Please don't join endgame content with a job you dont know how to play

Well define end game? Anything that is lvl 60 is considered endgame this includes dungeons, raids, primals, hunts and diadem. So basically what you are trying to say is that you don't want other players to practice on other jobs that they don't know how to use... A dummy doesn't do squat except help train muscle memory but not everyone can learn that way. I know several players that are very exceptional at any job they touch but rarely ever touched a dummy. TO each their own......

The best way for me to learn a job is to simply que the heck up and start making mistakes so I can learn what not to do.

Thordan Ex Farm. With randoms. Yeah, I know what you think. But still...

I have no problem with people who stuck at 1% but want to farm it. But I have a big problem with those tards who failed so hard in playing in their own class. To be more concrete:

- DPS: Damage below Main Tank, activate the wrong buffs (Blood for Blood)
- Healer: Full Mana, Group or Tank died, forgot Eye of the Dragon
- Tanks: Unable to provoke the right add or forgot defensive cooldowns on Spear

I dont get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

Was looking forward to an engaging relic quest like 2.0
Have not played since the first week Anima was released.

Have completely given up on this game. Not throwing my money at it any more.

I want the raids made easier. Not 24 man easy or Alex normal easy but easier. Ravana EX difficulty. I dont raid because %90 of the player base can\\'t even complete core content (Ravana EX).

I am not doing a static bashing my head into a boss for months because 1 or 2 guys can't get it or people get fatigued.

The difficulty curve is stupid.

Nothing in this game encourages people to learn their job or boss mechanics (Yay top end time gear for clearing dungeons you can do blind).

I give up on the community and this game. The devs could very easily encourage all these scrubs to get better but then they're scared they would lose their subs.

---

Wha... Ravana is easier than either of those (it was also released first and thus requires less gear to clear). Are you mad that you can't do easier content or harder content? Also the first relic quest was not difficult either. Just comparing mechanical difficulty, the first 3 primals are a lot easier than the 24 man raids we have now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

I want the raids made easier. Not 24 man easy or Alex normal easy but easier. Ravana EX difficulty. I dont raid because %90 of the player base can\\'t even complete core content (Ravana EX).

---

How do you figure that Ravana EX is easier than Alex Normal and Void Ark? o.O

It may have been released first, but mechanically I'd say it's more complex.

Quote:

---

I give up on the community and this game. The devs could very easily encourage all these scrubs to get better but then they're scared they would lose their subs.

---

mrw someone that's asking for across the board nerfs calls everyone else scrubs:

http://media2.giphy.com/media/Fml0fgAxVx1eM/giphy.gif

I'm not sure how many WHM I had to explain how medica II worked back in the day.

Did I care, No... When I do END GAME... I don't pug/PF. I only do it with people I know their skill level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

It is endgame, considering that it requires quite a bit of coordination to actually complete. It doesn't suddenly stop being endgame simply because it's completed more often now due to people having become familiar with it's mechanics. It requires you to reach level 60, acquire an item level, reach DPS checks, and learn it's mechanics. It may not be hardest endgame content, but it is still endgame.

---

BCoB would also still be considered end game under those parameters. I don't care how over geared you are T9 will ruin your shit if you don't know the mechanics. Even the slightest screw up can have ruinous consequences. That being said I find it laughable that you would consider Alexander NM professional end game content.

Im more confused how someone gets to level 60 and doesn't understand their class at all.

How do dragoons/bards get to 60 and not know what Heavy thrust/straight shot is/does?
How on earth do you see BLMs still spamming fire 3 at 60?

Its all well and good not being experts at a class and trying to learn it at 60 somewhat. But not even knowing the basics of a class at 60 is insulting those you are in the instance with.

At level 60, Ice Mages are still a problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

...
(edit: And to clarify, no. The regen aspected Helios does not stack with another Ast's)

---

I know it used to stack...

But I've been playing an alt on Balmung and haven't been on my AST for a while now...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrea

Im more confused how someone gets to level 60 and doesn't understand their class at all.

How do dragoons/bards get to 60 and not know what Heavy thrust/straight shot is/does?
How on earth do you see BLMs still spamming fire 3 at 60?

Its all well and good not being experts at a class and trying to learn it at 60 somewhat. But not even knowing the basics of a class at 60 is insulting those you are in the instance with.

---

Because it's easy to level. EASY. Heck, the first dungeon I ran with my SCH, I had forgotten to do any class quests beyond level 40. We still completed it with no problem. Let's be real, leveling is easy and teaches you very little about what to do once you hit 60. It teaches you nothing about how your class stacks with others of the same type (except, in some cases, for dps classes who do have some interaction with other dps classes in dungeons). I don't do "end game" stuff. I'm still learning my "main" and don't pretend to be an expert at all (tho if I do ever decide I want to do those things, I would do alot of research on the intricacies of the classes). But I can tell you right now that I could easily get to 60 on any dps class and not know the "right" way to do everything.

How do players get to 60 and not know how to use all their skills? EASY. You don't have to use all the skills to beat all the dungeons along the way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaeIsMean

How do players get to 60 and not know how to use all their skills? EASY. You don't have to use all the skills to beat all the dungeons along the way.

---

Maybe im expecting too much from people then to read what a skill does when they unlock one.

I can only hope once they get kicked one too many times they actually take time and look at what they are doing wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrea

Maybe im expecting too much from people then to read what a skill does when they unlock one.

I can only hope once they get kicked one too many times they actually take time and look at what they are doing wrong.

---

It's easy to read an ability, understand how it works, and still not use it, especially if it's not really needed to "get the job done." It's also easy to know how to heal as a solo healer, and not know at all how to do it in a situation with multiple healers. I have only healed on my WHM, and assumed all my stuff stacks with other WHM, and didn't really change the way I healed in a full party vs a lite party. If you are getting mad at another player for overwriting your things, instead of assuming that they're too dumb to know any better, maybe you can suggest splitting duties. For all you know, they know what they're doing, and are assuming you're the moron who doesn't understand that your stuff doesn't stack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

I have nothing against being new to a job, or content. We've all been there, we've all been new at some point - but please, before you join any endgame content, have a basic grasp of your job so as to not grief other players. /snip.

---

I agree with the idea BUT you can know the class and still have issues, largely because of the dynamics the DF brings
1. Some fights have more than one strat. You know strat A but the majority of the group uses B?
2. If you are a tank you can look clueless because a healer and/or dps was clueless and vice versa for everyone else.
3. Poor overall coordination.

I mean if the run starts with 2 people saying "Hello!" And then a tank, or even better a dps because 5 seconds was too long for them, just Leroy in, can we actually expect any coordination?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheUltimateSeph

BCoB would also still be considered end game under those parameters. I don't care how over geared you are T9 will ruin your shit if you don't know the mechanics. Even the slightest screw up can have ruinous consequences. That being said I find it laughable that you would consider Alexander NM professional end game content.

---

Even in t9, with a full party of decently geared level 60s you can skip almost all of the complicated mechanics to that fight. Heck, you can even skip dive bombs entirely! The only coordination it takes is meteor placements. Which is probably the easiest shit in the world, considering that a healer is capable of tanking their ad. There's no worry for dd checks, or anything. When t9 was first released it was extremely hard, and took players months to complete. I ran in there with newbies and cleared it in a half an hour because the phases were being skipped so quickly. Almost all previous content can be cleared with relative ease unsynced, with minimum coordination because phases are skipped entirely. Heck, in most cases a healer hardly actually has to throw out anything, a fairy can sometimes heal the party while the sch dds. Mechanics aren't the only prerequisite if they can be skipped entirely.

I wouldn't consider any level 50 content endgame, merely because it is level 50 and requires little to any gear or skill to gimp it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Astral145

Well define end game? Anything that is lvl 60 is considered endgame this includes dungeons, raids, primals, hunts and diadem. So basically what you are trying to say is that you don't want other players to practice on other jobs that they don't know how to use... A dummy doesn't do squat except help train muscle memory but not everyone can learn that way. I know several players that are very exceptional at any job they touch but rarely ever touched a dummy. TO each their own......

The best way for me to learn a job is to simply que the heck up and start making mistakes so I can learn what not to do.

---

You're splitting hairs here. It's abundantly clear that I'm not referring to content like dungeons, hunts and diadem where 90% of the time no one's taking any real damage, and can be sustained with one medica II. I'm referring to content where players have to actively concentrate and use their CDs in order to complete the Duty. For instance, I have dragoon leveled up to 60, but have NO idea how it works, the combos chains, or what stats to stack on it. Am I going to join Thordan ex to learn? Or Ravana ex where dps checks are needed? No, I'm not going to do that to a team of players, especially without warning. Perhaps I'd do it in a level 50 unsynced primal run, where even the lowest dps would have been considered high end during ARR, but not in level 60 difficult content that requires me to know what I'm doing.

But even if I was a big jerk, and decided to join a Thordan ex, or Ravana ex on my dragoon. You can bet your bottom dollar that I would do some research on my job, read the skills and chains to do combos before entering. It's called common decency, and respect for the other party members who are there to clear the content. I don't think that's asking too much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

But to simply throw on a weapon because it got defaulted into your armory because no one wanted it and then trying it out without any idea of how it works is just going to cause a lot of grief among others who you may join with.

---

What game are you playing? They still have to level the job to 60 and have the ilvl req to join end game content. They cant just throw the ast weapon on and be an ast at 60. Contradicted yourself a bit there. Perhaps when they read effect cannot be stacked they thought it meant with their own skills. Because WHM can stack regens.... Perhaps instead of raging you should explain to them that they should be in NOCT while you cover the other.

Don't worry I've stopped doing endgame completely here because darn being good at FFXIV just ain't in the cards for me.

Because Yoshi himself said that they will never change the relic quests because in 2.0 apparently so few people actually got the relic because most of the player base really is THAT BAD.

Yes, Ravana is mechanically more complex than Alex normal mode. Try running a Ravana EX in DF. Hell most PFs fail with people who are over geared as hell.

I'm mad that I can't do hard content without spending hours upon hours upon hours because 6/8 of the party utterly fails mechanics.

I would prefer easier mechanics so that the scrubs can clear content and I'm not stuck with them failing for months/weeks. Either that or SE needs to stop punishing the entire party for others mistakes.

I honestly don't even give a shit about challenge or accomplishment or bragging rights any more. I just want to have fun and wiping Ravana EX 50 times with people in i200 is not fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

Even in t9, with a full party of decently geared level 60s you can skip almost all of the complicated mechanics to that fight. Heck, you can even skip dive bombs entirely! The only coordination it takes is meteor placements. Which is probably the easiest shit in the world, considering that a healer is capable of tanking their ad. There's no worry for dd checks, or anything. When t9 was first released it was extremely hard, and took players months to complete. I ran in there with newbies and cleared it in a half an hour because the phases were being skipped so quickly. Almost all previous content can be cleared with relative ease unsynced, with minimum coordination because phases are skipped entirely. Heck, in most cases a healer hardly actually has to throw out anything, a fairy can sometimes heal the party while the sch dds. Mechanics aren't the only prerequisite if they can be skipped entirely.

I wouldn't consider any level 50 content endgame, merely because it is level 50 and requires little to any gear or skill to gimp it.

---

You'd be surprised how hard meteor placement can be, especially with inexperienced players. Your groups may have had an easy enough time with it but from personal experience if even one person doesn't fully understand the concept it's a wipe. I was the main reason my group wiped when I did it unsynced for the first time and I ended up leaving. I wasn't the only one screwing it up either. I understand the concept now but that was after practice and watching vids, which watching vids should never be expected of someone btw.

I honestly don't even give a shit about challenge or accomplishment or bragging rights any more. I just want to have fun and wiping Ravana EX 50 times with people in i200 is not fun and neither is spending 100+ hours (the length of a full release game!) grinding menial tasks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

I honestly don't even give a shit about challenge or accomplishment or bragging rights any more. I just want to have fun and wiping Ravana EX 50 times with people in i200 is not fun.

---

So run Sastasha normal mode, problem solved \o/

As for the OP, I think it boils more down to 1. know basics of your job and 2. make a learning PF if you are not comfortable in an endgame environment with that job yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaurie

So run Sastasha normal mode, problem solved \o/

As for the OP, I think it boils more down to 1. know basics of your job and 2. make a learning PF if you are not comfortable in an endgame environment with that job yet.

---

You missed the point about spending 100+ hours grinding menial tasks (the length of an actual full release game) not being fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

You missed the point about spending 100+ hours grinding menial tasks (the length of an actual full release game) not being fun.

---

I didn't say to run it more than once >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riki_Namu

What game are you playing? They still have to level the job to 60 and have the ilvl req to join end game content. They cant just throw the ast weapon on and be an ast at 60. Contradicted yourself a bit there. Perhaps when they read effect cannot be stacked they thought it meant with their own skills. Because WHM can stack regens.... Perhaps instead of raging you should explain to them that they should be in NOCT while you cover the other.

---

Because FATE grinding requires a player to know their job right? You know how many players are out there who FATE grinded from 50-60 and literally have no idea how the job operates? And never even completed the job quests for all the skills? Just because you got to 60 doesn't mean you know how the job works. So no, I didn't contradict anything.

And who said I was raging on anyone? If you read my comments in this thread, I did stop the group to calmly explain to them how AST works, and explained how the skills worked. But I don't feel that it was right for them to join endgame content without any idea of how their job works, it's disrespectful to the other players who are there to clear the content. I have a level 60 Dragoon in tome gear, but I have no idea how it works, or how the chains are done -- am I going to joina Thordan ex so I can learn? No, I would not. And I certainly wouldn't be surprised if I pissed a lot of people off or got kicked really fast for being clueless the entire run. Perhaps you should be less presumptious and actually get an idea of what this thread is about before hopping on your white horse to defend a cause that was never the problem in the first place.

Make the content easier (not too easy) and everybody wins. Because right now, for a long time since coil, this game is not fun and nothing in it is fun. Everything is mindless grinding or face bashing insanely hard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheUltimateSeph

You'd be surprised how hard meteor placement can be, especially with inexperienced players. Your groups may have had an easy enough time with it but from personal experience if even one person doesn't fully understand the concept it's a wipe. I was the main reason my group wiped when I did it unsynced for the first time and I ended up leaving. I wasn't the only one screwing it up either. I understand the concept now but that was after practice and watching vids, which watching vids should never be expected of someone btw.

---

Even if half the party dies, and there's 1 DD and 2 tanks and a healer you can clear T9. That's how gimped it is to level 60s. Even if you know all the mechanics to Ravana or Thordan you can still wipe, even with a full party. One mistep, one missed heal, or forgotten provoke and it's gg. It takes actual effort and coorindation to complete. For t9, even with minimum knowledge of the fight it can be cleared. That would not be something I'd say falls under endgame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

Make the content easier (not too easy) and everybody wins. Because right now, for a long time since coil, this game is not fun and nothing in it is fun. Everything is mindless grinding or face bashing insanely hard.

---

I agree that current stuff is less fun, but the difficulty level of Ravana is not one of the problems. I'd just like to see more dynamic encounters, rather than scripted ones. The issue with Rav is it's a very scripted fight. Add some AI or something maybe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaurie

So run Sastasha normal mode, problem solved \o/

As for the OP, I think it boils more down to 1. know basics of your job and 2. make a learning PF if you are not comfortable in an endgame environment with that job yet.

---

I agree. I don't mind if a player doesn't know every nuance or strategy to their job (Like which skills compliment, and go well with each other.) but if you didn't even take the 2 seconds to read your skills than please, don't join endgame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

Even if half the party dies, and there's 1 DD and 2 tanks and a healer you can clear T9. That's how gimped it is to level 60s. Even if you know all the mechanics to Ravana or Thordan you can still wipe, even with a full party. One mistep, one missed heal, or forgotten provoke and it's gg. It takes actual effort and coorindation to complete. For t9, even with minimum knowledge of the fight it can be cleared. That would not be something I'd say falls under endgame.

---

Well all I have left to contribute is to say if you don't like inexperienced players in your end game content don't use the Duty Finder. That should be common sense. If you use DF expect the absolute worst, because you WILL get it. PF is there for people like you who don't want to deal with this.

Edit: Yeah T9 takes coordination* and effort to clear too. Unsynced at level 60 may not require as much effort but coordination is still needed. Besides if you are syncing to clear either ARR raids or HW raids (Savage Alex, normal is a joke) both require a lot of effort so don't try to distract from the fact that according to your stated parameters (aside from needing level 60 to participate) that ARR end content no longer qualifies as being end game because you can gimp it. That's a pretty weak excuse.

I am sorry you had that experience OP, like some of the others posts have said it doesn't start at just Endgame content..it's throughout the entire game.

there is one major thing I've noticed so far and that is a FC is nothing more than a place to gather and chill out. In 1.0 when we had to run along a dungeon to get our AF, or farm Garuda..take out the White Raven, we played with a normal set of people most of the time. This encouraged my LS at the time to help each other out and people learned their jobs. Even in 2.0 I had an astounding group of people, for the most part, who encouraged training for those who needed to get to a certain spot. The leader at the time was a wonderful, and well level headed person who encouraged the higher ups and help the others perform better but in a good way. I became better because of that.

As time went on and as we hit into 3.0 my other groups of people became more of a place to hang and say hi. Sure we craft for each other and if someone needed it, they will gear up what is needed to help people. My FC now are made of truly outstanding and helpful people. The game though doesn't encourage much interaction with FC members as it use to or like in the forbidden game FFXI. Maybe that's the problem. Where people would have to FATE grind if the XP parties provided something could do and run over and over, learning their job. For a MMO, I really feel like I'm doing it alone a lot of the time.

Still, very fun game..I adore FFXIV and appreciate the beauty of it all.

Please don't join endgame with a bad attitude and be so generally annoying in voice chat that everyone mutes you and eventually ejects you from the group entirely. At the end of the day, people play the game to have fun, and not be talked down to. Regardless of how wide a gap you perceive between your skill level and other players, it's still a team effort, and learning will always be part of that.

If a player says its their first time doing something on a certain job, I will give them the benefit of doubt, I main SCH but my very first clear of A1S was as a PLD, the WAR was my friend who guided me on voip on when to use CD's and it went very well, though my damage was a bit on the low side (getting better now that I am getting the hang of the fight) Hell my first clear of T9 was as a MNK, I am not a very good MNK, for the entire run, I was pretty much panic slamming the keys and we actually beat it, I was just as surprised as everyone else (at least I wasn't lowest DPS)

As long as you know what your role is and can execute it properly, you won't hear any objections from me, I won't tolerate people looking for a cheap carry though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

I know it used to stack...

But I've been playing an alt on Balmung and haven't been on my AST for a while now...

---

It absolutely DOES stack and just goes to show that maybe the OP should learn their job a little better before pointing fingers.

Before the AST buffs, two diurnal sects was preferable to ever using nocturnal. Noct used to be so useless that no one ever used it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SnugglesD

It absolutely DOES stack and just goes to show that maybe the OP should learn their job a little better before pointing fingers.

Before the AST buffs, two diurnal sects was preferable to ever using nocturnal. Noct used to be so useless that no one ever used it.

---

Aspected Benefic and Aspected Helios from two Diurnal Sect AST will overwrite each other, not stack like Regen and Medica II will do from two different WHM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SnugglesD

It absolutely DOES stack and just goes to show that maybe the OP should learn their job a little better before pointing fingers.

Before the AST buffs, two diurnal sects was preferable to ever using nocturnal. Noct used to be so useless that no one ever used it.

---

The irony.

Aspected Benefic, and Aspected Helios absolutely DOES NOT stack. Goes to show that maybe you should learn the job a little better before pointing fingers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheUltimateSeph

Well all I have left to contribute is to say if you don't like inexperienced players in your end game content don't use the Duty Finder. That should be common sense. If you use DF expect the absolute worst, because you WILL get it. PF is there for people like you who don't want to deal with this.

Edit: Yeah T9 takes coordination* and effort to clear too. Unsynced at level 60 may not require as much effort but coordination is still needed. Besides if you are syncing to clear either ARR raids or HW raids (Savage Alex, normal is a joke) both require a lot of effort so don't try to distract from the fact that according to your stated parameters (aside from needing level 60 to participate) that ARR end content no longer qualifies as being end game because you can gimp it. That's a pretty weak excuse.

---

I think the fact that the content isn't level 60 is a pretty large factor in this. It's not distracting from anything, the content is gimped severely and requires very little coordination when you're level 60. Especially if you do know the fight, then there's no challenge at all. It seems like you're more focused on trying to split hairs and argue semantics, than make any valid point.

secondly, I'm not referring to DF exclusively, the event that elicited this thread was an encounter in PF

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

I think the fact that the content isn't level 60 is a pretty large factor in this. It's not distracting from anything, the content is gimped severely and requires very little coordination when you're level 60. Especially if you do know the fight, then there's no challenge at all. It seems like you're more focused on trying to split hairs and argue semantics, than make any valid point.

secondly, I'm not referring to DF exclusively, the event that elicited this thread was an encounter in PF

---

You are right. I am so sorry. I totally should be making a valid point here, like how the vast majority of your target audience for this thread who will see it and care is negligible at best. I understand the desire to vent and I have been in tons of horrible DF groups and a few horrible PF groups but I don't come on the forums and make a thread asking people to not do something because it interferes with my gameplay. That time could be better spent teaching others how to play, learning how to play myself or finding threads like this to respond to. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheUltimateSeph

You are right. I am so sorry. I totally should be making a valid point here, like how the vast majority of your target audience for this thread who will see it and care is negligible at best. I understand the desire to vent and I have been in tons of horrible DF groups and a few horrible PF groups but I don't come on the forums and make a thread asking people to not do something because it interferes with my gameplay. That time could be better spent teaching others how to play, learning how to play myself or finding threads like this to respond to. :P

---

To vent? This wasn't about venting, this was about giving advice to people who join endgame content with jobs they don't know, and usually it ends up with them getting flamed and kicked. Your whole argument seems to hinder the predicate that I'm some sort of hot-headed troll who explodes on anyone who pisses me off, though the irony is that I actually had to stop our whole raid to explain how AST works, which pissed a lot of people off. It's not that it interferes with just my gameplay, it makes everyone's gameplay overall unpleasant. The person doing it usually gets harassed, and everyone else feels like they have to carry dead weight, which isn't fair to them.

You're just very presumptious, and honestly, making an argument based solely off assumptions just sort of makes you look like an ass.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

To vent? This wasn't about venting, this was about giving advice to people who join endgame content with jobs they don't know, and usually it ends up with them getting flamed and kicked. Your whole argument seems to hinder the predicate that I'm some sort of hot-headed troll who explodes on anyone who pisses me off, though the irony is that I actually had to stop our whole raid to explain how AST works, which pissed a lot of people off. It's not that it interferes with just my gameplay, it makes everyone's gameplay overall unpleasant. The person doing it usually gets harassed, and everyone else feels like they have to carry dead weight, which isn't fair to them.

You're just very presumptious, and honestly, making an argument based solely off assumptions just sort of makes you look like an ass.

---

Now who's making assumptions? I never said or implied that you are a hothead troll who explodes on everyone who pisses you off. The whole point of my last post was that most of the players this thread was aimed at probably don't read the forums so you're better off just telling them in game. There have been numerous threads started lately that seem to follow this trend of something something about bad or inexperienced players which is frankly getting kinda old. At least the Tales from the DF thread is kinda fun cause it's just peoples stories and good ones are mixed in.
NB4 "If you don't like it don't read it and everyone has the right to voice their opinions in this open forum". I'm aware.