why am i so gimped now?

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

TL;DR version:

Materia needs to be done. Stats are rebalanced, gear matters and targets matter.

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No offense, but you're not doing your community over at FFXIVCore.com any good by posting your terrible, and in some cases insulting comments over here.

@ Everyone else: I've been playing with gear to try and help a friend out. I haven't had a chance to buy new gear or try leveling myself yet because it's late and the wards are down, but I was able to confirm a few things... which might already be obvious to most, but since people are being dicks I'll just throw it out there.

- Dated gear, in most cases, has better stats than non Dated gear. The only difference is you can't apply Materia to Dated gear, but the increased stats make up for it.

- Dated gear does in fact work, applying all stats; however, if the stats are greyed out you do not get any of them at all, not even a portion of them like you previously did. An example, I equip a L29 Canvas Acton on my L22 Archer, I get neither the HP or the MP, not even some of it.

- Gear that does not favor the class you're on also does not apply any of the stats at all outside of Defense. I confirmed Defense does apply though, even if it's not favored.

So before you go throwing out all of your "dated" gear because you're assuming it's trash, think again. Dated gear has better stats, so I would hold onto them and convert them into materia to use on your next set of gear.

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Originally Posted by Ava

No offense, but you're not doing your community over at FFXIVCore.com any good by posting your terrible, and in some cases insulting comments over here.

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No offense, but instead of an elaborate post the short version of the matter is they're clearly forcing us into making use of Materia to enhance our stats.

They also rebalanced the algorithms, as people noticed.

Gear has more of a purpose than it used to.

Targets you're fighting matters much more now (5+ over level will destroy a lot of classes now, if not all solo.)

What's the problem?

Not a bit of trouble soloing things here.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

No offense, but instead of an elaborate post the short version of the matter is they're clearly forcing us into making use of Materia to enhance our stats.

They also rebalanced the algorithms, as people noticed.

Gear has more of a purpose than it used to.

Targets you're fighting matters much more now (5+ over level will destroy a lot of classes now, if not all solo.)

What's the problem?

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Dated gear has increased stats to make up for their inability to have materia attached to them. You're imposing your personal beliefs on people stating that they MUST use materia and care about their gear. You don't bother supporting your claims, or try to actually constructively help people having trouble, you just toss out your personal opinion and shove it off like it's something factual you're trying to support. It's not.

And if it is, then support it. Because so far it's BS. This whole thing happened at 1.18 too, and telling people to L2P didn't fix it. Trying new things and helping each other did. So, if you don't have anything to contribute to people having trouble, then go post in a different thread. Or preferably a different forum, maybe the one you're a "senior moderator" for over at Core, they'll probably put up with it.

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Originally Posted by Ava

Dated gear has increased stats to make up for their inability to have materia attached to them. You're imposing your personal beliefs on people stating that they MUST use materia

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Actually, it comes from the fact I've played their previous MMORPGs for 9+ years total that whenever they introduce a new system, they want people to use it. Doesn't mean I like that fact, but it's a very common trend with SE in terms of MMOs.

Unless you care to tell me why they introduced the Materia system which they stated would create powerful gear and not want people to have a reason to want it? It doesn't mean everything they do is a good decision -- just look at the initial launch of FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Actually, it comes from the fact I've played their previous MMORPGs for 9+ years total that whenever they introduce a new system, they want people to use it. Doesn't mean I like that fact, but it's a very common trend with SE in terms of MMOs.

Unless you care to tell me why they introduced the Materia system which they stated would create powerful gear and not want people to have a reason to want it? It doesn't mean everything they do is a good decision -- just look at the initial launch of FFXIV.

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Of course they want you to use materia. But I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. People are using Dated gear. Dated gear has increased stats to make up for no materia (for the third time). If one is wearing dated gear, and you tell them to get materia + new gear (with decreased stats), then how exactly does that solve the problem? I am sure this would apply at level cap with end game gear and tier 4 materia, but most of the people expressing their problems aren't level 50, so that doesn't really apply, does it?

Take FFXI for example (yeah, I played it too). Of course SE wanted you to use augments, they were really great for high level gear. Did you go augmenting all your gear you used while you leveled up? Didn't think so. While materia is certainly going to be that end game tool to push your character ahead of your peers, leveling should not be that finely tuned. If it is, then SE made a huge mistake. If it's not, then we need to put our heads together and figure out the new system, because we're clearly missing something.

A glorified "L2P" helps nobody.

from what ive seen

its not that you are gimped

its that mobs scale alot more with level now, fighting stuff above you got harder

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

from what ive seen

its not that you are gimped

its that mobs scale alot more with level now, fighting stuff above you got harder

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My theory (holding off personal judgement till tomorrow when I can try things myself) is that they more or less buffed mobs by ~10 levels. Sounds crazy but according to the patch notes, killing a mob equal or higher level gives you a chain. Going by SE's past (with FFXI) exp chain systems, I think it's safe to assume that they want us killing mobs 2-3 levels lower than our own level if we're solo. People just aren't adapting to that new idea. Or at least that's what I think is happening.

But it is entirely possible SE made some huge oversight, wouldn't be the first time.

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Originally Posted by Ava

My theory (holding off personal judgement till tomorrow when I can try things myself) is that they more or less buffed mobs by ~10 levels. Sounds crazy but according to the patch notes, killing a mob equal or higher level gives you a chain. Going by SE's past (with FFXI) exp chain systems, I think it's safe to assume that they want us killing mobs 2-3 levels lower than our own level if we're solo. People just aren't adapting to that new idea. Or at least that's what I think is happening.

But it is entirely possible SE made some huge oversight, wouldn't be the first time.

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ive been testing things all night

its not that mobs are buffed

its that the dmg/defense vs level factor weighs in a TON more
both ways

mobs get easier quicker when you pass them now, and they hurt more when they are higher

Absolutely love how much harder it got. Had a leve group today and the others didn't want to wait for my buffs. Ran in and 4 of them died. I laughed and said, you want buffs now? People actually have to try now.

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Originally Posted by MynxLynx

So basically we have to dump all "dated" items into the trash can and buy all freshly crafted items?

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Oh no, not in the trash can. In the materia converter

Didn't test for long but I was doing it on some mobs I had killed before the patch on my level 20 lancer. On my level 25 lancer I was doing probably 60% less on normal hits(from 90-100 to 30-40), and about the same for WS (from 270-300 to 130-150). On the other hand I was getting more exp than when I was a 20 on them (these were 26-29 puks, the mob type, not the name). Was getting 250-350 if I remember correctly(could have been 200-300) on my 20 lancer, but was getting 300-400 with my 25. Was taking 40-50 rather than 150-200 from normal hits (not sure how much of that is the 5 level difference though). All around the fight was shorter, as I was hitting it more than when I was a 20 (50% to almost 100%) because our levels were closer together and didn't have a problem killing them back to back by taking their MP and dodging the WSs, just as I did at 20.

those wanting to solo need a friend to boost them XD, remember the claiming system!?

I also dislike how I have even less mp =(

Did a Totorak run today with a R25 CNJ, R25 ARC, and me R27 GLA. My damage output had decreased extremely noticeably but as a tank I didn't mind too much. I was able to firmly keep the monsters attacking me at all times. Mobs also seem to hit for less damage since the CNJ wasn't getting two shotted all the time like she used to.

Didn't finish because the three of us weren't killing fast enough to make the time limit but we all had a lot of fun. For once, mobs weren't dying in 5 seconds and I could sit back and actually watch the action.

Honestly my r50 gla feels more powerful then ever, im holding hate on multiple mobs easy (was rampaging trough the amaljaa beastman stronghold with some ls friends havin a blast) I survive crazy odds, and many times i thought I'd die id make it trough with blocks and lucky evade.

Damage isn't extremely high but its not much lower then before at all, and this is a tank class after all, what did you expect damage wise?

I absolutely love the new gladiator in this patch, I never felt so much fun playing the class before, I'd always dread tanking multiple mobs or having dd jump right on mobs right at pull.

Why can't people read...like seriously patch notes...um Repair your gear or it's worthless, if you weak add some materia, if you wanted to be cool because you level 1 and wanted level 50 gear to impress the world that ain't working no more kiddos...like play the game...learn about the patch before you whine like a fool.

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Originally Posted by Fixy

why does my gladiator miss literally every attack and i do 70% less damage than i did before? wtf

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Technically, If you "literally" miss every attack, don't you do 100% less damage than before?

I noticed for me, it's not so much the gear as the mobs. It seems like they don't want us to be soloing mobs 10 ranks above us. If you try killing things your rank, you get good exp from what I remember. Plus you can pull off chains now. Any gear that's too high for you will now give you CRIPPLING penalties so double check that everything's up to date.

I was at first frustrated too with new aggroing mob placement in places like Cassiopeia Hollow, where I like doing leves. And not being able to destroy things higher rank than I am. But I like how the game is more challenging and now more rewarding at least.

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It's like we've been reverted to FFXI standards of character growth.

Rank 10 Valkurm Dunes parties anyone?

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Except we have no party search feature...

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

from what ive seen

its not that you are gimped

its that mobs scale alot more with level now, fighting stuff above you got harder

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I haven't played post-patch yet, but this actually sounds good to me.
I felt that the relative weakness of even-match opponents demonstrated a failure in gaming logic. An opponent of the same level as my character should be a challenging fight, and I see this as making leves the optimal way for solo players to level, while encouraging groups to grind off higher-level mobs.

After all, what's more logical than "I'm level X, I need to fight level X foes"?

you get materia by killing mobs that gives xp. the more xp the more rate on soulbound

Ahh so maybe it is the mobs and damage calculations that got "buffed", and it is not a matter of, "lol your gear is dated so you are gimped". Maybe I'll hop on one of my low level DoW's to check it out.

Always thought it was a little odd that mobs the same level as you were so much weaker.

at low levels, the level difference seems to matter way more than stats now, it's a significant drop in strength when a mob goes from 1 level above to 1 level below your own

And again the community shows use how extremely terrible they are at adopting to new situations.

- stats do have a big impact now. have you any materia equipped? rebalanced your gear?
- leve exp ist still pretty awesome. Did 47 to 48 in 90min. At least i have now to do something to get this kind of exp.
- more difficult leaves doesn't mean lower exp/hr.
- behests give ridiculous exp now and can be done every 30min.
- partying works ten times better. more fun, more exp.
- solo grinding is crap now, as it should be. if you want to solo, do leves or try to get one-man-behests.

but there is stuff which bums even me out.

- healing skills are 1/3 less effective, but HP was nearly doubled
- aegis boom and sentinel seem broken. at least with my THM

but hell, it is the first day.

This patch is ridicules. It has taken whatever little fun we had in the game (solo play) and replaced it with this broken shit. Really, what is the point of slowing everything down to halt? make it more FFXI? if I want to play a game like FFXI the I would play ####### FFXI!!!

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Originally Posted by Sontawila

This patch is ridicules. It has taken whatever little fun we had in the game (solo play) and replaced it with this broken shit. Really, what is the point of slowing everything down to halt? make it more FFXI? if I want to play a game like FFXI the I would play ####### FFXI!!!

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Are you implying the only fun to be had in this game was solo play? I think a lot of people would disagree with you. The most boring thing I've ever had to do in this game was play by myself.

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Originally Posted by Jabo

And again the community shows use how extremely terrible they are at adopting to new situations.

- stats do have a big impact now. have you any materia equipped? rebalanced your gear?
- leve exp ist still pretty awesome. Did 47 to 48 in 90min. At least i have now to do something to get this kind of exp.
- more difficult leaves doesn't mean lower exp/hr.
- behests give ridiculous exp now and can be done every 30min.
- partying works ten times better. more fun, more exp.
- solo grinding is crap now, as it should be. if you want to solo, do leves or try to get one-man-behests.

but there is stuff which bums even me out.

- healing skills are 1/3 less effective, but HP was nearly doubled
- aegis boom and sentinel seem broken. at least with my THM

but hell, it is the first day.

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^This

I'm soling leves at 1 star lvl thirty, 175xp/kill 2500xp bonus.. seems fair and efficient to me.

It's a lot more challenging now, but just burning through leves was not fun.

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Originally Posted by Fleur

Ahh so maybe it is the mobs and damage calculations that got "buffed", and it is not a matter of, "lol your gear is dated so you are gimped". Maybe I'll hop on one of my low level DoW's to check it out.

Always thought it was a little odd that mobs the same level as you were so much weaker.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I'm soling leves at 1 star lvl thirty, 175xp/kill 2500xp bonus.. seems fair and efficient to me.

It's a lot more challenging now, but just burning through leves was not fun.

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I completely agree. Burning through leves wasn't fun. So far I really like these new changes. Fighting something my own level is more interesting. It takes longer, but I get awarded more EXP for my effort.

In the old system (before 1.19 and ESPECIALLY before 1.18) content wasn't very difficult, but you had burn through it to get any decent EXP gains. Hurriedly jumping from mob to mob just wasn't much fun. Now I can have have fun during the fight and still advance levels at a reasonable clip.

I love this patch !

Still withholding my judgment until I can play more.

The first thing I noticed was how I need to pretty much get all new gear for most of my crafts, because I usually just stuck with things that every class could use, an about 5-10 levels higher. That's no longer applicable, so I'm damn glad I have all this extra inventory space, because I'll need it just for the new equipment I need to purchase.

As for leveling, my GLA is definitely weaker, although perhaps it's just a placebo, but I seem to be evading quite a bit more. Perhaps they will adjust this, because I'm not a damn Puglist, lower my evasion, but raise that seemingly horrific shield block rate we now have, more like Paladin's from FFXI, since you seem to want to make this game FFXI-2 anyway.

Leves are pretty nice also, not getting my awesome 7.9k reward for completing broken Grid leves anymore, but the 300+ exp I get from the mobs now seems to make up for it. What I could normally complete in five minutes now takes more like 8-10, but hey, at least it takes a little bit of effort now, rather than sitting slack-jawed, pressing 1-9 on my numpad when needed.

Update: Well, didn't take long for Square to do what they do best, and strip away all my optimism. Time expired on my Behest in Nine Ivies, because they so graciously gave me 6 Slugs, and 6 Hares to deal with, which pre-1.19 wouldn't be an issue, but now with how Square gave the enemy 3000 TP a hit, I literally was getting spammed with AoE Silence/Amnesia every 5 seconds.

They must have a secret brain trust within their organization strictly devoted to giving terrible ideas, because I do not see how they thought letting the mob spam TP attacks was a good idea. That shit needs to be dialed back at least half, I dread the thought of any leve or Behest involving Eyes and Level 5 Petrify now, you pretty much simply would have to ignore doing those if you're 40, 45, or 50.

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Originally Posted by Ava

My theory (holding off personal judgement till tomorrow when I can try things myself) is that they more or less buffed mobs by ~10 levels. Sounds crazy but according to the patch notes, killing a mob equal or higher level gives you a chain. Going by SE's past (with FFXI) exp chain systems, I think it's safe to assume that they want us killing mobs 2-3 levels lower than our own level if we're solo. People just aren't adapting to that new idea. Or at least that's what I think is happening.

But it is entirely possible SE made some huge oversight, wouldn't be the first time.

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I believe this new move on Squares part was highly intentional and quite frankly "I love it." Me and two buddies of mine played our level 25-28th lvl characters at Camp Horizon last night and got owned on a few of the 5 star leves. In the past it was never a problem (barring the Wight Stuff). The first thing we noticed was the implementation of half our hitpoints and lowered damage out put. Next we noticed the 5 star leve mobs were dishing out high damage weapon skills. Gladiator, Maurauder, & Pugilist (me) started to wipe. I myself actually "liked" this for many reasons. When the leves were adjusted to the proper star level and number of heroes, to me it was working as it was meant to. I never liked the idea of a character casually soloing mobs 10-12 levels higher without sweating. Now it feels right, and approaching a scenario now needs more thought and a balanced team. This is merely my opinion, but I have to say I really like the change. Thank Yoshi-P!

yesterday I was doing solo leves at rank 26 in Nanawa... today I cant even kill a djigga on the way to target... WTF

They put 82 damn points on Piety for r25 archer... ahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah It's more than my strength xDDD

Only getting 100xp a kill?! WTF happened???

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Originally Posted by Vivik

Only getting 100xp a kill?! WTF happened???

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The exp system had to be changed with the added link and chain bonuses. There's also a cap on how much a monster will give you now. It's all in the patch notes/

I'm a gladiator.
I'm totally fine with the changes.

couple things here that cause misunderstanding, there is a huge difference to what you can do and how much exp you get as you level.

The exp results have been moved essentially. while its much harder to kill higher level monsters you get more sp from chains and links.

your best off when solo fighting a monster type that matches your class(something that plays to your strengths), and killing things the same or 1 level higher than you.

I tried to do one of the Gridania storyline quests yesterday after the patch. The (single) mob two-shot me. Five attempts in a row.

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Originally Posted by Fixy

jesus this is retarded. i cant even kill mobs my level without going to 40% hp

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So you can't kill mobs YOUR LEVEL without losing HP, and that's a negative? Sorry, no dice. It's EVEN MATCH for a reason.

What happened to the casual elements? The game is suddenly looking like it'll require far much more of my time than I can afford to give to a computer game right now. =/

Really love this world, would be a shame to be forced out because I have a real life.