Astrologian "BUFFS"

I don't think we will have mp issues anymore. I mean: we have lightspeed, ewer and Luminiferous... mp management should not be a problem anymore.

But now our all utility(cards) that was rather mediocre, will be going all into spread + shuffle often to get mp refresh buff, so that we have enough mp pool to deal some dps(that is still lower compared to other healers), and to heal(when healing is still lower than other 2 healers).
I think changes are okay. But there are still dozens of issues: nocturnal stance and time dilation, collective unconscious is still pretty worthless. Who the hell is going to stand in 8 yard tiny bubble to be healed 200 potency each 3 seconds?

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Originally Posted by razzgrizz3

they did nothing to royal road just switched which card burning does what.
pre patch -ewer and spire = duration extension
-spear and arrow = party spread effect
post patch -ewer spire = party spread effect
-spear and arrow = duration extension

why the hell even do this and mess with our muscle memory?

its like them saying "HEY GUYS we are doing changes we are doing it we are doing something!! guys? guys...?"

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hmm as someone pointed it out in another thread, RR change is actually a buff.
Generally Arrow/Spear > Ewer/Spire in terms of usefulness, while Expand>Extend in 8 man, RR change allows us to expand more freely.

The changes to Lightspeed and the cards seem quite decent to me (downloading patch atm).

Concerning dem flames about Nocturnal, they said some time ago, that they'd target Cards, Spread, Shuffle, Lightspeed, CU and CO. Nocturnal was not mentioned, probably because they want to wait for Alex-Savage - as many before already said. Which is in my opinion better than buffing too mcuh and nerfing half of it a week after...

I don't know, why they didn't touch CO or why they "only" buffed the Diurnal version of CU, maybe not nuff time? Maybe they want to wait for Alex - Savage too?..
AST will probably get some changes with 3.1 as they announced that they'd observe ALL classes in Alex - Savage.

So stop qqing :P

Edit: Please don't take me on that Italic line. I read it somewhere, but can't recall where T_T

The changes are a bit meh. Its maybe edging towards being able to replace a WHM, still not there yet. As for replacing SCH with AST atm, that is not going to happen. Its not enough to even make AST compete for a progression raid slot as healer. Some of us SCH would be like to be able to switch to AST for raids........AST is still not on the level of WHM or SCH even with these changes. (And yes, i am purely analysing this in terms of progression based raid healing).

Spire is 30/tic (buffed for the most part). Testing Ewer now.

Edit: Ewer is a refresh potency of 30. 265 per tic at 60.

Yesterday I was really wondering if I my static would want me as sch or ast for savage depending on the buff AST gets. Well not wondering anymore. Kinda disappointed.

Well at least they changed tp/mp reduction to refresh effects and reduced the shuffle cooldown (but well we probably can still draw the same card twice) At least I'd have hope for a small draw cd reduction too.
Other than I really hope this wasn't all and they're just waiting for some savage playerfeedback.

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Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

Spire is 30/tic (buffed for the most part). Testing Ewer now.

Edit: Ewer is a refresh potency of 30. 265 per tic at 60.

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This is...slightly concerning. I've been against swapping the reductions for refreshes out of fear of eliminating the BRD/MCH raid niche, and these refreshes seem pretty potent, considering their uptime.

I guess the good thing is that since most of their stuff is still borked no one will replace BRD/MCH with an AST because nobody wants to raid with an AST. LOL. I had been waiting for changes to make my final decision, but if this is the only bone we got then it's official - I'm going back to SMN for Alex Savage. Nocturnal Sect still being unusable is what did it for me; my cohealer is a WHM.

lightspeed isnt a healing cooldown you geniuses.


All it does now is give 1 free spell every time it gets off cooldown, assuming you chaincast during the duration.

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Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

Spire is 30/tic (buffed for the most part). Testing Ewer now.

Edit: Ewer is a refresh potency of 30. 265 per tic at 60.

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wow... nice MP regen. I supose that is the main reason SE changed the RR effect of spire/ewer, because a powerful card should be too the most powerful royal road effect in 8 man party.

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Originally Posted by Arcana

because a powerful card should be too the most powerful royal road effect in 8 man party.

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Expanded isn't the most powerful. At least not when realtime RNG is factored in. I mean sure, a perfect run of getting a spear/arrow for RR then an arrow/balance was the best, but the moment you got anything else that expanded RR was going to do more harm than good. Though at least it won't be as bad with spire/ewer being refresh now. I think it would still be better to hit people individually with ewer/spire as needed in most situations though.

Pretty disappointing. Glad I leveled up White Mage too. The utility on the cards is nice. But when it comes to bleeding edge progression, you bring classes that can hold their given role. AST is not the appropriate healer for a Savage raid at this point.

Lightspeed. Not entirely what I hoped for (turn this into healing potency buff), but I'll take it.

Ewer card changes. Duration reduction is not the right direction to take in my opinion, when you're trying to keep up during heavy healing phases.

Royal Road. Literally just switching effects.

Spread ・Can now be used outside of combat. Thank RNGSUS.

Shuffle ・Recast time reduced from 90 to 60 seconds. Another change that should have been in from the start, but oh well.

Collective Unconscious ・Potency of the regen effect from Diurnal Sect has been increased from 150 to 200. I'm okay with this.

A little thing about Lightspeed: Using celestial opposition extends the duration by 5 additional seconds. It used to before also, but now you can potentially cast lightspeed, then instant aspected helios + CO and you get additional 2 spells(possibly?) to cast instantly under light speed. In some situations its very powerful, like in large AoE's running around and casting helios or benefic II on people

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Originally Posted by Akyio

A little thing about Lightspeed: Using celestial opposition extends the duration by 5 additional seconds. It used to before also, but now you can potentially cast lightspeed, then instant aspected helios + CO and you get additional 2 spells(possibly?) to cast instantly under light speed. In some situations its very powerful, like in large AoE's running around and casting helios or benefic II on people

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Lightspeed is now very potent and the complaint spam threads should stop once people get in savage and see that astrologian is as strong as the other healers. Especially since our cooldowns are now on par.

You are mad if you believe that these buffs "change nothing". Get a grip please.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

You are mad if you believe that these buffs "change nothing". Get a grip please.

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Seems like the one who is always mad have a complaint for every positive thing an Astrologian brings. As people told me in the past how do I know how well certain jobs will perform because we do not. Until they get data from savage all of these silly complaints is nothing. Astro regen is now stronger then white mage. I was within 100 HPS to most white mages during high damage spikes so far in the story mode raids. To say we cannot bring the healing is preposterous. Light speed is now a changer since it no longer reduces potency on healing.

And if you would look you would see astrologians out number scholars played now in prime time on the 3 servers I play mostly. Two of them being the top pop servers so that is a pretty good indication of how many people think the astrologian is compared to scholars.

Do people really think these buffs dont help AST much? These seem like they could really help some of the bigger problems people were having.
Lightspeed can now be used as emergency heal
Ewer now actually helps with mp management
Some of the card issues were fixed

Yes AST might still need some buffs but they are probably waiting until after they see how it performs in Gordias before making further changes, just like they are for every other class

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Astro regen is now stronger then white mage. I was within 100 HPS to most white mages during high damage spikes so far in the story mode raids. To say we cannot bring the healing is preposterous. Light speed is now a changer since it no longer reduces potency on healing.

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Except its not? CU has a 1400 tick at i185, DS+regen has a 1400 tick at i185 AND I CAN STILL MOVE. And don't even get me started on radius.

Lightspeed buff is complete trash, there is not a single place where you'll have to spam healing that much within 10 seconds, at most it will be used on emergencies or when burst healing is necessary.

And the best of all buffs, Ewer refresh rate. That 30 potency is so bad my passive mp regen doesn't beat it by 8 mp, i can't wait for astrologians to tell their tanks and dps "sorry had to sacrifice a bole/balance because i needed mp"

Very happy to see the adjustments to Lightspeed and refresh added to Spire/Ewer. Overall, pretty happy, but still wondering why Nocturnal Stance exists.

Lightspeed could very well be the most potent and flexible emergency cooldown available. Excited to play with it more now.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

Lightspeed buff is complete trash, there is not a single place where you'll have to spam healing that much within 10 seconds, at most it will be used on emergencies or when burst healing is necessary.

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>> Loads of AST complaining for the lack of burst healing and emergency CDs
>> Get burst healing and emergency CDs (with reduced mana costs and zero cast time)
>> Complain because those skills can now be used for that

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...ll-of-fuck.jpg

Lightspeed doesn't increase your output in any way. All it does is make all your heals frontloaded.
While it's definitly better than it was before it's nowhere near as good as WHM/SCH options.
Spire is okay, half a goad.
Ewer is meh, it's only going to get worse as we get more MP.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

>> Loads of AST complaining for the lack of burst healing and emergency CDs
>> Get burst healing and emergency CDs (with reduced mana costs and zero cast time)
>> Complain because those skill can now be used for that

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...ll-of-fuck.jpg

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While lightspeed buff is nice, let's say that the Tank is taking huge amounts of burst damage and your essential dignity was already used up. Is lightspeed going to save the tank? There were times where the tank was being damaged more than my benefic II and yes, the situation is probably avoidable. But the difference between us and other healers is that they have emergency skills for these situations while we honestly don't have much security. If anything, lightspeed has become a sustain skill for our mp which is nice.

my inner sense is telling me that Astro's feel that being the new job they should do everything better then white mage and scholar because that seems to be where all of this complaining is heading.. So what if Astro is a higher coordination job then others. Balance is strong if you coordinate with your team to time its use for a person before they pop cooldowns which stack with balance. Bole I will admit is shuffle fodder but I throw spear on myself before i use cooldowns or a machinist that I know.

My contribution with cards with a team i normally run with has been established as higher then some people conclude. It has increased the damage of my machinist friend by 250 dps during a run which is roughly half of what a scholar brings in self dps. I also do throw out dots and a few Malefic casts which keep me at a constant 300 ish dps through out the runs. Alex story is another matter but so far I do not see scholars contribute more then 150 dps overall during the fight. Healing until we outgear it is even a higher focus for scholars now then putting out 500 dps.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

And the best of all buffs, Ewer refresh rate. That 30 potency is so bad my passive mp regen doesn't beat it by 8 mp, i can't wait for astrologians to tell their tanks and dps "sorry had to sacrifice a bole/balance because i needed mp"

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"Sacrificing Bole/balance" is overreacting lol. All of the cards are situational. Not like you always have to use Bole/Balance every single time anyways. Personally, I put Ewer in Spread and keep using Draw+RR like normal till my MP dropped, then depend on the next RR be it double duration or more potency, can just toss ewer in. 30 potency is weak, yeah, but toss in double duration and it's much better lol.

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Originally Posted by Pharmacies

While lightspeed buff is nice, let's say that the Tank is taking huge amounts of burst damage and your essential dignity was already used up. Is lightspeed going to save the tank? There were times where the tank was being damaged more than my benefic II and yes, the situation is probably avoidable. But the difference between us and other healers is that they have emergency skills for these situations while we honestly don't have much security. If anything, lightspeed has become a sustain skill for our mp which is nice.

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Let's say tank is taking huge amount of damage and your Benediction / Tetra has been used already. And you dont have Aetherflow stacks for Lustrate.

Want to add some more "ifs"?

All of Eos' CDs, Rouse, Virus. Edit: Dissipation for 3 Aetherflow stacks is also possible, if you expect 3 stacks to help you more than a fairy.
Pressence of Mind, Divine Seal, Asylum, Assize (Virus, but you'd let your SCH do that).

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Let's say tank is taking huge amount of damage and your Benediction / Tetra has been used already. And you dont have Aetherflow stacks for Lustrate.

Want to add some more "ifs"?

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A WHM hits Divine Seal, and/or Presence of Mind and heals through it. A SCH hits Dissipation and Heals through it. An AST hits Lightspeed and... does the same amount of healing he was doing before for less mana. The lightspeed buff is not for Emergency Healing because it doesn't increase our healing output at all. We are still bound by the GCD. Lightspeed buff is at best our Assize, as it saves us some mana for 10seconds.

I think people are either under the impression that Lightspeed is doing something that it actually doesn't, or they don't seem to understand that reducing cast time without also reducing recast time doesn't actually affect how much you can heal.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

>> Loads of AST complaining for the lack of burst healing and emergency CDs
>> Get burst healing and emergency CDs (with reduced mana costs and zero cast time)
>> Complain because those skill can now be used for that

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Let's imagine t13 is a level 60 instance.
Flatten comes up, you use lightspeed together with benefic II. 1st hit comes up and you top the tank right away with benefic II, now its flare breath time, since each hit has like a 1.5-2 second delay you can't mash the button and have to wait till tank gets hit before using benefic, flatten mechanic ends, next is earth shakers, effect of light speed wears off before you can do anything.
Same thing for giga/teraflare, turn light speed on, use helios 1-2 times to save mp, rest of the buff is wasted on animations.

Fights are too telegraphed for skills with "instant" cast to be used 100%, it's a cool emergency button but it brings nothing to astrologian mp management as all you'll be saving is 25% of 3 heal casts at most due either overheal or mechanics.

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Originally Posted by amihavingfunyet

All of Eos' CDs, Rouse, Virus. Edit: Dissipation for 3 Aetherflow stacks is also possible, if you expect 3 stacks to help you more than a fairy.
Pressence of Mind, Divine Seal, Asylum, Assize (Virus, but you'd let your SCH do that).

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Are you serious? How can you believe those things to be better than 10 seconds of instant heals at reduced cost?

Do you really believe retardEos and virus can save tanks getting mauled? And even then, people here suggest dissipate to get more Aetherflow. Oops, no more fairy.

In my opinion, I believe they want to test out the healing side of AST in Savage. Albeit the obvious annoyance with Collective Unconscious still requiring you to channel the spell, it has become more worth it to use in Diurnal. I think we need to broaden our perspective with it and give it a second chance, though I am still a bit iffy about it (teehee :P).

On a side note, I'm really happy with the Ewer & Spire Changes. The refresh is quite nice since we no longer have a resource coupon with a short expiry date, but rather a flow of resources that can help way more! Super excited to go in with AST though. :) The swap between Expanded & Extended Royal Road is going to be fun to get used to again, lol. I think we may have already have gotten used to Spear/Arrow being Expanded and Ewer/Spire being Extended.

Oh well :D More to learn & get used to.

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Originally Posted by Crater

I think people are either under the impression that Lightspeed is doing something that it actually doesn't, or they don't seem to understand that reducing cast time without also reducing recast time doesn't actually affect how much you can heal.

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This is still the problem unfortunately. That's why Lightspeed is not a emergency heal.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

>> Loads of AST complaining for the lack of burst healing and emergency CDs
>> Get burst healing and emergency CDs (with reduced mana costs and zero cast time)
>> Complain because those skills can now be used for that

[...]

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Please dont forget about the globalcooldown which is still pretty much active with the use of Lightspeed.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Are you serious? How can you believe those things to be better than 10 seconds of instant heals at reduced cost?

Do you really believe retardEos and virus can save tanks getting mauled? Gods..

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They're not "instant" heals. There's still 2.5 seconds (or whatever your GCD happens to be; Lightspeed doesn't shorten it) between each heal.

You move the first one forward by about two seconds, because you don't need the initial cast time, but the recast time is the same, and when Lightspeed expires, you have to wait an extra two seconds at the end, because first you cast your last ""instant"" heal, then you have to wait 2.5s for the GCD to cycle, then you have to start casting your next GCD heal, which takes two seconds, for a total of 4.5 seconds between your last Lightspeed cure and your first non-Lightspeed cure.

You basically get to "borrow" a bit of time and get a heal two seconds earlier, but you have to pay it back and wait the extra two seconds once Lightspeed expires, so you don't actually heal for a single HP more than you would have without Lightspeed.

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Originally Posted by Miiu

Please dont forget about the globalcooldown which is still pretty much active with the use of Lightspeed.

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I am fully aware of that. I was responding to whoever stated that "Lightspeed can now be used as emergency cd and nothing else."

Would the ewer buff work on a bard using foes/ballad? Toss an ewer on the bard for extra group refresh or extra foes

Over a relatively short duration, such as the duration of lightspeed, frontloading the heals actually has a noticeable impact in healing per second. The difference would decrease over longer durations, but that's not really relevant here since any discussion of emergencies is short duration in nature. This is a great change and makes Lightspeed a very good multipurpose skill (Emergencies, Mana Management, Mobile Healing).

My only complaint, and I am not even sure complaint is the right word, is that it seems to favor Diurnal more since the only good thing Noct already had going for it was an instant cast 525 potency Heal/Shield - although Noct still gets the benefit from an AOE perspective and Mana benefits.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

*snip*
And the best of all buffs, Ewer refresh rate. That 30 potency is so bad my passive mp regen doesn't beat it by 8 mp, i can't wait for astrologians to tell their tanks and dps "sorry had to sacrifice a bole/balance because i needed mp"

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Yeah, cuz Ewer and passive mp regen don't stack I forgot....

Considering lightspeed, yes it might not be necessary to spam heal within 10seconds, yet it's an improvement, considering the way it worked before.

And yet you need to invest mana AND a cd to apply regen to everyone in order the reach the same result.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Lightspeed is now very potent and the complaint spam threads should stop once people get in savage and see that astrologian is as strong as the other healers.

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The decicion will not be made by "Is the AST able tho heal that fights". I think we all are on par: it can.

The decicion for progression will be made by "which healer combination will provide the most raid DPS".

Sidenote: The more one healer can solo heal, the more the other healer can DPS. Don't forget Selene as a mini healer (not affected by cleric stance) and DPS buff totem.

And forget the word "Emergencyskill". A serious healer use all skills and CDs as regular skills.