SB is great, but are there any plans to shake up the endgame formula?

Have you done all the storylines? Maxed all jobs? Bahamut turns? Inspector questline, all of them? Crafting? Gathering? Got all the minions/mounts? Leveled your chocobo companion to all 3 jobs capped? Colored your chocobo? Gardened? (I understand this requires a house so.. maybe not) Raced and bred racing chocobos? Got all the TT cards? Fulfilled all the achievements? PVP'd?

I understand if none of these interest you and all you wanted to begin with was MSQ and your main job. But I will say that if you look past the part where you max your gear and finish the story, there are a LOT more things to do. I've been playing this since the beginning and have never run out of things to do.

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Originally Posted by CartherineZero

Stop talking like leveling other jobs is "content". we're talking about actual content, something you log in and can do to progress your character in some form that give you an edge in harder content.

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every job has a storyline, I'd say that's content. Maybe not min/max content, but content.

Honestly OP, there is no solution. It is impossible for the dev team to create enough content to satiate the kind of player that burns through an entire expansion worth of content in the first couple weeks. Fundamentally, even if they did increase the caps the only change would be that it would take you an additional week to burn through those higher levels/caps/whatever; it wouldn't change anything, just delay how long until someone complains about nothing else to do.

I don't mean to pass judgement on anyone's playing style but this is a player made problem, not a development one. Players can either pace themselves and take longer to reach the endgame and progress through it, or they can speed through it then wonder "what else is there to do?". Personally I like to take my time with things you seem to be more of the get it done fast kind of person, which is fine but we both need to live with the consequences of how we play.


Make an alt, level a different class, help your FC mates, throw a party, do whatever you find fun. Or if you're really bored with it, do as Yoshi suggests and play a different game until 4.1. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the devs put out, some players will speed through it and ask "what else is there to do?"

I on the other hand feel demotivated to grind tomes. I don't even bother hitting the cap anymore.
It feels like by the time I get the current tome gear, fully meld and everything, it lasts for a few weeks before new gear comes and we repeat the process.
I wish we could turn in the old tome gear for new tome gear discount so at least the previous grind would feel like it mattered.

That aside, now I find fun in other aspects of the game - gathering, crafting, furnishing, etc. I'm hardly bored but the tome formula is too demotivating for me and I wish it could change. :(

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Originally Posted by HFTB

So you rushed through all the content, as quickly as you could, and are currently upset that they have not provided new content months before their regularly scheduled content release?

This is one of the few games, until this most recent WoW expansion, that you can rely on a 3-month update schedule. They have kept to this since the release of ARR and have always been consistent. Also, prior to the release of SB, they laid out that new content would be released in even numbered patches (4.2, 4.4 etc.) while the odd numbered patches would be mostly balance updates.

They told ALL of us that there would be a gap in content right now. They planned that gap. There is a reason for that gap. Your preferred play style of rushing as quickly as possible to clear everything is absolutely not what they are designing content around. I'm sorry to say that your problem is on your end alone. SE doesn't need to change a thing.

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so you mean they design content for staying around and not doing that content? i am not rushing at all. i do the content at a fairly normal speed. however, even with reading all the text and doing all the quests and helping other people leveling i finished it all. i can either stay around and not play the game or play the game and stay round after that. the amount of content and the time i need to clear the content stays the same. i needed 4 hours to get all my loot from omega this week. i can either do that at one day and stay around the rest of the week, doing nothing, or spread that 4 hours over the whole week, wich means i play for a few minutes every day and stay around the rest of the time, doing nothing.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Have you done all the storylines? Maxed all jobs? Bahamut turns? Inspector questline, all of them? Crafting? Gathering? Got all the minions/mounts? Leveled your chocobo companion to all 3 jobs capped? Colored your chocobo? Gardened? (I understand this requires a house so.. maybe not) Raced and bred racing chocobos? Got all the TT cards? Fulfilled all the achievements? PVP'd?

I understand if none of these interest you and all you wanted to begin with was MSQ and your main job. But I will say that if you look past the part where you max your gear and finish the story, there are a LOT more things to do. I've been playing this since the beginning and have never run out of things to do.

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i actually did a lot of these things. but i thought we are talking about PVE content here, and nothing else. and PVE is lacking in FF14. it ever was, and it seems always will. we need the relic questline fast. without the relic grind there is not much to do besides weekly capping tomes (wich are not in the game yet) and the raid.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

I miss that Minstrel's Ballad Savage EX trial.

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Oh it's there, you have to spam the ministrel for a about 36 hours and at some point he'll offer you the quest "Raubhan super savage"

This thread is exactly what I've been telling my group of friends who plays this game. Even though it is a new "content" but it is in fact, repetitive contents after every single patch.
Glamour and mounts are the true endgame. We need something like Endless Tower from RO, or zones with open world PK system to spice things up.

I would love having more reason to go into the world once maxed lv. World quests like WoW would be a nice addition.

Unless you're hunting or gathering, you don't have any reason to leave cities at max lv, which I find just sad.

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Originally Posted by Tint

i actually did a lot of these things. but i thought we are talking about PVE content here, and nothing else. and PVE is lacking in FF14. it ever was, and it seems always will. we need the relic questline fast. without the relic grind there is not much to do besides weekly capping tomes (wich are not in the game yet) and the raid.

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I didn't hear the OP specify PVE.. just content. This game has a LOT. But hey, do what interests you and if it doesn't anymore then find another game for a bit. I'm not saying "IF YOU DONT LIKE IT GO AWAY", cause that's not cool, but honestly if you've exhausted the fun part of the game for you, might be time to put it on Hiatus for a bit.

I love when people bring arguments like: But did you do achievement number x? If you see this as content then SE would just need to put in some truly hardcore achievements (next to the hunting one..) and be done with it because most people would need years to complete it..but oh people left the game..why? Didnt they have achievement number x to do?

I took my time to do the MSQ, lots of people were already farming the ex primals and yet I was still in Kugane. But I am done with it and as fighting content I have only the two ex primals left. I dont feel like farming Omega because I dont like the gear but I also dont really feel like farming any gear because they love to introduce a catch up patch quite fast anyway.

Thankfully I still have lots of crafting and gathering left.

I just dont understand why they did not introduce more endgame content in 4.0? Yes more will come along the way but not everyone will wait until patch 4.x to get it.

I did like the new kind of quests but like the MSQ this is all a one time thing..they truly need to create more content that is doable for a longer time with a bit of fun in it. (And it should function..I am still annoyed that I cant do PotD solo right now because the servers love to kick me)

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Originally Posted by TheJarvisMan

While I found the experience up to this point fantastic (like I always do) I've hit an all-too-familiar point with this game. I'm bored to death with the repeated formula for endgame.

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Welcome back to HW: now it's gonna be 6 months before a bigger patch comes out, with most likely more underwhelming content that we still have no idea about. Definitely won't backfire: we only lost what, half of the player base during the content drought between 3.0 and 3.1, what could possibly go wrong?

.....yeah I got a feeling I should've just waited for a patch or two or quit altogether. What you wouldn't do for friends I guess.

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

Honestly OP, there is no solution. It is impossible for the dev team to create enough content to satiate the kind of player that burns through an entire expansion worth of content in the first couple weeks.

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FFXI did it, without a 300 people dev team, a lot of other games do it. Why is everything here on FFXIV impossible to do for the devs? And why is everyone making excuses for their lazy work?

Well we do know they're gonna change some things while cutting 1 dungeon every two patch. Let's just hope it's things people will actually care about, not like verminion.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I did like the new kind of quests but like the MSQ this is all a one time thing..they truly need to create more content that is doable for a longer time with a bit of fun in it. (And it should function..I am still annoyed that I cant do PotD solo right now because the servers love to kick me)

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There was a multi hour long Main quest line and sidequests and a final bossfight that many complained was too challenging. An optional dungeon. Gear sets to complete and minions/mounts to aquire. 2 New jobs to level and experience the story of. 10 levels of every single job already in the game with story to experience for each.
It's been 3 weeks since actual release (I hate you if you actually got anything done in 'early release' I sure didn't)

I don't know what more they could have really done?
Beast tribe quests are coming, relic is coming, Raid is coming.

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

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OP isn't complaining about the lack of content after doing everything in SB. It's about the formula. I also agree with OP. I loved and enjoyed everything in SB so far, and I didn't rush it. So when we're done with everything new, which honestly doesn't take long even if you don't rush it, we're back to the old boring formula of running the same dungeons and weekly lockout raid (and next week the 450 weekly tomes).

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Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

OP isn't complaining about the lack of content after doing everything in SB. It's about the formula. I also agree with OP. I loved and enjoyed everything in SB so far, and I didn't rush it. So when we're done with everything new, which honestly doesn't take long even if you don't rush it, we're back to the old boring formula of running the same dungeons and weekly lockout raid (and next week the 450 weekly tomes).

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What can we have though?
You're thinking a different way to GET character progression? or something entirely new to do? Garrison type quests? FC leveling?
to be totally honest I'd love some more reasons and ways to play with my adventure squadron. maybe another promotion with my GC too.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

What can we have though?

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Well that's easy to answer.

You can either repeat the same old content over and over for tokens or you can repeat the same old content over and over for RNG drops. Either way, it'll boil down to repeating the same content over and over.

That aside, all there is are different ways and degrees of throttling progression. The slower you can make progress, the longer content "lasts". Divide XP gains by 10 and the leveling content will last you 10 times as long. You can have similar effects with gear and brutally low drop rates on bosses with convoluted spawn conditions. Just imagine having a 5% drop chance for your BiS boots on one specific S-Rank hunt mob. That's a classic among drop based systems and you can probably imagine how long that can take to get. Bonus points for only allowing one party to get credit for the mob. You can achieve similar effects with tokens - give every hunt mob its own currency instead of a shared one, then demand up to 10 kills of the same to buy anything with it. Or, just have weekly caps - You can only slay Onyxia once a week. Or, gather 450 tokens. Or whatever.

As such, how long a content remains "relevant" will depend on the rate at which you progress and how many avenues for progression you use - If you level all jobs, leveling content is relevant longer than if you only level one. Again, you can achieve similar effects with gear - dedicated gear for a job, dedicated fire resistance gear, dedicated gear to boost the Mug skill, dedicated gear for the open world, dedicated gear for dungeons... whatever you can think of. But if people aren't using those avenues, they'll naturally have less content.

In the end, if you're tired of running the same stuff over and over, nothing can help you. A single game only ever lasts so long before you get to repetition, whether it be MMO or single-player.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

What can we have though?
You're thinking a different way to GET character progression? or something entirely new to do? Garrison type quests? FC leveling?
to be totally honest I'd love some more reasons and ways to play with my adventure squadron. maybe another promotion with my GC too.

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I would tell you about me wanting gear progression that isn't just fattening up numbers but I know where it leads and I'm tired of it (muh customs are getting meh kicked off raids that i wasn't gonna do!1!!). What I know is that a fresh level cap player on job A, plays almost exactly the same as same level cap player that has been around for a year or two. It's boring. I would like to see some action effects growth, even if the customization is dead and the same player with the same level of game experience is also the exact same. Make it an ilevel milestone and tack on an ARR 2.0/2.1 relic level trials or something.

Example: Fresh lvl 70 dragoon i290 has vanilla dragonfire dive. lvl 70 dragoon with 350 has a dfd with extended range (other 350 drgs also have this effect).

If that's somehow even too much, custom skill animations then. Dragoon A likes niddhog and has his DFD spew dark fire breath and summons his visage in his LB, Dragoon B likes hraesvlgr and has his DFD set to light blue effects and uses hraes on his LB, whm A likes his holy spell in gold, whm B likes his holy purple. Or something.

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Originally Posted by CartherineZero

Stop talking like leveling other jobs is "content". we're talking about actual content, something you log in and can do to progress your character in some form that give you an edge in harder content.

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I'm leveling PLD with leveling roulettes (multiple runs per day) and gathering materia VI by doing so. Materia VI is a form of horizontal and vertical progression you can do on your main and also alts. Another way to obtain it is by doing hunts. That's two things to do that make your character stronger and they aren't 8 mans or tome grinding.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

This is exactly what Yoshida was looking to create. He has said it before: he does not wish to create a game that requires you to log in everyday because he firmly believes you cannot reasonably do this. He wants people to be able to play other games, or socialize without feeling like they are bound to the game. Yoshida believes it makes the game boring. The issue at hand is people play MMOs like they are addicted and constantly need something to feed their addiction.

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If i want to chat with People i can do this without paying 13euros a month....

I agree with the OP aswell. I feel like the content is always coming in the same pattern and we rarely see something new like potd or diadem.
For most of the content there are just background changes like where the setting is and different boss rotations. I dont complain about the amount of content coming or the time in between, that´s really great. But it kinda feels like its mostly the same with different color.

I really miss more open world content like the hunts. Diadem was an attempt but it failed for me alone because it was an instance like any other dungeon and kinda boring because there was nothing spectacular to find there.

Also I think content should not always or simply be designed to give us tokens for endgame stuff. Some content should focus on just being fun playing and something that keeps us playing between the patches. I really have hopes for Eureka to be more exciting in the long term and keep ppl playing the game and have fun doing so.

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Originally Posted by CartherineZero

Hes in for a rude awakening similar to 1.0 when he realizes this kind of content delivery and design is stale and boring and will cause a huge loss in player-base once something better releases.

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Considering the profit FFXIV has brought Square Enix over the last four years-- enough to fund two of their biggest titles, FFXV and FFVII: Remake. I don't think people have got the memo to start unsubbing.

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Originally Posted by CartherineZero

Stop talking like leveling other jobs is "content". we're talking about actual content, something you log in and can do to progress your character in some form that give you an edge in harder content.

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Exactly!! How is leveling all the other jobs content?
You're still just grinding away at the same old boring Palace of the dead, I wish FF had something similar to Mythic + in WoW.
Why get all the ARR relics?
Everything you mentioned just seems like "filler"

This honestly makes me kinda miss WoW, blizzard actually did a great job, you can play casually or you can play as much as you want and you'll always have some way to progress your character.

Well we still get fetch quests and fates are involved for seasonal events, and of course every Primal or what not needs an EX version. I believe SE do not like change overly much, lol

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Considering the profit FFXIV has brought Square Enix over the last four years-- enough to fund two of their biggest titles, FFXV and FFVII: Remake. I don't think people have got the memo to start unsubbing.

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Do you really think that FFXIV alone funded these games? Stop believing FFXIV is some kind of savior for SE.
They pop lazy games, mobile games and remakes left and right to make easy money (FFXIV included), to release more lazy games to make more easy money. Square Enix is only using the name Final Fantasy knowing that, stupid as we are, we will buy everything, they've been releasing terrible games for the past few years, again FFXIV included.
Remove the name and no one would be here, FFXIV would have vanished into the abyss.

The problem is that FFXIV is a MMO with monthly fee and I think that this business model is more a pain in the *** than anything else.
I see more and more F2P games that keep evoluting constantly and often in the best way and well, it's just logic.

Since people is paying a subscription to play, SE can't afford to make drastic changes to their games. And it will never happen because if they do something players really don't like, they will stop their subscription. On the other sides, F2P games have no obligation of that kind. They can make huge changes in their game, they can adjust these changes later, it's not that a big deal. Not at the same level.

I've just seen yesterday what Digital Extremes has in plan for Warframe and it's just crazy. And their game is totally F2P ! It's even not a business modal like TESO where you pay the game and the DLC. It's 100% free and still, they have the money and the gusts to decide "Hey guys ! Let's make our first open world map with huge changes in the gameplay !" And why do they have the money to afford that development costs ? Because their game is great and because their community supports them. A lot of players are willing to pay some platinum here and there, sometimes, often. And it works.

I know a lot of players think that the F2P model is bad and all. And obviously there are some games that do not handle it the right way and simply do not succeed. BUT I don't think it would be a bad thing for FFXIV to change its model and become F2P. There could be an optional subscription like TESO, the game and DLC would be paid like TESO but anyone could play the full game for free. They already implemented a cash shop after all. I think that they would earn more money with that model than right now. AND the game would be totally different. They would dare to change things.

But it will never happen.
And if the name would be removed, FFXIV would vanished in the abyss, then it's just a matter of time before more and more people give up this never ending boring end-game formula.

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Originally Posted by Vanfrano

Do you really think that FFXIV alone funded these games? Stop believing FFXIV is some kind of savior for SE.

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Maybe not entirely, but if it isn't then why they bothered to rework it from scratch and relaunch it? I'm fairly certain they could've kept it as it is since hardcore fans enjoyed it and even defended it to a certain degree (to each their own, but objectively speaking it had issues) and they could've just kept it shut down for all they cared. It's fair to assume that they wanted their money worth and decided to rework for that reason only and for what I remember, they were in bankruptcy at the time.

And for all I know, they did get their money back and now they're just pushing enough content to keep enough people subbed, with the occasional expansion to get even more cash. And people say they did it as an apology...now THAT'S a lie.

Hey I might be wrong, but ARR still felt the most packed when it comes to content despite its shallow launch.

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Originally Posted by Vanfrano

Remove the name and no one would be here, FFXIV would have vanished into the abyss.

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This is maybe going a bit far. FFXIV is not that bad. If it be, many people would play other game as some F2P instead. I return to FFXIV because some other MMO are even worse :p

That being said, I didn't had hype for SB expecting some routine in the pattern and... unfortunatly it is. Levelling is always the same. Colors and apparences changes but we always do basically the same things.

Housing is broken, we miss some kind of random unexpected fun in the open world and dungeons are very very linear.

If F2P were that fantastic they would have a greater success. But they all turn to P2F when not P2W and glamour is most of time just prohibitive.

(Now with my little experience, there are some good ideas to take in FFXIV, RO, BDO, Aion and Wildstar to build a great MMO)

People suggest maybe players who feel like a lack of something should take a break in the game, are too starved and it is their fault to rush. As someone who don't especially rush, there is something missing in the game anyway.

Why always 4/8/24 players teams? Can't they try other formats? 3/5/6/12 for example? People will not unsubscribe for one trial with an other format. SE changes the environment but never the player schema.

Question: What's the big deal? If you no longer have fun playing it move on or wait for the next big patch, that's SE problem not yours as a player. I mention this because after reading some post I would say someone is forcing them to play FFXIV!

Anyway, I love the pacing but also would like a wide range of combat activities.

I don't see people's obsession with potd I was in it like twice and never went back.

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

Honestly OP, there is no solution. It is impossible for the dev team to create enough content to satiate the kind of player that burns through an entire expansion worth of content in the first couple weeks. Fundamentally, even if they did increase the caps the only change would be that it would take you an additional week to burn through those higher levels/caps/whatever; it wouldn't change anything, just delay how long until someone complains about nothing else to do.
"

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This is exactly how I feel how can a game make enough content for a playerbase that will finish it within a few days at this point not sure why people even get high knowing they play to spam rush whatever content that comes out and then come here talking about how its nothing to do.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

This is exactly how I feel how can a game make enough content for a playerbase that will finish it within a few days at this point not sure why people even get high knowing they play to spam rush whatever content that comes out and then come here talking about how its nothing to do.

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By making content that lasts longer than a few days. Deep dungeon was certainly a step in the right direction. something like ffxi's campaign would serve far better in both showing a war underway and facilitating content for many people than the broken system that hunts currently are(where the mob is zerged to the point of their AOEs not working).

Speaking of which, fc and squadron content, when is that coming? because content seems to facilitate fc divisions into cliques of 8, and the crafting workshop is....underdeveloped.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

By making content that lasts longer than a few days.
.

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Potd is nothing more than a dungeon with no roles, its the same concept, the issue is not for op but for many people they want to do one form of content and then complain about it being nothing to do. People just bum rushed the whole msq in three days so they could get to tome farming thats a gamer issue not a dev issue. Yea they could make more content but the fact that many players are done with any content they bring out in a matter of days means that their hands are tied sometimes they have to let those kind of people go. The dedicated players that never unsub and the new players that are always coming in are the ones that matter the most to SE, its just not possible to make enough stuff for the content destroyers they wiill always get bored eventually and unsub.

This is not just a problem for the "content destroyers". The patch doldrums and difficulty to start fights fresh mid patch are a result of this, and occur regularly.

I see a lot of comments in here about people rushing through content, etc. and while I think there are those that have and will always do so, I believe it is not an actual factor here and holds less sway in this case.

Right now, I am going to use my own personal experience as an example but in no way am I claiming that my progression/time spent playing is an indicator of average play time, etc. Feel free to use my endeavors as a barometer however you see fit.

Early release hit on the Friday the 16th of June, I took a day off as most people did and played all day. I had a problem getting through Raubahn and Pippin but by Saturday afternoon I was fortunate enough to slip past them. Sunday was Father's Day, so I did not get to play until the evening for only a few hours.

Over the last several weeks since then, I have gone to work M-F working full time and played for around 3 hours or so each evening before heading to bed. There have been approximately 4 or 5 evenings in there during the week where I was unable to play due to other commitments (spending time with the wife, family or friends, July 4th most of the day cookout celebration as well although I did complete Delta Scape 1-4 in the AM). Two of the three weekends after early release, I have been able to play for about 8 hours substantially on either Saturday or Sunday and fortunately for me this past weekend, I played both days for about 8 hours.

Hopefully you see the pattern where I am not on all day everyday grinding through content. I feel like my playtime probably falls just slightly above average than most folks but not on the extreme side. Again, that is just my guess and I have no actual data to back that up but I believe that I have a fairly healthy active social/family life outside of the game.

In that time, I have completed MSQ, both Ex Primals and farmed everything from them for my main, Omega Normal clearing all 4 turns both weeks in a row, taken Miner to 70 and unlocked several yellow scrip items for it, Fishing to 66-67 and and Botanist to 61-62. Besides finishing my gatherers up and gearing them, I don't feel like I have much left to do on my battle class which makes me feel as though there should be more to do on it. I also have a stock of 30 clusters built up from hunting and have unlocked speed scrolls for all of the HW zones and most of the ARR ones. I feel like one more mode that I can constantly play and work toward some goals for my endgame main shouldn't be too much to ask for. Once you're done with Omega for the week, what else is there really to do on it?

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Originally Posted by Thandronen

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I'm more or less in the same boat. I think at least some of it has to do with how little gear we have of the same ilvl in the game. For example, most likely when Savage comes out we'll have a gear set from Savage that is i340 and a tome set that is upgraded to i340, but no i340 gear from anywhere else. Personally, I like WoW's mythic keystone dungeon system, where they take the base dungeons and scale the damage and hp up progressively, so you start at a "+1" dungeon and go as high as you possibly can. At high levels, it drops gear that is similar in ilvl to raid gear giving some diversity in gear and options to control our substats a little more. Even if it's not exactly the same, I'd like to see some good savage four man content in the game and just generally more options for gear.

Nothing wrong with sticking to what works. Megaman spent 22 years doing the whole 8-bosses, get weapons thing. I still consistently enjoyed them.'

I mean so long as the fights are good I don't really mind how they're released or how the gear on them is distributed. When the new raids come out my thoughts really aren't "Oh boy, springs and bolts again?" It's more "Oh, are these fights gonna be cool?".

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Originally Posted by Vanfrano

Do you really think that FFXIV alone funded these games? Stop believing FFXIV is some kind of savior for SE.
They pop lazy games, mobile games and remakes left and right to make easy money (FFXIV included), to release more lazy games to make more easy money. Square Enix is only using the name Final Fantasy knowing that, stupid as we are, we will buy everything, they've been releasing terrible games for the past few years, again FFXIV included.
Remove the name and no one would be here, FFXIV would have vanished into the abyss.

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While I agree that they went off track and are nowhere near as stellar as they were in the 90s. The FFXIV series post 1.0 have been getting in the upper 80s with SB sitting at 90 right now. As far as what funds what? Who knows?

http://www.metacritic.com/game/plays...xiv-stormblood

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Originally Posted by HFTB

Also, prior to the release of SB, they laid out that new content would be released in even numbered patches (4.2, 4.4 etc.) while the odd numbered patches would be mostly balance updates.

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2 expert dungeons in even numbered patches. 1 expert dungeon and 1 content of surprise in odd numbered patches.
Balance patches would be in both updates. or between them (like the coming 4.05)

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Originally Posted by Jiao

I do believe it was mentioned that on so called "Odd numbered patches" we'll be getting "new content" to do in addition to one more dungeon.

The "new content" is still pretty speculative because to my knowledge we don't know for sure what that'll be. Of course we can assume stuff like the new deep dungeon and Eureka will fall into this category.

Stay tuned, they might just surprise us yet.

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If I were to guess, 4.1 will be housing and Eureka.