Waved or Reduced MP cost for Magic combo's

I'd definitely like to see this as well.

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Originally Posted by Zigirus_Essan

I'd love to get some real numbers, but I think people should seriously think about the damage over time scenario compared physical damage dealers. I think you'll find it's all balanced and proper.

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No no, no... NO! ... It's much easier to bitch about something first rather than think critically and objectively about it. [SIZE="7"]~GAWD~[/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by Reaujien

No no, no... NO! ... It's much easier to bitch about something first rather than think critically and objectively about it. [SIZE="7"]~GAWD~[/SIZE]

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How dare you ruin my rant with logic and facts!

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Originally Posted by Reaujien

No no, no... NO! ... It's much easier to bitch about something first rather than think critically and objectively about it. [SIZE="7"]~GAWD~[/SIZE]

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lmao.

/10char

Support the OP's suggestion.

Although I have an alternative suggestion:-
Add a stance (maybe a blm one) to half the dmg output and half the mana cost on all spells.

This may sound a bit drastic but it will mean that THM can sustain its damage better over an entire boss fight and not run out 2 mins into a fight.

This way THM can use its normal stance for solo content and its mana saving one for boss fights.

I am a bit worried about the longevity of thm in bigger fights in the mean time between now and 1.21. That being said, Holy hell is the class fun to play now.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Support the OP's suggestion.

Although I have an alternative suggestion:-
Add a stance (maybe a blm one) to half the dmg output and half the mana cost on all spells.

This may sound a bit drastic but it will mean that THM can sustain its damage better over an entire boss fight and not run out 2 mins into a fight.

This way THM can use its normal stance for solo content and its mana saving one for boss fights.

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I can get behind this idea. Or something similar along these lines. The only problems I see is if a fight requires insane amounts of moving (ifrit doesn't count, you can stand still for most of hte fight if you know what you are doing) to survive in which you barely get any time at all to stand still for MP regen. And when I say that i mean, moving every 10 seconds or so.

So to have the ability to draw out your MP for less damage would be a great trade off. There would need to be more to it though. If you are going to create a stance there would need to be more drawback too it as well. To prevent the stance from being something that people just leave on all the time. like a +50% damage taken or something. that way it's more of a case of "Watch your hate like a hawk, if you don't you are screwed" instead of "manage your MP and stay still, or you're screwed".

I'm not sure that standing still is an issue, as CNJ I have absolutely no MP worries now and don't even have to worry about standing still.

I think SE have done a great job with THM but they now need to address its mana problems, perhaps they can solve this issue even by adding Refresh materia ?

As for the stance it would be designed to be left on all the time, thats kind of the point, similar to Clerics stance.

The trade off is the reduction in damage.

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Originally Posted by Klive

This really depends one what you end up killing. For example, when they put me against fire and lightening elemental it is going to be a long slow fight, since they resist my two main damage types. However, if something it weak, or even neutral, to fire or lightning I can drop enemies by my second spell.

Edit: The main issue with the mana regen of the THM is that it is passive. CNJ has two abilites that it can watch and use to get mana. The THM has two, but one require you to nuke something and hope you do enough damage to get a return. The other require you two take damage and require 300+ MP just to turn it on. So the THM sits and waits for mana to come back, and when you in passive mode and have no threat the regen is rather good. The problem is I'm standing there... doing nothing to get mana back. I'll still play THM b/c I love the nukes, but I admit standing still in a fight to get mana back is kind disconnecting for a fight.

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sometimes the vastly hated "speculations" arent really speculations at all. you really can gauge how things turn out according to what the ability list says it does.
from day 1 of the first list of class abilities appeared i did nothing but say that THM will be sitting around in parties which also means lol"long" fights will be a THMs largest weak point.
then when the Moogle promo video came out i saw the mages do pretty much nothing while melees were rocking it.

EVERY class/job should be just as VIABLE in one way or another which forces you to contribute just as much in their own way as every other class in group and solo content.

SE has a very twisted view on the MP aspect of their online games.

Managing MP should exist but they take it too far in both FFXI (well pre SCH and Syphon MP updates anyway) and FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I'm not sure that standing still is an issue, as CNJ I have absolutely no MP worries now and don't even have to worry about standing still.

I think SE have done a great job with THM but they now need to address its mana problems, perhaps they can solve this issue even by adding Refresh materia ?

As for the stance it would be designed to be left on all the time, thats kind of the point, similar to Clerics stance.

The trade off is the reduction in damage.

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Unfortuantely I disagree then.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I'm not sure that standing still is an issue, as CNJ I have absolutely no MP worries now and don't even have to worry about standing still.

I think SE have done a great job with THM but they now need to address its mana problems, perhaps they can solve this issue even by adding Refresh materia ?

As for the stance it would be designed to be left on all the time, thats kind of the point, similar to Clerics stance.

The trade off is the reduction in damage.

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theyre shouldnt be a trade off in reduction of damage because they arent damage dealers. it should be assumed and the trade of should have been in some other aspect.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

theyre shouldnt be a trade off in reduction of damage because they arent damage dealers. it should be assumed and the trade of should have been in some other aspect.

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What THM aren't damage dealers, ????

My mention of CNJ was an example that standing still is not needed.

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Originally Posted by Zigirus_Essan

Unfortuantely I disagree then.

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Explain why ?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Explain why ?

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Allow me to explain with some parse data from my Ifrit fights tonight.

First off, some explanations. You cannot combo magic if the magic is resisted, or partially resisted. It has to be a 100% success for it to count as a combo. Also, much like XI, getting to the cap hit rate with magic should be the first goal for most endgame content. Even if spells do less damage overall, you're doing more damage point for point if you go un-resisted as much as possible. Once that cap is reached, then you can push it forward for more damage per spell. So it stands to reason that from a MP efficiency and combo perspective, going unresisted is a good thing.

My THM gear is based around as much magic accuracy as possible while still maintaining as much magic damage that I can hold on to. My Magic attack sits currently at around 455, and my Magic accuracy at 466 with food. There are gear options I'm going to explore to make both sides of this ratio greater. I can't give a spell success rate since my friends parser didn't include that, but even just by eye balling it I could tell I was getting resisted a lot less. (Magic evasion down from our CNJ's Stone helped as well).

In our fight, we stall as long as possible at the start to break a horn so that later on we don't have to deal with a super harsh regen. Since the mages can't break horns, they all assist curing the tank until the melee's can break it. For this reason we didn't start the parser till immediately after the horns were broken and everyone began to do full damage. Most of the results will include 3 people. Myself, and 2 others that were constantly at the top of the damage list. The classes will vary a bit for different test samples aside from mine which is THM the whole night.

During the fights I DID have 1 or 2 periods in which I had to go from almost no MP to Full. (Usually right before Spikes popped and right after). I solo'd my spike within 20-30 seconds every time. My THM damage is always listed as the first. With Player 1 and Player 2 being listed after respectively.

The Results were as follows:


8700, 6500 LNC with Ifrits Harpoon, 5500 ARC with ifrits bow. Parse ended at a swift whipe of our tank.

8000, 5400 LNC with Ifrits Harpoon,5000 ARC ifrits bow. Also ended when our tank fell (really weird eruptions)

13000, 12000 LNC ifrits Harpoon, 11000 LNC no Ifrits harpoon All members had significant periods of dead time which is my beliefe as to why the range is so narrow. Ifrit defeated.

12000THM, 8000 MRD Ifrits Axe, 7500 LNC no ifrits None of the top 3 DPS (me included) had any deaths. Ifrit Defeated. near perfect dodging on my part from eruptions and other damage sources.

14800 THM, 6800 ARC with ifrits bow, 9000 LNC no ifrits harpoon. ARC dc'd mid figh for about 30 seconds. that fight I almost never got resisted and I'm starting to master timing of combo's, when to use certain spells, and closing my windows of "no damage". Only had to rest from empty to full once in the fight. ifrit jumps maintained MP. Ifrit Defeated

13000, 7100 THM Ifrit's Cudgel (Magic attack bonus only build less than 410 Macc but 490+ Magic attack bonus), LNC no ifrit's harpoon 6700. Ifrit defeated. The other THM, to be fair, had just jumped onto it for the first time and was being a little conservative. Later we had a parse that ended up with him only about 3000 behind me but I forgot to copy down the data.

As you can see, THM when played right with the right equipment kinda towers over anything else even with huge MP costs and regen time. From an over time perspective THM isn't weak by any means, nor is it "suffering". I personally feel that this is also in large part due to the fact that Ifrit as a fight lends itself to THM in that, most of everything he does can be avoided with relative ease on the mages part and little movement is required, therefore allowing many windows for getting MP back in position.

But even in a setting not as favorable for THM where MP conservation is key and there are little opportunities to stand and rest for MP, I don't think their Damage would suffer so much that any other DD would replace them. I havn't done the moogle fight yet to get any of my own opinions from it, but I can't imagine you have 0 time to regen your MP.

And don't take my word or parse results for it. Do your own parses or research with LS members in many different situations and see how it works out for you as long as you're looking for a true, un-biased truth about it.

So to finally answer your question Directly Jinko. If you put in a stance for it. I don't see why you wouldn't just want to make THM that way permanently by mechanic. But in my opinion the numerical data proves that it isn't needed in order for THM to be an effective damage dealer.

At most, the only thing people can say to me for arguments sake about it is that "I just don't like standing around waiting for MP as a personal preference" in which case, You are entitled to think that. But in terms of balance, It works as intended and well. (and maybe in Ifrits case, over powered)

TL;DR I personally don't see how Less damage for half MP would be any more Beneficial than it is now. Running out of MP mid fight doesn't detract from THM's ability as a whole and ultimately leaves it up to the player to play it well and skillfully to maximize it's potential.

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Originally Posted by Zigirus_Essan

So to finally answer your question Directly Jinko. If you put in a stance for it. I don't see why you wouldn't just want to make THM that way permanently by mechanic. But in my opinion the numerical data proves that it isn't needed in order for THM to be an effective damage dealer.

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How much of the fight did you spend doing nothing because you ran out of mana ?
The reason for not making THM that way permentaly is being people still like to solo leves and having a decreased dmg output could end up with them taking too much damage before they can effectively kill something.

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At most, the only thing people can say to me for arguments sake about it is that "I just don't like standing around waiting for MP as a personal preference" in which case, You are entitled to think that. But in terms of balance, It works as intended and well. (and maybe in Ifrits case, over powered)

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This is why I suggested the stance, mainly the idea being you are active through the entire fight whilst still maintaining the same damage in theory.

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TL;DR I personally don't see how Less damage for half MP would be any more Beneficial than it is now. Running out of MP mid fight doesn't detract from THM's ability as a whole and ultimately leaves it up to the player to play it well and skillfully to maximize it's potential.

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It's not supposed to be benefical, expect that you are actually doing something throughout the whole fight instead of burning through your whole mana pool in minutes and standing there doing nothing.

You can't give THM more mana and not take away elsewhere otherwise they will become ridiculously overpowered. (which in effect is what Firon is suggesting, sorry Fir :P)

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How much of the fight did you spend doing nothing because you ran out of mana ?

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If you re-read, I said it. "During the fights I DID have 1 or 2 periods in which I had to go from almost no MP to Full. "
This process takes roughly 1 minute tops. so all in all, 2 minutes + whatever time spent evading Eruption.

The rest of what you said I'll respond with this:

I think you misunderstand my point. I don't want THM to change at all. I don't want it's Damage and MP cost lowered equally, I don't want a stance that does it. I don't want MP cost's waived or halved during a combo.

I don't think there will be any fight that will constantly require you to move around 100% of the time without any chance of regaining MP.

You make it sound like once your MP is gone, that's it, game over. You're empty and useless for the rest of the fight.
Admitting that I fully rested twice, while periods of resting in between casting, yeah, I was standing around a bit waiting on MP, but lo and behold, the damage was still significant and in gobs loads more than what anyone else in that fight could put out.

Talking with a friend, the moogle fight isn't even about avoidance as much as it is about endurance and killing moogles in the right order. So as a THM, I don't even have to move if I place myself correctly the whole fight.

Present me a situation in which you are unable for any amount of time able to remain stationary to get MP back, and I'll think about the idea of Halving MP cost and Damage as a stance to be more than just personal play style preference.

I read what you said, no need to get arsey, when 1 or 2 times does not say how long you were inactive during the fight.

For all I know 1 or 2 times could equal 6 mins, (thanks for clearing that up)

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I think you misunderstand my point. I don't want THM to change at all. I don't want it's Damage and MP cost lowered equally, I don't want a stance that does it. I don't want MP cost's waived or halved during a combo.

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Fair enough, so what you doing in this thread if you are happy with the class as it is. .

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Talking with a friend, the moogle fight isn't even about avoidance as much as it is about endurance and killing moogles in the right order. So as a THM, I don't even have to move if I place myself correctly the whole fight.

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When moogle gets big and is coming for you, last thing you wana be doing is standing still.
Also its almost impossible for the tank to keep all the mogs on them at all times, expect to do some sort of kiting unless you are doing single target damage.

Personally I think standing still to generate mana is a silly mechanic, I would rather they have something like a refresh effect which is based off a paticular stat.

Refresh materia may mean you would have to sacrifice some magic accuracy but its all about trade offs in these kinds of games, only time will tell how much accuracy is required to be hit capped.

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I read what you said, no need to get arsey, when 1 or 2 times does not say how long you were inactive during the fight.

For all I know 1 or 2 times could equal 6 mins, (thanks for clearing that up)

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My apolgoies, I wasn't trying to come off as crass or demeaning. Generally it takes a little less than 20 seconds to get 1100 Mp without moving. since my MP pool is close to 3500 I just equate that to about a minute. It could be less since increments build with each tick to a point. Something I'll look into.

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Fair enough, so what you doing in this thread if you are happy with the class as it is.

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I'm just trying to present the facts as they are in the data objectively. Weather it be that THM is over powered,under powered, severly gimp, or on part with everyone else; I just want the truth to come to light as best as possible.

If after that people still feel that THM requires some sort of ease on the MP cost/and or abilities to maintain and recover MP, then that's their opinion. Based on what I know however, I don't think it needs any adjustment what so ever from an actual game balance stand point. Personal play style is subjective to each player.

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When moogle gets big and is coming for you, last thing you wana be doing is standing still.

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I haven't done the fight and i rather not speculate on hearsay, which I regrettably did briefly in my last post in reference to my friend.

I guess for me, there may be content in the future (and possibly now with the moogle fight) in which THM might not be the best class to choose for a given fight. Sad to say, that's what happens in any MMO with various classes with different roles and niches. Ultimately, some content will be harder for one class over another.

But on that same token I don't see THM being so screwed over in a situation that you would want to refuse it outright. it might not be optimal, but if you are ever able to stop and recover MP for atleast 20 seconds at a time, THm can still dish out a ton of damage. But things like that generally fall onto the community and its issues anyway with classism and "one size cookie cutter fits all" mentality.

True enough, FWIW we tried a THM burn strategy on the moogle and it failed pretty horribly, we managed to kill the GLD moogle super fast though which was kind of funny as the two CNJ were nuking him aswell.

Sadly the THM ran out of mana and that was the end of that, tanks couldn't keep hate either, which is another point, its all well and good to put out huge burst damage but if this is making the tanks job a nightmare whats the point.

You could say manage your enmity but isn't this basically the same as reducing your dmg output ? reducing your damage = managing your mana, its all the same thing IMO.

You could then argue well its handy to have burst damage but thats where a stance comes in handy as you can switch back and forth as you need it.

Im surprised THM didn't get a similar ability as CNJ to sacrfice HP for MP. (they do get convert as BLM I guess, so there is that to keep in mind, so your probably right looking at the bigger picture this whole discussion is maybe a moot topic)

I'm not asking to spam spells What i want is a way to keep mana up so when fights become more dynamic I'm not running not gaining mp.

Take the Ifrit fight for example if that one attack was not based on where Ifrit was standing that fight would be hell for thm once they run out of mp they are just stuck dodging attacks. This theory applies to the moogle fight once i run out of mp just standing in one spot could make me loose 700 mp i was trying to gain back or possibly die from aoe. I would love to have that move CNJ has to sacrifice hp for mp, that move should have been DoM only.

I personally think using the ifrit fight where mages hardly have to move is not a good example to keep mp up cause when i did it as thm pre patch my mp never dropped under 1k from healing the tank.

Also like i said look @ the mp cost for the idea i presented most of the cost are hardly that lower than the normal full combo. 1133 for thunder combo with my idea the mp cost is 800+ mp

/signed
/10

I don't even play THM but considering how fast I burn MP as CNJ it must be a pain to play THM. At least CNJ has Shroud of Saints for MP regen and Blissful Mind for pooling it. Because of that, CNJ can maintain MP really well (you do burn out eventually, but smart use of combos, Blissful Mind and Shroud can keep you going a long time).

I'm honestly surprised that Blissful Mind is a CNJ skill since it sacrifices HP. I would've thought that was more appropriate for THM personally. Something needs doing to help THM out; either bigger MP pool, MP reductions for combos or just giving THM an easier way to build MP without standing around for a while.

Honestly, just giving THM access to Blissful Mind would help a lot.

...Did a Darkhold Run as Cjn... never lost alot of MP.

Then again... cure is 110 Mp, Cura is 220 or something, and Curaga 410?

And Our first spells are 210+ Mp, Ra's are 410+, and Ga's are 410-712.

I want Blissful Mind and Shroud of Saints on Thm, now please.

I think the ones complainting about MP high cost, don't remember/didn't play, FFXI. In FFXI, BLMs usually had to not stand, but SIT, to regain MP properly in end-game battles. Sure, there was a BRD and RDM casting refresh on them, plus Vermilion Cloak or other gear, but BLM had to manage MP, nuking > sitting for a couple of mins > nuke...

Maybe we were all to used to having 30 MP spells... I say lets wait for 1.21 and learn the class the way it is now, we still can deal great damage.

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Originally Posted by Tyro

I think the ones complainting about MP high cost, don't remember/didn't play, FFXI. In FFXI, BLMs usually had to not stand, but SIT, to regain MP properly in end-game battles. Sure, there was a BRD and RDM casting refresh on them, plus Vermilion Cloak or other gear, but BLM had to manage MP, nuking > sitting for a couple of mins > nuke...

Maybe we were all to used to having 30 MP spells... I say lets wait for 1.21 and learn the class the way it is now, we still can deal great damage.

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I did not play black-mage in FFXI, it was too slow. Not even in a good way. You think the slower the more powerful, not true when it came to melee damage. Though AoE damage yeah, black-mage was way better at group kills, but like most people say, that was Abyssea.

Haven't tried THM so far but CNJ has moooore than enough ways to keep its MP up. In that regard, CNJ doesn't really need reduced MP costs as far as it concerns me. :D

SE sanguine rite, is just useless. You Guys gotta fix it. Instead spending 300mp to activate it, and regen of 15mp per hit, what about do the opposite? Thm got fucked. No one wants and needs to play this class after 1.20. Taking area dmg toggle wasn't smart either.

Yep. I geared up my THM all the way for this patch. Now I understand that I won't actually get to use it til Jobs come out in 1.21. Don't think ill be paying til then.

With time sensitive battles you can't have even one member of the team just standing still in the corner for a minute or two.

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Originally Posted by Noir

SE sanguine rite, is just useless. You Guys gotta fix it. Instead spending 300mp to activate it, and regen of 15mp per hit, what about do the opposite? Thm got fucked. No one wants and needs to play this class after 1.20. Taking area dmg toggle wasn't smart either.

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is that how it works?

in a party THM wouldnt really be taking any damage so yeah i can see that as useless.
so is it really useless while soloing leves?

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Originally Posted by Zigirus_Essan

Allow me to explain with some parse data from my Ifrit fights tonight.

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What gear/food you use atm?

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Originally Posted by Tyro

I think the ones complainting about MP high cost, don't remember/didn't play, FFXI. In FFXI, BLMs usually had to not stand, but SIT, to regain MP properly in end-game battles. Sure, there was a BRD and RDM casting refresh on them, plus Vermilion Cloak or other gear, but BLM had to manage MP, nuking > sitting for a couple of mins > nuke...

Maybe we were all to used to having 30 MP spells... I say lets wait for 1.21 and learn the class the way it is now, we still can deal great damage.

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Ginger cookies/yagudo drinks/ethers. Hell, Dark elemental staff gave +10 MP/tick when resting. You were only sat down for like 10 seconds to go back to full.

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Originally Posted by Noir

SE sanguine rite, is just useless. You Guys gotta fix it. Instead spending 300mp to activate it, and regen of 15mp per hit, what about do the opposite? Thm got fucked. No one wants and needs to play this class after 1.20. Taking area dmg toggle wasn't smart either.

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I actually find it to be a life saver and one of the better "useless" spells on my action bar. Granted a mage should not be tanking, but this ability alone has saved my butt and allowed me to tank Moggle preq NMs and Ifrit with cure bombs alone. Against anything your level it is minimal, but like I said getting 300+ MP regen a hit on Ifrit allowed me to tank from open to Hellfire as both CNJ and THM in a broken pickup party. Even in large SH pulls that go wrong I Curaga, pop Sent, Rampage, etc, Cure tank, hit San Rite and boom back to full MP.

Stop wasting your MP on Thundaga and maybe you'll find out that THM doesn't run out as quickly as you think.

If THM got an MP reduction for combos, they would be even more dangerous. As long as you can learn to not run around like a headless chicken, use Resonance when casting when things are out of range or to change position to avoid AoE, you'll be fine.

THM is great for NMs and things that just need to die, and much like BLM, less useful for general mobs.

Again, stop wasting your MP on Thundaga.

the only time I touch thundaga is with parsimony and dark seal up.

Kind of funny to use necrogenisis with it and watch my hp go from almost zero to almost full.

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Originally Posted by Elcura

Stop wasting your MP on Thundaga and maybe you'll find out that THM doesn't run out as quickly as you think.

If THM got an MP reduction for combos, they would be even more dangerous. As long as you can learn to not run around like a headless chicken, use Resonance when casting when things are out of range or to change position to avoid AoE, you'll be fine.

THM is great for NMs and things that just need to die, and much like BLM, less useful for general mobs.

Again, stop wasting your MP on Thundaga.

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lol this is asinine though.
you should not have to not use your spells because they stop you from performing your job. Thundaga should stop being so damned expensive.
i dont feel any job should have to give up its abilities in order to stay active and i dont believe any class should ever be inactive during any fight.
THM right now is either "super nuke and hate having to wait around or nuke for CNJ type damage and be more active" which in that case you might as well just be a CNJ.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

lol this is asinine though.

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It isn't.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

you should not have to not use your spells because they stop you from performing your job. Thundaga should stop being so damned expensive.

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Because spells, like abilities or WS, have a time and a place to be used. If you can't figure that out, then of course you'll be running out of MP.

Thundaga is only useful when you can force the crit from Excruciate. And then, with Parsimony and Dark Seal it becomes worthwhile. Any other circumstance it's a waste of MP compared to Thundara. If you use Parsimony correctly with this method, Thundaga becomes essentially free (with MP gain if you can do good damage).

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

i dont feel any job should have to give up its abilities in order to stay active and i dont believe any class should ever be inactive during any fight.

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THM isn't inactive. I cast consistently and when I'm not using Thunder spells I'm using Blizzard or Stone for the enfeebling effects or Cure/Stoneskin when my hate is through the roof.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

THM right now is either "super nuke and hate having to wait around or nuke for CNJ type damage and be more active" which in that case you might as well just be a CNJ.

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I out damage CNJs all day. Even if they focus on nuking and not healing. But what good is a CNJ that doesn't heal?

People think "Hey I have a spell, LETS USE IT WITHOUT ANY THOUGHT!" and wonder why they have no MP.

Your abilities are crucial, and your timing is important.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

is that how it works?

in a party THM wouldnt really be taking any damage so yeah i can see that as useless.
so is it really useless while soloing leves?

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With 13 secs of skill? Yes useless

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Originally Posted by Elcura

Stop wasting your MP on Thundaga and maybe you'll find out that THM doesn't run out as quickly as you think.

If THM got an MP reduction for combos, they would be even more dangerous. As long as you can learn to not run around like a headless chicken, use Resonance when casting when things are out of range or to change position to avoid AoE, you'll be fine.

THM is great for NMs and things that just need to die, and much like BLM, less useful for general mobs.

Again, stop wasting your MP on Thundaga.

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Try killing mobs that have resistance to Ice and fire without thunder. They made that you get. 80% less dmg if the enemy is of the same elemental. Plus, when you have to defend some npc and he is in the middle of many level mobs plus the leve mobs, and the enemy only takes fire as dmg, you know what I'm getting into right? Probably nuking the whole area because you can't toggle the stupid spells area anymore. If you have two mobs attacking the npc, you have to decide. Either you kill one and let the other kill the npc or you nuke the whole area and pray you kill the leve mobs and run like chicken from area mobs because you have 0mp

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Originally Posted by Noir

because you have 0mp

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Doing it wrong. If you have 0 MP, you're doing it wrong. How about you use an AoE spell, use featherfoot or Sanguine Rite and continue going to town? Use Blizzara to get the bind effect and run away? If that doesn't work, use Blizzard for gravity? Use Sentinel and Rampart to take less damage? Cast Stoneskin so you don't get interrupted?

You have options that don't just include FIRE ALL MY MP AT IT! Like I said, think about what you're doing for like 2 seconds and maybe you'll find a better answer. Think about what you're doing and maybe you won't find yourself with 0 MP all the time.

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Originally Posted by Elcura

Because spells, like abilities or WS, have a time and a place to be used. If you can't figure that out, then of course you'll be running out of MP.

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I parsed at 8000-9000 on Ifrit fights as THM, where our Archers and Lancers were doing 5-7k per fight. We are all well-equipped.

Of course, it depends a lot on where the Eruptions are happening, but the THMs were consistently higher in all cases, as long as we had CONs on dedicated healing duties.

I think THM is working as intended, while BLM will alleviate some of the MP concerns with Convert. More MP wouldn't help me on Ifrit, I would just die from hate. However, more MP would go a long way on Moogle... I'm waiting on some parse tests to see if I'm keeping up my damage as much as the archers.

I think a shorter cooldown on Parsimony would be ideal though, knock off 20-30 s.

THM job at Moogle is usually to burn down GLA and MRD moogle fast, because they have higher physical defense. Not everything have to be about winning parser.

Also at last phase, aoe bind become extremely useful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

THM job at Moogle is usually to burn down GLA and MRD moogle fast, because they have higher physical defense. Not everything have to be about winning parser.

Also at last phase, aoe bind become extremely useful.

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I'm the last to care about parse results, but they do give a general idea of how much your contributing (if pure damage = contributing). I agree that the bind and heavy effects from the Blizzard line are very valuable in the last phase of the Moogle fight, regardless of the damage output.