Relic Items Easily Obtained?

No disrespect guys, but I'm pretty sure my idea wins.

Quit livin' in the past.

Relics should take time invested, but not be just an uber rare drop based on random luck.

Some key points:
- Make progress quantifiable (something you can actually measure and say "I'm xxx close to getting my relic")
- Involve multiple platforms of the FFXIV community (crafting, gathering, epic fights, puzzles, strategy, content, etc)
- Should not take more than a year for the average player to obtain (someone of relative skill, some social networking, reasonable amounts of gil, and plays an average of say... 10-20 hrs per week)

Oh Cairdeas is back. Thank god.

I mean, I'm often one to champion a hopeless cause and all, but where the Armory System is concerned, I seriously can't be bothered anymore. Hopefully you can pick up the mantle and help save the armory system for me.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

Oh Cairdeas is back. Thank god.

I mean, I'm often one to champion a hopeless cause and all, but where the Armory System is concerned, I seriously can't be bothered anymore. Hopefully you can pick up the mantle and help save the armory system for me.

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Some people call me a hero, some people think I'm a villian.

Now I know how Napoleon felt....

Anyway. Don't worship me, I've not done anything special except speak my mind.

The Armoury System as it was described to us before release was an epic masterpiece that could have been enjoyed by everyone, but then on release it turned out to be a bit of a finger painting of some boobs by an immature little boy.

Sadly instead of fixing it they seem to be more interested in starting over. *shrugs* nothing we can do now. Eventually they'll probably stop calling it the Armoury System.


And, I'm not really back. To be honest, I'm only here because I was bored at work. I've been breaking my social hermitude and have been out socializing with people. I've actually met a lot of cool people in real life that I've been enjoying spending my time with. I even started dating a member of a Poly House and am slowly being adopted in. Life is great and I haven't had time to play games. In the last month I've played Deus Ex: HR for about 15 hours (all at once really and not since) and about an hour of Grandia this weekend just to show off to some people on a webcam how it was.

My gaming life is pretty much dead and I've grown out of it. *shrugs* people do grow up, I didn't expect to not do it till 25, but it might be the hormones I'm taking helping. :3

Realistically, Relics at this point would be obtainable (I imagine) something like this:


Kill 1-3 bosses, get basic relic weapon parts.

Gather 20,000 items from botanist, miner and fishing.

Craft all 20,000 items into a non tradeable key items. (rank 45 synth, all classes)

Talk to NPC, trade base relic item and 20,000 key items to NPC for stage 2 relic.

Kill 50,000 monsters with the stage 2 relic.

Talk to NPC for stage 3 relic.

Trade 500million gil to the NPC with the stage 3 relic to the NPC for the stage 4 and final relic weapon.

I might have gone overboard, but who knows.

Given how most of the FFXIV player base hates things being "hard" to obtain, I guarantee these will be buyable with either our overflowing gil surplus or through at maximum of 10k class/job marks -- Something painfree and very easy to accomplish that they'll have to rename them from "Relic/Ancient/Epic/etc" weapon to (insert new name).

It won't be anything worthwhile given the casual push for this game people want. If they must make it easy to obtain, hopefully it's Empyrean Weapon style progression, which can be varying difficulties.

For those that don't know, in XI the Empyrean weapons are generally:

1. Kill x amount of NMs so many times, e.g kill a Tiger NM 4 times, which you have to generally kill about 5 NMs x times each.
2. Kill a different set of NMs (VNMs in XI) which you pop with a certain item usually 4-6 times each.
3. Collect a certain amount of an item (usually 50, 50 then 75 for the final upgrade phase)
4. Profit.

That's as easy as I hope it gets if it's supposed to be "ultimate" weapons. However then you have crafters that say they're forgotten which then reminds me that they'll be crafted through easy to obtain items and thus no longer seen as ultimate weapons as you need only 1 legendary smither to forge the ultimate weapon (like Hades), not a full player base of them.

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Originally Posted by odette

forget ffxi in the past, ffxi was crappy hardcore game, but the time changes please no more post "we want ffxi-2"

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Yet that "crappy game" has a significantly larger player base than this "Most awesome game ever". >.>

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Did you have a Relic weapon? Because I did and it didn't feel like an accomplishment, it felt like a massive waste of time/gil.

The weapon was good but the Dynamis currency system was the stupidest grind I've ever experienced in endgame. Weapons like that should require multiple drops, multiple part quests, many tough fights anything but a faction or currency grind!

Obtaining a black belt was so much more satisfying because it involved getting drops from all the kings. Getting a Relic weapon just meant you were filthy rich/ran Dynamis for much longer than anyone in their right mind should have.

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got to agree with him here, having it require you to beat the game in many forms is cool, but requiring what essentially amounts to an insane amount of money, or the ability to trick 18 other people out of their efforts on a three time a week basis was a stupid mechanic. I understand they want it to take time and effort, but making the best items into a straight money grind, or pyramid scheme, is a bad mechanic.

I think in mmos in general too many people are concerned more with how many other people have an item, than the actual gaming involved to get it. I really dont care what its actual rarity is, make the difficulty to get it involve skill, and maybe even dedication, fact is if you were rich enough you could buy the whole relic weapon just by paying people off to do your dirty work. bad mechanic for an epic weapon.

No doubt it should be hard to get, but I hope they can be a little more original than to just copy the format from FFXI. If I'm going to get an ultimate weapon, I should expect to have to go on the ultimate quest to find it!

Make it start off something like mog tablets where you have to search the entire world to find the basic weapon in some random location. It can be absolutely anywhere, including in some obscure part of a dungeon that people usually don't go to because its out of the way or something like that. Make it so only one can appear every month or so, and the type of weapon is different each time.

Once you've actually found the weapon, you have to figure out how to unlock its power. You have no clues about how to do this. You just get the weapon and have to figure it out. Perhaps you need to bring it to a certain location in the world at a certain time or have it exposed to certain whether effects or have to kill certain NMs with it, or all of these!!

Once the weapons power has been released you then have to learn how to equip it!! The ultimate weapon chooses its master, not the other way around!! Perhaps you were not destined to have the ultimate weapon because it is not favored by your guardian diety and no matter what you do you can't equip it because you chose the wrong guardian ! So you can only use the ultimate weapon for your guardian and if you want to use it you have to be the class that it goes with.

So now you have to figure out which weapon goes with your guardian and start all over !!! Hahahaaaaaa

Once you finally figure that out and get back to this point, you can finally equip the weapon but its not over yet! You must prove to your diety that you are a worthy hero capable of wielding this weapon and the only way to do this is appease the gods by defeating their enemies ! You must fight and defeat 1000 enemies at the same time (of course you can use the relic weapon at this point). If you die then the gods will banish you from using the weapon and return it to its resting place where you must now start all over again by finding it in the world !!

If you pass this test then you will finally be able to keep the weapon !!

Or something like that .... /daydream off

Cairdeas, you said you played Grandia in a post.

This officially labels you as one of the cool people (b'.')b

Also always nice to hear people are having a good life. :)

Personally they need to implement 2 more items types in mind. The next being epic/legendary/etc and then relics after that. I think it should be:

Common (white)
Uncommon (green)
Rare (blue)
Epic (insert color here)
Relics (red/orange)

Before relics we need another item type in my mind.

EDIT: Oh and sets w/ bonuses which could be the epics which could be tied to jobs I guess.

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Originally Posted by Royal

Personally they need to implement 2 more items types in mind. The next being epic/legendary/etc and then relics after that. I think it should be:

Common (white)
Uncommon (green)
Rare (blue)
Epic (purple/pink)
Relics (red/orange)

Before relics we need another item type in my mind.

EDIT: Oh and sets w/ bonuses which could be the epics which could be tied to jobs I guess.

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Found your answer (b'.')b

Oh and another thing that bugs me when it comes to the super rare, uber items, they are always weapons. WOW and it sounds like FF11 only had weapons. You mean to tell me there was never any uber armors out there. Make a relic set that takes forever to get. I'm a casual it may take me 15 years to get but who cares, it keeps me logging on.

Take wow for example, nowadays they raid for what 1-3 months on a new dungeon and you get most of the new epics and then you WAIT. There would always be an overarching item set to work on that could be worked on for multiple expansions. Wishful thinking i'm sure.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

I don't want it to be rare drop, praying for god of luck is the worst idea ever.

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^this. It's not a sign of hard work or dedication if it's a rare drop. That's a sign of being in the right place at the right time. What if I go up, kill the boss once and it drops? I just happened to be the one to kill it when it dropped.

I think it should be a long, difficult, grueling quest chain. It should be your ultimate goal but it should not be relegated to 1% of the community. Everyone should have the option to get one, provided they want to take all the time, effort and resources involved to complete this. In my opinion requiring crafting or gathering some kind of unique/untradable item in order to make the final item would make it even rarer. Requiring all 3 core aspects of the game to make the finished product would be a true test of determination and skill.

In my opinion, that would still give you a sense of accomplishment even if others have it. You know that you, and anyone else who has one, went through a ton of shit to get it.

I wouldn't say they should be as extremely difficult as relics from XI to obtain, but maybe half that difficulty. I also hope the process of obtaining them is a vastly different system than the relics/mythics/emperyians in XI.

While I loved XI, I'm not looking to play the same content over again in glorified HD. I've already wasted 6 years of the one precious life I get doing that once, I'd rather waste the next 6 doing something slightly different.

Have to say i liked the idea of relic weapons. but favor the Empyrean system in practice.

there both long and difficult roads to travel, the empyrean is just broken up into smaller more digestible nuggets. Granted the later stages of them are pretty big bites.


Oh and just to throw a bit of a monkey wrench into some peoples thought processes. just mull this over. Relic class doh/dol tools.

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Originally Posted by Griss

Have to say i liked the idea of relic weapons. but favor the Empyrean system in practice.

there both long and difficult roads to travel, the empyrean is just broken up into smaller more digestible nuggets. Granted the later stages of them are pretty big bites.


Oh and just to throw a bit of a monkey wrench into some peoples thought processes. just mull this over. Relic class doh/dol tools.

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They had "relic" fishing rods in XI. So there is a precedent.

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Originally Posted by Gidonoidon_Sur

They had "relic" fishing rods in XI. So there is a precedent.

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2 of them. There's even "relic" crafting toolsets used by legendary crafters in the lore, so yeah no wrench thrown yet.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

Cairdeas, you said you played Grandia in a post.

This officially labels you as one of the cool people (b'.')b

Also always nice to hear people are having a good life. :)

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Grandia was literally the first RPG I beat from start to finish on my own. FF7 being next.
For those few people who had a game like Grandia as their first experiance into RPG's it made them keep their eyes open for awesomeness.

hard-mode please

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Originally Posted by Royal

Take wow for example, nowadays they raid for what 1-3 days on a new dungeon and you get all of the new epics and then you WAIT. There would always be an overarching item set to work on that could be worked on for multiple expansions. Wishful thinking i'm sure.

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Fixed that for you (b'.')b

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Grandia was literally the first RPG I beat from start to finish on my own. FF7 being next.
For those few people who had a game like Grandia as their first experiance into RPG's it made them keep their eyes open for awesomeness.

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No kidding, it made me keep my eyes open for 48 hours, literally, I couldn't get to sleep 'cos I couldn't turn it off XD

This thread needs more Grandia

Btw, I bought a deed poll to change my middle name to Grandia.

Yeah, I liked it THAT much.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

Fixed that for you (b'.')b

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I was trying to be generous :).

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Originally Posted by Royal

I was trying to be generous :).

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I was being honest ;)

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

No kidding, it made me keep my eyes open for 48 hours, literally, I couldn't get to sleep 'cos I couldn't turn it off XD

This thread needs more Grandia

Btw, I bought a deed poll to change my middle name to Grandia.

Yeah, I liked it THAT much.

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Correct Music choice. I didn't like G2 as much as 1, but I liked the music.

I would like another relic base like XI's Nyzul Isle mythic weapons. Still very powerful yet actually obtainable with some hard work

I think relics should be pretty rare and not everyone has them.

I know Kraken Club isnt a relic but it is rare and when I was lent one for my maat cap donkies ago, it was like having sex with a celeb, i made about 9000 screenshots, 50gb of frapping.

Was ace.

As long as it's not currency based.

You can still make it hard and difficult to obtain, taking multiple raids, many tough bosses, Progression-Based areas, and all around knowledge and travel of the game so that even with a walkthrough it still takes months to obtain.

A good example were the Epics in Everquest I.
They were rare, only raiders really had them, and it took many quests across multiple expansions to obtain.
Currency stuff is just a grind fest, it doesn't make you a better player because you did Dynamis 40 times and convinced your LS to give you all the currency each time.

WoW has it's own ultimate weapons for each expansion, and then better ones come out next expansion. I think that's the best way to do this, rather than have one overarching ultimate weapon for all time. That's just stupid because then you never have anything to look forward to.
In WoW you had to spend weeks at least, questing and doing raids to obtain all the required drops, and then combine them. You'd even get a serverwide message when you obtained it (Use this idea SE). It worked, and about a year later the weapon was meaningless with a new level cap, but there was a new type of quest.


Basically, like FFXIs Empyrean Weapons now, but with more depth to them - right now they require many small soloable NMs, and a few group ones, with 3 raid bosses at the end, which unfortunately can be completed with 3 adventurers. Had those monsters required 15 players instead of 4, it would have been the right balance. It's a healthy balance, and I don't think the weapons should be upgradable so you have to start over each level cap increase. That way players won't remain "the best" forever if they stop playing - it encourages you to stay on your toes every update, as opposed to FFXI where once you obtained your relic you were done until Abyssea came out.

I think it would be ok if relic weapons became obsolete quickly, but only if you need the old weapon to get the new weapon. Basically every expansion, your weapon evolves into a newer better one, but you can only get the newer weapon if you already had the older one. So if you never had a relic in the first place, you'd first have to get the old one in order to get the newest one. That way people who spent tons of time getting a relic won't feel pissed that now there is something better than that weapon they spent so long to get.

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Originally Posted by Baelari

I liked the rarity of relics in 11, even if I never got one for myself. Having a few in your shell was something the whole shell could be proud of.

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I liked the idea but at the sametime I didn't, I hope it is cursed item of sorts when you obtain it in a group and then you have to do something to upgrade the item in a multi tiered fashion. First phase or two could be done solo, then another part done via crafting and the last phase would include some form of group content where it changes into a nice shiny item.

I didn't care for the fact it was solely obtained through dynamis and took as long as it did to obtain it. It did make the item that much more awesome to see someone have one but I literally never seen anyone with one lol. Much less ever come close to getting one myself.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Correct Music choice. I didn't like G2 as much as 1, but I liked the music.

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Was that from the PS2 version of Grandia 2? I have the Dreamcast version and don't remember it sounding quite like this.

But yeah, apart from Milenia and the music, Grandia 2 wasn't as epic as Grandia 1.

turning old ones into a materia that is top types to add to the newer ones that replace it i think could fix this. that way not killing the content as much and making getting them worth it even for other classes for at least the materia.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

Was that from the PS2 version of Grandia 2? I have the Dreamcast version and don't remember it sounding quite like this.

But yeah, apart from Milenia and the music, Grandia 2 wasn't as epic as Grandia 1.

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Yeah I believe this is the PS2 version., DC version I liked a bit better.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Yeah I believe this is the PS2 version., DC version I liked a bit better.

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I thought everything was better on the Dreamcast.

But thast's because I'm a die-hard Sega fan XD

Ah just checked, Dreamcast battle music was the same as the PS2 version, but with slightly better quality 'cos sega are good like that (b'.')b

And just for the sake of sheer eye-watering nostalgia:
Justin - Alright, we won! *raises sword in the air with a big cheesy grin*

Make it to rank 50 in under 11 hours for your excalibur II. yes.

I'm all for the long grueling process, but I don't think we need to take ti to FFXI levels. I mean, XI literally required you to have 30+ people working multiple times a week for over a year for ONE person to get it. Thats too far. I think a similar process to XI would be a good idea we just need to ditch the currency part or at least cut back on the amount needed. I think requiring rare drop items from multiple very difficult tasks should be sufficient. I would even settle for a required wait time or kill count requirement. Just not 14,000,000 Byne Bills 9,000,000 T. Shells and 4,000,000 whatever the hell dan d'oria had..

If you play this game daily for ten years, you should have your relic. That was not the case in XI

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Originally Posted by Royal

Oh and another thing that bugs me when it comes to the super rare, uber items, they are always weapons. WOW and it sounds like FF11 only had weapons. You mean to tell me there was never any uber armors out there. Make a relic set that takes forever to get. I'm a casual it may take me 15 years to get but who cares, it keeps me logging on.

Take wow for example, nowadays they raid for what 1-3 months on a new dungeon and you get most of the new epics and then you WAIT. There would always be an overarching item set to work on that could be worked on for multiple expansions. Wishful thinking i'm sure.

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XI has 3 sets of relic armour for each class in the game..

FFXIs just went overboard with the time. It wasn't the difficulty just the time involved.

I think the Empyrean and Trial weapons are a great balance, except that it would be nice if the final stages couldn't be single-group killed. I'm hoping the 95-99 versions require 18 players for the bosses and challenges, then those are the perfect weapons.

Something that a solo player can reach to a certain point, and then his progression stops until he groups. Then his progression continues until he reaches the "group version" of the relic, which is close but not as good as the final. Lacking in power and not as cool of a graphic, but leaving you in the playing field. Then, you progress to the raid version which takes many raids, I'd say killing every NM of that expansion tier, and lotting an item off each one, along with some quests, and crafted pieces to make the final version. And repeat the process each expansion.
If you can kill the NM once, and obtain loot from it, it's NOTHING BUT A TIME SINK TO MAKE YOU DO IT A HUNDRED MORE TIMES.

Everquest I and II also had a good balance with regard to future relics (epics):
If you had the previous epic, when the new one came out, you could skip a few stages on the progression (the quests the would be soloable now at the new level cap).
Example- If you had the Paladin weapon it went through this progression:
Soulfire (Group) -> Fiery Avenger (Raid) -> Fiery Defender (Epic #1 final level 60) - > Nightbane (Epic #2, level 70) - > Nightbane Upgrades (extra stats with expansions)
If you never did the epic, and it was level 75 expansion time, there was now a speedy quest that allowed you to skip the first 3 epics, by doing a long alternative quest to get a placeholder item to progress to Nightbane, thus keeping you in the loop but you got to miss the epic flaming sword.


That kind of progression works, because you have your signature staple items, players who are badass and raiders will have it at the appropriate time, and eventually unlock their whole LSs relics, but when new content comes out it's not a total barrier to entry for new members to get caught up by having to repeat 4 years of previous content to stay in the game. It allows everyone to enjoy the game, at their own pace. This is not E-Peen Fantasy, it's a final fantasy game. The hardcore players remain on the top, and have the coolest looking armor and weapons, and most powerful, at all times, as long as they keep at it. It doesn't make the game casual with that approach either.

Remember: FFXIV is going to raise its level cap every 2 years, the above post is made with that in mind. If the relic takes a year to complete ..... that's stupid with that pace.

things like that should be hard to get not droped after a leve, otherwise no point of calling it a relic.

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Originally Posted by Kam

Make it to rank 50 in under 11 hours for your excalibur II. yes.

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I actually did this with the lv1 challenge, and stopped playing the file shortly after lol :(

I would like to see systems like the FFXI Mythics and Empyreans. Beat a substantial portion of content (like the entire ToAU expansion) and have a Holy Grail at the end. One nice thing about the Empyrean model is the fact that your weapon is upgraded in stages, so you have something to show for your progress.

I also dislike a heavy reliance on currency. It may well be the only way to control how many relics get into the game, but it takes away from their appeal if they essentially have to be bought.