When will we get info on class changes?

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Originally Posted by KamikazeMan

THM DOES mean "bringer of miracles" so I wouldn't be surprised if THM becomes totally changes and gets white magic while Conjurer gets black magic.

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in jp it means curse user, in this case i wouldnt look to deeply into the class name etymolgy

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Originally Posted by Nayt

Considering it's nov. 3'd in three days, I'd say hold your ponies!

I also still find it amusing how people seem to percieve thm as whm and con as blm.

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Probably because the elemental spells are associated with BLM in FFXI (Fire, etc). That conjurer has cure, though... pretty much spells it out (probably)

They sure goofed up

I seriously see thm becoming a whm.. as much as I wanna puke to think this because it is NOT what I wanted because I lvl'd whm first in XI and the "Hey! your a whm" haunted me for nearly a decade... I might serious start a new character if this happens because I REALLY do not want to be a whm again..

*End of Soapbox*

:)

I honestly think they should come out with just one more Job and turn THM into Red Mage and call it a day. Conj could choose to be both.

I fought Snurgle or how its spelled, and he cast Protect III on himself and nuked me with nothing but THM spells. I wouldnt be surprised if they give Thm Curaga and Shell/Protect spells if this new monster is anything to go by.

Personally, I have an issue with classes being limited in PT role options, and with Jobs, this will be worse.
A 2nd job option for every class needs to eventually be added.
(Aka if it heals, need DD or tank, if its a tank, it needs DD or heal.)
The best I could think up (for now) was;
GLA -> PLD or Knight (Two Hand, unequip a shield to do more dmg.) I would suggest a sort of Dual wield, but *shrug*
PGL -> MNK or THF or NIN (some sort of optional DD/tank, depending on MNK mechanics)
MRD -> WAR or DRK (Not sure what else could use a Great Axe)
LNC -> DRG or SAM (Also not sure what else could use a polearm)
ARC -> BRD or RNG (not sure what else again)
CNJ -> WHM or RDM (Similar to CNJ, but more DD focused maybe)
THM -> BLM or Time Mage ( not sure what else, maybe BLU or SCH *shrug*)

Right now, if 2 friends want to play GLA, the 2nd is useless, since the 2nd GLA can't DD instead.
With jobs, this doesn't seem to be getting fixed any. (Maybe I'm wrong)

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Personally, I have an issue with classes being limited in PT role options, and with Jobs, this will be worse.
A 2nd job option for every class needs to eventually be added.
(Aka if it heals, need DD or tank, if its a tank, it needs DD or heal.)
The best I could think up (for now) was;
GLA -> PLD or Knight (Two Hand, unequip a shield to do more dmg.) I would suggest a sort of Dual wield, but *shrug*
PGL -> MNK or THF or NIN (some sort of optional DD/tank, depending on MNK mechanics)
MRD -> WAR or DRK (Not sure what else could use a Great Axe)
LNC -> DRG or SAM (Also not sure what else could use a polearm)
ARC -> BRD or RNG (not sure what else again)
CNJ -> WHM or RDM (Similar to CNJ, but more DD focused maybe)
THM -> BLM or Time Mage ( not sure what else, maybe BLU or SCH *shrug*)

Right now, if 2 friends want to play GLA, the 2nd is useless, since the 2nd GLA can't DD instead.
With jobs, this doesn't seem to be getting fixed any. (Maybe I'm wrong)

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I agree too, each class needs to have two different playstyles otherwise jobs just make things too restrictive. Every class needs to have AT LEAST two avenues and directions to go down, otherwise it's not adding a layer of flexibility at all, and just adding a layer of restrictions.

That's why the dev's team newfound fixation with "Class distinctiveness" has me concerned. Did they ever think that maybe it's better if classes are left indistinct in order to facilitate multiple playstyles so as not to pigeonhole everyone?

I think that job system will be a problem until they start adding more jobs for each class. At least two are needed, imo.

Can't wait till we finally know! I am looking forward to it ^^ Did you guys know in FFXI THM was a BLM Type mob? :O

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Vanguard_Thaumaturge

Whether they keep it the same or not we shall see :)

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

Can't wait till we finally know! I am looking forward to it ^^ Did you guys know in FFXI THM was a BLM Type mob? :O

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Vanguard_Thaumaturge

Whether they keep it the same or not we shall see :)

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http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Goblin_Conjurer

=P

(I just did search for Conjurer, I remember the Vanguard Thaumaturges)

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Personally, I have an issue with classes being limited in PT role options, and with Jobs, this will be worse.
A 2nd job option for every class needs to eventually be added.
(Aka if it heals, need DD or tank, if its a tank, it needs DD or heal.)
The best I could think up (for now) was;
GLA -> PLD or Knight (Two Hand, unequip a shield to do more dmg.) I would suggest a sort of Dual wield, but *shrug*
PGL -> MNK or THF or NIN (some sort of optional DD/tank, depending on MNK mechanics)
MRD -> WAR or DRK (Not sure what else could use a Great Axe)
LNC -> DRG or SAM (Also not sure what else could use a polearm)
ARC -> BRD or RNG (not sure what else again)
CNJ -> WHM or RDM (Similar to CNJ, but more DD focused maybe)
THM -> BLM or Time Mage ( not sure what else, maybe BLU or SCH *shrug*)

Right now, if 2 friends want to play GLA, the 2nd is useless, since the 2nd GLA can't DD instead.
With jobs, this doesn't seem to be getting fixed any. (Maybe I'm wrong)

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In that you noted "job can use x weapon but when exactly has a BRD used a bow lol. The reality is it may moreso be the abilities behind a class rather then the weapon themselves that may determine the classes that come from them. Since it was noted that apparantly 30 GLA and 15 MAR would be a PLD. With that in mind what exactly makes MAR a requirement for PLD is it because of their parry abilities? But ya, hopefully we'll get some answers in the next few days since it would be reallly intersting to see how jobs work, I hope if they do bring it up they'll actually show an example of the whole concept behind it.

From other things that's been said in interviews they made it sound like you advance through the job by doing quest to obtain abilities and quest, though I wonder if they'll also integrate Guild Marks into abilities which would also be nice.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Goblin_Conjurer

=P

(I just did search for Conjurer, I remember the Vanguard Thaumaturges)

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Lol omg XD SE need to make up their mind! Hahaha

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Originally Posted by Airget

Since it was noted that apparantly 30 GLA and 15 MAR would be a PLD. With that in mind what exactly makes MAR a requirement for PLD is it because of their parry abilities?

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Marauder gives you Defender which would be pretty essential for a Paladin.

I just want Musketeer.

I want Musketeer so badly.

Please Bayohne, grace me with knowledge. I can't sleep at night, I break down in tears at random, I just can't carry on.

Must... be... gangsta.

Giving me a hand cannon for two seconds in the LL storyline CS was the worst tease ever.

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

I just want Musketeer.

I want Musketeer so badly.

Please Bayohne, grace me with knowledge. I can't sleep at night, I break down in tears at random, I just can't carry on.

Must... be... gangsta.

Giving me a hand cannon for two seconds in the LL storyline CS was the worst tease ever.

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Yoshi already said that the next classes they're bringing out will be magic classes and pet classes and they hope to get those in by 2.0 but no promises. So I'd wager on any more DoW classes being on hold until 2.0 release or after, but that's just my thought.

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Originally Posted by Nayt

Considering it's nov. 3'd in three days, I'd say hold your ponies!

I also still find it amusing how people seem to percieve thm as whm and con as blm.

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It's actually very easy considering CNJ has all the BLM Nukes. THM has true black magic but also has true white magic as well. Some people say something about it fitting in with the lore of Eorzea as well (I wouldn't know I don't read that stuff). It is very likely CNJ will be WHM, but I personally hope CNJ is BLM. I guess we will find out soon enough.

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Originally Posted by Altera

I fought Snurgle or how its spelled, and he cast Protect III on himself and nuked me with nothing but THM spells. I wouldnt be surprised if they give Thm Curaga and Shell/Protect spells if this new monster is anything to go by.

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Mobs use Armoury System aswell as players; i.e. Wisp type mobs cast Absorb spells and Siphon TP from THM plus Burn and Fire from CNJ.

IIRC Yoshi-P stated that there are going to be disappointed players with class changes and jobs, so if people are interested on one job, just level up both DoM classes so you can somehow skip that disappointment. Hell, it's even a good idea nowadays...

On a side note, snurbles are not new mobs, they've been implemented since Beta o.Oª

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

I agree too, each class needs to have two different playstyles otherwise jobs just make things too restrictive. Every class needs to have AT LEAST two avenues and directions to go down, otherwise it's not adding a layer of flexibility at all, and just adding a layer of restrictions.

That's why the dev's team newfound fixation with "Class distinctiveness" has me concerned. Did they ever think that maybe it's better if classes are left indistinct in order to facilitate multiple playstyles so as not to pigeonhole everyone?

I think that job system will be a problem until they start adding more jobs for each class. At least two are needed, imo.

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OR one friend could just level a DD class and be done with it. Seriously, leveling these days is not hard at all, especially once you hit the mid-30's. With the right groups you can skyrocket right to 50 from there within days easily.

Yeah, more jobs would help things and they'll get to it eventually. For the start of the system, 1 job per class is reasonable enough. Though honestly these fictional people who only level a single class to 50 are gonna be screwed when they add the multi-class jobs.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

OR one friend could just level a DD class and be done with it. Seriously, leveling these days is not hard at all, especially once you hit the mid-30's. With the right groups you can skyrocket right to 50 from there within days easily.

Yeah, more jobs would help things and they'll get to it eventually. For the start of the system, 1 job per class is reasonable enough. Though honestly these fictional people who only level a single class to 50 are gonna be screwed when they add the multi-class jobs.

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uhhh i think, the point is not just leveling jobs, but with classes, most of them you can play them at least two ways, so basically limiting playstyles to 7 total in the whole game, and probably ignoring, or diminishing half of your skill list.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

OR one friend could just level a DD class and be done with it. Seriously, leveling these days is not hard at all, especially once you hit the mid-30's. With the right groups you can skyrocket right to 50 from there within days easily.

Yeah, more jobs would help things and they'll get to it eventually. For the start of the system, 1 job per class is reasonable enough. Though honestly these fictional people who only level a single class to 50 are gonna be screwed when they add the multi-class jobs.

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Yeah uh you kind of missed the point

I'd be interested in seeing Gladiator split based on shield equip. When you're just wielding a sword, you're a gladiator. When you have a shield equipped, sure, you're still a gladiator, but you're also a Sentinel.

It'd be interesting if you equip your job stone with just a sword, you become a Knight with a great sword. If you have a shield equipped, you become a Paladin.

If they ever give archer dagger access, if you equip your job stone with a dagger equipped, you become a Thief. If you have a bow equipped, you become a Bard.

Using your job stone with a two handed THM arm would turn you into a White Mage, but a one handed arm would turn you into a Blue Mage.

Same concept for CNJ. Two handed arm turns you into a Black Mage, one handed turns you into a Red Mage.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

I'd be interested in seeing Gladiator split based on shield equip. When you're just wielding a sword, you're a gladiator. When you have a shield equipped, sure, you're still a gladiator, but you're also a Sentinel.

It'd be interesting if you equip your job stone with just a sword, you become a Knight with a great sword. If you have a shield equipped, you become a Paladin.

If they ever give archer dagger access, if you equip your job stone with a dagger equipped, you become a Thief. If you have a bow equipped, you become a Bard.

Using your job stone with a two handed THM arm would turn you into a White Mage, but a one handed arm would turn you into a Blue Mage.

Same concept for CNJ. Two handed arm turns you into a Black Mage, one handed turns you into a Red Mage.

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Mmm... I'd assume both Blue and Red Mages to be accessed from Gladiator with requirements in other classes. I say this because traditionally Red Mages are warriors that wield swords/daggers and magic and Blue Mages (although seen with many weapons, from guns to whips) are most often seen with swords as well in the series.

For the shield theory, they've already hinted on that. They've said that some gear will have job requirements. This means a shield could require PLD job. This also means a sword could have a Knight requirement and maybe Knight's passive is that they can't wield shields. I highly believe that each job is set as is but the rest of the character can be determined by the gear, not the other way around. Giving Archer dagger access breaks the armoury system as well, as daggers could likely be a Rogue class to lead to the Thief and Ninja jobs. Though daggers are swords currently in this game... which could be proof that Thief, Ninja, Red Mage, Blue Mage, Paladin could all stem from Gladiator with other classes thrown into the mix for each specific one.

With the way THM AOE works it would be more suited to buffing and AoE healing as it has much wider and longer cast range, I really hope they go this route.

As for Red and Blue mage, did you all forget there was a planned fencer class ?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

With the way THM AOE works it would be more suited to buffing and AoE healing as it has much wider and longer cast range, I really hope they go this route.

As for Red and Blue mage, did you all forget there was a planned fencer class ?

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I had actually forgotten haha. I could see Red Mage spur from there, maybe Blue Mage as well. Gotta admit though I liked them using Falchion-type swords in XI :P Which are a sub-type of sword here too. Course Blue Mage could be a stem from the whip-wielding class they mentioned in alpha .dats as well, along with Beastmaster and possibly Summoner.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

With the way THM AOE works it would be more suited to buffing and AoE healing as it has much wider and longer cast range, I really hope they go this route.

As for Red and Blue mage, did you all forget there was a planned fencer class ?

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ehhh i think you just want con to be a blm.

yeah thaum has a cone, but that also works wonders for damage, annnd con has multiple raises, and curagas, soooo

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Originally Posted by Physic

ehhh i think you just want con to be a blm.

yeah thaum has a cone, but that also works wonders for damage, annnd con has multiple raises, and curagas, soooo

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I wouldn't judge what's coming based on the abilities so much right now, 1.20 is bringing ability changes for CNJ and THM. They could easily give the buffs and cures to THM if they wanted. Going by the games lore it makes sense for CNJ to be Black Mage and THM to be White Mage. But like I said before, the 2.0 screenshot has a White Mage using a CNJ weapon. There's really no way the public can tell which will be which by what we have been given for information.

It's also entirely possible that they will make the Black Mage and White Mage job stones interchangeable between CNJ and THM. We haven't been told they can't yet, only that they are keeping the ratio of job releases 1:1 per class right now.

Moogle drops staff for THM also, staff is generally the CNJ's weapon of choice.

Yea yea im grasping at straws, and yes Physic I would rather the CNJ be the BLM :P

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

I wouldn't judge what's coming based on the abilities so much right now, 1.20 is bringing ability changes for CNJ and THM. They could easily give the buffs and cures to THM if they wanted. Going by the games lore it makes sense for CNJ to be Black Mage and THM to be White Mage. But like I said before, the 2.0 screenshot has a White Mage using a CNJ weapon. There's really no way the public can tell which will be which by what we have been given for information.

It's also entirely possible that they will make the Black Mage and White Mage job stones interchangeable between CNJ and THM. We haven't been told they can't yet, only that they are keeping the ratio of job releases 1:1 per class right now.

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actuaaallly lore wise, if thaum was a whm, it would have to be a fairly evil one, who likes killing as much as raising, so it can kill them again.

Whereas conjurers are your force of life one with the elements nice guys.

Still none of the lore matters, and they could renege on their obvious preference to make con into a whm. Just because 4 months ago they decided con was whm, doesnt mean they wont switch it up for once an all.

Still at this point i find it funny all the mages are pointing at the other guy like, oh yeah hes your whm bro.

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Yea yea im grasping at straws, and yes Physic I would rather the CNJ be the BLM :P

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It's not going to happen. They gave CON all the AoE cures and raises. They increased nuking potential for Banish and Scourge. Even look at the materia: VIT can be attached to Con weapons but not THM weapons, INT can be attached to THM weapons but not CON weapons. They did this with the mindset to increase THM nuking potential, and CON's enhancing magic potential.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

Lol omg XD SE need to make up their mind! Hahaha

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the great thing about final fantasy is, when the fantasy is over and the game is done. nothing has to be the same in the next one. i.e. how many cids have we seen. i'll just use two for an example. ff7 cid was a playable char, but FF12 cid was a crazy mad scientist boss. there is nothing to stop them making an evil chocobo the big bad boss of the next FF game (they won't or should i say better not) but in FF they can make anything happen and are not bound by what happened in a previous FF

P.S. sequel's are different

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Player feedback is not going to affect the big picture. We are here to give feedback about the details.

If they can't get it generally right without our help, this game simply isn't going to make it far, with or without 2.0.

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It's funny you mention that, because just about everything that has been changed in the game so far has been done so via our requests. I have only seen a small handful of truly original ideas that yoshi's team has thought of on their own without our input.

So yes, we make most of the game for them and the other 15% of it comes from their own creativity or is borrowed from the likes of FFXI and other previous FF titles.

It's kind of nice to know that we control this games destiny in a way, but at the same time that can be a scary thought.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Player feedback is not going to affect the big picture. We are here to give feedback about the details.

If they can't get it generally right without our help, this game simply isn't going to make it far, with or without 2.0.

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There is no big picture.

They just respond to complaints.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

There is no big picture.

They just respond to complaints.

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Sarcasm aside, the only complaints that are responded to are legitimate issues, i.e interface lag.

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Originally Posted by Physic

actuaaallly lore wise, if thaum was a whm, it would have to be a fairly evil one, who likes killing as much as raising, so it can kill them again.

Whereas conjurers are your force of life one with the elements nice guys.

Still none of the lore matters, and they could renege on their obvious preference to make con into a whm. Just because 4 months ago they decided con was whm, doesnt mean they wont switch it up for once an all.

Still at this point i find it funny all the mages are pointing at the other guy like, oh yeah hes your whm bro.

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If you do the CNJ quests, they are all about being buddy buddy with the elementals because the elementals are gigantic assholes who would murder you bad if you disrupted the forest, so it's not all peace and love.

At this point I don't care which DoM gets which Job but I hope we still are able to nuke/heal while as CNJ. I kinda like the all-around-caster feeling CNJ gets and I think it's more fun and suited to a playstyle I like than straight-up BLM/WHM.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

THM has true black magic but also has true white magic as well.

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banish, dia .... (w/o researching whm in ffxi... maybe) paralyze. what white magic? i'm not even going to really research this. off the top of my head, cnj has cure, curaga, raise (i know thm has one too but cnj has RAISE), radiance ability (light based), protect, shell, and spells to get rid of ailments. so don't pull the ability card.

according to abilities the only reason cnj would get blm is b/c of elemental nukes. (which is a fairly good enough reason) but thm REALLY doesn't have many whm abilities.

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Originally Posted by Physic

actuaaallly lore wise, if thaum was a whm, it would have to be a fairly evil one, who likes killing as much as raising, so it can kill them again.

Whereas conjurers are your force of life one with the elements nice guys.

Still none of the lore matters, and they could renege on their obvious preference to make con into a whm. Just because 4 months ago they decided con was whm, doesnt mean they wont switch it up for once an all.

Still at this point i find it funny all the mages are pointing at the other guy like, oh yeah hes your whm bro.

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Actually lorewise, it does make sense. THMs deal with Life AND death. In fact, the two Temples in Ul'dah are dedicated to the god Nald'Thal the dual deity of Life and death. One temple (The THM guild) Is the one dedicated to the death part of Nald'Thal while the second is the opposite. The second temple is very White Mage-y actually. Do some of the quests you get from them. You will see what I mean :)

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Originally Posted by Physic

actuaaallly lore wise, if thaum was a whm, it would have to be a fairly evil one, who likes killing as much as raising, so it can kill them again.

Whereas conjurers are your force of life one with the elements nice guys.

Still none of the lore matters, and they could renege on their obvious preference to make con into a whm. Just because 4 months ago they decided con was whm, doesnt mean they wont switch it up for once an all.

Still at this point i find it funny all the mages are pointing at the other guy like, oh yeah hes your whm bro.

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Also, CNJ are all about the Elementals. I think I read somewhere before about how BLMs would "Invoke the power of the Elementals' rage" or something along those lines. . . So CNJ's Black magic would be weaker than BLM's because well, CNJs kinda 'ask' and 'conjure up' their powers while the BLM would 'Invoke' or 'Force' the Elements' power.

But, that is just what I think anyway. . .

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Sarcasm aside, the only complaints that are responded to are legitimate issues, i.e interface lag.

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lol.

Restrictions on 90% of gear wasn't needed. Having the optimal system wasnt a legitimate fault that needed to be fixed. Yoshi just heard some people crying about it and decided that he would ruin the game.

There's lots of examples like this.

- lol

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Originally Posted by djjdiss

It's funny you mention that, because just about everything that has been changed in the game so far has been done so via our requests. I have only seen a small handful of truly original ideas that yoshi's team has thought of on their own without our input.

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Just because every idea may have been mentioned on the some XIV-related forum at some point (because most of the changes are very similar to what other MMO's do) doesn't mean you or me had something to do with them.

Not to mention we can say "plz change stats" but the actual mechanics and math is done by the dev team alone. Which is the hardest part of the design.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

lol.

Restrictions on 90% of gear wasn't needed. Having the optimal system wasnt a legitimate fault that needed to be fixed. Yoshi just heard some people crying about it and decided that he would ruin the game.

There's lots of examples like this.

- lol

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Belgianrofl?