Not the time to charge, cya in 2013...

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Originally Posted by December

I don't think they have any right to charge us to play a beta. It's been a year and still no search function, no useable LFG system, and no mail. The game is a wasteland outside of chatting linkshells. Now that tons of people are going to quit, the game is going to become even more desolate. Why am I going to -pay- to play a game that's not even really ready?

I always thought to myself that they would only change when this theoretical 2.0 was released (and on PS3 too)... but to charge us for it one year ahead of time? I understand there are bills to pay, but SE really made a horrible game and deserve to pay the price. I still feel insulted that they even released the game in the first place.

I only log in to play around, check to see what's changed, and log out, and I'm sure at least 50% of the players are exactly like me (if not more).

Don't get me wrong, I had a huge smile on my face as I read through the announcement and saw the PDFs about 2.0... but I'm not paying for 1.9, or 1.20.

Unfortunately, they are probably making the wrong decision on behalf of the players. I already feel insulted -again-. For the entire 2012 I'm going to be pissed at them for not allowing the people who payed 50+ dollars for this garbage continue to see the updates that THEY OWE US first hand. Now I'm going to have to be a forum dweller.

TLDR: I feel insulted all over again and refuse to pay for beta, a bad beta at that.

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you have two choices....

dont get charged and the game will remain mostly the same
get charged and have this 2.0 thing happen

I am taking the gamble and going for broke.

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Originally Posted by December

I know I am tripple posting so bare with me.

The main reason I am posting this, is for the rare chance that I might change some of your minds into paying for this, and in the end SE doesn't get as much money per month.

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How does it feel to fight a losing battle?

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Go ahead and pay for an unfinished train wreck, I really don't care what -you- do. I'm just expressing how insulting it is to say "Hey, the game is like, 50% complete, but hey! Pay us and we'll make it better / complete!"

And by the way I'm not acting high and mighty. I'm trying to express how I feel. How is that acting high and mighty?

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Your opinion remains just that, an opinion. Fine, you don't find it worth playing or paying for . Good for you. You obviously don't speak for everyone else. Acting as if your opinion somehow constitues fact or logic is rather pretentious. Claiming those you share your opinion are the only ones "with a brain" is exactly how you are "acting all high and mighty." You're being arrogant. Stop pretending otherwise.

Personalty, I don't find the current state to be a "train wreck." You do. Who cares? The current state of the game is fun, and has plenty for me to do. More content is coming within a month or so, with more being added about every two months. That is worth sticking around for me (And apparently about 2/3rds of those on the forums).

Rant on, but you long ago passed just expressing a simple opinion.

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Originally Posted by December

No, because once again, you are missing the point. They have told us the game is not complete. They have said it's only 50% of what it should be. They are only charging for it now because they feel they can get away with it (that's just an opinion). How can you tell your customer base that it's going to be an entirely new game, inside and out, and then charge you to help them make the changes that should have been there from day one?

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What they say (about the content of the game, and not the game itself, and mind you, there's still going to be 1.20 before they start charging) is no matter. What matter is that the game is plenty enjoyable now, and there's nothing wrong in charging for an enjoyable product while providing constant updates.

It's actually way more enjoyable than many other games whose developers say that they're 100% complete.

It's not that we're missing the point. The problem is that you don't have one.

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Originally Posted by December

I know I am tripple posting so bare with me.

The main reason I am posting this, is for the rare chance that I might change some of your minds into paying for this, and in the end SE doesn't get as much money per month.

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So basically you're petitioning for them to have less money for future development. Yes, great idea.

Oh wait... We already knew your main reason. And that main reason is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

The trouble is 90% of these forums are complaint threads. Asking folks in game does not produce the same percentage of negative sentiment. Charging a fee will drastically reduce the amount of complaining. It will clear up space for folks to actually talk about things that are fun to talk about, you know like game mechanics and strategy.

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yes and they will stay complaint threads unfortunately. That's what most forums are really for, feedback and discussion. If SE didn't make such a bad game, maybe there wouldn't be as much complaining?

Also, there are still fan sites and other forum communities that I post on, where I can still talk about FFXIV, no matter that SE wants to shut out non-subscribers from their discussions (which I think is a bad idea anyway)

OMG, December doesn't even have a class to 15, why are we even bothering to reply. It takes like 30 minutes to get to 15.

December, do you work for MMORPG.com?

I agree, the only thing hey have left to do is add content to this game that's been out for a year. They've handled a ton of crap but as said above, you'll still have something to complain about.

I'm just glad I finally got my chocobo, heh!

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So basically you're petitioning for them to have less money for future development. Yes, great idea.

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Like I said, this isn't a charity.

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The main reason I am posting this, is for the rare chance that I might change some of your minds into paying for this, and in the end SE doesn't get as much money per month.

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What a childish statement. To what end? You honestly think if enough people don't come back that they will make the game free again? Why should they? At some point in time, they do need to start making some money off this game, especially if they want to pay all those people to continue to changing things around.

hey thanks for reminding me to cancel my wow account.

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Originally Posted by December

Go ahead and pay for an unfinished train wreck, I really don't care what -you- do. I'm just expressing how insulting it is to say "Hey, the game is like, 50% complete, but hey! Pay us and we'll make it better / complete!"

And by the way I'm not acting high and mighty. I'm trying to express how I feel. How is that acting high and mighty?

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How about being objective by telling us why we should feel unsatisfied just because you do, or you know, just admit it's only your own opinion instead of clinging onto it as if it's something more than subjective.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

OMG, December doesn't even have a class to 15, why are we even bothering to reply. It takes like 30 minutes to get to 15.

December, do you work for MMORPG.com?

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I think the argument has died out here anyway. We all obviously have differing opinions about what is and what is not considered a beta version of an MMORPG. They don't even have a test server, because we are the test servers.

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Originally Posted by AlexNiculaie

What a childish statement. To what end? You honestly think if enough people don't come back that they will make the game free again? Why should they? At some point in time, they do need to start making some money off this game, especially if they want to pay all those people to continue to changing things around.

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it may have come off as childish. I just think that a fail-game deserves to fail. If they want to try and make it up to us as players, and make the game better, I am all for it. I just won't be paying them to fix mistakes.

lol BYE, you wont be missed

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Originally Posted by December

Like I said, this isn't a charity.

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No. It's not. They're providing a product. Products are normally paid for.

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Originally Posted by December

it may have come off as childish. I just think that a fail-game deserves to fail. If they want to try and make it up to us as players, and make the game better, I am all for it. I just won't be paying them to fix mistakes.

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You need to grow up. Glad we won't be seeing you around much longer.

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Originally Posted by December

I think the argument has died out here anyway. We all obviously have differing opinions about what is and what is not considered a beta version of an MMORPG. They don't even have a test server, because we are the test servers.

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Opinion is irrelevant as to whether this game is in beta or not, it's not, the beta ended in Sept. Also, SE does have test servers, those test servers are running the new server software or did you not read the post on the front page?

OP claims they only log on once in a while for 5 mins to check thing out and 50% of ppl do like him. well if you don't play regular you won't be missed. but incase you think all think like you check out the numbers in this poll

Pay to Play Subscription - Cast your votes!

more than double say yes to nay

thinking about the roadmap and the fact that maybe in may 2013!!!! this game will be in good shape - better server, good, responsive ui, mailbox, delivery etc. etc., it really is more then a slap in the face to even think about having the community pay for the development.

So many ppl payed for the rushed, cheap, failed development in the first place by purchasing the game. then getting 200 EUR/dollar from every player til the final ps3 release on top of it? Unbelievable that SE has the nerve to do this. Honestly! Not even Apple would do this to his more then loyal/blind fans (and they are in a much better position).

Not to mention to have Yoshi post that the game is at like 50% of where it should be not long ago. Something really goes very wrong behind the walls of SE...

We already have to start over from dated to normal gear, former content is close to useless. Many very basic things are still not working. No F2P game would survive it.

YOU HAVE THE FANS!!!! Don't F** with them any further.

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Originally Posted by December

And yes, they do owe me. THEY OWE ME A $50 GAME. A game that is WORTH $50. Or have you forgotten that you BOUGHT a BETA? And now you feel it's right to charge for it?

EDIT: Don't act so high and mighty, by the way. just because you pay for something that I don't. it isn't a charity. They are a business, and they made a bad game. A game they admitted time and time again is not even close to complete. It's LOGICAL to assume that most people won't want to pay for a game that's not even fucking finished.

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You are not entitled to more than what they've given you. Which was a asinine amount of free months to play the game. You've been given way more than you put into the game financially. You were not entitled to any more free play months ago, but since the game was in such bad shape there was no choice, but to keep the free trial.

SE is now saying, "Are you a giver? Or are you a taker?" The players who have faith in their direction, have an ounce of empathy, or are not ungrateful a-holes will most likely pay to play soon. Not to mention that with the look of 2.0, this seems to be a pretty expensive task and the number of people we find working on this game plus the amount of work that is now being shown for the first time previously behind closed doors, you'd have to be an idiot to not understand why they need to start charging.

You think with all of that effort being put into the game that they would be okay with bringing in no revenue? Grow a brain.

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Originally Posted by December

I don't think they have any right to charge us to play a beta. It's been a year and still no search function, no useable LFG system, and no mail. The game is a wasteland outside of chatting linkshells. Now that tons of people are going to quit, the game is going to become even more desolate. Why am I going to -pay- to play a game that's not even really ready?

I always thought to myself that they would only change when this theoretical 2.0 was released (and on PS3 too)... but to charge us for it one year ahead of time? I understand there are bills to pay, but SE really made a horrible game and deserve to pay the price. I still feel insulted that they even released the game in the first place.

I only log in to play around, check to see what's changed, and log out, and I'm sure at least 50% of the players are exactly like me (if not more).

Don't get me wrong, I had a huge smile on my face as I read through the announcement and saw the PDFs about 2.0... but I'm not paying for 1.9, or 1.20.

Unfortunately, they are probably making the wrong decision on behalf of the players. I already feel insulted -again-. For the entire 2012 I'm going to be pissed at them for not allowing the people who payed 50+ dollars for this garbage continue to see the updates that THEY OWE US first hand. Now I'm going to have to be a forum dweller.

TLDR: I feel insulted all over again and refuse to pay for beta, a bad beta at that.

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tl;dr: bye bye~!
ts;dr: bye bye~!

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Opinion is irrelevant as to whether this game is in beta or not, it's not, the beta ended in Sept. Also, SE does have test servers, those test servers are running the new server software or did you not read the post on the front page?

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I get that they have inner-company test servers, or else they wouldn't be releasing anything. Normally, MMORPGs use a player ready test server to get feedback in real time, not after they release patches. I think that telling us the game is 50% of what they want it to be, is basically telling us it is a beta. Look at the radical changes coming in 2.0, you won't even be playing the same game a year from now.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

You are not entitled to more than what they've given you. Which was a asinine amount of free months to play the game. You've been given way more than you put into the game financially. You were not entitled to any more free play months ago, but since the game was in such bad shape there was no choice, but to keep the free trial.

SE is now saying, "Are you a giver? Or are you a taker?" The players who have faith in their direction, have an ounce of empathy, or are not ungrateful a-holes will most likely pay to play soon. Not to mention that with the look of 2.0, this seems to be a pretty expensive task and the number of people we find working on this game plus the amount of work that is now being shown for the first time previously behind closed doors, you'd have to be an idiot to not understand why they need to start charging.

You think with all of that effort being put into the game that they would be okay with bringing in no revenue? Grow a brain.

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You have to realize that I don't want hand outs. I want a good game. I've wanted a good game since one year ago. They have not delivered on that, and they have admitted it was not a good game. In the end, you disagree with me on the fact that I think SE deserves to pay for their mistakes. You seem to think -we- need to pay for their mistakes.

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Originally Posted by December

I get that they have inner-company test servers, or else they wouldn't be releasing anything. Normally, MMORPGs use a player ready test server to get feedback in real time, not after they release patches. I think that telling us the game is 50% of what they want it to be, is basically telling us it is a beta. Look at the radical changes coming in 2.0, you won't even be playing the same game a year from now.

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That still doesn't change the fact that we are playing the retail version of the game, not a beta. The fact is, you have no idea why they don't have public test servers, that's all speculation on your part. FFXI never had public test servers, and many other companies operate the same way. I test software for a living, and can tell you with 100% certainty that public test servers are not the norm.

...Keeping your lame arguments up is akin to trying to put 20 lbs of shit in a 10 lb bag.

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it may have come off as childish. I just think that a fail-game deserves to fail. If they want to try and make it up to us as players, and make the game better, I am all for it. I just won't be paying them to fix mistakes.

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::Shrug:: Well, that would be why you won't change minds. Telling people you think something is fail, when they obviously don't isn't going to convince anyone of anything. As for paying to fix mistakes, you understand that is exactly what a monthly pay to play subscription means, right? You pay so they can add new content, and continue adjusting the game world; periodically they will add additional features and areas to expand upon the game. MMO's aren't released in a finished state, just in a basic enough standing that players can begin. FFXIV has reached that state.

You can argue that you don't like what the game offers, and that's a respectable opinion. However, that monthly fee is every MMO's means of fixing problems, adding content and in general evolving over time.

2.0 hit the shelfs and 10 mins later a million troll's come on the forum to say its not worth the money.

just thought i would share the visions in my crystal ball :D

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Originally Posted by Kaida

Do we need another one of these?

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yes we do. ....

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Originally Posted by December

You have to realize that I don't want hand outs. I want a good game. I've wanted a good game since one year ago. They have not delivered on that, and they have admitted it was not a good game. In the end, you disagree with me on the fact that I think SE deserves to pay for their mistakes. You seem to think -we- need to pay for their mistakes.

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No, we're going to be paying for a product. A product that they are providing.

Whether you think it's a good product or not is irrelevant.

It would've been more convincing if SE came out and said..

"Hey, we think now the game is good enough to charge you for it". But they don't! They basically say that we are funding their development process.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

No, we're going to be paying for a product. A product that they are providing.

Whether you think it's a good product or not is irrelevant.

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...a product that I am having more fun playing than any other game I've played in the last several years. That's my honest opinion.

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Originally Posted by December

"Hey, we think now the game is good enough to charge you for it". But they don't! They basically say that we are funding their development process.

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Which is exactly what happens with every MMORPG out there. The main purpose of monthly fees in every MMORPG is to fund further development and generate profits.

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Originally Posted by Kaida

Do we need another one of these?

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As irritating as it is to see new threads like these, I think we kind of do. Some people will support any decision SE makes. I think this should at least inform SE in a way that is like "HEY, you need to improve some foundational elements of your game before you start charging."

Because really, they should. Things like party search, gear search, market ward improvements. This stuff is CRITICAL to the game, not secondary.

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Originally Posted by December

It would've been more convincing if SE came out and said..

"Hey, we think now the game is good enough to charge you for it". But they don't! They basically say that we are funding their development process.

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how many MMORPG's have released new content after the enitial lauch? and where do you think they get the money to develop new content. we have all be playing for months sucking money out of a comany while they got the game to a stage that they feel is worthy of us paying. this is the time pay or not. but if your not paying why are you here?

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Which is exactly what happens with every MMORPG out there. The main purpose of monthly fees in every MMORPG is to fund further development and generate profits.

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No, I'm sorry, I don't think every MMORPG starts out with the Publisher and developer stating that they are aware the game is garbage and give a free year of play-testing.

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Originally Posted by December

No, I'm sorry, I don't think every MMORPG starts out with the Publisher and developer stating that they are aware the game is garbage and give a free year of play-testing.

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In fact they gave you that free year. Now the game is solid and enjoyable. The free play testing comes to an end, as they are providing a product, and people normally pay for products. It's that simple.

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Originally Posted by December

No, I'm sorry, I don't think every MMORPG starts out with the Publisher and developer stating that they are aware the game is garbage and give a free year of play-testing.

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I find it funny that you care so much about steering people away from a game that you have not played for more than an hour or two. That's how long it took me to reach rank 13...

HI GUYS I'M JUST HERE TO TELL YOU THAT I AM QUITTING THE GAME.

W-WHAT? YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT ME? WELL WHY NOT?

I understand why a bunch of people are going to quit, and why they're uneasy about this. Really, I do. I'm rather wary about spending money on an unfinished product myself. But come the fuck on, you don't need to make this thread every 20 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I find it funny that you care so much about steering people away from a game that you have not played for more than an hour or two. That's how long it took me to reach rank 13...

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I think I know the definition for that kind of attitude... what was that called again?

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Originally Posted by Abriael

In fact they gave you that free year. Now the game is solid and enjoyable. The free play testing comes to an end, as they are providing a product, and people normally pay for products. It's that simple.

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I respectfully disagree that the game is "solid". It's obviously not solid, or else we wouldn't be getting this year-long content overall plan presented to us to keep us playing. I'm pretty sure Yoshi admitting that the game is 50% complete is proof enough that he agree it isn't solid as well. I'm also aware that Yoshi has nothing to do with the sub's being enforced upon the players.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I find it funny that you care so much about steering people away from a game that you have not played for more than an hour or two. That's how long it took me to reach rank 13...

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I've played this game a lot more than you're assuming. I've deleted characters, made new ones, shown my friends over and over how cool the creation process is. I don't care about the characters that I have right now because when 2.0 rolls around I will be re rolling again anyway. I have been much higher rank than 13 and have logged plently of hours into FFXIV over the past year.. (leveling is not all you do in this game either).

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I dont want to quit. I am not trying to steer people away from the game. I wish the game was full enough to really enjoy the community and party play. I am a real fan of the game I really am. I really want it to succeed. I really want more games like FFXI, EverQuest, and now FFXIV to be competitive on the market.