A suggestion regarding height.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Honestly, I feel a lot of people are expecting too much from a MMO that was basically rushed, using existing assets and toned down and cut corners to be release in a timely fashion. I've come to the conclusion that if it doesn't take 1 2 3 to implement, it's not happening.

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This isn't the latest wow expansion.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Look...it's Japan. Waifus make more money than non-waifus. Until proven otherwise waifus are here to stay, be them catgirls or dragongirls.

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Nobody has said that waifus shouldn't stay. Just that they shouldn't be the ONLY available option. Right now both clans of both demi-beastmen races force all females to be cutely helpless sexy children. Just give us some other options.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

The minority will ALWAYS have less choice. No two ways around it.

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One out of four would be less choice. Zero out of four is no choice. All four demi-beastmen, Seekers, Keepers, Raen, and Xaela, use the exact same female aesthetic, and that aesthetic is their only option.

I hope my Hyur can be as small as female miqote.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I hope my Hyur can be as small as female miqote.

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nope

/10chr

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

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Thank you Niwashi >_>. While I don't feel more height exactly fixes the whole "the girl demi beastmen all look like helpless cutesy sexy children" deal (which imho I felt more applies to Auri women over Miqo'te but I can see what you mean), it at least pushes the race a bit further from it.. and God only knows how badly I want a girl demi beastman that isn't "cutesy helpless sexy child".

I wish more people realized whenever I made this topic it wasn't "get rid of waifu characters, eff those who like 'em!! 1! " it was "Hey, can we get the option for people who want someone different? Like specifically tall women of x race or short men of x race?"

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

Thank you Niwashi >_>. While I don't feel more height exactly fixes the whole "the girl demi beastmen all look like helpless cutesy sexy children" deal (which imho I felt more applies to Auri women over Miqo'te but I can see what you mean), it at least pushes the race a bit further from it.. and God only knows how badly I want a girl demi beastman that isn't "cutesy helpless sexy child".

I wish more people realized whenever I made this topic it wasn't "get rid of waifu characters, eff those who like 'em!! 1! " it was "Hey, can we get the option for people who want someone different? Like specifically tall women of x race or short men of x race?"

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Only thing I can think of is SE deemed it too much work and decided to never do it again.

Each race has specific aesthetics. Most games do this. It's part of racial identity.

SE wants races to look like they do. There's really no changing that. I'm min height at ~6 ft. I deal with it.

Also Miqo'te are not Mithra. The boys aren't rare.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

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The only one who you could argue the height is something important to their racial identity is the au ra. There is nothing in the lore or otherwise that states "Miqo'te women are only ever 5'4 max never higher." The reason I extend it to the Au Ra as well, is well the Auri women are yet another disappointingly "cutesy childlike (and yet also sexualized) 'demi' beast women" and making it so "one tribe found out how to get their women to be tall/men to be short and that's their weird theme!" would help remedy that issue. Besides, SE has the ability to make exceptions, they already messed with a bit of Au Ra biology with the various Xaela tribes, I don't see why adding a tribe that'd allow for canon tall Auri women/short Auri men is so bizarre

Also you are wrong about the Miqo'te. Miqo'te are a largely women populated race, like the Mithra. It's why the Seekers haves the Nuhn/Tia system and the Keeper men migrate from group to group often.

By the way, I'm glad you can deal with it, but extend a little empathy to those who don't either want to or care to deal with always being shorter than their male counterparts.

Why not be a Lalafell? They're the only race that a female is allowed to be taller than the male.

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Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

Not every woman wants to be cute. Some women prefer to be badass.

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Who says they're mutually exclusive? My almost minimum height Midlander who smashes dragons' faces in with a giant spear would like a word with you.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

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Because I like beast-like races (Or well, the closest we can get) and not looking like a weird super pear-shaped gnome baby thing. As a slight note, Lalafell actually do exactly what I'm talking about with this, same height range for men and women, the girls aren't any taller than then men.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

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I mean, there is two types of aesthetic applications, visual and action based aesthetics. Currently in the game its near impossible to be "action based" cute, you're a warrior of light, responsible for slaying primals and all, so we can ignore that option and go with the former, which is visual based cuteness. It's arguable that you can easily make a cute looking Roegadyn, Elezen, or Highlander girl (Either a straight up cute thing or like a pugly sorta cute), however I'd say making an honest to god mature (As in like.. 20 year old instead of looking like a teenager) and tough looking Au ra, Midlander, Miqo'te, or Lalafell girl (Especially with Lalafell and Auri girls) is extremely held back because they're made to look primarily cute to appeal to a primarily cute demographic (Hence why Auri women look the way they do).

Now, that is to say looking "cute" and "tough" aren't mutually exclusive, I mean like taking Ringi from Teppu, the issue is, I'd argue it's very hard to get that in this game, it's generally either one or the other. And it's also avoiding the whole "Why can't women just look badass without looking cute" which is what the person you quoted is talking about.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

Who says they're mutually exclusive? My almost minimum height Midlander who smashes dragons' faces in with a giant spear would like a word with you.

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You have seen yourself run, yes? Any animation specific to female midlanders is explicitly non-threatening.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

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You could also use the logic that the women stay at home more than go out and adventure.

I still stand, they're not Mithra. The boys are *not* rare. Even with humans, females are statistically higher population. doesn't mean "rare".

And no, this doesn't scream "we don't like Au Ra being soooo much shorter than men" this thread screams "I want my tall race women as short as short race women". Not the height differences between genders.

"oh but we don't want to be as short as lalafell" yet you want others to go as short as Miqo females or Au Ra?

You basically want every race to have the exact same heights available. What's the point then? SE has the idea of what they want their races to look like. Height and weight included. If you don't like what they have in mind for a race, go play one that fits what you're looking for.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

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Idk what to tell you but I've never seen a JRPG have a "badass" like character persona for created characters or females higher than males. Maybe with WRPGs but even then, it's rare or nonexistent.

Wouldn't work for some of the races. The Au Ra, for instance, have a very distinct feature which is the men tower above the women. It would destroy the aesthetic of the race if they equalized the height of the two. The proportions would be ALL out of whack.

However, for the races that don't have a large difference like the Au Ra, they could make it so that the tallest female option would be taller than the shortest or average male. That makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

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Explain your logic, because I do not see how you got to that conclusion out of anything I said. Like.. Sun Seeker women are the hunters of the groups while Moon Keepers are either integrated into Gridanian society (As well as the Duskwights are) or they keep to more traditional Moon Keeper culture, which as far as we know, doesn't limit girl Miqo'te to running around and adventuring, they are hunters by nature after all.

And no, the Miqo'te have a higher female birthrate than the men, this is pretty well accepted and understood within the lore.. It's literally the reason why (Generally speaking) Moon Keeper men are nomadic and reclusive while Sun Seekers have their Nunh/Tia system. It's not like a 51/49 split, there's a much larger population ratio of girl Miqo'te than there are men.

Uh, several times I've defined each race only keeps to their own race with height.. That means Elezen minimum is the current minimum for the girl Elezen, while their max be changed to be the maximum for Elezen dudes. I even clarified earlier "I don't want Lala sized Roes or vise versa". I really am not getting how you're coming to your conclusions. By the way, currently there is no way for me to be "Tough, tall (For the race) demi-beastman" and "girl" so it's not really possible to choose a race I want.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

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Uh, pretty sure lots of RPGs have "bada**" character personas, they're just mainly (Or well, only) dudes. Like heck, Cloud is literally seen the stereotypical stoic bada** of JRPGs. Just because it doesn't exist doesn't mean it can't.. And whenever it doesn't come at the detriment to those who are the majority (Note the purpose of this thread is neither the boy or girl of any race is taller or shorter to the counterpart of their own race, therefore allowing the majority to still have plenty of short girls to their liking), I don't see why SE shouldn't do it.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

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The issue is it's not really a distinct/unique aesthetic, plenty of fantasy races do it already, and you could easily argue "Gross differences between body masses with males and females" was already done with with the Roegadyn. Like, the imho difference between M!Roes and F!Roes is equal to the differences between M!Au Ra and F!Au Ra, just with the thickness of the body compared to height (Keep in mind, which one of these is easily changed, while the other requires entirely new models). Plus, the whole "short girls, tall men" aesthetic is the exact point of equalizing them, it's a limiting aesthetic that just ultimately restricts player option and turns some people away from a race (IE folks who want to be a short guy Au Ra or a tall girl Au Ra). Anyways, I'm fairly sure the other half of the Au Ra Aesthetic (IE, the tail, scales, horns, and limbal rings) is killed the second you put on some armor that covers any of those features, should the Au Ra be kept from wearing armor in favor of that aesthetic? No, that's just silly, hence why the other bit, which is they shouldn't really be excluded from this as well.. Besides! It's not like SE can't say "This Au Ra tribe actually found out how to get tall girls/short men", they do plenty of weird biology things with the Xaela tribes (Being able to sustain themselves on bodily fluids, massive lung capacities, 1/3 twin birthrate, "rust colored" skintones that changed due to their enviroment), they could easily make a minor addendum with "The Au Ra also have massively gross differences in body mass between men and women* Though some tribes have managed find ways to make their women as large as the men/men as short as the women, they remain a small rare minority" which keeps the overall aesthetic (as it's about the majority of race) while still allowing for an excuse for players to have tall Auri women and short Auri guys.

I mean, it might mess with the proportions a little (Though, it's not like tall people have different proportions from average height people normally), but let's not kid ourselves SE already screws up with making models make sense, look at how some helmets magically squish horns inside, or numerous amounts of clipping, the really awkward tails with some gear (Or the one suddenly thin tail option).. When the end result is "Hey you don't have to be short as a girl Au Ra" I'm sure any player who wants that is going to not care too much about it.

Au Ra aside (Which while I think they should, I can at least see the reasons why not for them), I don't see why we couldn't do every race what the Lalafell do, ie the height of the race is equal for the men and women.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

I mean, it might mess with the proportions a little....

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You are highly underestimating the proportion issues it would cause. They would have to do complete redesigns to accomplish it.

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Au Ra aside (Which while I think they should, I can at least see the reasons why not for them), I don't see why we couldn't do every race what the Lalafell do, ie the height of the race is equal for the men and women.

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As I said, I think it would work for all races except Au Ra and Roegadyn to do the following: Tallest female option would be at least equal to the average male option. That way you can make a tall female. For some, like midlanders, you can probably even make the tallest female option equal to the male, or only a bit shorter.

The tallest woman in the world was Zeng Jinlian. She was 8' 1.75" tall. The tallest man was Robert Wadlow. He was 8' 11.1" tall. Both of them were well outside the "norms", but the man was still MUCH taller than the woman.

Average male height in Italy (which as the smallest difference in height and still maintains a high average) is 5' 10" for men, and 5' 6" for women. The country with the smallest ratio of height difference and highest average is Azerbaijan. Their men are 5' 7.5" and women are 5' 5" (only 2.75" difference).

It's a simple fact that men are generally taller than women. Can some women be taller than some men? Of course. Which is why I think the tallest female option should be at least as tall as the average male option (except with Au Ra and Roe).

Miqote males really aren't that much taller then the females.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

Uh, pretty sure lots of RPGs have "bada**" character personas, they're just mainly (Or well, only) dudes. Like heck, Cloud is literally seen the stereotypical stoic bada** of JRPGs. Just because it doesn't exist doesn't mean it can't.. And whenever it doesn't come at the detriment to those who are the majority (Note the purpose of this thread is neither the boy or girl of any race is taller or shorter to the counterpart of their own race, therefore allowing the majority to still have plenty of short girls to their liking), I don't see why SE shouldn't do it.

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*sigh* Completely ignored the fact I said created characters...

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

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I think you're vastly overestimating how much of an issue it'd be, it's not like Roegadyn women look super wonky at either 1 or 100. Their heads might be a little big, but a full grown adult that's tall has generally have similar proportions of a full grown short person.

Plenty of women can be taller than men, the max for girls being only average on the guys, as you're suggesting, doesn't solve this issue still. The point is for each race the minimum, median, maximum, et cetera heights for that race should be the same for men or women, you can go "Well, the average height for men and women is x and x of this race" and still allow a girl Miqo'te to be 5'8. There point is there's plenty of girls that are just as tall as tall as a lot of guys, just as there's plenty of short guys as short as, restricting the players ability to make something that's still within reason (IE girls as tall as the current max height for men and guys as short as the current minimum for girls) is silly an unneeded, hence the point of the topic. Making it so there's still a height difference just less of one, between the two doesn't solve any issue it just makes the problem slightly less worse.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

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They're tall enough to the point where I'm shorter than most I encounter! 5 inches makes a difference.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

*sigh* Completely ignored the fact I said created characters...

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My apologies, I did! Either way, fairly sure Highlander, Roegadyn, Miqo'te, Elezen, and Auri men are all various types of Bada** looking men, while the women of each of those races are notable less bada** looking with the Highlander and Roes, while Miqo'te, Elezen and Auri women just straight up don't look very bada** at all, so it doesn't matter much

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

Who says they're mutually exclusive? My almost minimum height Midlander who smashes dragons' faces in with a giant spear would like a word with you.

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You're right, I didn't word that quite as I intended. Of course they're not mutually exclusive - it's perfectly possible to look utterly cutesy and still be incredibly badass. What I meant was that some people prefer to have a not-cutesy but instead just badass looking female character. Like if the female Au Ra looked as tall and fierce and mean as the Au Ra males. Instead they're just another "cute monster girl" that pretty much looks like Miqo'te with scales.

I always thought that Miqote having height difference was just taken from Lions with the males being larger.
The Sun Seeker society certainly follows that Lion pack idea, with the females doing all the hunting as well.

It would make sense for the Moon Keepers to be equal in height, but they don't change those kind of things based on the sub-race.

Hyur are equal in height, right?
I feel like it stands out more that they're more equal and with less deviation compared to the non-hyur.
They look more cookie-cutter, while the gender difference does give the other races some identity (even the minor ones).

That's ignoring Lalafels, of course.
Cause they're so easy to ignore.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

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No, pretty sure Miqo'te having a height difference is because devs hardly ever bother to care about short men or tall women, it's kinda common in when people make stuff to do this. Really the only lion like thing about the Miqo'te is Sun Seeker culture, they're pretty generic Nekos outside of that. Plus I mean, if that's the case, why are Auri women so short? Succubi/Reptilian-esque-things aren't tiny little things. Same could be said about the Elezen (IE Elves) and Roegadyn, why are the women for the stereotypical "tall" and "Giant" races still shorter than the guys of that race?

Hyurs are not equal in height with their men and women. I'm not really sure how it causes the other races/hyurs to stands out more, Miqo'te and Hyurs have about equal amount of variation between their men and women (As in the max height of a M!Miqo'te compared to a F!Miqo'te is roughly the rame as a M!Midlander to a F!Midlander). I'm not sure why the more unique racial identities can't come from their height range in general, as opposed to this overall limiting idea of "Racial AND sex based height ranges".

Like, consider one of the most major complaints with the Au Ra is they're incredibly same-y when compared to Miqo'te and Elezen for the Auri women and men respectively, this is especially pounded in when the height ranges for girl Miqo'te and girl Au Ra are literally an inch apart (Though I'm not sure for the Auri men compared to Elezen to be honest). So, what's a good remedy for this? Make it so the height ranges, as the point of the thread, for the Au Ra go from the shortest girl to the tallest guy! No more "They're literally an inch apart" for the girls, because now the Au Ra's racial motif would "Has a massive height range for the men and women" as opposed to the overused "Short girl, tall men" motif. They could still keep the lore as it is by making it so it's a rare thing to see naturally in the world.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

No, pretty sure Miqo'te having a height difference is because devs hardly ever bother to care about short men or tall women, it's kinda common in when people make stuff to do this. Really the only lion like thing about the Miqo'te is Sun Seeker culture, they're pretty generic Nekos outside of that. Plus I mean, if that's the case, why are Auri women so short? Succubi/Reptilian-esque-things aren't tiny little things. Same could be said about the Elezen (IE Elves) and Roegadyn, why are the women for the stereotypical "tall" and "Giant" races still shorter than the guys of that race?

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Au Ra are demons.

They're not reptilian. And there are no rules on what size succubi can be. If anything, they're fairly normal sized, else they wouldn't be able to do what they exist to do. And if we're talking about the succubi mob, they're pretty small. Only the boss ones have been big.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

I think you're vastly overestimating how much of an issue it'd be, it's not like Roegadyn women look super wonky at either 1 or 100. Their heads might be a little big, but a full grown adult that's tall has generally have similar proportions of a full grown short person.

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You're not a big fan of comprehension, are you? Of course there aren't any proportion issues from 1-100... because their proportions are designed to work within that range. But if you tried making a female Au Ra as big as a the tallest male Au Ra, or a male Au Ra as small as the smallest female Au Ra, the proportions would be GROSSLY out of whack.

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Plenty of women can be taller than men, the max for girls being only average on the guys, as you're suggesting, doesn't solve this issue still. The point is for each race the minimum, median, maximum, et cetera heights for that race should be the same for men or women, you can go "Well, the average height for men and women is x and x of this race" and still allow a girl Miqo'te to be 5'8. There point is there's plenty of girls that are just as tall as tall as a lot of guys, just as there's plenty of short guys as short as, restricting the players ability to make something that's still within reason (IE girls as tall as the current max height for men and guys as short as the current minimum for girls) is silly an unneeded, hence the point of the topic. Making it so there's still a height difference just less of one, between the two doesn't solve any issue it just makes the problem slightly less worse.

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You're also not a big fan of reading either, apparently.

Yes, it's a well known fact that some women are taller than some men. But it's also a well known fact that men are generally taller than women. So there's nothing unrealistic about women being shorter than men in this game.

That being said, please note that I said for some races, it would work to allow them to have equal max and minimum heights (I specifically cited midlanders). And that I think they could at least change it so that the max female height is equal to the 50 male height.

What you're not getting is that THAT DOESN'T WORK FOR ALL RACES (there, I put it in caps and bolded it for you). Au Ra and Roes in particular, because their proportions wouldn't allow you to equalize their heights without dramatic and complete redesigns.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

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Au Ra aren't "demons" either, demons are voidsent and Au Ra aren't from the void. Their motif is "demonic" but that's only because just calling them dragons felt weird with Heavensward having lots of us killing dragons. The most recent concept art design, which closely resembles their current design, was still labeled dragon. Considering their current design is a meld of the "Demon" and "Dragon" option, they're Dragon/Demon themed. They're dragon/demon people in the same way Miqo'te are cat people.

Pretty sure the Succubi we've encountered have all been fairly tall, Elezen-esque looking women, who are bigger than Roegadyn, even the generic mobs. Pretty sure they're taller than Roegadyn even as "generic mob" status. Every voidsent in FFXIV exist to do one thing "Consume aether", so their "Super lanky Elezen Lady" look fits that very well. Voidsent who consume a lot aether get bigger and bigger and get more powerful (Ascians being an exception.. But they're odd ones). Average ones (IE generic mobs) still aren't anywhere near Auri women size or proportions, so even with a "Demon" motif they're still pretty small for a succubus esque demon lady.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

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Oh fun, Ad Hominem! Chill the heck out.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...ab8d1f43cf.jpg One of the various "Tallest men on earth" notice something? His proportions work pretty darn similar to the average guy on the left.. Just massive! Kinda similar to how it works in game. Yes, it'd look a little awkward with a 7'3 girl Au Ra, they'd be a good bit thicker, I'm not denying that, but their proportions wouldn't be "GROSSLY out of whack", it'd look wonky the same way how that tallest man in the world looks wonky.

I never said "It's unrealistic for men to be taller than girls", you're getting huffy and accusing me of not reading when you're putting words in my mouth. I've stated several times "Women can be as tall as men (And vise versa)", it's why I started the thread, because I think it's silly that girl PCs of a race can never be as tall as a boy PCs of the same race (And vise versa) and that's a nonsensical restriction.

I don't get why you'd talk about "at least" when you don't disagree with the idea with some of the races.

I'm pretty darn sure having the option to have a tall Auri women doesn't affect you in anyway, not like you'd have to deal with your Auri woman suddenly looking "GROSSLY out of whack", so... Why do you care so much if it supposedly "DOESN'T WORK FOR ALL RACES"? If it doesn't affect you in anyway and isn't something inherently bad, so why on earth do you care so much about it? Plus, you've yet to post any evidence that it's look "GROSSLY out of whack", it wouldn't be any different than how "GROSSLY out of whack" characters look when they're shrunk down or sized up using glitches/third party clientside options. With glitches in mind... http://embed.gyazo.com/37d9b98c82c5f...3957701936.png Does that really look "GROSSLY out of whack" with proportions? Let me answer that for you, no, it doesn't, because that's literally how the height already works for in this game. If you want to complain about proportions somehow becoming "GROSSLY out of whack", then you ought to start the campaign to change how "GROSSLY out of whack" the girl Roegadyn proportions are. By the way, no matter how much you want to say "Girl Roegadyn were MEANT to have a 1ft height range" it doesn't change the fact that a girl Roegadyn at 6'3 has the exact same proportions as one at 7'3 (So "GROSSLY out of whack" in your words.)

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

bunch of confusing randomness

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1) Did you even look at the picture? Robert Wadlow isn't even close to the same proportions.

2) "Looking awkward" (it wouldn't be "a little", it would be "quite") would be caused by being grossly out of proportion.

3) Having grossly disproportionate characters very much affects other people. You aren't the only person that sees your character. Unless you are never around any other player ever, others see your character. They can't "turn you off". And by your argument, we should be able to have nudity in the game. Having the option to be nude doesn't affect you in any way.

4) It would probably work fine to have same height for all races but Au Ra and Roegadyn. So in that you get no opposition from me. But it would not work for the aforementioned because of design choices SE made. You could not have a female Au Ra or Roe that is as tall as their male counterpart, or a male as short as their female counterpart without major proportion issues. And you seem to think that means an aesthetic problem... No. That would mean a modeling/hit box problem. If you tried to scale up a female Au Ra to the tallest male height, the proportions would not fit within their model and would go well outside hit box limits. As stated, they would have to completely redesign the race to accomplish what you want. They are never going to do that... especially for something as ridiculously minor as height.

I can't stand that Au Ra males have to be so tall. I'm a lil dude, my Miqote is my exact height. I wanna be a fun sized Au Ra!

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

Their motif is "demonic" but that's only because just calling them dragons felt weird with Heavensward having lots of us killing dragons. The most recent concept art design, which closely resembles their current design, was still labeled dragon.

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Someone obviously didn't do the Lv 50 DRK quest. Siggy will explain to you how the Au Ra were treated, especially in Ishgard.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

Au Ra are demons.

They're not reptilian. And there are no rules on what size succubi can be. If anything, they're fairly normal sized, else they wouldn't be able to do what they exist to do. And if we're talking about the succubi mob, they're pretty small. Only the boss ones have been big.

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That's just wrong. Now Yoshi said he said we could try to create a succbi like Au Ra, they are not demons. Looking demonic and being demonic are two completely different things.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

That's just wrong. Now Yoshi said he said we could try to create a succbi like Au Ra, they are not demons. Looking demonic and being demonic are two completely different things.

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Except Yoshi.P also said that they are in no way related to Dragons during a press event. As is also directly implied in their lore.

http://i.imgur.com/XMLFzo7.png

He has also said that they are more along the lines of demons. Not Dragons.

I also don't see anything that says that all demons have to be Voidsent. Hell Demon in general is a broad term, and so is Voidsent seeing as it is simply a term given to creatures that are too 'different' to be "of Eorzea", usually sent by some other evil force in the Void. (Cloud of Darkness. Hence voidSENT)

As someone put nicely on this Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...shgard/cr33ull

"The director and producer saying they are in no way related to dragons >>>>> the majority of people with no idea what they're talking about"

What this game already does is have somewhat equal hight between genders (if you go with F 100 and M 0):

http://i.imgur.com/1eFG1wm.jpg

Exception being Au'Ra.

Personally I don't think proportions would be an issue if you scale them up equally:

http://i.imgur.com/u6ko3Qw.jpg

A forum is there for suggestions and general feedback, I don't get why people feel the need to discuss technical side of things like they were the developers themselves. :rolleyes:

I don't see it as much of a problem as an artistic choice but I'm also all up for more character customization options.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

Au Ra are demons.
They're not reptilian.

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Before they had a name, the working title used by the designers creating the race we now know as "Au Ra" was "Dragon Race". It even shows up labeled as such on the concept art for them. It was indeed mentioned in an interview that according to how you choose to set up the character configuration, you can make them come out looking more succubi-like, but it's players who blew that way out of proportion and started acting like they were designed after succubi or demons. They weren't. Their design motif was dragons.

Now a design motif is not the same as lore. By lore they aren't related to either one (though some Ishgardians are against even coincidental similarities to their most hated enemy). They're their own unique race.

Personally i don't see issue with the heights in game. Its pretty much following the real world human heights with some NPC random exceptions with special body sizes. Yes they are not "normal" when it happens in real world that someone is suddenly 2.72 meter long. It is a super rare case which should not be included to game except for NPCs and their personal story

And normally females are shorter than males so i don't see the issue here.

About those rare long/short people
Unless you guys want that special snowflake stuff which would be weird because it is special case for a reason (no reason, just mistake in human genes/dna)

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Originally Posted by BunnyChain

Personally I don't think proportions would be an issue if you scale them up equally:

http://i.imgur.com/u6ko3Qw.jpg

A forum is there for suggestions and general feedback, I don't get why people feel the need to discuss technical side of things like they were the developers themselves. :rolleyes:

I don't see it as much of a problem as an artistic choice but I'm also all up for more character customization options.

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Wou that looks stupid. Like a little girl with just increased height.

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Originally Posted by Jin-

Wou that looks stupid. Like a little girl with just increased height.

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I disagree; in fact, I was surprised at how natural it looked, compared to what I expected. Even large-sized, the female Au Ra still has shoulders that are less broad than the male's; average torso width is similar as well, allowing for the female curvature. Arms and legs are about as long as the male's, though less muscular. The head looks like it might be a bit too large, but that might be an illusion caused by the hairstyles (the male's poofy hair likely makes his face look smaller than it actually is, while the reverse is true for the female's tighter 'do.) It looks fine.

Regardless, as I mentioned in another thread, I doubt there are ever going to be any changes of this kind on existing races. Plenty of people who designed their characters designed them because they liked the aesthetics they already have; change them around, and suddenly their characters don't match their vision anymore, through no fault of the player. Admittedly, something like this (increasing the height range) isn't quite so bad since it doesn't affect existing players, but I still don't see SE going back and making any adjustments at all to existing races.

The best we can hope for is that they'll do better next time. So, there's still value in making noise about it - it lets SE know that folks aren't happy with the decision they made, so they won't make the same decision next time. Just don't get your hopes up about actually changing Au Ra. The way they are now is how they're gonna stay.

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Originally Posted by BunnyChain

What this game already does is have somewhat equal hight between genders (if you go with F 100 and M 0)

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I think that's the very issue. OP & others would like the ranges to overlap, not "maximum value for females ends where the minimum for men begins".

Secondly, technical issues do block feature development. So yes, it's worth discussing (IMO anyways). If a dev swoops in to say "we can't do this for technical reasons" or even "actually we could do this pretty easily with our engine", it's not like no one will believe them.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I disagree; in fact, I was surprised at how natural it looked, compared to what I expected.

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I can think of 99 words to describe that upscaled Au Ra F and "natural" ain't one.

As in BunnyChain's image examples, I don't see how scaling them would be an issue. I also don't see why people are so much on the offensive AGAINST the idea of equal height options for all characters of the same race. If you don't like it, that's fine, but some people have the equivalent mentality of "I don't like it so I don't want to see it AND you're wrong for wanting it!" which is not cool.

If the sliders are the same, then the people who want really tall female characters can have that. The people who want really short female or male characters can have those. Everyone else who likes things the way they are can keep things the way they are.

LITERALLY EVERYONE WINS

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

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1) Here! Using the power of art programs... I did this! http://i.imgur.com/KbvXUry.png Note, he isn't 1:1 with the average sized man, but the major difference comes with how quickly his waistline comes to an end and how long his thighs are, but even at that, his knees aren't too far away from the other guy's. "Isn't even close to the same proportions" are big words when the main difference lies in his torso and thigh length, but for all we know Robert Wadlow's parents have short torsos and long thighs which could explain that.


2) Unless if you post evidence of how "grossly out of proportion" it'd look, you're just taking shots.

3) False equivalences, the reason we don't have nudity is because this is a T rated game.. Nudity would raise it to being an M rated on and that's poor business strategy, but hell, if this was an M rated game with the option to be nude, I'm fairly sure I'd go into the game knowing that there's gonna be nude people. Plus while we're talking about not liking what you see, I hate the super short, tween-sized, why should I have to deal with it?

4) Why on earth wouldn't it work for the Roegadyn? Girl Roegadyn literally just get 3 inches taller, that's not going to cause any major "odd proportion" changes that the opposition to the idea seems to be so cautious about. Also there wouldn't be a modeling/Hit box problem, every race shares the same hitbox, just a different model to represent that, otherwise way more people would play Lalafell because of the smaller hitbox. Like.. This isn't some FPS with headshots and bodyshot hitboxes, gear literally just snaps and molds to the body as it's done in this link featuring someone using an editor http://40.media.tumblr.com/b9790ff76...38vo1_1280.png

So, no "hitbox" problem, and you've yet to post proof of how the proportions would look so awful, however as another poster so kindly posted http://i.imgur.com/u6ko3Qw.jpg Everything looks pretty fine! The girl's head is a little wide, but nothing on them looks horrific.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

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Oh no I'm aware! Alaq and Sig's words on how the Ishgardians treated Au Ra are why I find the whole change from the theme of the Au Ra from Draconic to Demonic to be so bizarre, like, Ishgard literally killed them without mercy, just as they do to dragons, so players who are Au Ra would still feel odd in Ishgard, so why change it..? Plus it's not like literally every other encounter with Voidsent/Demons in the game doesn't result in us killing them, so that's pretty alienating as well if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

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Currently it's "debatable" in the lore. Yoshi-P hasn't said "They're demons", but he's definitely compared them to demons motif wise, you have to keep in mind he's speaking Japanese, don't take even translations for 100% certain. Given that the process for making the Au Ra went Dragon -> Demon Dragon mishmash (As the Demon concept art looks nothing like the current Au Ra but the labled Dragon race concept art looks incredibly close to the current Au Ra) it's not unfair to say they're dragon demon people in the same way people say Miqo'te are cat people.

Demon are a weird subcategory of Voidsent. In terms of Eorzea taxinomy, there's two categories for "Living" and Living which is Aetherical beings and then everything else. With Aetherical beings there's the separation between "Voidsent" and "Elementals", and with Voidsent; demons, Ahrimans, The Cloud of Darkness, and Ascians all fit in that broad category. All demons are voidsent, not all voidsent are demons however.

http://gamerescape.com/2015/06/18/lo...h-fernehalwes/ An interview with Fern describes how they're quite literally a mishmash of Demon and Dragon designs, his reasoning doesn't make much sense though considering the two Xaela Au Ra you meet in 3.0 (Note, not 3.05) talk about how the Au Ra were slaughtered from the get go by Ishgard.. Which would be pretty alienating if you ask me. Ferne is much more reliable when it comes to lore than Yoshi-P would be.. It's kinda his job (See his influence on Lore and all with regards to the Japanese Devs taking what the english translators did and then changed their stuff so it fit with the translation).

That said, can we just settle on calling them Dragon demon people like how I originally did? It's a nice synergy!

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Originally Posted by BunnyChain

What this game already does is have somewhat equal hight between genders (if you go with F 100 and M 0):

http://i.imgur.com/1eFG1wm.jpg

Exception being Au'Ra.

Personally I don't think proportions would be an issue if you scale them up equally:

http://i.imgur.com/u6ko3Qw.jpg

A forum is there for suggestions and general feedback, I don't get why people feel the need to discuss technical side of things like they were the developers themselves. :rolleyes:

I don't see it as much of a problem as an artistic choice but I'm also all up for more character customization options.

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See, my issue is hardly any guy I encounter who's at 0, while assuming I had the option to go 5'8, I definitely would with an alt I have.

Thank you for the image by the way, I was going to do that myself, but didn't get home til just recently~

The "suggestions and general feedback" forums are for the forums themselves, not the game, last time I checked, but it could've changed.

It's an artistic choice, I'm sure, but it's one that ultimately limits player freedom for very little reason, and I'd hope

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Originally Posted by Jin-

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Except plenty of women are easily dip into average men height range and same thing with men into average women heights, so why can't we? It's plenty realistic. Why do we have to limit girl PCs just because real life generally has girls that are shorter than guys? Not like we've got elezen, giants, cat people, and dragon demon people in real life, should we remove those racial options because "special snowflake stuff"?

I started this this topic because I'm a tall woman, 5'11, and I would like for the girls in the game to be as tall as the guys because it's more enjoyable for me is hardly "Special snowflake" stuff and me being tall isn't a "mistake in human genes/dna".


Yep, tween facial shapes are how Auri women look, that feel is a sure of a hell a lot lessened with them being massively tall though, plus it's better than just "little girl" only option. Shoot, I'd kill if SE introduced a more tough adult face for Auri women, chin crests, thick facial scales, low neotony, a fully scale covered neck, et cetera.. It's totally within their power and I know people have been asking for more facial options to match the male midlander's 6 for a long time.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

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I agree with every thing you said in your first paragraph, plus you gotta keep in mind, the models aren't perfectly lined up/scaled in the picture, so the head might be a bit bigger due to minor errors. Really seeing them scaled to the same height really hones in the whole "The Au ra don't actually have majorly different "body mass" just height" deal I've been going on about.. The Roegadyn though, even at the same height, guy Roes are like massive compared to the women.

I mean, making adjustments to the height slider seems to be so minimal in work (We can do it with 3rd party editors in clientside deals and we could do it with a glitch a while back) while also giving players even more options for aesthetic choice (Because oh hey! Now you can be pretty tall even for a Miqo'te or Auri woman!)

The thing is hoping doesn't get us much anywhere, and seeing as how the Auri women are so small because a lot of players play Miqo'te and Midlander, I highly doubt they'll listen to us. Dissatisfaction and asking SE to change every race to allow this does two things: 1) Opens up previous races to more players, a whole "Oh hey! I don't have to be shorter than every guy of my race so I don't have to be Roegadyn to feel tall!" and 2) Puts it as the basis so we don't have to worry about future races being "short girl, tall guy" only. It's really the best thing to continue pressuring SE for the change for all races, it solves dissatisfaction currently and assures the problem won't happen again. It's a whole "You miss every shot you don't take" scenario!

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Originally Posted by Dotsusama

As in BunnyChain's image examples, I don't see how scaling them would be an issue. I also don't see why people are so much on the offensive AGAINST the idea of equal height options for all characters of the same race. If you don't like it, that's fine, but some people have the equivalent mentality of "I don't like it so I don't want to see it AND you're wrong for wanting it!" which is not cool.

If the sliders are the same, then the people who want really tall female characters can have that. The people who want really short female or male characters can have those. Everyone else who likes things the way they are can keep things the way they are.

LITERALLY EVERYONE WINS

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Thank you! I mean really, I'm surprised that people are just "No." about it and they're talking about the scaling of all issues. I mean really, the major problems being keeping the NPCs from suddenly jumping around in height and SE having to give everyone a fantasia, but I'm sure there's a work around for the first one (Maybe updating only player character customization while leaving the NPC ones as a separate thing) while SE handing out a fantasia is hardly unheard of, who knows it might kickstart some fantasia addicts to start buying more.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I disagree; in fact, I was surprised at how natural it looked, compared to what I expected.

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That's because all that poster did was take a screenshot and enlarge it. They didn't actually scale up the model in-engine. If they had done the latter, you would see how utterly disproportionate it would be, and how it wouldn't fit within model parameters and the hit box.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Secondly, technical issues do block feature development. So yes, it's worth discussing (IMO anyways). If a dev swoops in to say "we can't do this for technical reasons" or even "actually we could do this pretty easily with our engine", it's not like no one will believe them.

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That's the thing... we don't need a dev to swoop in here and say it, because it's obvious to anyone with modeling experience.

That, and it was a design choice. They specifically decided to make a large size difference between Au Ra males and females. And there's no issue with the other races.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

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"Take a screenshot and enlarge it" You mean scale it to the size of the guy's picture right? Because that's literally what she did and that's literally how "height" in this game works. Heck I would search around for 3rd party software to do it myself, but I'm pretty sure it's against ToS to use something like that. Can you please explain, what on earth are you talking about with these "model parameters and the hit box", because currently it sounds like you're taking terms you know that are associate with models and are applying them to sound like you know what you're talking about. There's a universal hitbox in the game for players, otherwise you'd see people min maxing with Lalafell because of "smaller hitboxes" or with Roegadyn because "their large hitbox lets them have a larger reach for melee" or something.

Like seriously, literally every model in the game scales like this just fine, look at whenever a Roegadyn uses a chocobo compared to when a Lalafell uses a chocobo, they sure didn't redesign chocobos for the two of them despite massive size growth. Or what about Battle in Big Keep whenever you shrink down? It's not like the model looks off proportion or something, just small as heck. Or how about all the bosses which are just upscaled versions or mobs?

Don't act like you know so much about modeling yourself unless if you're going to go into depth about it instead of flinging out terms. Talk is cheap.

It was a design choice to not have girl Roegadyn or male Miqo'te, and we've got those in the game now, not like this would be the first time devs have gone back on "design choices".