The real reason you're mad about Anima

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I must say I prefer the combat in this game to most MMO's. I am not a huge fan of the 'action combat' in games like Tera, Blade and Soul and Wildstar. Guild Wars 2 was decent as well.

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As do I. I was overjoyed to learn this game had a 2.5 GCD as opposed to WoW's 1.0/1.5 GCD. To be completely honest, I actually prefer FFXI's non-GCD combat over FFXIV's, but there's enough in FFXIV that allows it to maintain its spot as my primary MMO (I'm still subscribed to FFXI though).

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I must say I prefer the combat in this game to most MMO's. I am not a huge fan of the 'action combat' in games like Tera, Blade and Soul and Wildstar. Guild Wars 2 was decent as well.

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I've been looking at Black Desert. The character creation for that game is so sweet. On the other hand I'm not really sure I'm crazy about the in game combat given it doesn't appear to be focused on group play. I love this game, it's animations and overall game play. That's not to say there isn't room for improvement but I've become addicted to it to say the least.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I've been looking at Black Desert. The character creation for that game is so sweet. On the other hand I'm not really sure I'm crazy about the in game combat given it doesn't appear to be focused on group play. I love this game, it's animations and overall game play. That's not to say there isn't room for improvement but I've become addicted to it to say the least.

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I wouldn't count on Black desert being good beyond eye candy. From what I have seen its going to be the typical Asian grinder with very little depth to it other than killing stuff......at a very low difficulty.

Also BDO is mainly a pvp centered game not PVE.

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Originally Posted by Riki_Namu

Simply put you wanted a hand out best of the best weapon.

If they had made it be like complete savage 10 and Thor EX 10 times for these 20 items people would have still complained as most of you can't even clear it 1 time lol.

Sorry you didn't get your hand out. Want the best in the game? Clear savage. Or do the grind for anima.

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I didn't know we elected a spokesperson for our community.

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Originally Posted by Riki_Namu

I wouldn't count on Black desert being good beyond eye candy. From what I have seen its going to be the typical Asian grinder with very little depth to it other than killing stuff......at a very low difficulty.

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I suspect you might be right.. I wasn't impressed with the gameplay but I'll download and try it as long as it's free to play. At the least I'll have fun with the character creator. :)

Personally not that mad myself. I started doing fates on my DRK around like 54, by the time I got to 60 (with light fate grinding, bout an hour or 2 a day) I got all 6 sets of crystals shortly after level 60 and got my DRK Relic, ran through all the Pre HW dungeons needed and going to start my HW runs tomorrow. Mix that with doing daily beast tribes, sure I may have another week or so but not going to kill myself and run Alex 20-30 times a day like some people have suggested.

For people who want the next quest more like the original relic quests, if we ask the devs very friendly maybe we get Hamlet defence and dungeon super-speedruns (clear it in 17 minutes or less for 100% keyitem drop chance, 1% drop chance if you need longer) back for the relics.

I respect people who got their relic still during 1.x
2.0 relic quest was just too easy and too fast (main reason why coil weapon got an ilevel upgrade some months later).

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Originally Posted by Felis

For people who want the next quest more like the original relic quests, if we ask the devs very friendly maybe we get Hamlet defence and dungeon super-speedruns (clear it in 17 minutes or less for 100% keyitem drop chance, 1% drop chance if you need longer) back for the relics.

I respect people who got their relic still during 1.x
2.0 relic quest was just too easy and too fast (main reason why coil weapon got an ilevel upgrade some months later).

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I mean Hamlet was terrible but the real meat of those relics was the job-specific leves and Ifrit Extreme. They actually should bring stuff like that back, even if it's for a separate quest from the anima weapons.

or maybe we would rather run coil 1-13, Ravana/Bismarck ex, Crystal Tower with a bit of grinding rather than kill Alex 800 times for a weapon that will be outdated by the time you get it.

Maybe throw in a 3.0 chimera hydra you know.. Something that isn't the exact same garbage we've been doing for over two years

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Originally Posted by Felis

For people who want the next quest more like the original relic quests, if we ask the devs very friendly maybe we get Hamlet defence and dungeon super-speedruns (clear it in 17 minutes or less for 100% keyitem drop chance, 1% drop chance if you need longer) back for the relics.

I respect people who got their relic still during 1.x
2.0 relic quest was just too easy and too fast (main reason why coil weapon got an ilevel upgrade some months later).

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Actually according to Yoshi too few people or the 2.0 relic because apparently Titan HM was too hard for %99 of the player base

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Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

Actually according to Yoshi too few people or the 2.0 relic because apparently Titan HM was too hard for %99 of the player base

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People used to pay for Titan HM carries, and yes, it was hard for many when people weren't over geared way back when.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

People used to pay for Titan HM carries, and yes, it was hard for many when people weren't over geared way back when.

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And that's the reason we're stuck with meaningless mind numbing content in %90 of the game:

Dungeons/tome
Diadem
Hunts
Relic

I see no difference in paying a crafter 20mil for relic items or paying a group 20mil for a boss clear.

Except the latter gives those with skill an actual opportunity for something fun.

I have played Chinese MMORPG that are less grind than this game

special challenge tasks for relic would be nice, like clearing a 24 man raid with nobody dying.

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Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

I see no difference in paying a crafter 20mil for relic items or paying a group 20mil for a boss clear.

Except the latter gives those with skill an actual opportunity for something fun.

I have played Chinese MMORPG that are less grind than this game

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Transfer to Ragnarok an buy the items for just 5m.

Can only transfer 1m ;)

The only thing I'm disappointed in is it's late arrival combined with the amount of time to acquire it. It really should have just dropped in 3.1 like they planned.

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Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

I see no difference in paying a crafter 20mil for relic items or paying a group 20mil for a boss clear.

Except the latter gives those with skill an actual opportunity for something fun.

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So helping someone for free and see them happy afterwards is not fun?

As long as people bring me the materials I'm crafting the items for free, just makes me happy:o

I have multiple A4S weapons and finished my Bard Anima in 10 days. I was hoping the Anima Relic quest would be more mentally stimulating, but I knew deep in my heart it would just be an inane grind of old content like before.

I do not blame others for being turned off by the current Anima quest. I am almost on my way to completing a second Anima. The Anima quest is still not fun to do a second time. :p

Maybe SE should bring back Hamlet for the next Relic step. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

People used to pay for Titan HM carries, and yes, it was hard for many when people weren't over geared way back when.

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The real issue, even shows today, is that people don't know how to dodge AOEs, even unsycn'd in Hard and Extreme you still see a majority of people go flying off, only difference is that being over geared we can go on without the extra help. My personal killer was the group AOEs that popped

How DARE people want to have fun playing a videogame instead of doing the exact same dumb and mindlessly boring grind again.

Y'know.... everyone is calling this thread bait but....

He's not wrong, y'know?

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Originally Posted by HorseBoots

Y'know.... everyone is calling this thread bait but....

He's not wrong, y'know?

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And how is that?

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Originally Posted by Alahra

You apparently missed a lot of posts, as there was a lot of outcry about how long the grind was and how casual players couldn't possibly finish the weapon before 3.2, and so on. >.>

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Those complaints, once again, were not about the grind itself though. The point of that argument was that if you can't finish the relic before 3.2 (which you won't without doing all of your roulettes and beast tribes almost every day) then the relic is entirely pointless as there will be more powerful weapons available for a fraction of the effort in 3.2. If this quest had been introduced around the time Alex Savage released then there wouldn't be an issue. The problem is that for those that finish it in good time the weapon will see pathetically little use before it gets replaced, and for everyone else (which will be most players) they'll never actually get to make use of it.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

And how is that?

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The large amount of work required to complete this relic stage is the compromise to get a weapon comparable with the raid weapons. The amount of collective time a team of 8 has to put into raiding to get 1 (technically 2) raid weapons is still far greater than that of one player grinding out their anima. That's even considering some people who will just end up doing roulettes and beast tribe quests every day. People can always just wait it out until the nerf this stage anyway, when they move onto the next stage of tombstone currency you can be assured that those unidentifiables will not be as expensive with Eso.

I'd doubt the next stage will be as grind heavy, as they are giving raid weapons that extra 5 ilvl again, so they don't have to balance that line again. It would still baffle me over how they handled raid weapon ilvl if they didn't make it clear that they decided to throw away years of development experience and feedback to make the worst raid this game has seen.

The real issue at hand here is simply the decision to stagger this quest's release until 3.15 to make that particular mini-patch feel more exciting than just like 4 unrelated fluff quests. Which makes the grind even harder to swallow considering that by the time you would get it after working at your own pace you only have a handful of weeks before they already release an arsenal of better weapons, and having to wait until even later to get a new stage thanks to the decision to also stagger the next release too. Which is overall dumb, they could easily add a new stage to work toward to make it at least comparable with whatever the mid-raid weapon will be.

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Originally Posted by Rhaja

Actually after having started it I don't mind the relic on bit. Log on for a couple hours, play a sound track while having a laugh with random players (which has been the best part), and eventually a cool weapon for my DRK.

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This post is the reason I'm constantly telling myself the game is missing something. Nothing wrong with making the game fun for yourself by socializing. But that tells me also the game alone is not enough on it's own to retain your attention or give you satisfaction that you just find music or force fun out of it by being social. In which you could be social about anything. Being friendly at work can make work fun.

I'm not complaining about relic FYI. Just the mentality this game forced on people.

As others have said, the time is not the problem, but the fact that the patch was delayed and then revealed to be the same old grind as before and this was right off the rise in complaints that 3.0 was just 2.0 rereborn.

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Originally Posted by HorseBoots

The large amount of work required to complete this relic stage is the compromise to get a weapon comparable with the raid weapons. The amount of collective time a team of 8 has to put into raiding to get 1 (technically 2) raid weapons is still far greater than that of one player grinding out their anima. That's even considering some people who will just end up doing roulettes and beast tribe quests every day. People can always just wait it out until the nerf this stage anyway, when they move onto the next stage of tombstone currency you can be assured that those unidentifiables will not be as expensive with Eso.

I'd doubt the next stage will be as grind heavy, as they are giving raid weapons that extra 5 ilvl again, so they don't have to balance that line again. It would still baffle me over how they handled raid weapon ilvl if they didn't make it clear that they decided to throw away years of development experience and feedback to make the worst raid this game has seen.

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It's obvious who hasn't actually read the thread when the majority of replies have been pointing out that the grind isn't what people have been complaining about only for you to come in and talk about the grind... You and the OP are totally off the mark as the grind itself was NEVER the problem with this relic. The problem was the completely unimaginative way the grind was implemented coupled with a release timing that had people forced to grind stuff they'd already been grinding for the past six months, for a weapon that will be replaced only a month after obtaining it. It's not how long it takes; it's that it's just not worth the effort given that most will never make much use of the weapon before it's obsolete.

If we have to go to loads of effort to get a raid tier weapon then why didn't we get to do it AT THE SAME TIME as people were bashing their heads against Alex Savage? And don't start making arguments about it stepping on the toes of raiders, because then your argument about the grind having to be comparable to savage no longer holds up.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Then just wait a patch or two 'til it's outdated and laugh at the people who actually bothered to make an effort for it.

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Just don't make effort for anything, just do your hildebrand quests. Don't farm eso because next patch we'll laugh at you. Don't bother with savage cause next patch we'll laugh at you for making effort....
You laugh for 1 day while those who made effort laugh at you for 6 months. /cheers

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Snip.

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Because they've literally never had their relic weapon be on-par with the current raid tier at release, at most you can have it maybe a step or two behind it. The closest it ever got was having Zeta weapons be ilvl125 at launch of 2.4, making them slightly better than unupgraded mid-raid weapons.

I'll completely agree that the timing of the release was the poor decision cherry on the poor decision cake, but this game has seen nothing but poor decisions for the past 6 months.

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Originally Posted by Melch

Just don't make effort for anything, just do your hildebrand quests. Don't farm eso because next patch we'll laugh at you. Don't bother with savage cause next patch we'll laugh at you for making effort....
You laugh for 1 day while those who made effort laugh at you for 6 months. /cheers

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What did I just read? lol

I m mad, because SE didnt learned from mistakes and just gave us the same uncreative, grindy and absolutely lame questline, like it was with zodiac.

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Originally Posted by HorseBoots

Because they've literally never had their relic weapon be on-par with the current raid tier at release, at most you can have it maybe a step or two behind it. The closest it ever got was having Zeta weapons be ilvl125 at launch of 2.4, making them slightly better than unupgraded mid-raid weapons.

I'll completely agree that the timing of the release was the poor decision cherry on the poor decision cake, but this game has seen nothing but poor decisions for the past 6 months.

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Zeta was I135 and bis for a decent while actually.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

I m mad, because SE didnt learned from mistakes and just gave us the same uncreative, grindy and absolutely lame questline, like it was with zodiac.

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If they wanted a way to disgust people from doing old content they couldn't have done it better.
If they wanted people to grind and having fun at the same time this is the 2nd big fail of the late 2015 with Diadem.

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Originally Posted by Jamillion

Zeta was I135 and bis for a decent while actually.

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Zeta became I135 February 24th 2015, 4 days under 4 months after the release of The Final Coil of Bahamut and it's ilvl135 Dreadwyrm weapons. My point was that they usually stagger the final upgrade for that ilvl tier until a good couple months after the raid has been released.

You had Zodiacs start in 2.2, and at launch, they got to ilvl100, a tier under upgraded mid-raid weapons. It took until 2.28 for them to come up to par with upgraded mid-raid, but were overall better thanks to customizable stats. Those same weapons didn't become ilvl115 until 2.38, which made them on par with raid weapons for about a month and a half until 2.4 came along.

If you actually look at how the relic quest-line progressed throughout ARR, the timing of each tier of release in tandem with how old the raid tier is it's almost 1:1.

Now really, what makes this grind harder to swallow is thanks to the fact that we have 5 ILVLs less to play with than back in A Realm Reborn. If Gordian weapons were 5 ivls higher than they are now, as they should have been, than the final step of Anima could have easily been separated into two parts and split between 3.1 and 3.15. In the perfect world where Gordian weapons were ilvl 215, you could have had a step with half the grind at 3.1 to bring the weapons up to 210, and then in 3.15 have the second half of the grind in place to finally bring them up to ilvl215. This would have also allowed the grind to be spread across more of the game, revitalizing more queues for dead content. If you think about it, as of right now you are almost doing what would have been two full steps of progression for a Zodiac weapon at once for the final step in this tier of Anima.

The Gordian excuse is weak on SE's part. If they didn't want to raise the ilvl of Gordian weapons like they did last time in 2.1 with Allagan weapons then what was stopping them from having the Relic max out at i205, then bumped up to i210 later on, like they did with Nexus?

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

The Gordian excuse is weak on SE's part. If they didn't want to raise the ilvl of Gordian weapons like they did last time in 2.1 with Allagan weapons then what was stopping them from having the Relic max out at i205, then bumped up to i210 later on, like they did with Nexus?

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Probably because we're projected to get 3.2 some time in February, so there's not exactly that much time to play with. As for why they can't just raise the ilvl of the Gordian weapons, that could probably be attributed to the fact that you need a Gobdip to upgrade Esoteric weapons, which also only drops off A4S, which would make upgraded Eso weapons essentially a 2nd raid weapon. You would have to either up Eso, which they wont, or put Gobdip somewhere earlier, which they didn't want to do.

Not to mention, if they maxed relic at 205 and then up to 210, why would you initally bother when you could just get a Thordan weapon in about a night of grinding after you learned the fight.

You can probably blame just about every single problem with this game right now to Gordias Savage, the dev team has pretty much pegged it as the cardinal sin of FFXIV with how hard they threw it under a hoard of buses last live letter.

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Not to mention, if they maxed relic at 205 and then up to 210, why would you initally bother when you could just get a Thordan weapon in about a night of grinding after you learned the fight.

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If Relic had been released in 3.1 (or even 3.0, since there's no reason for the i170 step at least to have been delayed), then you make Thordan drop a different reward (e.g. a i210 ring). In fact, most people were under the impression that Thordan wouldn't drop weapons at all (or certainly not i205) because of the Relic (as was claimed) being available.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

Snip.

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Honestly, I'd put money down that the original plan was to make Thordan drop a ilvl200 weapon, and be an overall easier fight with a bunch of the fat chewed off, but instead choose to up the difficulty and offer an ilvl205 weapon to help band-aid midcore groups that couldn't meet A3S's DPS check. Too little too late when a majority of the midcore raiding scene has already abandoned Savage and better weapons still doesn't help the fact that the latter half of Savage are bad fights on top of being hard fights.

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Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

And that's the reason we're stuck with meaningless mind numbing content in %90 of the game:

Dungeons/tome
Diadem
Hunts
Relic

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I enjoy the game. I don't find the content boring or mind numbing. I always have something to do and I'd be a bit embarrassed to share just how much time I play this game but way too much. Sorry you do. Relative to Anima i have my Hvergelmir and am working now on my WHM staff.