FC Chest just gets raded, and GMs can do nothing.

yea when people join a FC, the new person doesn't get defaulted to the lowest rank, so you have to be actively aware and demote them immediately after joining, has been my experience.

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Originally Posted by DragonHunterG

yea when people join a FC, the new person doesn't get defaulted to the lowest rank, so you have to be actively aware and demote them immediately after joining, has been my experience.

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The trick to this is maintain the default rank as the lowest rank never modify it, they will always default to the one with circle and 4 triangles on it. This is the symbol will always be on that rank. Also there is a picture i believe posted by Spoon Son on Page 2 as "Trial Member".

Here is the symbol again in case people don't want to look back on the thread

http://i.imgur.com/q5pJ0cP.png

Also OP - I took a look at your FC on the loadstone. I would suggest talking to your FC leader and add more then 3 ranks.. The above symbol is the one ALL new members will start at.. which you have all your members at (minus the 17 officers you have). Usually that rank turns into "no authorizations" for most FC's.

All right. You guys win ¯\_( ツ )_/¯

Clearly its the consensus that immoral thieves should be allowed to get away with anything they want when someone makes a mistake. GM's have no right getting involved. Run wild and be free FC chest raiders; it's your time to shine!

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

All right. You guys win ¯\_( ツ )_/¯

Clearly its the consensus that immoral thieves should be allowed to get away with anything they want when someone makes a mistake. GM's have no right getting involved. Run wild and be free FC chest raiders; it's your time to shine!

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And you totally missed the point on how FCs work, so its no use in repeating over and over.

I like how the general theme in this thread is "fuck you." So, OP, I will sympathize with you. Sometimes it really sucks when people are allowed to walk away with crap like this. Even though you can prove and provide all the evidence, GMs let this stuff go. There's no reason something can't be done about this. For every person here that posted saying "you let it happen", I hope something bad happens to them and when it comes time for us to hear their complaints and stories of being done wrong, we can say "life's rough, deal with it."

Ah forums... You guys are all so wonderful and cheery. Remember kids: If you make a mistake or have a lapse in judgement, whatever happens to you is your fault, you were "asking for it" and you got just what you deserved. I hope all you "victim blamers" live by the code(s) you preach here on the forums.

Again, you are asking Square to be held liable for whoever set the rank settings. I can tell you quite a few who posted here live by what we posted. I can personally say we've never had anyone steal from us because we have multiple ranks in our FC!

If I messed up like this, I would NOT be here qqing because SE is not going to fix it.. Thats life.

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Originally Posted by Sub-Xero

Ah forums... You guys are all so wonderful and cheery. Remember kids: If you make a mistake or have a lapse in judgement, whatever happens to you is your fault, you were "asking for it" and you got just what you deserved. I hope all you "victim blamers" live by the code(s) you preach here on the forums.

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Well I mean the OP's complaint is just like handing a stranger the keys to your house and getting mad when they steal all of your stuff. SE already gave us the tools to prevent exactly this from happening and his FC leader apparently didn't make appropriate use of them. That's not SE's fault nor should SE waste GM manpower on policing this.

Well that escalated quickly.

mmm... yes... my good sir....

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Originally Posted by Sub-Xero

Snip

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There's a difference between being a victim and being negligent. Guess which one OP (or his FC or both) was? That's why he's getting so slammed on the forums right now. His FC was negligent and thus, this happened to them and they are trying to cry that they did nothing wrong.

Scenario
You've set your permissions perfectly. New members have zero access to your chest. One day you wake up to find an Officer that you've known since the start of the game has completely cleaned out your house of furnishings, booted everyone from the FC, and stole millions of loot from your FC chest.


Forum Answer: Oh well. We got what we deserved. No need to get a GM involved.

annnnd nothing much you can do other then blacklist and remove officer, cut your losses and move on. this is why you have to be a good judge of character.

Where is the second scenario so I can compare the two?

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Well that escalated quickly.

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Yeah... XD I suggest those who are using swear words, or over dramatizing the situation with phrases like "victim blaming", to take a deep breath. I'm sorry you guys are so upset! Some people think FC leaders should take responsibility for their own actions, that's all.

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

Scenario
You've set your permissions perfectly. New members have zero access to your chest. One day you wake up to find an Officer that you've known since the start of the game has completely cleaned out your house of furnishings, booted everyone from the FC, and stole millions of loot from your FC chest.


Forum Answer: Oh well. We got what we deserved. No need to get a GM involved.

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Well lets see.. This Scenario is HIGHLY unlikely. If its someone you have known for awhile comon now you are just nit picking and looking for trouble. If this is something that you are really concerned with.. Restrict access to removing people to the FC master alone. Problem solved, yeah then your out stuff but meh its stuff can be replaced but you do not loose your members. Not like gils really important in FFXIV anyways.. Lol

Did he take the whole chest?

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

Scenario
You've set your permissions perfectly. New members have zero access to your chest. One day you wake up to find an Officer that you've known since the start of the game has completely cleaned out your house of furnishings, booted everyone from the FC, and stole millions of loot from your FC chest.


Forum Answer: Oh well. We got what we deserved. No need to get a GM involved.

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Too bad that scenario is totally different from OPs case huh?

This is not a theft because the FC chest is a shared resource to be used by members of an FC. GM intervention can't happen because rules were not broken.
I don't think it's really possible for a theft to take place, it's all self-regulated. The user withdrew items from a chest they were granted access to.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

This is not a theft because the FC chest is a shared resource to be used by members of an FC. GM intervention can't happen because rules were not broken.
I don't think it's really possible for a theft to take place, it's all self-regulated. The user withdrew items from a chest they were granted access to.

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Nail on the head!

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Well I mean the OP's complaint is just like handing a stranger the keys to your house and getting mad when they steal all of your stuff. SE already gave us the tools to prevent exactly this from happening and his FC leader apparently didn't make appropriate use of them. That's not SE's fault nor should SE waste GM manpower on policing this.

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I think most of you are missing my point. Yes, it's disturbing that things were stolen, and that the GMs do not have the power to do anything, which basically means this type of behavior is allowed. Yes, it's a shame that the FC leader did not have the appropriate measures in place to prevent this from happening. It's also a bit concerning that this individual allegedly targeted other FCs as well. I suppose the devs can do with that information what they will. Even if new policies were put in place, it's not like they would go back and punish people that broke the new policies in the past. Everything that was stolen can be replaced.

However, I'm more interested in the fact the person that took the items were able to leave with parts that were bound to our FC. Since the parts were bound, it's not like they could sell them. Would he be able to use them on another airship, for a different FC? If so, then I'd consider that an oversight on the part of the developers. If this individual could neither use nor sell the parts, then I would assume he would be forced to discard them. If these parts have no use to anyone, outside of our FC, I really see no reason why they couldn't be returned. The FC that these parts are bound to should be in the item data, no? Therefore it wouldn't be difficult to find out where the parts came from. If not, again, that would be an oversight on the part of the developers.

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

Too bad that scenario is totally different from OPs case huh?

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It's actually exactly the same thing only a different scale. In both cases its blatant, obvious, harm being dealt to an FC. It's no different than a well-respected, well-loved Officer suddenly deciding to destroy all of your high-ranked airships, stealing everything they can, destroying everything that's left, and kicking every member below them.


Yes, they didn't break a single rule. The even had "permission" to. That doesn't change that fact that GM's should have the power to investigate and perma-ban these players due to extremely immoral, destructive, behavior. It seems like I'm the minority here. It should not be something that anyone should be able to get away with, ever.


Just because there's a system in place that prevents theft doesn't mean nothing should be done when theft happens.

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

It's actually exactly the same thing only a different scale. In both cases its blatant, obvious, harm being dealt to an FC. It's no different than a well-respected, well-loved Officer suddenly deciding to destroy all of your high-ranked airships, stealing everything they can, destroying everything that's left, and kicking every member below them.


Yes, they didn't break a single rule. The even had "permission" to. That doesn't change that fact that GM's should have the power to investigate and perma-ban these players due to extremely immoral, destructive, behavior. It seems like I'm the minority here. It should not be something that anyone should be able to get away with, ever.


Just because there's a system in place that prevents theft doesn't mean nothing should be done when theft happens.

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Refer to Rufalus's post #61.

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

It's actually exactly the same thing only a different scale. In both cases its blatant, obvious, harm being dealt to an FC. It's no different than a well-respected, well-loved Officer suddenly deciding to destroy all of your high-ranked airships, stealing everything they can, destroying everything that's left, and kicking every member below them.


Yes, they didn't break a single rule. The even had "permission" to. That doesn't change that fact that GM's should have the power to investigate and perma-ban these players due to extremely immoral, destructive, behavior. It seems like I'm the minority here. It should not be something that anyone should be able to get away with, ever.


Just because there's a system in place that prevents theft doesn't mean nothing should be done when theft happens.

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something tells me you have trust issues

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

Refer to Rufalus's post #61.

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And I'm saying it should change. Like FFXI, this type of behavior could be banned.

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Originally Posted by joshdavis271

something tells me you have trust issues

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It's called Justice for the deserving (^_^)

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Originally Posted by DarkDedede

However, I'm more interested in the fact the person that took the items were able to leave with parts that were bound to our FC. Since the parts were bound, it's not like they could sell them. Would he be able to use them on another airship, for a different FC?

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I think they can use them in another FC yes. I know when I dissolved my previous FC awhile back I was able to bring housing items from that house and place them in my new FC's house without any problems. They are not able to be traded or sold but are still completely usable by the person holding them. The rest of this would be nice but its coding and they are simply not going to do it.

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

And I'm saying it should change.

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I'm saying that you missed the point of the last 6 pages.

You see we have all these wonderful authorizations for the airship as seen below;

http://i.imgur.com/oLhi7Lx.png

If you have trust issues, which it seems you do, put your airship parts you are not using, on your retainer (since you are the leader of a FC) and don't allow anyone to have access to the "Airship Registration / Dismantling" so no one can dismantle the current airship(s) you are using

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

And I'm saying it should change. Like FFXI, this type of behavior could be banned.

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And I say again you like FFXI so much go play it. Every MMO changes, deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Maracrea13x

And I say again you like FFXI so much go play it. Every MMO changes, deal with it.

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Galactimus can reference my post #34 on this thread about FFXI

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

And I'm saying it should change. Like FFXI, this type of behavior could be banned.)

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In FFXI if you were shouting and selling something for say, a mil gil and you take the money and not deliver, yes thats should be bannable,now in ffxiv if someone steals from your chest its your fault cause you set the permission to do so, besides the guy who robbed the chest, wilbe taken care of without the GMs. The community will take care of trash like this.

Gms can't do anything in this case because nothing was stolen(you can't steal a shared resource you have permission to take), and no agreements were broken(I doubt you said to him to not raid the fc chest before he did it). It's as simple as that. The guys definitely a scumbag, but he did nothing technically wrong.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Well I mean the OP's complaint is just like handing a stranger the keys to your house and getting mad when they steal all of your stuff. SE already gave us the tools to prevent exactly this from happening and his FC leader apparently didn't make appropriate use of them. That's not SE's fault nor should SE waste GM manpower on policing this.

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It's more apt to say you have a BBQ and invite some people. Then one of those people comes in through the door, says 'hi', goes through your closet and grabs some things and then leaves -- not even ten minutes after arriving.

Sure, you can say it's your fault for inviting that person over. But you can still report him to the police where I live, who can charge him with either theft or a milder form of theft that google-translates to "arbitrary transaction" but basically means you're taking something that doesn't legally belong to you without requiring breaking in or anything like that. Even your parents can charge you with that if you abscond with things you think belong to you but legally belongs to your parents because you're younger than 18 years old. And since your parents usually give you a key to their house... that still applies to someone you invite into your house.

But I guess legalities differ between countries. For me, it seems like a clear thing that someone joining an FC, grabbing a bunch of stuff from the FC chest and then quitting the FC -- if reported by FC member(s) -- should be investigated, the items returned and the 'thief' receiving at least a warning (for future knowledge in case the same should happen again).
Sure, one should always make sure the entry rank doesn't have all the permissions that more trusted members have, but that's not always something you think about when you start an FC. Sometimes you realize it quickly, or before anything happens (usually because you hear about something like this happening to another FC), but sometimes you don't figure it out before something bad happens to you. Just like I wouldn't think to lock my closet when inviting people over to a BBQ unless something happened or I heard about something happening.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

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I'll play devil's advocate here. What if that new member that joined was the FC leader's alt and decided to cut ties with the FC after a fallout with OP? So now the GM is to ban the FC leader's alt (and possibly the leader as well) because OP said so and there's no chat logs to fall back on.

Not forgetting the fact that a conversation might've occurred non in-game bringing everything back to a "he-said she-said" situation which GMs won't and can't handle.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

Snip.

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First mistake you made in this post was comparing real life to a game.

Second, the OP's FC was established 9/18/2013. I would hope by now they would have realized they should have more than 3 ranks (according to loadstone, their entry rank is the only rank below officer that is in use).

Lastly, again I repeat myself, How can you tell Square YOU want the person held liable for something you gave them the keys to. Again, I go back to their establishment date and have no remorse for a Free Company that old. If this is their first incident with something like this, I would chalk it up to a lesson well learned. Also, I would add ranks above the starter rank if I was them so this will not happen again with someone just starting the free company Here is an alternative, move everyone to the officer rank and restrict access to the starting rank, or take away all permissions to the starting rank if they refuse to make more ranks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

I'll play devil's advocate here. What if that new member that joined was the FC leader's alt and decided to cut ties with the FC after a fallout with OP? So now the GM is to ban the FC leader's alt (and possibly the leader as well) because OP said so and there's no chat logs to fall back on.

Not forgetting the fact that a conversation might've occurred non in-game bringing everything back to a "he-said she-said" situation which GMs won't and can't handle.

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Couldn't say it better myself.

This is the fourth thread I've seen on the forums where an FC has been "robbed." In one case an Officer gave normal "Members" the ability to "Promote/Demote." The result was that a player with the Rank of "Member" was able to 'promote' his own alt to "Officer" and rob the FC blind. Oversight by the FC leader? Should a Member be able to raise his own rank higher than his current one?


My point is that people will always find ways to steal from you. GM's are supposed to have your back during cases of destructive behavior even when the normal rules of the game are not broken. I personally find the GM's in FFXIV take an extremely passive role when it comes to such actions.


And I'm not just praising Final Fantasy 11 GM's; it's just the easiest one to relate people to since it's made by the same company, mirror's the same subscription model, and uses so many of the same elements. Rift, Eve, and Everquest Online Adventures had amazing GM's too (SWG definitely having the worst by far.) In Rift they would do anything for you. In Eve GM's would go out of their way and send YOU tells asking if everything was "cool" without you even asking. I've already talked about my Everquest experience in this thread.


Actions taken for the sole purpose of scamming, cheating, or stealing need repercussions. We have all the information logged, we have GM's, and we have people committing offenses for the sole purpose of causing grief. There's no reason why such situations should not at least be investigated at a basic level to deter people from trying to perform the same actions in the future.

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

Snip.

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Ok, heres how the officers being able to give members the ability to promote, if you give officers the ability to edit RANK SETTINGS then they can change the settings of all ranks in the FC except master. This is the ability that you should always reserve for yourself alone. NEVER give it to any one other then yourself. Promotion is kinda wonky in FFXIV yes. If you can promote you can do any rank other then master in the FC, which I do not like but it is what it is. But if you give permission to promote and demote to officers then it takes stress off of you to have to promote everyone yourself, but members will not be able to promote themselves, if you do not enable this for them.

ummm Who would be stupid enough to give a member the ability to promote/demote? That is the dumbest thing to do and yes that is an oversight of the FC leader. and again taking "SHARED ASSETS" IREPEAT "SHARED ASSETS"!!! is not stealing. again the leader should think carefully about what each permission you give random ranks.