So cloning WoW is ok? As heard many others say XIV ARR is just a wow clone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW!
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08-04-2016, 11:54 AMLexia
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08-04-2016, 11:58 AMLexia1.0 had a whole slew of problems people had to worry about before even thinking if it was too much like XI.Quote:
Originally Posted by cakesphere
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08-04-2016, 11:58 AMJimmyDeanI don't want ffxi-2. but i sure as hell didnt/dont want WoW-2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arielyanna
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08-04-2016, 11:59 AMLexiaXI today only a shell of what it use to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velox
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08-04-2016, 12:03 PMJynxCommon misconception.Quote:
Originally Posted by cakesphere
Tanaka has stated in interviews after he parted ways with Square Enix that he was specifically told to make the game as different from XI as possible. Being unable to make the game he wanted he let the developers under him handle most major aspects of the games design. Only when 1.0 flopped was he givin more control and ultimately removed from the project. Most of the updates to the game even after he left followed his road-plan to make the game more entertaining and it was salvaged in many ways until the decision that the game engine wasn't enough to work with (Something Tanaka told them at the start). -
08-04-2016, 12:04 PMKitingGenbu
Yeah....I don't see this thread getting deleted...
At least the thread I started a few days ago will still be around if anyone wants to drop some content ideas and such: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Addition-Ideas -
08-04-2016, 12:15 PMAtoliNo, thank you.Quote:
Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW!
Just make it like neither. -
08-04-2016, 12:19 PMJimmyDeanReally? Lol. Usually successor's to games are like their predecessor. No?Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoli
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08-04-2016, 12:23 PMVivi_Bushido
This FFXI revival just needs to stop already. The game is dead, get over it. Trying to bring the game back just makes you sound like another one of those old people that keeps bickering, "Back in my day we ---!" We know everyone is obsessed with their childhood games. We all are. But the reality is, those times are dead. We have to grow up and move on and realize that times have changed. If we didn't, we'd be stuck in the SNES and N64 era forever.
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08-04-2016, 12:30 PMAlaltusThis isn't quite true though; 1-10 were all built around the same formula and only deviated just enough to feel fresh which was the genius of FF in comparison to pokemon which churns out the same game over and over. The reason 12-15 are so radically different is because SE no longer have Sakaguchi. If XIV had taken the original FF formula then it would have been a PVE open world player centric game like XI was but with a different flavour which was kind of what the original version was working towards but then it was so unfinished it was hard to tell what the ultimate goal was exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnaviAnael
Come 2.0 SE's reaction has been to make everything in the game linear. Linear story, linear dungeons, linear classes/jobs, linear endgame, linear itemisation, linear quests, linear content rollout, linear expansions. They are acting as if they are afraid that if they leave any choices in our hands that we will just choose to give up and leave. The thing that will really determine wether i personally will stay or go is wether or not XIV can come up with a motivated player/social centric endgame because otherwise i may as well be playing any other single player game.
Dutyfinder is holding a social endgame back when it should just be a device for easy experience points prior to endgame; thats all it was ever sold as in the first place. Free companies and linkshells lack purpose when no one need bother organise anything but aquapolis because they can just turn single player on and go into dutyfinder -
08-04-2016, 12:33 PMDumbledoremdWhy dont you people go play 11 stop trying to make FFXIV into something its notQuote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDean
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08-04-2016, 12:34 PMJimmyDeanThis isnt about FFXI revival really. But call it what you will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido
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08-04-2016, 12:37 PMSkivvyDid you read the thread? It's a short one, should not take long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido
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08-04-2016, 12:51 PMEvangela
No, thanks. FFXI was boring.
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08-04-2016, 12:53 PMJimmyDeanI respect your opinion. I beg to differ tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangela
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08-04-2016, 12:54 PMShurrikhanTen-tonne swing is scripted and has no indicator. It only kills just enough people to make everyone else laugh (at them). I think that's a perfect balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Natashio
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08-04-2016, 01:04 PMKurogaeaI wonder if this is a sign of the devs thinking players are too braindead to play a high action gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Natashio
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08-04-2016, 01:07 PMJimmyDeanThey basically said that without saying it. There is things that Yoshi said he doesn't want to put in because it will confuse new players. Or something along those lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurogaea
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08-04-2016, 01:11 PMVivi_BushidoIt's not? Oh dear. I do apologize. Either my eyes deceive me or the title of this thread is horribly misleading when it says "Make FFXIV more like FXI".Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDean
Yes I read the thread. All it had to say was "Make FFXIV more like FXI. Yes, I went there."Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
Oh you meant the comments of the other people? Again, please forgive me. I probably should've since the OP had no suggestions in their post to give us a discussion with. I was pretty sure this was just another, "FFXIV isn't FFXI. Take us back to the glory days" threads. -
08-04-2016, 01:14 PMZumi
FFXIV doesn't play like wow at all really. FFXIV is its own game. Both games you mentioned are still available as well for people who like them.
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08-04-2016, 01:15 PMSkivvyResponding to a thread while (admittedly) only reading a single comment isn't all that recommended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido
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08-04-2016, 01:20 PMVivi_BushidoAgain, the OP had absolutely no suggestions or topic. He just had a title and that was it. He never stated why he felt the way he did, he never stated what part of the game felt like WoW, or needed improvement on. He never stated anything that remotely gave the commenters a reason to discuss anything. So what point is there in reading what others have to say in a discussion that never began with a discussion in the first place? Starting a thread to just let posters take the wheel is not a very good way to convince the devs to do anything. Secondly, I commented to you didn't I? Therefore common sense would suggest that I did read the thread, otherwise how else would I possibly notice your comment? :p Third, at this point, your statements while further not adding what it is you wish for me to know by reading the thread, cleary suggests to me, #troll bait detected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
Anything else you care to add, mister? -
08-04-2016, 01:23 PMJimmyDeanI'm not trying to convince the devs. lol. This is posted in General discussion. Which is exactly whats happening. General discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido
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08-04-2016, 01:31 PMVivi_BushidoAnd I am generally discussing my own thoughts and opinions by saying the game is fine. It doesn't need to be more like FFXI or WoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDean
You guys miss FFXI, I get that. I really do. You grew up with it; and it was probably your first MMO ever, your childhood, that's fine. But just because FFXIV isn't FFXI, doesn't make it a bad game. Everyone prefers what they grew up with. That's just how the world works. Sadly, the world is growing up through. We're getting new technology, new advancements, new players. Sad to say, FFXIV isn't designed around FFXI players. It's designed around the new gamers of today and the old gamers. A casual social place for the casual social gamer. -
08-04-2016, 01:38 PMJimmyDeanIt's casual indeed. Social, not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido
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08-04-2016, 01:45 PMLexiaLike this person saidQuote:
Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido
A person can do large majority of this game without ever talking to or making friends with anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDean
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08-04-2016, 01:49 PMKitingGenbuI kind of have to agree. They copied the DF aspect, but forgot the social aspect that WoW allows, which is allows people to add friends to your account so you can stay in touch if you meet cool people through instanced content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexia
Then again, something like that shouldn't be surprising since we can't even communicate via tells in instances even within the instance, I guess due to RMT prevention. There's not even a private message function on the forum. Maybe that's for RMT prevention purposes too. -
08-04-2016, 01:52 PMAutoWhitYou do realize WoW isn't the only game that does this? In fact they weren't even the 1st. This game is far better than WoW, in almost every aspect. If it wasn't I don't think you'd even be here.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDean
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08-04-2016, 02:03 PMJimmyDeanAre you an ex WoW player by chance?Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoWhit
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08-04-2016, 02:05 PMAutoWhitIndeed I am. Like most, I assume.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDean
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08-04-2016, 02:08 PMJimmyDeanIt shows.......Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoWhit
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08-04-2016, 02:16 PMAutoWhit;) 2 thumbs up for being one of the few that get it!Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDean
Probably my all time favorite dungeon, from any game (the vanilla version anyway). -
08-04-2016, 02:22 PMDragoonSantosi have a solutions guild
make it both like wow and ffxi and ff14 shaboooom
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08-04-2016, 02:22 PMBourne_EndeavorHate to say it, but... welcome to gaming in the 21st century. There is a reason Pokemon Go is considered such a cultural phenomenon. People simply aren't interested in being forced to interact outside their discretion. In fact, games that have attempted it often see limited success if any whatsoever. That is in large part because people can be unreliable. I, personally, do not want a game where I have to be social in order to progress. Few people will organize groups for content. They'll merely play something else. Hence why MMOs do not force social interaction; only encourage it. A big turn off back in FFXI was being required to party at early levels lest I get annihilated by a buffalo. I'll make friends at my own leisure, thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDean
FFXI suffered from a complete lack of balance. Certainljobs were unquestionably superior and if you even attempted to deviant from the preferred norm, you would not get invited to parties. This nostalgia obsession with FFXI is simply that: nostalgia. If SE ever did implement some form of horizontal progression in FFXIV, it would inevitably be grinded down to what is mathematically best and any other weapon variance would be relegated to obscurity. -
08-04-2016, 02:55 PMKurogaeaPlease don't mix in everyone with ffxi fanatics. As much as I didn't like ffxi, there was a charm in that game I couldn't get in this game but I seen in other mmos too. Eorzea's overworlds are big playgrounds with less substance besides the background and lore, which leaves the players to their imagination for rp purposes. Fates are events that can't be altered, they're little stories on repeat. In ffxi I didn't see any of those but the overwolrd would speak for itself. It was dangerous to traverse alone and the land was vast. Dungeons were open and going through those were even more treacherous but exciting. Battles are set like dances now since mechanics and patterns are the only way to increase difficulty. I was never a fan of ffxi's gameplay as it was really stiff, but as far as I can tell the fights were easily mended to the players. There was so many options and choices of strategy and it wasn't revolved around enemy mechanics that if ignored can punish the players by insta wiping or dps checks. Just about all he things I can think of I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido
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08-04-2016, 03:15 PMShurrikhanIt's not as if that wasn't the case in FFXI already. It's a matter of degree, mathematically, more than it is a difference in any two communities. As you said, XI suffered from a lack of balance. Much of the rigid requirements are only product of that. Some choices were just that inferior. Balance could have avoided that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
If two weapons are more than some 10% apart in output, you'll see vocal community preference towards the better. But inversely, at some point approaching equality both become acceptable. "Horizontal" progression as a 'this is best for this fight', etc. paradigm, where each fight may require gear from a number of others just to be permitted entry, is not really horizontal so much as it is simply many vertical paths. FFXIV could already accomplish this by simply having any second means of achieving a certain level of gear at a certain difficulty. For "horizontal" progression to be truly as named, there needs to be elements of wide access, and/or each of these fights requiring X, Y, and Z gear, must also have a sense of vertical progression between them, allowing you choice of progression paths. If, regardless of overall ilvl, each fight requires very particular prior progression, it just becomes a winding, but still basically singular, road.
Probably the biggest reason we haven't seen hint or trace of horizontal gearing in XIV is that it's not a particularly efficient model. In the end, it's something that allows choice, which means allowing people to potentially skip content you've spent resources to create. If weapon A is as good as weapon B, within whatever precision or playstyle you're likely ever to use either for, there's no real reason to gather weapon B.
And that's not even mentioning how little playstyle variance XIV makes available, even if gear were crucial to that. Aside from Bard and SCH Crit, Speed is about the only the stat with a visible effect on one's rotation, and the latter, sadly, suffers from oversights that condemn its balance anyways. -
08-04-2016, 03:21 PMAlphaFox
To be honest I actually would have preferred if they had kept the XI style combat (or 1.0 if you will tho I've only seen video) but just updated it and made it better.
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08-04-2016, 03:31 PMEnkidohExcept this was a complete illusion and came down to using what was considered the functionally best subjob combination for your main Job, in other words, what abilities and stats it would bring to the table. Some sub jobs did little to affect the most important stats on a main job and some couldn't make use of their abilities (BRD subbed was an example of this - because most songs required a musical instrument which could not be equipped while BRD was a sub job, it meant you could only use a small selection of songs that were actually sung, missing most of BRD's important repertoire). If a player even so much as attempted to set a subjob that the community did not consider worthwhile, you were basically laughed out of Dodge and couldn't get into any parties. There was absolutely no room to experiment at all. All FFXIV has done is accept this and taken the blinders off to see this illusion for what it truly is. Technically you could experiment, but in practice you didn't, you went with the 'established choices' (WAR subbed for PLD, NIN and DRK, NIN for pretty much everything, BLM for mage Jobs, DNC later on for soloing etc) - there was no way around it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sho86
And when the development team comes out and says that a Job has actually been used incorrectly by players you know such a system is broken utterly (specifically: NIN and it's use as a so-called 'blink-tank' in FFXI - Tanaka's team never intended for NIN to tank, it was meant to be an enfeebling DPS class with Utsusemi being nothing more than a 'get-out-of-jail-free-card' when they pulled too much hate. Players of course abused this and used it for tanking, then whined when SE tried to actually stop players doing just such a thing by having enemies that ate through a NIN's shadows wholesale). Current producer Akihiko Matsui actually mentioned this was not their intention just recently during a FFXI-version of 'Letter From the Producer LIVE' that was hosted on Reddit (the transcript is on the FFXI forum):
So it goes to show that players were abusing the Jobs in ways that the development team never intended them for, which is exactly why the FFXIV Armoury System is set up the way it is, it's to stop a repeat of this sort of nonsense from happening again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fantasy XI Website
The trouble with this is that ARR's very design brief right at the start of development was specifically to avoid this - Yoshi-P stated specifically early on that he wanted to move players away from exp parties (seeing the problems this caused in both FFXI and FFXIV 1.0) and onto what he termed "content-based exp", that is, gaining exp through other gameplay means such as quest completion. ARR's very battle system accordingly is designed specifically to stop exp party camping by having enemies 'leashed' to a certain spot (where if you try to pull them away too far they'll de-agro you and run back to their spawn spot with your hate reset). And, given the fact that unlike FFXI ARR is like all good modern MMORPGs and doesn't lock an enemy exclusively to you and thus other players can jump in and hit the enemy even outside of a party, old-style exp parties would rush through enemies more quickly than what you would expect anyway. So basically this concept simply would not work and thus will never be seen in ARR, this was Yoshi decision and he's made sure of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sho86
As for the OP, Bourne_Endeavor basically summed up my own thoughts on this subject so I have nothing further to add, other than once again reiterating that this game will never be like FFXI - a game that was from a much earlier period of gaming which thankfully the gaming industry has moved on from. FFXIV is a modern MMORPG designed to appeal to more casual time-conscious players. The days of level grinding in the 'Dooms' and exp loss on death and 18-hour straight HNM boss fights like Absolute Virtue have thankfully gone forever. I loved FFXI for the 11 years I've been playing it but I was also not blinded by nostalgia and saw it's many faults and problems even back in it's heyday. The past is passed. Time to move on. -
08-04-2016, 03:58 PMAlexander_Dragonfang
I`d rather have the illusion of choice and have a balance broken game that what we have respect character customization. I want a VIT/Skill speed off tank Dragoon.
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08-04-2016, 04:18 PMMagic-MalEqual opportunity is why this won't happen. If DRGs could off tank, real off tanks won't be brought to groups. That's bad. Wasn't there a time where people were tanking Ramuh EX with TITAN-EGI!? And then refuse to bring tanks and brought DPS instead? Sounds like something like that would slide in FFXI. Not FFXIV though. It's good they fixed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang