FF has also had flying mounts before. And dragon mounts too (though I think these were only used in cutscenes). Just because these weren't in FFXI or XIV 1.0 doesn't suddenly make them "not FF-like".Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
Did Yoshida went a bit too far by cloning WoW?
Printable View
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07-26-2015, 07:18 PMGilthas
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07-26-2015, 07:20 PMElHeggunteWhy are you do desperate to call FFXIV a WoW clone? You keep using piss-poor examples that only show vague similarities. Of course FFXIV has a few similar elements to WoW. Most modern MMOs share a few similarities with it. Just like WoW shares things with the games that predate it. But having a handful of things being similar doesn't make something a clone. There are far more things different between the two than there are similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
That doesn't make it a WoW clone. That's more about showing the team how a well-made game looks and plays, not necessarily that he intended for them to copy everything and give if a coat of Final Fantasy paint. That's common practice in the field of things like developing games and making movies. You have your people look at what works and (hopefully) use those ideas to go in your own direction.Quote:
as yoshida told his dev team to play lots of WoW.. and he even stated that.
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07-26-2015, 07:20 PMNadirah
To many folks, all games are wow clones.
Truth is, wow is an everquest clone. Which was an ultima clone. And so forth.
Wow borrows from other games as much as any other borrows from wow. The much lauded purchased level 90 characters? EQ2 did it first. And cheaper.
And OP picked the most awful, boring UI setup for comparison. That's not the default UI. It's a shittily modded one. -
07-26-2015, 07:21 PMDaraliihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OODPo9fzk0QQuote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
There was so much copied and pasted terrain that it's mind boggling. 1.0 did some things well that ARR/HW didn't, but terrain is not one of them. -
07-26-2015, 07:21 PMGilthasUmmm, both FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 were very different from the offline FFs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
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07-26-2015, 07:22 PMAdamFyiQuote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
Jokes aside;
That's based on opinion. For some people who have not touched or have lightly touched on WoW, they might think otherwise. As some others have said, if this isn't to your tastes, just quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
I was rather enjoying what you were touching on and you pulled up some good points - but then I stopped reading here. There is no point in having everything now-now-now. What's with that mentality?Quote:
Originally Posted by Havenae
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07-26-2015, 07:22 PMTonkraoh you are not talking about the scenery of FFXIII where they fall down and fang is summoning bahamut to catch them. flying mounts confirmed in FF series ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Gilthas
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07-26-2015, 07:24 PMGilthasNope, was talking about FFII and FFV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
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07-26-2015, 07:24 PMTonkrajust because it has to be realtime for an MMO... FFXI for example had at least the same menu as within the offline titles:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilthas
http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...FXI_Battle.jpg -
07-26-2015, 07:24 PMVespar
You really need to learn the definition of clone my friend.
clone = identical
None of what Ive seen in FFXIV is identical to WoW. They may have similarities but so does every other game in existance.
Thats like saying Killzone cloned Call of Duty or Dragon Age cloned Skyrim. -
07-26-2015, 07:25 PMAdamFyiI think he's legitimately trolling at this point, judging by his recent posts. Best to just stop and ignore. :0Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespar
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07-26-2015, 07:26 PMGilthasLol, so FFXI and XIV are closer to offline FFs because of a bad UI?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
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07-26-2015, 07:26 PMTonkraAnd why are you so desperate to say that FFXIV didnt clone anything from FFXIV huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElHeggunte
If you had played the offline titles, FFXI and FFXIV 1.24 you obviously would see how much FFXIV ARR is driven by WoW.
and i wouldnt say that for example ESO is sharing much with WoW other than being the same genre..
i said: for example... and i cant explain a whole game to you if you havent played it..Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilthas
And yes.. FFXIV Combat system -> 1:1 WoW Combat system. -
07-26-2015, 07:27 PMGilthasIf anything, you're the one that hasn't played much of the offline titles given your ignorance of so many FF elements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
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07-26-2015, 07:28 PMKaedanYou could cherry pick the same design/textures being used 10s if not 100s of times in different areas in any MMO... hell, any game in existence. Hence the accusations are hyperbolic. The one place I do agree there was too much repetition was Gridania. But all games use the same textures, just flipped and/or spaced out in such a way that it's not as noticeable... though console games are the worst by far. You can usually see literally the exact same building several times on the same block.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
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07-26-2015, 07:29 PMHavenaeIt's not about having everything now.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamFyi
It's about creating an enjoyable experience where players actually want to be in your game world without needing to feel like you have to keep them there with unnecessary restrictions. To me it's essentially like if you're married, and before you leave for work every day you lock up the house so your wife can't leave you while you're away.
Are there people who are just going to grind grind grind and get everything asap? Sure. Chances are though those people are going to get bored and move on to something else regardless of what you do though because they don't care as much about stopping to smell the roses. It's just an achievement point to them. Chalk that up to another negative influence of the WoW design philosophy "The real game starts at end game."
All I'm trying to to say is in the end all capping things is doing is punishing the people who are legitimately there to take their time and enjoy your product. And to a degree it tells me they don't have a whole lot of faith in the content they're pumping out to retain subscriptions. -
07-26-2015, 07:35 PMElHeggunteThe menus were a nightmare to deal with so 99% of players did everything via macros anyway, which more or less gave us a half-assed version of the hotbars most MMOs use now. I wont even get into how the macro system was so poor that a lot of players had to use 3rd party tools to make them useable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
I never said it didn't. I even said they share similarities in the part of my post that you quoted. But having similar elements doesn't make something a clone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
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07-26-2015, 07:38 PMShougunTextures and even models are expected to be reused you're comparing an accepted game standard to one that imo isn't normally expected. I'm used to seeing the same building, tree, or chain mail pattern a few times, I am not used to seeing the same exact cave tree grass and shore side view three times in a row (or when I do it is a bit jarring, human brains pick out patterns pretty well - you have to be clever with your copypasta). http://kotaku.com/5636464/this-part-...eems-familiar/ (google searched, some are not accurate though xd).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaedan
Not saying it made the game terrible, I like the higher entity count in 2.0 but I thought 1.0 was quite pretty too. Just saying that FFXIV 1.0 was abnormally copy paste. Maybe I'm just picky with my graphics (major sell point for me over any other MMO, not only point), I generally do notice the same tree model or think of what angle they placed it from the last one but it was a bit much in 1.0 (still liked it tho). -
07-26-2015, 07:40 PMTonkraim not saying a clone either.. i said (headline) did he went too far by cloning WoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElHeggunte
Which means did his team cloned too much from it? Gameplay wise etc.
because for me it more and more feels like WoW.. how the whole game is based on a specific system.. we have ilevels now, ilevel resets just like in WoW. that combat system is nothing different to wow instead of making something own.
and building TP up in order to use special abillities which for me fits more what FF combat feels like (my opinion).
not trolling, at this point im just very disappointed and frustrated.. when i look back and what it became now. thats all.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamFyi
thats the way _I_ feel. im sorry if that doesnt fit your personal opinion.
i could say the same about you who doesnt even admit the most obvious things (like UI and stuff).. -
07-26-2015, 07:42 PMTheUltimate3
As a person who has played WoW for something along the lines of 5-8 years (I've played ever expansion, though the shortest extent was Cataclysm), mechanically speaking, yes FFXIV is a wow clone. The interface is simple and easy to understand (Largely modeled off of WoW), follows the Holy Trinity (Not started by WoW of course), and it follows the Gear Treadmill (I believe it was started with WoW but hell if I can remember).
That being said, context is key. The fact that this game was nothing like WoW in 1.0 and it failed means that grandiose risks could not be taken, thus anyone expecting the entire paradigm of MMO design to shift with XIV was deluding themselves, but the game does a few things that set it apart, such as the "be every class thing", the removal of of talents and perks (because really those are pointless), and that lovely FFXIV story feel, which gives me high hopes for their ability to tell a story (and contrary to popular belief, while a lot of the story is told through Quest Texts, a lot of WoW's story now is told via the questing experience very similar to XIV. In fact, the quality of the story after hitting level cap notwithstanding, how they presented the story was fine in WoW in Draenor).
That being said, if you were expecting a XI sequel, you were setting yourself up for disappointment as XI took lots of queues from the EverQuest era and such gameplay is just not popular anymore. This game was designed with a lot of queues from WoW. If adding things like horses and griffons take away from the Final Fantasy feel...then I honestly don't know what to say. I have yet to see an actual damn horse in the game (elemental primal horses don't count as a horse. It's a primal elemental horse. And neither does a griffon. If there are actual horses in this game please let me know. If a snow covered north is a problem, then there is a mountain in Spira with large blue furred people that I suggest you don't go visit. -
07-26-2015, 07:47 PMEye_Gore
Couldn't any game be considered a clone of one that preceded it in the genre? Especially one that just about was the first to set a standard. Take a FPS game, they are pretty much all the same. I could put on any one of them, pick up a controller and know very quickly what to do. All the controls are similar, items in game are similar, the point of the game is the same. It makes transition easier for people, instead of having to get to know a whole new system, which alot of people won't do, because is not what they are use to, they may just put it down and never play again. When you get a new game that the mechanics, controls, items, leveling etc are familiar to people, they'll keep playing. Tweak some of the things to make it its own, but keep it familiar.
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07-26-2015, 07:50 PMTonkraA primal elemental horse isnt a horse huh ok^Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUltimate3
and yes it slightly does it unfortunatley (taking away the feel) especially by comparing the atmosphere of 1.25 with that of ARR.
Shiny glowy "My little ponys" arent something that makes it better.
no it isnt about a snowy covered mountain... i could also have post an other environment picture. i meant because of the looks and took a similiar tooking picture of wow, thats being about it.Quote:
If a snow covered north is a problem
Isnt there a "normal" horse in it, i mean like this? ;DQuote:
If there are actual horses in this game please let me know.
i myself do have it
http://www.finalfantasy.net/wp-conte...horsemount.png
i myself do have it..^^
i understand what you are saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eye_Gore
But i dont think that WoW was an EQ clone... nor ESO being a wow clone. so yeah ;D -
07-26-2015, 08:08 PMGilthasBut I did play them, that's why I know your arguments are pretty meaningless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
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07-26-2015, 08:10 PMKathryn
OP I cannot agree with you more I find the combat in 2.0 complete and utter shite compared to what 1.0 was and its boring me to death, I literally am bored of this game I was never a crafter always an adventurer as I loved to be in 1.0 exploring and fighting monsters who were probably going to kill me.
Yoshi did well by this game but he has gone abit too far with the WoW comparisons as I cannot stand WoW and im slowly beginning to hate this game and its vertical gear progression aswell as my lack of care for the enviroments, You definately get my +1 OP sorry to all you naysayers but this games gone down hill alot. -
07-26-2015, 08:26 PMAeyisNature likes to copy paste. If you want natural landscapes, then you will need to copy paste to some extend. Its interesting that people use the copy paste argument as a reason tho. I dont think they looked on the current maps; there is plenty of copy pasting in 2.0 and 3.0 as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisshu
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07-26-2015, 08:29 PMElazu
This forum needs a downvote button.
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07-26-2015, 08:31 PMShougunYeah but it isnt as obvious, well most of it. 1.0 had a number of extremely obvious locations, then some that were well done but you could tell had similar structure. Well done similarities are acceptable but that is not what people think of for 1.0. It wouldn't be such a popular thing to mention if it was done really well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
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07-26-2015, 08:34 PMColt47
What they did is look at the gameplay from WoW, built a battle and communication system similar enough to it that those who are familiar with the game can pick it up, and built their typical Final Fantasy story around it. The game is good, but the issue right now is that they haven't overhauled crafting quite right and end game is probably the worst aspect of the entire title.
**********Lengthy part*****************
The big issue is they needed to have looked at other titles for effective inventory and gear management. They intended people to turn older armor into materia to be used in newer armor, thus reduce clutter. However, while anyone can make materia, only crafters can put materia into armor. This makes crafting materia invaluable and combat materia of dubious value to most people unless they can justify the effort to find a crafter to put materia into the armor. That and with multiple classes running on the same character, the game sort of pushes people to keep older armor until all classes that use the older armor have been leveled up.
Crafting itself would be okay if they had taken a page from WoW and kept unique milestone recipes at every stage of the crafting. That way people could sell something worthwhile on the Market boards for glamour purposes while leveling up and make money. As it stands, all unique recipes are at end game, which, as time goes on, makes the end game crafted items the only thing worth making, since the turn ins to NPCs for other goods is a static money source. They also made crafts too interdependent for the amount of time required to level each one. This is largely because the only differentiating factor between npc goods and player ones is if the item is HQ so you need to get abilities from multiple crafts to really be effective at it and make some decent items.
So in a nutshell, play if you want to level multiple combat oriented jobs and complete a somewhat good story campaign. The rest needs a heck of a lot of loving to get up to speed and keep people really working at the game between content patches. -
07-26-2015, 08:36 PMKathrynFor posts like these?, I disagree there's far more trolls on these forums who would just downvote everything for the hell of it these days this post needs more damned upvotes as the game is by far lacking in its potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elazu
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07-26-2015, 08:39 PMEye_GoreEven Bob Ross had similar looking mountains. That guy was the man, but how much can you make a mountain scape unique, eventually they all look the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
For the youngins:
http://i.imgur.com/z3oqEIY.jpg -
07-26-2015, 08:41 PMDaraliiYou're assuming that the English CMs would relay this to SE, as I sincerely doubt they read the English forums themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathryn
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07-26-2015, 08:41 PMReinha
Differences between wow and ff14:
Story gated content and areas.
Story quality. Wow had to introduce time travel cause they ran out of ideas....
Edit. story presentation and side stories too, like the amount of cutscenes, class quests and max level quest lines.
Factions. Horde and Alliance can't group up, and on some realms they can kill each other.
Content differences: fates, hests, clan marks and group hunts, trials VS world bosses, scenarios and rare mobs.
Professions, gathering.
Housing.
Combat speed.
Class rotations. Apart from maybe WHM, BRD and SMN there's no loose wow equivalent to the classes.
Tank's primary job being holding aggro by following the rotation and watching the enmity bars VS aggro being trivial and the primary focus being "active mitigation", i.e. using short cooldown abilities to even out damage spikes.
Healers having decent dps in ff.
Armory system.
Character creation details. Amount of different races.
Wow has a longer patch cycle and more focus on raid content. Ff is better for casuals.
Wow allows the use of addons like ui mods and dps meters, ff doesn't but it comes with more ui customization.
These differences in gameplay and content are very apparent to anyone who has played both games. The only similarity I can think of is a couple of creature skins, the huge amount of colors in their art and that they both have quests, instanced pvp, dungeons and raids. Calling ff a clone because it has some basic mmo elements that wow also has is a bit of an exaggeration. -
07-26-2015, 08:52 PMNamNem
All MMOs follow a similar path. Open World is not a bad thing, but it needs to be limited in MMO cases, because a linear progression system is needed. Most people would feel overwhelmed trying to level up if it the story did not steer them in the correct direction. WoW did a lot right. It also did a lot wrong. MMOs are trial and error, but people have to stop comparing one MMO to another. This is FF and that is WoW. Although, they might share characteristics, but they are completely different games.
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07-26-2015, 08:52 PMElazuFor posts that state 1.0 had good combat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathryn
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07-26-2015, 09:14 PMKathrynIt was a lot better than what we have now but each to their own opinions I have mine and you have yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elazu
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07-26-2015, 09:16 PMRumpelstiltzkinIt really is a WoW clone, but with a twist of having storyline. Yoshida has even said he is not out to make anything new, just take from other games and mostly he just took it all from WoW. I am not even saying that is bad, it is what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespar
It is a lack of originality, that does not have to be a bad thing always, but in the case of XIV it is borderline just because they took it very far. As for outdated gameplay mechanics I've heard it by several people before on these boards, which is just funny because if you think WoWs gameplay mechanics is anything but outdated since several years you are just putting your head in the sand and quite frankly XIVs version of it is a bad clunky version even which is just worse. It just has other qualities which make up for it overall compared to WoW, like graphics/music/storyline and the fact that it isn't more than a decade old, people get bored after a while regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilthas
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07-26-2015, 09:33 PMChewy2ndI suppose each to their own, but there was nothing fun about five minute long battles with just normal overworld enemies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathryn
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07-26-2015, 09:48 PMFelisI see no difference to 1.0 story tasks like: "go to Mor Dhona and bring me some unaspected crystals" or "go to the Black Shroud and kill 2 wolfes" (many CS about a Migho resistance group you have to help, rescue one of their members and then you just kill 2 wolfes within 15 seconds and it was finished. Next MSQ in 3-4 levels).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
The difference is that the story in ARR also help you to level up your class, while in 1.0 it just gave you some CS between the leve grinds. What 1.0 MSQ lacked was battles that you can't win within 15 seconds or with parley. And the "needed level to next story quest" range was too high..
And yes, the graphic in 1.0 was the best, but played on a regular PC like ARR on PS3. And sometimes a christmas tree melded down your graphic card. -
07-26-2015, 10:01 PMDefias
So you want an online MMO to play like an Offline RPG, be very inaccessible to the mass populace, have very little variety in mounts, & be tedious to navigate.
Honestly...you want 1 mount for a persistent online world to try & avoid coping another game?
Well by that right the Final Fantasy series, and every medival RPG are just copies of Dungeon & Dragons.
Look at MMOs like Vanguard & WildStar. The time of EQ1, FFXI MMOs are over with.
Todays world/society does not fit those gameplay styles anymore.
I played WOW, EQ2, & SWG (pre-NGE) for years.
This game feels like WOW in Boss fights, ease/speed of travel, & streamlined gameplay only.
The crafting & gathering is not as fun & simple as WOWs.
Classes are basically LOCKED into their roles unlike in WOW.
Character creation is extremely in-depth unlike in WOW.
The Storyline is overall told/presented better. WOW didn't become cinematic until Wrath of The Lich King and many folks will argue that WOW ended in the Expansion.
If ARR had launched and played like XI...then we would not be having this discussion, Square-enix would be out of business and we'd probably be on ESO's forums arguing on how IT's coping WOW. -
07-26-2015, 10:06 PMChewy2nd
XIV 1.0 may have been graphically impressive, but artistically and in terms of level design? No
Which looks more fun to explore?
This
http://i.imgur.com/lyjcP2V.jpg
or this?
http://i.imgur.com/aROBXbc.jpg