Only 2 dungeons per now vs 3....terrible idea

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colorful

There's a difference between content everyone can access, and only a certain amount of people can access that's not due to the fault of the player, but "server limitations" that they'll never fix.

---

This is just the first of a series of different types of content. FC Ship quests are just the first of the new types that will be in 3.1 and in 3.2 they will add something different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

Snip

---

There is nothing alarming about them dropping 1 dungeon out of the 3 per patch in order for them to give us more variety in content.

Crafting and gathering were continually added on in patches throughout the 2.0 era. FC didn't get absolutely nothing, housing (et al) and company actions and other minor additions were added to FCs during 2.0's lifetime. PVP again received additions and minor changes throughout 2.0. Gold Saucer was dropped in 2.51, what exactly were you expecting to be added in such a short amount of time since then? They have already announced additions to the place to come in 3.1+.

After a patch or 2 of them using these diverted resources to add this content we can determine whether it was worth a dungeon per patch or not, but for now I'm all for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amiantos

This is just the first of a series of different types of content. FC Ship quests are just the first of the new types that will be in 3.1 and in 3.2 they will add something different.

---

So less content for a 3-4 month patch cycle for players that don't belong in an FC that owns a ship? Yeah, that sounds like a good idea to me. I'll wait until I see how it plays out before thinking about making too big of a deal with it, but the white knighting of SE really needs to stop. This is not directed at you Amiantos, but when people express their dislike for things in the game, you don't jump in and call them whiny unless their post sounds like "I want savage to be nerfed so I can one shot it, and now!". It's like people can't handle their favourite game being criticized.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colorful

but the white knighting of SE really needs to stop.

---

What really needs to stop is the labeling of anyone who isn't raising a pitchfork against the game and SE as a white knight. -____-

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDaemon

What really needs to stop is the labeling of anyone who isn't raising a pitchfork against the game and SE as a white knight. -____-

---

Sorry, but in this forum, there is people who would be happy to see SE personally torture and kill their family and friends in front of them to just defend them on the court.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDaemon

What really needs to stop is the labeling of anyone who isn't raising a pitchfork against the game and SE as a white knight. -____-

---

There's a fine line between not "raising a pitchfork against SE" and calling anybody who dislikes any aspect of the game, or the direction it's going in whiny, and just complain for the sake of complaining. How about those people come up with a decent rebuttal as some have been doing, or rather don't post at all? It's not like those posts are contributing to the discussion.

If those two dungeons are well designed and not just bland cookie cutter placeholders like most of the 3.0 leveling dungeons then that would be fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colorful

There's a fine line between not "raising a pitchfork against SE" and calling anybody who dislikes any aspect of the game, or the direction it's going in whiny, and just complain for the sake of complaining. How about those people come up with a decent rebuttal as some have been doing, or rather don't post at all? It's not like those posts are contributing to the discussion.

---

I'm sure despite any rebuttal they could come up with someone who would label them as a white knight would continue to do so for the simple fact they are defending against their complaint towards the game/SE, which the accuser no doubt holds to be irrefutable.

Approving of a choice SE is making doesn't make someone a white knight anymore than not agreeing with it makes someone whiny, so long as they can constructively stand by (support) their opinion. (this includes through discussion/debate.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDaemon

I'm sure despite any rebuttal they could come up with someone who would label them as a white knight would continue to do so for the simple fact they are defending against their complaint towards the game/SE, which the accuser no doubt holds to be irrefutable.

Approving of a choice SE is making doesn't make someone a white knight anymore than not agreeing with it makes someone whiny, so long as they can constructively stand by their opinion.

---

I couldn't care less if they provide a decent rebuttal, I'm talking specifically about the people without one. There's far too much people claiming people are whiny and that's it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

If those two dungeons are well designed and not just bland cookie cutter placeholders like most of the 3.0 leveling dungeons then that would be fine.

---

This entirely. Also why does SE insist on making dungeons 25-30 minutes long but making them insanely bland with trash that takes a long time to die (why does a bee take 20-30 seconds to kill?...). We can have varied content, and they can still be dungeons. People who are active on this forum are likely tired of my comparisons to WoW, but I'll keep making them since FFXIV is almost a complete copy. Before Blizzard decided to butcher dungeons, they had a lot of interesting ones that were somewhat different than the normal ones, with very interesting story moments, such as the Halls of Reflection.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colorful

I couldn't care less if they provide a decent rebuttal, I'm talking specifically about the people without one. There's far too much people claiming people are whiny and that's it.

---

I would be more apt to call them forums trolls if all they do is call people whiny and that's it, no reason why they approve of the current "whatever" or why the poster is wrong in their criticism, just calling the poster whiny.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colorful

So less content for an 3-4 month patch cycle for players that don't belong in an FC that owns a ship? Yeah, that sounds like a good idea to me. I'll wait until I see how it plays out before thinking about making too big of a deal with it, but the white knighting of SE really needs to stop. This is not directed at you Amiantos, but when people express their dislike for things in the game, you don't jump in and call them whiny unless their post sounds like "I want savage to be nerfed so I can one shot it, and now!". It's like people can't handle their favourite game being criticized.

---

I may have not been clear or whatever but the FC Airship Quests is the FIRST not the ONLY new type of content to be introduced. 3.2 will have a completely different type of content. But the 3.1 big content outside of MSQ, and new CT style is FC Airship quest.

Not going to lie, I'd be happy with one new dungeon per update... Heck, I'd be happy with none... Dungeons are right down there with Hunts in my opinion, they're simply not particularly challenging or interesting... As long as they're not just cutting content for nothing, I have no problems with this. If whatever they're adding instead sucks, that'll be disappointing, but at least they'd be trying to take some risks... After Heavenswards endgame ended up being an inferior rehash of 2.0 I was a bit worried that Final Fantasy XIV would just be following the same pathetic routine of 3 dungeons, a primal and a raid each update... They really should be trying new things, this is far from a terrible idea - It might result in some terrible content, but at least they're working on actual new content, instead of giving us "Sastasha (Extreme)" and "Ifrit (Savage)"...

If the dungeons are actually fun and interesting with actual replay value then I don't mind 2. I'm not holding my breath for that though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDaemon

There is nothing alarming about them dropping 1 dungeon out of the 3 per patch in order for them to give us more variety in content.

Crafting and gathering were continually added on in patches throughout the 2.0 era. FC didn't get absolutely nothing, housing (et al) and company actions and other minor additions were added to FCs during 2.0's lifetime. PVP again received additions and minor changes throughout 2.0. Gold Saucer was dropped in 2.51, what exactly were you expecting to be added in such a short amount of time since then? They have already announced additions to the place to come in 3.1+.

After a patch or 2 of them using these diverted resources to add this content we can determine whether it was worth a dungeon per patch or not, but for now I'm all for it.

---

In such a short time? Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't they able to muster out patches 2.56 and 2.57 which were nothing but nurfs?

I mean 2.56 added Final Coil to party finder as well as Echo for the Coil, increased pony drop and changes to Steps of Faith. 2.57 increased the Echo again for the Coil and added pony mount music and had more changes to Steps. They could have added a lot more to those patches, maybe I'm just too critical since I'm still not happy with 3.1 but diverting resources to work on other things they have labled "risky" while so many other things need to be fixed and expanded on, isn't a good thing in my book.

Well, it's discouraging if the future sets will have 2 instead of 3.

I agree, having a variety is essential.. Running the same two dungeons is killing the fun.

RIP (Expert Roulette run) ... Hello (Expert Coin-flip run)

i wonder what their reaction would be if we all decided to sub one less month between patches eh?

I would rather see lots of new variable content than many new boring faceroll dungeons.
Dungeons in this game are boring and easy, a few of them are quite original but that's it.
In recent interviews Yoshi has spoken about new types of content and that is the way to go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

Not going to lie, I'd be happy with one new dungeon per update... Heck, I'd be happy with none... Dungeons are right down there with Hunts in my opinion, they're simply not particularly challenging or interesting... As long as they're not just cutting content for nothing, I have no problems with this. If whatever they're adding instead sucks, that'll be disappointing, but at least they'd be trying to take some risks... After Heavenswards endgame ended up being an inferior rehash of 2.0

---

I couldn't agree more sir.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Airget

So 3 dungeons where you always have the same manner behind them, 3 bosses, 30 mins around is worse then them actually trying to create more unique content?

---

According to the amount of likes OP is getting, I am afraid some people think so.

I just want Neverreap and Fractal Continuum to stay in the Expert Roulette, if we only get two more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amiantos

Yoshida stated that in place of making a 3rd dungeon every patch they were going to release a new type of content to add variety. Then again I guess people will cherry pick and bitch about the game no matter what. The FC Airship quests is the first of this new dev plan.

---

Depends on the content. Dungeons happen to be something I enjoy because they're easy to get to without much arbitrary bullshit (read: hunts, treasure hunts). I click a button, I do the thing, make a memory and move on (which works out pretty well after a long day at work).

I was happy when we got the sightseeing log since it met requests for exploration (that it was implemented as oddly as it was notwithstanding), and I even wrote a suggestion on non-combat content for BRD mains, so I'm not against content that might not be up my alley. That said, I'm not keen on getting less of the content I enjoy (dungeons) in exchange for content I'm not into.

The only positive that I can see from this is that they'll hopefully stagger ilevel climbs by making the new dungeons the same ilevel as Neverreap and Fractal, increasing the number of dungeons in expert roulette to 4 instead of 2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by willowmyer

I've pretty much stopped running ex roulette because its so boring with only 2.

---

First sequential of a new run of patches - this was to be expected. The selection will improve as later patches roll out.

In the meantime, I'd rather two unique dungeons per patch, than another two years of remakes. It was okay towards the end, but the early Hard Modes were really, really tiresome. The coat of paint is just as important as the stuff underneath. Seeing Sastasha again, for example, was a bit much.

Honestly, dungeons suck anyway.
I used to only do them for weekly tomes, but I don't even do that anymore.
I PvP for the tomes now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by willowmyer

So I read an article where Yoshida mentioned that future patches are going to be 2 dungeons instead of 3 per patch...to focus on different mechanics

Whelp, if 3.0 expert dungeons are what he's talking about then please re-think this. I've pretty much stopped running ex roulette because its so boring with only 2. Adding 1 more seems trivial...but when you are asking your players to run them over...and over...and over............and over again 3 is better than 2.

---

idk, if you're gonna run them over and over 3 is not significantly better than 2. I'm all for 2 dungeons if it prevents a 3rd one that people never want to do *coughcoughkeeperofthelake* ...and yes, even now, there's people that are still bad at that place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Honestly, dungeons suck anyway.
I used to only do them for weekly tomes, but I don't even do that anymore.
I PvP for the tomes now.

---

This. I'll be seriously disappointed if they take PvP away from the PvE gear tomes again. Playing humans is always more interesting than playing AI.

Doesn't matter what they do to make a dungeon feel more unique.

If it takes over 30 minutes and is as unforgiving as Neverreap is, then you just have people taking the 30 minute penalty by leaving. Make it as interesting as you want, but by the lack of choice is going to kill that fact about as fast as the amount of choices we have for the expert dungeons. Two or three options is still a low amount that will burn out quickly.

Look at the Steps of Faith. Probably one of the most unique fights, but among DF it's the most hated.

The Turtle Fight in Stone Vigil hard, is also unique because everyone can Dps off the cannons. After a few runs I find this fight the most boring.

The biggest problem is being repetitive. In order for them to not be boring is to be randomly generated by making the level layout different, and making the mobs and objectives different. But being realistic, that's probably super expensive and will not likely to be developed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiceisNice

I never liked expert roulette because of this. While the dungeons are fun, having only 2 or 3 in a random roulette kills any sense of variety, especially when it comes to getting your weekly currency. They should at least keep expert roulette as its own tier (heavensward lvl 60 dungeons) and enforce an ilvl sync, like they have done for high level roulette.

---

Curse you RiceisNice, your sig made me brush my screen thinking there was something on it >.>.

Yoshi P has done it again constanly ruining players expectations and not listening to players. More dungeons for ex roulette gives more variety if he wants people to play these dungeons and want people to help new players etc then add alot from the start in the ex roulette cause if people find other ways to get tomes no one will touch his precious ex roulette wich also means lack of players on DF to help his casuals that he always wants to pamper and give handouts too. Its already boring and repetative as it is and you get burned out really quick cause you the same thing over and over again. It becomes a daily chore if you are willing to cap. Waiting 20-30 mins on PVP que to then get 20 esoterics only means you could have done a dungeon in the mean time.

If he wants people to "git gud" maybe Yoshi P should look into the mirror himself and "git gud" as a director and start listening to players. I don't think anyone here on this thread ever said Yoshi P pls add even less dungeons on ex roulette. This is also coming from me the nr 1 complainer on this forum. People wanted more dungeons for the variety instead he made less dungeons making it even easier to get burned out so who is he listening to? Maybe its time to get off your high horse Yoshi P and stop doing what WoW does and listen to your community. By community we don't mean only listen to the JP market when they are unsatisfied but all of us.

We wanted alot of content with 3.0 you kept reskinning 2.0 recycling and coming up with non creative endgame scenarios. Copying content from everything but FFXI on top of that wich was this games fundraiser during its darkest hours. You could have just hold back on 3.0 for a few months created maybe 3-5 more dungeons and had an ex roulette that gives you a variety of 8 different dungeons or something instead you want to cut it down to two? I dont think people here would get burned out if it was more options on ex roulette dungeon but seeing the same dungeon atleast 3 times a week and maybe 3 times a day if you help out LS and FC friends you clearly didnt listen to anyone from your consumer market or the fans or the players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alistaire

idk, if you're gonna run them over and over 3 is not significantly better than 2. I'm all for 2 dungeons if it prevents a 3rd one that people never want to do *coughcoughkeeperofthelake* ...and yes, even now, there's people that are still bad at that place.

---

Keeper is still a quintillion times better than Neverreap, and maybe 2-3x better than Fractal. Ugh Neverreap, why do I always get it with DREX?...

What in the world has people thinking neverreap is even hard, let alone enough of a pain to be worth mentioning? Such a joke of a dungeon...

Edit: It's probably the fact that people on here are calling it hard that's making SE think they shouldn't do 3 dungeons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alistaire

What in the world has people thinking neverreap is even hard, let alone enough of a pain to be worth mentioning? Such a joke of a dungeon...

Edit: It's probably the fact that people on here are calling it hard that's making SE think they shouldn't do 3 dungeons.

---

It's short and easy, it's just annoying. The second and last bosses especially.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alistaire

What in the world has people thinking neverreap is even hard, let alone enough of a pain to be worth mentioning? Such a joke of a dungeon...

Edit: It's probably the fact that people on here are calling it hard that's making SE think they shouldn't do 3 dungeons.

---

Who said it was hard? Keeper wasn't hard either.

Neverreap is just boring, I mean you're fighting bees, giraffes, and chubby owls that can fight. It's too long, simple as that. Awful pacing. They could have more adds that have less HP, I think that would work a little, or just make it shorter. Also the tornadoes with the final fight isn't a fun mechanic. They're annoying, whoever designed them should get a slap on the back of the head.

neverreap is just annoying and no fun at all. no hard.

anyway. as long as the new content is something ppl will actually do and not stuff like gold saucer (especially triple triad) things are fine. though i still hope neverreap (no matter how stupid it is) and fractual stay in the expert roulette. at least till we get new tomes (guess 3.2)

perhaps it'll be alternative forms of content. Not everything we do in game needs to revolve around instances.

Dungeons are a chore, and back when we had three a patch everyone just flocked to the fasted one and shafted the other two.

2.0 it was Wanderers Palace
2.1 was Manor Hard
2.2 was great glorious Brayflox
2.3 it was Stone Vigil and *sometimes* Tam-Tara
2.4 it was Snowcloak or wishing for the sweet release of death
and finally 2.5 was just Wanderers Palace 2: Electric Boogaloo

Even now when players go out to farm their tombs they all just flock to Fractal because they find the other dungeon too annoying. I'm fine with two dungeons a patch if we are getting more unique dungeons rather than recycled dungeons with new lighting. If that time not being wasted on reskinning dungeons is being put into making more meaningful content for groups in server or out in the overworld to keep it more alive.

I just play PvP and Savage to get my Eso cap now anyway. Its infinitely more fun and exciting than dungeons anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HorseBoots

I just play PvP and Savage to get my Eso cap now anyway. Its infinitely more fun and exciting than dungeons anyway.

---

It seems that more and more people stick to PVP to cap their tomes.
I am not surprised, it doesn't matter if you have 2 or 10 dungeons. If you run them 20 times a week for some time, they will become boring anyways.
PvP is a bit different every time, as the content depends on players, not scripted never changing fights.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

PvP is a bit different every time, as the content depends on players, not scripted never changing fights.

---

Unless you're on the Aether data center and you're also a Twin Adder and it's literally any time between Tuesday - Thursday. Then you just have the Eso Hunters playing who don't actually participate.

Seriously, like I can get it that a game of frontlines is much faster than your average dungeon run. But don't show up if you don't want to actually play.

Bottom line is if designing 1 less dungeon allows for more time to design more content of any other kind it's a step in the right direction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myahele

It's what people predicted when the cash shop came up: less content in favor of more things in the cash shop. This is just the beginning! You'll see.

---

that comment is so unrealated and wrong lol

What i dont understand by Yoshi's statement is that during the 2.0 lifespam we got 3 dungeons, primals muliple side quests with long quests lines and group battles, raids with good storylines etc. Yet fast forward to heavensward it seems we are getting less content per patch than before. I mean if you can make Hildbrand questline and still do all of those things why is now when we are getting less do you need feel the need to take away ( at a guess here ) the main content for lvl 60 players. This new content better be earth shattering because personally i feel like this is heading the way of wow.

Basically what im getting at is where have all those rescources gone that went into hildbrand etc?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by erish

Yet fast forward to heavensward it seems we are getting less content per patch than before.

Basically what im getting at is where have all those rescources gone that went into hildbrand etc?

---

We haven't even gotten a content patch in Heavensward. How can you say patches in HW are getting less content than before? o.O HW released with 5 leveling dungeons (to span 10 levels), 1 end game story dungeon and 2 end game dungeons, 2 primals and multiples upon multiples of side quests in each of the entirely new zones w/ a raid released shortly after w/ ,in my view, a good storyline.

Where did the resources that went into Hildbrand go? Most likely into more Hildbrand quests to come, if we never get another Hildbrand update, well then we can wonder where those resources were moved to/why there were cut.

With the scaling systems they have in place, this artificial segregation of content is unneeded.

"expert" include all lv 60 dungeons.
"high level" include all lv 50 dungeons (let these give proper mob XP!)
"low level" include all leveling dungeons and not just Brayflox *scnr*

Enforce item level caps as needed.
Boom. Done.