How would you handle this situation with mean spirited mentors?

A mentor stole my lunch money. By a MENTOR!!

But seriously though it's very tragic that bad people turned a good system with much potential into a grade A meme.

#can'thavenicethings

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Originally Posted by whiteblade89

I'm with AlphaFox up there. There shouldn't be incentive like a unique mount to be a mentor because true mentors need no incentive to be helpful.

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I agree to some extent. I'm in the camp of being totally fine with mentors getting at least some reward for going through the hoops and ladders and being willing to go the extra mile and help. The issue is there's no upkeep system in place so its nearly impossible to tell which mentor is there to actually /be/ a mentor or the ones who were just there for the shiny and crown. I'd like to see a system like...I forget which game uses it, I wanna say ESO but I'm not certain. Basically when a mentor is partnered with a new person, at the end of what ever they were doing, said new person gets a pop up window from the game asking them if the mentor was helpful or not. That mentor would need to maintain if i remember right, five or more positive reviews each week. Not doing so would mean the mentor would be stripped of their title and lose all rewards associated with it.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

Basically when a mentor is partnered with a new person, at the end of what ever they were doing, said new person gets a pop up window from the game asking them if the mentor was helpful or not. That mentor would need to maintain if i remember right, five or more positive reviews each week. Not doing so would mean the mentor would be stripped of their title and lose all rewards associated with it.

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Yes! So much this.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

Basically when a mentor is partnered with a new person, at the end of what ever they were doing, said new person gets a pop up window from the game asking them if the mentor was helpful or not. That mentor would need to maintain if i remember right, five or more positive reviews each week. Not doing so would mean the mentor would be stripped of their title and lose all rewards associated with it.

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Bad idea for this game.

95% of the time I try to help other players as a mentor, nicely and politely, doesn't matter, I get harassed or yelled at with every thing you can think of from "elitist" to tons of nasty swear words that I don't care to repeat.

It's very rare for anyone to actually accept and be happy for the help. I can count how many times on one hand the times people have responded happy for the help.

So guess what 95% of the players are going to do? Troll the mentor by giving them bad reviews and getting their mentor status and rewards revoked.

Example:
Mentor: DRK, can you please use unleash a few more times, the BLM is taking hate when AoEing.

DRK may or may not answer but basically 95% of players on this game? He's thinking "pfft mentor trying to tell me how to play? you don't pay my sub I play how I want elitist"

End of dungeon? They are going to vote you down and out of being a mentor because they are peeved off you even offered help for them to play their job better.

Btw the DRK thing actually happened recently. I wasn't mentoring at the time but I asked them nicely to use a few more unleash because I was ripping hate when I AoE Fire II and Flare ect in a level 60 dungeon and they told me "shutup child". We ended up vote kicking him a bit after that.

95% of players get defensive as all heck if you say anything about how they play. Even if it was just asking for help since I was almost dying pulling hate because the DRK was only using Unleash once per pull and obviously wasn't cycling targets properly. I felt bad for the healer because she kept having to save me whenever quelling was on cooldown.


As for OP. I would have just kicked them as well. I mean the mentor crown yeah it sucks they were wearing it, but they would have been jerks even if mentor didn't exist. So I just vote kick rude people like that and move on because even if Mentor didn't exist you are still going to run into players like that.

also just in general, but mostly I've seen this done by those queued in by mentor roulette, they want the run rushed such as main story runs and then when new people get lost or confused on how to go about the dungeon then they yell at them. had this happen in many of my runs lately, people just want a 5-10 minute run and say "well i wouldn't have queued had i knew it was going to be with newbies and slow" is how most people are lately when it comes to things, very saddening to see, even when you try to explain basic mechanics of whatever instance :(

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Originally Posted by Miste

Bad idea for this game.95% of the time I try to help other players as a mentor, nicely and politely, doesn't matter, I get harassed or yelled at with every thing you can think of from "elitist" to tons of nasty swear words that I don't care to repeat.

It's very rare for anyone to actually accept and be happy for the help. I can count how many times on one hand the times people have responded happy for the help.

So guess what 95% of the players are going to do? Troll the mentor by giving them bad reviews and getting their mentor status and rewards revoked.

Example:
Mentor: DRK, can you please use unleash a few more times, the BLM is taking hate when AoEing.

DRK may or may not answer but basically 95% of players on this game? He's thinking "pfft mentor trying to tell me how to play? you don't pay my sub I play how I want elitist"

End of dungeon? They are going to vote you down and out of being a mentor because they are peeved off you even offered help for them to play their job better.

Btw the DRK thing actually happened recently. I wasn't mentoring at the time but I asked them nicely to use a few more unleash because I was ripping hate when I AoE Fire II and Flare ect in a level 60 dungeon and they told me "shutup child". We ended up vote kicking him a bit after that.

95% of players get defensive as all heck if you say anything about how they play. Even if it was just asking for help since I was almost dying pulling hate because the DRK was only using Unleash once per pull and obviously wasn't cycling targets properly. I felt bad for the healer because she kept having to save me whenever quelling was on cooldown.


As for OP. I would have just kicked them as well. I mean the mentor crown yeah it sucks they were wearing it, but they would have been jerks even if mentor didn't exist. So I just vote kick rude people like that and move on because even if Mentor didn't exist you are still going to run into players like that.

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Agreed, also how would you do that in open world (helping people outside DF)?

When a player is showing bad attitude, warn them. Tell them to relax there is no need to behave like this.
We were all new once to the game. If they wont stop, simply kick them from duty.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Btw the DRK thing actually happened recently. I wasn't mentoring at the time but I asked them nicely to use a few more unleash because I was ripping hate when I AoE Fire II and Flare ect in a level 60 dungeon and they told me "shutup child". We ended up vote kicking him a bit after that.

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Yeah, same with me telling a BLM. Hey m8, I used to main BLM and using blizzard. when your mpis full does no good, so using fire would be better. ''I dont care, let me play the way I want''. However, I told another BLM to use fire 3 after blizzard to get the 3 stacks asap instead of using fire 1 right after blizzard 3. They noticed the difference in terms of casting faster and also more dps, the feedback I got from that person was nice and I was surprised. People, very many people talk about how great the community is, I do agree some of it is nice, but the way people preach it, just no. It's because of those type of players, basically.

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Originally Posted by Miste

95% of the time I try to help other players as a mentor, nicely and politely, doesn't matter, I get harassed or yelled at with every thing you can think of from "elitist" to tons of nasty swear words that I don't care to repeat.

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Yeah, I've been there plenty of times as well to know what its like. Ideally for this world the mentor system really should have never been a thing in the first place if you ask me. In an ideal world with a mentor system, an upkeep system works well (at least I never personally heard any complaints from players from the game I mentioned before once I read about it anyway...) So the problem goes full circle, to fix the issues means fixing the community. Something no system can accomplish, the community has to want to fix itself. Until that time comes all that can be done is take seeing the mentor crown with a grain of salt and not assume they're there to help. Just as the players that get hostile over someone giving advice along with the "mentors" that get hostile twords new players. All that can be done is kick and forget.

Iv a 3rd character , a lalafell pld. I was marked as new because its a new character. I get in a duty . Guess what ? The sec the mentor healer saw i was a "new" he automaticly leaved the party. Wtf ? Wtf this mentor ? He not deserve his crown. He dishonored this title...

As a Mentor I found more useful to just not speak or teach anything, until somebody does something wrong or somebody asks me.

Some people doesn't like to be teached, so the best way is to be passive.


And about the bad mentors, report. Always report.

I honestly can count the amount of decent mentors I have encountered on one hand.

Personally, I think a change of icon would help already to weed out some of the bad crowed that only want to show off their shiny crown. Make the icon a tree. New players a sprouts, returnees are flowers and mentors are trees - it follows a topic too with mentors being deep rooted players! I guarantee you not many players would want prance around a tree but a lot of people want a "jerk crown".

In all honestly, I cringe when I see a crown in a duty because in 99% of all cases, the player will cause only problems. Only recently a mentor rained insulted my friend when she was trying to help the sprout in the party. Supposedly they were on voice and he was explaining what to do. Possible but if that was the case they did an as shitty job outside of the game as they did in-game. I wish she had reported them.

I actually like the system mentioned here regarding a pop-up after a duty. Yes, it can be abused, as everything can, but it would definitely weed out a lot of bads from the pool or would encourage people to at least TRY to be helpful. I have been avoiding DF at all costs not because of new players (though recent influx of those isn't very promising either) but mostly because of jerk crown players.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

As a Mentor I found more useful to just not speak or teach anything, until somebody does something wrong or somebody asks me.

Some people doesn't like to be teached, so the best way is to be passive.


And about the bad mentors, report. Always report.

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This is what I do as well. Some parties can handle themselves just fine. It is after I notice something really bad that I will comment on it. Like a tank wearing DEX gear for example.

When I end up in some Extreme fight. I generally ask "Wanna go over starts?" This is better than asking "Everyone know what to do?" because people might hold back in fear and don't want to be ashamed.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Bad idea for this game.

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This is patently ridiculous paranoia. 95% my ass - if it really seems this way to you, than either you're not NEARLY as polite about the "help" you provide as you claim to be in this post, or, more likely, you're allowing the few bad experiences you've had to overtake the mostly normal or even positives ones. This kind of perception bias is VERY common, especially on the forums. Even in the worst cases, the idea of them actually filing a report against you in retaliation is laughable.

As a mentor, I help folks out regularly, and at the worst the folks who I try to help will let me know that, "Yeah, I know, I was just being sloppy, sorry about that." Got almost exactly this verbatim yesterday when I advised the players in my group to turn away for Neuro Squama in Lost City of Amdapor (Hard).

Also, of course, if you're really that concerned there's always the option of offering to give advice, before giving advice. When I'm not sure how well my advice will be received, I first ask, "Do you mind if I give you some advice about your class?"

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Originally Posted by Chessala

In all honestly, I cringe when I see a crown in a duty because in 99% of all cases, the player will cause only problems.

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This is equally ridiculous. Even the mentors who are just in it for the crown/mount are most likely going to just participate in the run like anyone else. Like other players, they want the run to succeed, because it gives them the rewards their after, so there's no reason for them to be any more hostile than they would be without the crown. So, yeah, I believe that examples like you listed DO happen - and they happen just as often in parties that have no mentors. There's nothing inherent to being a Mentor that attracts assholes - and if you're seeing nothing but asshole mentors, again that's perception bias at work. The bad sticks in your memory far more than the good, leading to ridiculous "statistics" like the ones provided by you and by Miste in her post.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

This is patently ridiculous paranoia.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

95% my ass

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

you're not NEARLY as polite about the "help" you provide as you claim to be

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It's fine if you don't agree with my opinion.

You see...I just posted my opinion and I posted it pretty neutrally about my experiences....and already you have jumped on me in a hostile response calling me paranoid, making fun of my experience percentage, and claiming I am a liar and actually not polite when I try to assist my fellow players.

I think you just proved my problem. That is interesting...

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

the idea of them actually filing a report against you in retaliation is laughable.

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Hostility again :/

Btw...I never said that anyone has filed or will file a report on me, but if you read the concept of the idea the person I actually replied to on my first post their idea was to have a pop up window at the end of the duty for the non-mentor players asking if the mentor was helpful. Did you read that? Because that is what I was talking about...not filing reports through help desk...

If they click No the mentor can potentially lose mentor status and lose all rewards. You are saying this won't be abused? It will be, and SE will be forced to hire a whole new group of employees to staff a task force specifically to look over the mentor system to give back mentors their lost status and rewards when people say No just to troll, or for no valid reason, or heck even misclicking No by accident.

So yeah, my opinion is still that it is a bad idea, sorry if you don't agree.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

As a Mentor I found more useful to just not speak or teach anything, until somebody does something wrong or somebody asks me.

Some people doesn't like to be teached, so the best way is to be passive.

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Same. I don't even wear the burger king crown for this reason, but of course if you queue for mentor roulette it will appear on your name regardless.

I got some in-prog A7N party the other day when they were taking almost 10 minutes to explain the fight after a single wipe, and I'm like can we pull soon? I can call things as they happen, and still maintain high DPS. Some derps here and there of course, but nothing that wasn't solvable explaining during the fight.

Sometimes I call mechanics in my raid groups, so going on-the-fly or typing during fights isn't an issue to guide or correct something. I find this works better. There are too many people in this game that bite your hand for just giving any sort of advice.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

This is patently ridiculous paranoia. 95% my ass - if it really seems this way to you, than either you're not NEARLY as polite about the "help" you provide as you claim to be in this post, o

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LAMO! you really pulled that card on Miste/Miste Vaer??? She is one of the FEW, FEW frequent posters here that I have yet seen any kind of hint of toxicity in a post when replying to people. I seen dozens of people post something provoking/rude/ toxic / attacking people like when I tried get someone back off in the jump potion thread, and the people all respond with "i did not do anything wrong" (or for me personally bringing up drama with me in threads from past threads where it does not belong) Miste is one of the most civil people on this form and if she says she runs into many toxic new players that attack her for giving advice, despite best efforts being polite, I will trust her word, because how she shown how to act on these forums. Also you did not reply my concern on top of that, what about open world stuff? crafting advice? etc? People troll the DF queue, why we have the withdraw penalty. People enter DF and leave because some tank did not like the roulette selection so we got penalty. People also troll the DF itself, making premades and trying to force it to fail and abuse kicking outsiders. You really think people will not abuse a system like that? It would just be a system to harass mentors. Also it is not "paranoia" when she said it actually happened.

idk about 95% being literal and I really do not care. It is basically telling me a large amount do that, and I got the same, so has my friends. Heck today I kept telling this new person to help with lamps on final boss in haukke manor and not a word said. Now that I think of it, wonder if it was a complex bot.

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Originally Posted by Miste

I think you just proved my problem. That is interesting...

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I was trying to post before you, limits and all, fitting you give a civil reply to only prove my point further, despite that person asking for other kinds of a response.
penalty
For the post below me(because of post limits) I do not believe that, at least online. If a game company has to make so many changes from bad acting players (DF kick, Queue penalty due to queue trolling, DF leaving penalty, and the latest feast chat removal, then it will be abused more then helpful. The game we have right now is proof of it. This very thread, why it was made and that exists, is very proof "Did this mentor help you" will be abused. I seen people in premades failing runs on purpose too.
https://youtu.be/efHCdKb5UWc?t=55

I feel that since humans are inherently good. A survey system will be of good use to keep mentor status. Yes it may occasionally be abused, but if the mentors can keep a high average of let's say for instance 7/10 stars they can keep mentor status.

If You're generally a good mentor outlier data will be insignificant in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Hitsuzen

I feel that since humans are inherently good. A survey system will be of good use to keep mentor status. Yes it may occasionally be abused, but if the mentors can keep a high average of let's say for instance 7/10 stars they can keep mentor status.

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Or you can just continue to report people like the ones you encountered and let a GM sort it out rather than an easily abused system.

I've seen karma systems work in MUDs, but with an MMO you'd really need someone in charge of actually reviewing the players with negative feedback to make sure the system is being used correctly. Most people are just going to click whatever to get the popup out of the way and get on with the game. Or if it just gives a notification thing like commendations, people are more likely to ignore it unless they had a bad experience. Would ignoring count toward the positive number? Also, everyone has different ideas of what makes a positive/negative experience. For example, some people believe you're a bad mentor if you don't provide unsolicited advice before each boss when there's a new player bonus (I personally wait to be asked b/c a lot of people are just alts, but I'll give advice if I see someone struggling with a mechanic).

I don't see a point in spending money on this over a few jerks. To this day I have still only run into a tiny percentage of abusive players wearing a crown. If people posted every positive experience on these forums, you probably wouldn't even notice the negative ones anymore. People are more likely to come and complain than come praise random strangers they met on the internet. I know I don't often bother leaving reviews on products I've purchased on Amazon/Newegg/etc. unless I have a bad experience.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

This is patently ridiculous paranoia. 95% my ass - if it really seems this way to you, than either you're not NEARLY as polite about the "help" you provide as you claim to be in this post, or, more likely, you're allowing the few bad experiences you've had to overtake the mostly normal or even positives ones..

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Oh I'm pretty sure this isn't paranoia. Happens to me a lot actually too. People rather just be in their own world and ignore others, this has always been a thing in FF14.
And Miste are one of those people who NEVER, insults people or drag people down in a argument or when they discuss. You can see it in every post she/he makes. It feel like she hit a spot on you and you just want to hide it honestly.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Paranoia

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Dude

I'm not even a mentor and I get my hand bitten off more often if I try to explain or give advice then if I don't.

Maybe Miste's exaggerating the statistics. But its from her POV. Personally, I'd say 60% of the time. Its not the universal statistic for every player but for me, that's how it is. When I don't get my throat bitten off, my advice is just soundly ignored.

That's why I don't blame mentors for being silent until things go wrong cuz for the ones that actually do try, more often than not, there's always gonna be that one "its my sub" kind of player in the party.

I don't get backlash for advice, mostly because I frame it in a way to make it not seem mandatory.

For example "So and so, just a tip: turning the mobs around while tanking will reduce the damage the party suffers in the "cleave."

They either respond well or they don't respond at all, but I never get a negative response. This is because I am stating a fact not demanding they change or telling them they are wrong or bad. In fact I don't even care if they take mt advice; it's their sub they don't have to take my advice. If they don't they'll never progress past duty finder and will be kicked by other not so patient people in extreme primals though. I will always try to be helpful though if I see a sprout icon or "new player to duty"

I play my tank very well and use my CDs very intelligently, but I could still be considered "bad" for not wasting my gil buying and overmelding materia. If someone gave me "advice" to meld materia to my gear. I'd tell them okay sure level my ARM to 60 for me and buy my materia kthx jk I know I know, but I am not doing savage raids and stormblood is around the corner seems a waste.

I rarely offer advice to people. If I see a new person bonus I'll wait until they prove they don't know the mechanics or ask before I'll say anything.

On the rare occasion that I actually have my mentor tag on I'll say "Hi, if you need any help or advice please don't hesitate to ask." Since I'm often a tank I'll also do a ready check before bosses if I saw a new person bonus at the beginning. I've found it lets people know I'm open and people don't feel like I'm being pushy or interfering with their play style.

I apologize for blowing up - I just get so damn sick of folks assuming the worst of others. Perhaps I'm a starry-eyed optimist, but I firmly believe that the majority of players are NOT so wrapped up in their pride that they'd deliberately sabotage someone for trying to help. I'm willing to admit that I, too, may be a victim of perception bias, though in my case I tend to downplay the negative experiences I've had, rather than dwell on them. Personally, I think that's the preferred form of perception bias for any individual in a position where they're expected to guide and help others, whether it be in this game or in real life. Recognize that the bad apples may be frustrating, but as long as you can reach a few receptive individuals, it makes up for all the crap, and then some.

I don't know Miste, and she could be the kindest, sweetest person imaginable - but it does not matter. Her post was one typical of those that I've heard, enforcing the idea that mentors shouldn't even TRY to mentor, because they'll just get shut down and harassed. EVEN IF IT WAS TRUE, it is harmful, and serves to frighten newer mentors who might otherwise try to help others. It implies that it's just not worth trying, that the mentor system has failed, that you might as well switch off the crown and pretend you never had it. This is not a viable, acceptable, or desirable solution.

As for the idea of "click to report this mentor as horrible" button at the end of a run, I'm also optimistic enough to believe that if the devs were to implement this, it would NOT be a one-click lose-mentor-status button. They do know that trolls exist and even without trolls some folks make rash decisions for stupid reasons.

I think lols report situation is similar they take a tally of reports and why if you have a high number they read logs. Obviously if the mentor went out of line direct report to gm

[QUOTE=LineageRazor;4136024I don't know Miste, and she could be the kindest, sweetest person imaginable - but it does not matter. Her post was one typical of those that I've heard, enforcing the idea that mentors shouldn't even TRY to mentor, because they'll just get shut down and harassed..[/QUOTE]
I've had people who seen my crown and ask for my help, which is great. I've tried to help people who are new without being asked and I've been shut down. Sometimes I'm aware they might not know my language, doesn't have a keyboard for the ps4 for example,. which I find weird as communication is really needed in a MMORPG. Anyways, people been shutdown with or without crown and it happens a lot. I mean some people can maybe come off as ''rude'' saying things like ''why don't you use darkside with grit'' and their response is ''shut up and just keep doing your own thing'' This happens a lot and many threads in this forum shows it with even screenshots.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I apologize for blowing up - I just get so damn sick of folks assuming the worst of others. Perhaps I'm a starry-eyed optimist, but I firmly believe that the majority of players are NOT so wrapped up in their pride that they'd deliberately sabotage someone for trying to help. I'm willing to admit that I, too, may be a victim of perception bias, though in my case I tendto downplay the negative experiences I've had, rather than dwell on them. Personally, I think that's the preferred form of perception bias for any individual in a position where they're expected to guide and help others, whether it be in this game or in real life. Recognize that the bad apples may be frustrating, but as long as you can reach a few receptive individuals, it makes up for all the crap, and then some.

I don't know Miste, and she could be the kindest, sweetest person imaginable - but it does not matter. Her post was one typical of those that I've heard, enforcing the idea that mentors shouldn't even TRY to mentor, because they'll just get shut down and harassed. EVEN IF IT WAS TRUE, it is harmful, and serves to frighten newer mentors who might otherwise try to help others. It implies that it's just not worth trying, that the mentor system has failed, that you might as well switch off the crown and pretend you never had it. This is not a viable, acceptable, or desirable solution.

As for the idea of "click to report this mentor as horrible" button at the end of a run, I'm also optimistic enough to believe that if the devs were to implement this, it would NOT be a one-click lose-mentor-status button. They do know that trolls exist and even without trolls some folks make rash decisions for stupid reasons.

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Being an optimist is one thing, being blind is another.

I would side with you if we did not have the following changes due to trolling:
penalty for rejecting queue when it pops up
----I got it from being in crafts, unable change job in fate (it requires you run too far and monsters can keep you tied up from changing job) and even D/C ( I d/ced before the thing poped up, log in to ----penalty because the game keeps you on too long.
-------- This change was made because people trolled the Duty finger and spammed reject because it was funny. If people where "more good then toxic" we would not have this change.

Duty abandonment penalty
---- This change came about most likely I am guessing for the same reason why it is in WoW. Some tank walks in with their insta queue, does not like the DF that pop up and leaves right away -----because they can just insta queue again. If people where "more good then toxic" we would not have this change.

Kick feature:
---- We did not start 2.0 with it.

PvP feast chat:
----- recently there was a chat removal in feast due to people being toxic.

Mentor system in general:
----- There is lots of complaints here how people can't get help or calling the chat useless. I seen it along with the kick function used as a pure harassment tool.

Also shocked you have 2.4k posts and never seen miste's tone before in posts, if she can act like she does here, it is CLEAR AS DAY she is very civil in the game. I am shocked to hear she has problems like the rest of us tbh, only shows more why mentor review is a bad idea and get trolled. If people even make premades in DF to simply troll and fail them, then this system will be abused, without a question it will be. I would love to be optimistic and like to see it work, however I am not blind and it does not address mentors being helpful in the open world. This may be news for you but there are crafting and gathering people, even mentors with this tag, that hate setting foot in DF. So they should have status taken away because they never really can be reviewed? I do not think so

I disagree with you perspective Ama Hamada.

Yes we should have troll safe guards, because once in a blue moon someone will pull a trick, but that does not mean we are too toxic for a mentor end of dungeon survey thing.

Usually when someone mentions they're new to the duty, I'm usually like "Oh don't worry, this place is easy." If they ask for mechanics I will give them. If not, I assume they would like to do a blind run and just see what happens. If you don't speak up, I won't help you. I've been ignored or berated too many times by just giving advice without them needing to ask for it. In OP's situation, the mentor healers should have expected that people would mess up. I have seen people one-shot Nidhogg as a newbie to the fight only once.

I don't do Mentor Roulette so I'm certainly not doing it for the mount. I do it to show others that I'm someone who can help.

I would use Novice Network if it wasn't filled with people calling out hunts (rather, the same person every time). I shut it off because that was really getting on my nerves.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I don't know Miste, and she could be the kindest, sweetest person imaginable - but it does not matter. Her post was one typical of those that I've heard, enforcing the idea that mentors shouldn't even TRY to mentor, because they'll just get shut down and harassed. EVEN IF IT WAS TRUE, it is harmful, and serves to frighten newer mentors who might otherwise try to help others. It implies that it's just not worth trying, that the mentor system has failed, that you might as well switch off the crown and pretend you never had it. This is not a viable, acceptable, or desirable solution.

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I just tell the truth of my experiences. I'm probably more unlucky than others unfortunately where my percentage is very high of people ignoring me completely and/or harassing me for trying to tell them how to play; be it for mechanics or tips and advice for their jobs.

I also never said anywhere in my post that mentors shouldn't try to mentor. I still do even with all the nasty stuff I get thrown at me...you seriously haven't seen the nasty I have seen and I could go into horrid detail right now of some of the really terrible comments I've received even for the most simplest of assistance.

From a SMN telling me to "f*** off" after I tried to help him with a boss mechanic in a dungeon to that WHM calling me an "elitist b****" for just giving a newbie player info on where to buy a new weapon after we finished the Vault run we were in since they were still using a level 50 weapon (i100) at level 59.

It's just the truth if you become a mentor and actively try to help other players you are going to get crapped on more often than not and it is more of a warning that you need to be ready for that if you want to be a mentor and try to fulfill what a mentor is supposed to be.

So no I don't think it is "harmful" we shouldn't pretend everything is sunshine and rainbows when it isn't. The mentor system hasn't failed, but it definitely isn't what it COULD be if everyone were not so quick to get defensive at other players and if the mentors who actively behave terribly like in OP would just not wear the crown and move on since it isn't a position to abuse new players like that when you are supposed to be helping them.

Any mentor who would get scared likely doesn't have a thick enough skin to be a mentor in the first place unfortunately and there is just no point in lying about my experiences.

The joy is the times people appreciated my help and its great...it just is so sad that it is so very few memories for me personally.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

As for the idea of "click to report this mentor as horrible" button at the end of a run, I'm also optimistic enough to believe that if the devs were to implement this, it would NOT be a one-click lose-mentor-status button. They do know that trolls exist and even without trolls some folks make rash decisions for stupid reasons.

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It's not a good system because even if it isn't just one "No" and you get your rewards revoked some mentors are still going to get their statuses and rewards removed with no real valid reasons due to the fact you cannot give subjective people power over someone else's character. I get into a string of people who don't like my advice or help and they all downvote me one after one and I'll get mine removed even if I was trying to mentor properly.

You cannot give subjective people power over your character with the power to remove something your character has earned. The main problem is the subjectivity. One person might say "Hey...that mentor helped with a lot of the mechanics, but they didn't even teach the DRG how to play right so I carried his DPS....yeah not good enough "Downvote" (maybe the mentor doesn't know how to play DRG? I know I don't, but is it fair to expect a mentor in a video game to know every single aspect of everything?) while another might be like "Ohh that mentor didn't speak at all meh "Downvote" (even though the run went smooth and fine since everyone knew how to do the run so the mentor had nothing to mentor, but some people just hate it when mentors are silent no matter the circumstances).

Some people just don't like it when people do or don't do certain things and its all from that person's personality. You can't give that kind of power to regular players. Like I said SE would need to hire new staff and pay them to watch over the mentor system because of all the different views players have.


PS. Thank you akaneakki, Ama Hamada, and SenorPatty for the help with explaining and the support. :)

And akaneakki, and Ama, I am glad you guys like my posts I am no saint though :x I get into my arguments on here once in awhile although I do always try to be civil about it so I am glad my efforts have been working. Some people just say some really rude things on here and I just feel the need to tell them to stop it ><

http://i.imgur.com/MFmKFhc.png

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Originally Posted by Miste

And akaneakki, and Ama, I am glad you guys like my posts I am no saint though :x I get into my arguments on here once in awhile although I do always try to be civil about it so I am glad my efforts have been working. Some people just say some really rude things on here and I just feel the need to tell them to stop it ><]

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That is the key part, I try as well but for some reason it is not good enough in some places. I feel the boards here are generally unwelcoming to me, love to twist my words and stories around to attack me further. I do not know what to do anymore I am in up and arms.

[QUOTE=Miste;4136457]PS. Thank you akaneakki, Ama Hamada, and SenorPatty for the help with explaining and the support. :)/QUOTE]
NP!People I know got banned on the forum, because they actually stood againt's those who said things like ''who cares, let them play however they want'' ''elitist asshole etc'' simply because they wanted to give help to new people or older players who needed a kick on their butt. You see it everywhere on the forum and you also see it quite a lot in the game sadly.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

...
you might as well be asking for the moon delivered to you on a silver platter.
...

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No thank you...

Already had Dalmud delivered and I was not happy with that experience!

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Originally Posted by Synrin

Then we'd be left with around 10% of player population. Everyone loses their shit now and again. But if you decide to get a title and a symbol to show that you are willing to help then it automatically implies that you have the patience for teaching players and getting them through. Including teaching them how to behave and have patience/understanding themselves.

Definition of mentor: a trusted counselor or guide

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when I place my crown symbol on, it is not something to show off or to get bonus of any sort

it is a commitment of patient, of kind, of not boast, of not arrogant. not dishonor others, not easily angered, always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres

this is what a mentor should be, and we need a system to remove mentor status of the bad blood

They shouldn't have added such huge rewards to mentor system if they wanted people to be a mentor for the sake of helping people and not just for a giant pegasus. I'm guilty of being one of those people who became a mentor only so I can get the mount, though I do not try to be mean (though some people take any criticism as being a bully [don't tell me to do my positionals or to click my combo]).

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Originally Posted by Korihu

They shouldn't have added such huge rewards to mentor system if they wanted people to be a mentor for the sake of helping people and not just for a giant pegasus. I'm guilty of being one of those people who became a mentor only so I can get the mount, though I do not try to be mean (though some people take any criticism as being a bully [don't tell me to do my positionals or to click my combo]).

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Unfortunately, adding the mount worked spectacularly in one regard, so I doubt SE will ever consider it to be a failure: It filled party slots. Yes, it filled party slots with some pretty terrible mentors a lot of the time, but it filled them - and in most cases, those mentors, bad or not, DID carry the instance to completion. This did terrible, terrible things to the reputations of mentors as a whole, but it WORKED. Even excluding Ex Primals (which many bad mentors will simply bail on outright since the odds of failure are unpleasantly high), there are a LOT of instances that are covered by Mentor Roulette, but not (or insufficiently) by other roulettes. By adding a reward with real value to Mentor Roulette, it attracted a LOT of folks to become mentors to do those roulettes. If I had to guess, I'd say that initial implementation of the Mentor system did not provide as big a boost to these rarely-run instances as SE had hoped, so they added a carrot.

I wish they'd done this another way. Maybe added a "Grab Bag Roulette" outside of the mentor system and put the Pegasus there. Unfortunately, it is what it is.

I wear my mentor crown so I can show the sprouts on what kind of community we are. I want more people to join FF14, not scare them away. Any mentor who would act like that would be kick and if not kicked reported for harassment,hostile language, and abusing the vote abandon button.