is very disliked by a lot of people on OUR server, however if the person was curious as to more context of the issue I was willing to post it to them privately. Do explain how I'm witch hunting. :3 Edit: I do mean that in a joking playful way, as I already stated my stance is neutral on, Eve and everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Aoreka

Did you get hurt when you threw yourself into my conversation? lol. No one said it was a witch hunt. The person asked me for screenshots to confirm what I said about the Gm's stance on NN which is very relevant to the topic. I left out the "evidence" so there is no harassment as I know this person is very disliked by a lot of people on OUR server, however if the personwas curious as to more context of the issue I was willing to post it to them privately. Do explain how I'm witch hunting. :3 Edit: I do mean that in a joking playful way, as I already stated my stance is neutral on, Eve and everyone else.

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Ya, what Aoreka said. PharisHanasaki, you need to understand, I know it is good to have someone keeping an eye on the novice network and upholding the ToS of FFXIV on it (I do at times) but the thing is, eve goes to an extreme end, this is why people revenge kick them CONTENTLY, if they happen to be on in the novice network on a given day (I think today they had it off) They will kick someone out with the smallest of reason, and someone will revenge kick eve for it right after. It is a constant thing, it is not once in a month thing, it is DAILY! sometimes more then one time a day.

I have no interest in "witch hunt" Eve, I just want them to stop going to extreme ends on what warrants a kick that leads to being hated by 90% of the people on the novice network. Another issue with how eve kicks is done so LATE, (since it is grey area to begin with) The basic flow is like this. Someone says something very minor, Eve debates with them on what should be said in the novice. Eve losses debate (with outsiders coming in when Eve starts that) and kick the person in question out, out of anger of losing said debate, then in return, gets kicked because it was an invalid reason to kick. This is the very flow on the situation that happened in the TC and the GM is responding on.

And sharing it privately changes nothing since anyone you share this with can do anything with it. But nvm, harrassment CAN be reported, so you can do as you please.

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

And sharing it privately changes nothing since anyone you share this with can do anything with it. But nvm, harrassment CAN be reported, so you can do as you please.

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This does not add on what is being discussed or showing if you really understand the situation to be commenting on it.

1) You do not have the right to not be offended.
2) Public channels should be moderated for offensive content.

Those two statements are at odds with each other and striking a balance is a nightmare scenario for anyone. However. I agree with the stance that the GMs and SE as a company have taken regarding chat- they'll give you tools to block the people who are deeply offending you, so they won't remove people based on the content of their speech unless it crosses over some definite lines (targeted attacks mostly). It's about as free as free speech can get honestly. If you want to make the NN an ERP-free zone then talk it out with your fellow users.

For what it's worth, I'm deeply sympathetic to wanting to keep ERP content out of the NN. But if you're in the minority then unfortunately you'll have to live with the fact that other people have different values and standards than you on the subject.

You are wrong in asumming I'm taking sides. I came here for the reply the GM gave since something similar happened before on my server. That's it. I didn't came here with insulting remarks to anyone because I think their post is unrelated. The sarcasm and mockery was very much uncalled for. It only speaks about the people from that server.

If the GMs judgment when answering this report was clouded by the servers overall opinion on this individual I can see why the answer was given in such fashion. However if GMs and the FFXIv staff do feel that way about public chats and NN allowing all kinds of conversation without restriction, why give us the option to kick. if you have to know, I haven't kicked anyone myself so I can't say, nor other people, that I've abused this.

The kick feature is there more for people who are spamming or are spoiling the story for new players or if they are saying something really extreme.

The problem is the OP has made it their personal mission to take any type of fun out of the chat and will just log in and boot a bunch of people for often invalid reasons and then take it to a GM who have probably dealt with this individual a number of times and they finally decided to give an answer to try and get them stop doing it for minor things.

The only problems in our NN are caused almost exclusively by one person abusing the kick option and the rest of the time its just fun chat and answering any questions that come up.

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Originally Posted by Texa

This game has consistency issues with its GMs that need to be addressed because I've known people who have been banned for plain swearing when we have a filter but then some GMs will overlook targeted harassment (that includes swearing) and publicized sexual content.

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look up the tos, there being a profanity filter doesn't justify swearing. I don't report people, but my g/f at one point last April got a warning on her using a c word after she had anxiety due to being bullied over her tanking.

i personally don't report swearing, but some ppl do, it is against the ToS.


I agree with you on the open erp. WoW moonguard was known for it, no one says anything if you report it gm don't do much of anything.