Bowharp and the Death of RNG

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

To be fair, I didn't play Conjurer to stand around curing shit, but alas... changes happen. I'd rather like to give barcher a shot - whether existing pre-rng archers will, though... I think that'll be as welcome as Single-target Sacrifice, I agree.

---

That's another thing that bugs me but I quit caring on that one since I have both mages at 50. I'm sure I'll be able to play BLM with one of them. There's only one ranged DD class so it's a bigger issue here. Maybe if Musketeer existed and was going to become a strong DD job I'd care less. One thing is for certain, there's going to be a lot of raging at this implementation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Jobs are designed to modify classes via specialization and are made for party use. Classes are for soloing.

---

MMOs aren't for soloing. I know you're just stating what SE once said but the idea of having to play a job that's 100% different to your class if you wish to party is just absurd. It's like telling a player who loves tanking that his gladiator is going to become a white mage and if he wishes to tank he'll have to solo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xenor

MMOs aren't for soloing. I know you're just stating what SE once said but the idea of having to play a job that's 100% different to your class if you wish to party is just absurd. It's like telling a player who loves tanking that his gladiator is going to become a white mage and if he wishes to tank he'll have to solo.

---

Also considering the fact that they didn't need to add jobs like this, it's even more stupid. People use the "omg the armory system still functions if you solo" excuse to justify bad implementation of jobs instead of asking for jobs to be implemented in a way which demands no excuses.

Love your post. I thought the hat was like Edward von Muir the annoying bard from FFIV

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Bahaha, thy puns are sweet music o'er-arching my ears.



To a point I agree, but Yoshida-san has stated in interviews that the idea of having more than one job-per-class is not something they're planning for at all (YET), and if implemented, would likely be an after-thought. I'm sure they at least have their base list of what classes/jobs will be coming to the game, and we'll probably see that come to fruition before there's links. (Pure speculation).

---

Lies! ... Yoshi has said many time's classes are goin to branch out into more than 1. First set will indeed be only 1 per class though *facepalm*

Edit: Ranger or a straight DD may not be coming as an off-shoot for archer right at 1.21 but sure we will see it further down the road sometime :D ... Bard's honestly better for the first though being as it brings more flavor and variety into the game/parties we desperately need!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Misha

Lies! ... Yoshi has said many time's classes are goin to branch out into more than 1. First set will indeed be only 1 per class though *facepalm*

---

actually i think he said its an interesting idea, but if they did do it, it would be aways off. people who want second jobs take that as him saying it will happen. essentially what he said, is we need to get these jobs down before we consider a second teir. So if they do happen, it would be a ways off


do you have any reference to where promises multiple jobs per class?

As 'neat' as jobs may be or may have been, the armoury system is just too crammed to really make it work. Bard could have been a class all its own as a back up/support and crowd control with close range DD with daggers or something. To make it attached to archer I feel gives the game even less to work with. And it also doesn't sound like a good use of the 'job' to be honest. Not ontop of Archer.

Quite honestly, if you think about what Arcanists were supposed to be with traps and the like, I would have suspected them to be the bards. But if they put too many classic names as jobs there's little to work with to implement new classes. Content is nice, but if it's all going to be good ol' raid after raid with nothing left to rank up, interest will dwindle. Especially if they're just skills to quest for. ): Doesn't sound fun at all.

lol, I do love all this.
I'm just waiting to see and (slowly) levelling other classes, so if I don't like what they do to Archer or Archer is not viable on its own as a group class I have options.
But given how dull I find the AA combat in melee, well... dunno..

But if Archer is still good DPS and the HarpBow just adds a layer of Buff/DeBuff/CC to the class over extra damage as I can see others getting.
I don't see that as a bad thing, As it dose look like a funky ass weapon.

Archers ARE indispensable in FFXIV already. Bards were indispensable in FFXI.

Combining the two is like assembling the five parts of Voltron together. Archers should be ecstatic not depressed. Bards are going to rule this game.

more jobs are coming later for current classes. just as new classes and jobs for those classes will be coming. The best part is, THEYRE OPTIONAL.

AFter the job system comes in people need to remember it is an option they can choose to play an enhanced role. A Conjurer can still play a Conjurer. An Archer can still play an Archer. There is no need for them to specialize into a specific role using the job system if they want such a "jack of all trades" approach or merely one different from their job.

We need specialized roles in order to have better group based content, but you don't have to take up a role you don't want to (likely someone does though hopefully).

A conjurer may not do as good of magic damage as a black mage because they lack some of the black mage's abilities, but if they want to nuke for some reason they can still do that and won't be completely inept at it. An archer will still likely be a great DD after the job system, but they may lack some special DD related abilities that makes Monk and Dragoon special (we hope). People might want them to play Bard because well Bards are awesome, but they don't have to.

For all we know an ideal group for different encounters/situations might be:

PLD, WAR, WHM, BLM, BLM, BRD, DRG, MNK

or

PLD, WAR, WHM, BLM, CONJURER (because of their versatility), BRD, DRG, MNK

or

PLD, WHM, BLM, BLM, BLM, BRD, ARC, ARC (god I hope not, but I'd be lying if I said it is out of the realm of possibilities)

Point is jobs are specialized roles, BRDs are needed for debuff/buffing and WHM's are needed as the best healer. It doesn't mean Conjurer's and Archers necessarily have no use in a party either though, because you don't always need or want everyone specializing so strictly in every situation.

However the archers deluding themselves that they will be able to get the BRD's debuffs/buffs while at the same time still doing the same damage they do as archers need to probably lower their expectations.

Anyways screw you whiny archers, you lost all credibility after you moaned at the changes in 1.18. Worst class community on the forums by far... yet also strangely containing the best min/max community on the forum. Okay not that strange, happens with every "flavor of the month year class". You take the good with the absolutely horrible.

So basically it's a convoluted mess and you are defending it because... ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by User201109011315

So basically it's a convoluted mess and you are defending it because... ?

---

,,,,it's not.

Am I missing some official word that the bow is actually a bow-harp, and not just a bow?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Travesty

Am I missing some official word that the bow is actually a bow-harp, and not just a bow?

---

The official word you're looking for is Myopia.

I still don't think its a bard. Why doesn't the bard in the game have one of those? Just saying........ The strings are all the same length, they are spread far apart from one side to the other. I just think that bard is going to be implemented when the right class is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by User201109011315

The official word you're looking for is Myopia.

---

I guess we can also assume that PLD will have a Shield-Pauldron eh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

I still don't think its a bard. Why doesn't the bard in the game have one of those? Just saying........ The strings are all the same length, they are spread far apart from one side to the other. I just think that bard is going to be implemented when the right class is.

---

Those are pretty spurious claims to support your position.

The bard in the game is a poet. It's not an official, scientific class title. When he is referred to as bard, they are saying "oh that guy writes songs and limerics and whatnot"

Strings being same length doesnt mean they can't play different notes/frequencies. It's called physics, look it up. And even if it wasn't called physics, it's called fantasy.

If they were going to wait to implement bard as a job until they got the right class for it, then they'll be waiting forever. Because bard should be a class, not a job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Travesty

I guess we can also assume that PLD will have a Shield-Pauldron eh?

---

He's clearly holding that shield with his other arm. It's not like it's fused with his shoulder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

I still don't think its a bard. Why doesn't the bard in the game have one of those? Just saying........ The strings are all the same length, they are spread far apart from one side to the other. I just think that bard is going to be implemented when the right class is.

---

You could be right - probably are, in fact. Nothing in the game DATs supports the idea that BRD and ARC are meshing.

Honestly, I just like conversation and possibilities, so when the idea of a "Bowharp" came up, I figured it'd be just as fun the "Gun[x]" discussions, lol. As I said to Mog - what's wrong with bullsh!tting for fun until we have answers?

Take a look at the shape of the wood frame, though - it's decidedly harp-like. Give me a moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by User201109011315

He's clearly holding that shield with his other arm. It's not like it's fused with his shoulder.

---

Except that's exactly how it looks in the picture lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

You could be right - probably are, in fact. Nothing in the game DATs supports the idea that BRD and ARC are meshing....

Take a look at the shape of the wood frame, though - it's decidedly harp-like. Give me a moment.

---

Here we are; that type of harp is called a lyre. The shape is spot on, imo.

How about we just wait and see?

On a somewhat related note, if the class that's supposed to be represented there is BRD, why the hell is it shooting an arrow instead of playing the "harp?"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scherwiz

How about we just wait and see?

---

We can do that, but I've yet to see that policy adopted towards anything in this game... dungeons, jobs, chocobos, airships, job adjustments, map rebuilding... we tend to speculate and talk about our hopes for and analysis of everything. The bowharp was an invigorating sight - not just for these forms either. People are speculating and asking questions everywhere - and why not? It's better than rambling on about immersion, auction houses, and those godsdamned casuals for another few months.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Travesty

On a somewhat related note, if the class that's supposed to be represented there is BRD, why the hell is it shooting an arrow instead of playing the "harp?"

---

I suppose he's attacking... and not buffing... at the moment...
Probably because, if it's actually a barcher, buffing doesn't look all that impressive on a magazine cover.
Just saying...

Either way, the magazine or a dev will clear it up shortly. Some FF authority sites are even using their connections to SE to reach out for what information they'll give on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I suppose he's attacking... and not buffing... at the moment...
Probably because, if it's actually a barcher, buffing doesn't look all that impressive on a magazine cover.
Just saying...

---

Well, they managed with the WHM. Just seems to me that if the job is Bard, and there's a harp in the picture, they'd probably show him playing it since that's sure to be the focus of the job.

Anonymoose FTW!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Travesty

Well, they managed with the WHM. Just seems to me that if the job is Bard, and there's a harp in the picture, they'd probably show him playing it since that's sure to be the focus of the job.

---

Could go either way, but the latter isn't new, fun to think about, or fun to discuss. And, IMO, they didn't reaaally manage with WHM, it, don't hit me now, looks pretty anticlimactic for a first look at the job. It's a CON base, so it could be attacking but if a WHM isn't healing, what's it good for?

Maybe that's how a barcher ... barches. I doubt the buffs would be the focus of the job, I assume arching would still be pretty big... since... if that's a bowharp it's still like 65% bow.

Again, just nice to have something new to talk about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sirscapesalot

Anonymoose FTW!

---

Scapes!? Did you jump servers?? lol

OK GUYS, I got it (don't know if anyone said this yet or not didn't read every post) But maybe it plays music when you shoot the arrow >:D

Like I said in the other thread. Its obviously a bow made from a harp and a dagger. Yall are too focused on the harp to see the other half of it. music for buffs, dagger for close range combat, and a bow for long range combat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AceofRains

Like I said in the other thread. Its obviously a bow made from a harp and a dagger. Yall are too focused on the harp to see the other half of it. music for buffs, dagger for close range combat, and a bow for long range combat.

---

So basically a spork.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by User201109011315

So basically a spork.

---

yeah i guess you could say that. In that sense it would keep people from complaining about anything. People want their bards to have a dagger, while some want to see the bow wielding bard. You get you have your cake with a spoon and eat it with a fork. ;D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xenor

the idea of having to play a job that's 100% different to your class if you wish to party is just absurd. It's like telling a player who loves tanking that his gladiator is going to become a white mage and if he wishes to tank he'll have to solo.

---

Wow. Just wow. So bard is going to play 100% different? So you don't think that you will still be firing arrows in-between casting a song buff or two? You don't think that any song buffs will have a buff duration? maybe of even at least 5 minutes? You don't think that maybe songs could be casted with TP instead of MP or nothing because that's the way it has to be done?

If you think as an Archer rolling with a Bard role on is still not going to do any damage then I think you're sorely mistaken. Even if you look at FFXI as a reference, Bard specific tasks only took a second or two and then you were back to curing with whitemage spells. I'm sure that Bard will not be 100% different as you say.

And the comparison to tanking a Gladiator and making him be a full on white mage is absurd. If anything it would be more like taking a player who loves tanking with his gladiator and telling him he's going to have to take on more healing responsibility and heal himself some more....oh dayum! did I just describe a paladin? wow, you're right. That idea would be crazy.

Just wanted to say the I LOVED the bard in ffxi and I hope to god they do not combine it with a completely different class.

If they do, I will have to seriously consider not playing. Redmage and Bard are two classes I am hoping they add into the game, and two classes I would simply expect to show up. Both are classics, and both have distinct, unique, and interesting characteristics that I love by themselves. Why in gods name would you ever combine archer/bard ? please tell me this is just some mistake, or a sad joke!

Why does everyone need official clarifications from the dev team like they are unable to think for themselves and interpret information available. You'll be waiting forever if you wait for devs to clarify stuff.

Personally, I like the turn they've taken with it. To me it sounds like Bard will be decent damage @ max range + support skills. You've still got the bow part so you can still do damage, just not crazy stupid obnoxious damage. Honestly ranged classes shouldn't ever be doing the most damage, it makes close-range damage dealers a bit obsolete.

Honestly, the bow/harp kind of makes me want to go level Archer just so I can use it on Bard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goonMagi

Just wanted to say the I LOVED the bard in ffxi and I hope to god they do not combine it with a completely different class.

If they do, I will have to seriously consider not playing. Redmage and Bard are two classes I am hoping they add into the game, and two classes I would simply expect to show up. Both are classics, and both have distinct, unique, and interesting characteristics that I love by themselves. Why in gods name would you ever combine archer/bard ? please tell me this is just some mistake, or a sad joke!

---

It all started when Yoshi took over and didn't realise that class=weapon/abilities and job=role.

So now both are combined into a mangled and bastardised hybrid class/job which we like to call archer/bard.

How about coming up with new shit instead of rehashing the same tired and boring classes/jobs used over and over?

Final Fantasy doesn't mean you have to have White Mages and Black Mages in it. It's 2011.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seikninkuru

How about coming up with new shit instead of rehashing the same tired and boring classes/jobs used over and over?

Final Fantasy doesn't mean you have to have White Mages and Black Mages in it. It's 2011.

---

Just cause it's 2011 doesn't mean it shouldn't have White Mages and Black Mages either, lol. I think most people don't find those boring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by User201109011315

It all started when Yoshi took over and didn't realise that class=weapon/abilities and job=role.

So now both are combined into a mangled and bastardised hybrid class/job which we like to call archer/bard.

---

Im pretty sure archer was just a fancy way for us English speakers to say bow-user. What we have here is a bow-using bard. A future class might take the form of what we know as archer or ranger, whereas they use aiming skills to cripple foes at a long range. I fail to see how anything is mangled, and i fail to see how any of this is difficult to grasp. there are plenty of games that you have a bow-bard, chill out because there are more jobs to come. Bard wont be the only bow user.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Travesty

Just cause it's 2011 doesn't mean it shouldn't have White Mages and Black Mages either, lol. I think most people don't find those boring.

---

However the infatuation with regurgitating things like White Mage, Black Mage, Thief, Bard, Paladin, Ranger, (Dragoon?)... is what is contributing to the hodgepodge that seemingly is being thrown at us(I am wary at a significant lack of communication about what they're planning with the patch around the corner, when in the past they seem excited to share details).

Edit: And why does it have to be a white mage; isn't a white mage the same as <insert main healer in any other rpg>? Yes. So rather than expanding upon a role fulfilled in a party(healer, tank, rdps, mdps, CC[if applicable]), they are jamming the square pegs(jobs) into the round holes(classes).

I guess if you never look more than two feet in front of you, nothing going on seems amiss.