RIP summoner

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Originally Posted by Balipu

Guys, I've been hearing for months now that egis are useless. Now it is revealed that egis will get more abilities to be useful, we might get back carbuncle and we will be able to merge with bahamut and maybe other summons to deal all sorts of horrible damage. The reaction is: Why don't we get more egis? Well I thought you hate em.

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Because most summoners complaining about this stuff aren't concerned with gameplay or job balance. They play summoner for purely cosmetic reasons.

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Originally Posted by Balipu

Guys, I've been hearing for months now that egis are useless. Now it is revealed that egis will get more abilities to be useful, we might get back carbuncle and we will be able to merge with bahamut and maybe other summons to deal all sorts of horrible damage. The reaction is: Why don't we get more egis? Well I thought you hate em.

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It was hard to make out what the Translator was saying. Honestly, she seemed tired so I can't blame her if she made a few mistakes here and there.
She really had gotten 'bad' at the end to where she quickly ran over WHM/SCH spells and fumbled alot on SMN.
I felt like she kinda cut some things in half to just hurry and run over the details.

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Because most summoners complaining about this stuff aren't concerned with gameplay or job balance. They play summoner for purely cosmetic reasons.

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I'm very much concerned with balances and are glad for some buffs. Just want more things to play with. Not that hard of a concept lol.
At least we get Ahk Morn. ._. But if the Carby thing is true, I'ma happy camper lol.

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Q: "What is a summoner?"

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A:

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Originally Posted by Selli

http://i.imgur.com/snkHrdL.gif

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Glad I could fix that for you. :D

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Originally Posted by Balipu

Guys, I've been hearing for months now that egis are useless. Now it is revealed that egis will get more abilities to be useful, we might get back carbuncle and we will be able to merge with bahamut and maybe other summons to deal all sorts of horrible damage. The reaction is: Why don't we get more egis? Well I thought you hate em.

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This. So much this. If you want more of something, don't spend damn near 2 years bitching about it.

FROM THE DIGEST SUMMARY
"However, I’m sure many are wondering if they will have to continue looking at the same egi forever, but we are planning to add a system in the future that will allow you to change the appearance of your egis, including Carbuncle, but their stats will remain the same."

Egi glamour so most likely new egi appearances plus carbuncles! :D

I'm glad they are fleshing out egis. It seems like most people here care more about the "looks" of the summoner and the lore then actual gameplay. I want the class to be complex and have a high skill ceiling, I don't give two hoots about what pets are summoned. If there is a best pet, I'll just use the best pet. If we have to swap pets to do more dmg, I'll do that. I don't care if they call them iffy or titan or if they look like a cloud. As long as the gameplay is good then I'm happy with the job.

I didn't get to see the stream due to work... Is it true about the Egis and using primal ability?

I guess SMN is a blue mage now, sweet

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

I'm glad they are fleshing out egis. It seems like most people here care more about the "looks" of the summoner and the lore then actual gameplay. I want the class to be complex and have a high skill ceiling, I don't give two hoots about what pets are summoned. If there is a best pet, I'll just use the best pet. If we have to swap pets to do more dmg, I'll do that. I don't care if they call them iffy or titan or if they look like a cloud. As long as the gameplay is good then I'm happy with the job.

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I agree with this.

I want Egi glamour for the expansion... not later... may we can change Garuda for Ramuh / Ifrit for Levi and Titan for Odin or something.... i dont care if u just change the "visual effects" but skills remain the same...

From LL summary thread

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During development, we thought long and hard about this, but we will not be adding new egi at this time. Looking at the long-term, instead of adding more pets, we felt it better to give more use to the job by adding actions to summoner. However, I’m sure many are wondering if they will have to continue looking at the same egi forever, but we are planning to add a system in the future that will allow you to change the appearance of your egis, including Carbuncle, but their stats will remain the same.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

I'm glad they are fleshing out egis. It seems like most people here care more about the "looks" of the summoner and the lore then actual gameplay. I want the class to be complex and have a high skill ceiling, I don't give two hoots about what pets are summoned. If there is a best pet, I'll just use the best pet. If we have to swap pets to do more dmg, I'll do that. I don't care if they call them iffy or titan or if they look like a cloud. As long as the gameplay is good then I'm happy with the job.

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And here, ladies and gentlemen, we see the demonstrated difference between people who treat this game as a game and those who treat it as a pretty chatroom. People who play the game for the actual game want it to be fun and interesting to actually play. People who play the game for the aesthetics are primarily concerned with how different and unique they look in comparison to other players/characters, how many glamours they get, how many pets of varying types they get, how visible their pets are to others...

Person who cares about gameplay: "Wow, that Dreadwyrm trance stuff looks really great. Maybe this rework will finally make SMN as in-demand as other jobs in endgame."

Person who cares about aesthetics: "No new egis? Still not as big or bigger than player characters? How are people supposed to pay attention to me from across the map? RIP my job"

That's not to say aesthetic elements aren't important, but it's one tiny facet of the whole picture- clearly taking a backseat to gameplay. Because when your gameplay sucks, your game fails. SEE: FFXIV 1.0

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

I'm glad they are fleshing out egis. It seems like most people here care more about the "looks" of the summoner and the lore then actual gameplay. I want the class to be complex and have a high skill ceiling, I don't give two hoots about what pets are summoned. If there is a best pet, I'll just use the best pet. If we have to swap pets to do more dmg, I'll do that. I don't care if they call them iffy or titan or if they look like a cloud. As long as the gameplay is good then I'm happy with the job.

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Cool thats YOUR opinion and your entitled to it, Iam more upset that they stated they were re-working the class which sounds like a overhaul of its mechanics but instead they changed the name of a spell and give you 30 seconds to play with some direct damage abilities and no new egis.

I thought summoners were supposed to be a pet class that uses pets to do damage and interacts with them to do so.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

Boycott the game. SE clearly just rushed summoner again. Betcha the only reason summoner was put in was to shut the fanboys up with something.

Boycott the game so summoner gets what it needs.

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If all the summoners boycott the game the only effect will be the rest of us finally having some peace and quiet. Also, maybe faster dungeon runs ;)

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Originally Posted by Valoiz

I want Egi glamour for the expansion... not later... may we can change Garuda for Ramuh / Ifrit for Levi and Titan for Odin or something.... i dont care if u just change the "visual effects" but skills remain the same...

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How about.

Ifrit - Levi. [Short Range.]
Garuda - Ramuh. [Long Range.]
Titan - Odin. [Tank.]
Then you pick which appearance you wanna use.
To save hotbar spaces you change the visual of some with the same skills.
I could deal with that too.

And they didn't even bother updating the current models.

That's pretty outrageous all in all considering how little effort it would take.

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Originally Posted by Valoiz

I want Egi glamour for the expansion... not later... may we can change Garuda for Ramuh / Ifrit for Levi and Titan for Odin or something.... i dont care if u just change the "visual effects" but skills remain the same...

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Right? we go to new egis at level cap to no new egis at period, but hey in the "future" you might get glams for them, when is this "future", why is it not in launch of the expansion since no new egis are.

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Has there been a single moment in the entire history of Final Fantasy MMOs where summoners weren't crying about something?

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Not that I know of. I've been hearing nothing but complaints from them left and right since I first joined this game. Personally, I think SMN is fine gameplay wise. Anyone who says otherwise probably has no idea how to bring out the full power of the job... or you know... only care about the SMN's lore, and not the gameplay balance itself.

Personally, I'm glad the Egis are being meshed out on. I'm also rather excited to hear about possible egi-glamoring in the future, along with being able to channel Bahamut's power now. I'm going to have SO much fun with SMN... once I get around to it after PLD, DRK, etc, and all.

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Originally Posted by Galand

I am more upset that they stated they were re-working the class which sounds like a overhaul of its mechanics but instead they changed the name of a spell and give you 30 seconds to play with some direct damage abilities and no new egis.

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We were only given info of the new skills, and nothing related to any of the current abilities and if they were adjusted as far as I can tell from watching the stream. It's too early to make assumptions. New Egis would be redundant as hell seeing as you can only summon one at a time. Players would just flock to the 'best' summon to use and ignore the rest. Reskins and glamouring over the current Egis is apparently in the works, so look forward to that.

Personally, the new skills for the SMN look great and I am pretty excited to try them out once Heavensward hits.

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Originally Posted by Imoye

That's pretty outrageous all in all considering how little effort it would take.

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Define 'little'.

They could really make SMN like every FF before X, and just have them be glorified black mage spells, that do super high dmg, and have a super long cast time. Good luck though doing anything harder than dungeons, when your only way to do dmg is to stand still for 5 min while your cast bar fills up.

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Originally Posted by Valoiz

I want Egi glamour for the expansion... not later... may we can change Garuda for Ramuh / Ifrit for Levi and Titan for Odin or something.... i dont care if u just change the "visual effects" but skills remain the same...

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We've been waiting 2 years for the API and addon support. Egi glamour was just announced. Today. Literally.

Settle down, snowflake. You'll get it when it comes.

History of FF mmos?! There are only two, and summoners are fine in 11, they actually Summon, summons. I can't believe you guys are so close minded that simply because we don't kneel down and agree with your view on the class that makes us insane. The class boils down to being a poison mage with a auto attack pet.

How can you assume because people are complaining about the class and its mechanics, that we arent playing it correctly, that has nothing to do with any of it.

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Originally Posted by TruebladeNuke

Personally, I think SMN is fine gameplay wise. Anyone who says otherwise probably has no idea how to bring out their full power...

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Yet there has been countless threads about SMN desperately needing a rework for almost 2 years.
So.............

I for one am excited for the new summoner changes. While new egis would have been marginally neat, the way Egi's work in general though would have made them largely superficial since we already have 3 basic roles, Tank, Ranged Dps, and Melee Dps.

We're not a healer class so we don't need a healing pet and anything else added would just be a copy of what we already have with slightly new gimmicks that probably wouldn't be as good as Contagion.

Now.. combining with Bahamut..... oh yes... my body is ready.

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Originally Posted by Galand

There are only two, and summoners are fine in 11, they actually Summon, summons.

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When you boil right down to it, the FFXI summons are just glorified pets too. :p

People keep saying oh don't rely on the previous games when it comes to Summoner and its job.

So you mean to tell me people who decided to play their current jobs with no notion of their previous iterations?

Paladins tank
White Mages heal
Monks do melee damage
Blackmages use spells to deal damage.
Bards to ranged damage and support.
Warriors are melee damage oriented tanks

Summoners should be summoners who use their "pets" to deal damage, not be a simple poison mage with lame mechanics that don't flow together correctly.

Don't tell me people decided to play their job randomly and just stuck with it, they did so with a pre-concieved notion of what that job does historically.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Yet there has been countless threads about SMN desperately needing a rework for almost 2 years.
So.............

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This^, all day

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Originally Posted by Galand

History of FF mmos?! There are only two, and summoners are fine in 11, they actually Summon, summons. I can't believe you guys are so close minded that simply because we don't kneel down and agree with your view on the class that makes us insane. The class boils down to being a poison mage with a auto attack pet.

How can you assume because people are complaining about the class and its mechanics, that we arent playing it correctly, that has nothing to do with any of it.

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How is it close minded to prefer something original, to something that is a clone of something that came before it? If anything people who are fine with smn as they are, aside from a few mechanical tweaks find it funny how outraged people get about something as silly as pet appearance The most vitriolic comments I tend to see, come from people crying about how SMN isn't a clone of it's XI counterpart.

SMN in FFXIV is a dot based pet class, get over it, it's been this way for over a year now, the class has already been rebalanced around that playstyle for 3.0, they aren't going to change it, no matter how loud you cry, scream or throw a fit.

I think a lot of people wanted more from this update than we got. I'm waiting for the inevitably hilarity when the Bahamut skill deals scarcely any more damage than Fester currently does.

We've been stuck with these egis for ages. Their individual skills are so nondescript they could literally be shaped as anything and no one would tell the difference. We're not 'summoners' we're DoT fighters with a portable turret. Our egi's have no real identity which makes it feel less like a pet class and more like a trainee black mage. Is it really so hard to understand that people expected more from a job which has yet to live up to its own name?

At least having carbuncle as a skin will appease some players. Though, I still feel the summons themselves need more work than the base class does.

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Originally Posted by Gralna

SMN in FFXIV is a dot based pet class, get over it, it's been this way for over a year now, the class has already been rebalanced around that playstyle for 3.0, they aren't going to change it, no matter how loud you cry, scream or throw a fit.

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See, unfortunately this is where you're very very wrong. Most of the changes made to the classes over the years have been EXACTLY because people moaned and whined. Heck, they've already announced that they're adding a 'glamor' system for our avatars which is what many people COMPLAINED about. So, at least face reality. Whining works, and the louder the voice the quicker the changes will be made.

Never say never. You'll only be disappointed when it happens.

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Originally Posted by Galand

Summoners should be summoners who use their "pets" to deal damage

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And that is, in fact, literally what they are. You just don't like the particulars of how they deal damage or what their damage-dealing looks like.

People could apply the principle of your argument to all the other classes and gripe just as hard. At this point you're just looking for any excuse to complain about how the job doesn't cater specifically to your preferences and expectations, and you try to convince us all that your position is unique and justified.

K.jpg, well thanks for reinforcing the "typical smn" stereotype that's been around since 2004 FFXI

There should be new summons and some system to "glamor" them into the three roles. The excuse that they'd be too similar isn't good enough to take away a key aspect of what it is to be a summoner in this series.


It would be simple. One button for each summon. Click it to activate a buff for that summon that lasts say ten seconds. Then cast summon 1,2 or 3 and the buff active determines what the summon looks like and the summon spell determines it's roll and skills.

It's a win win. We get all the summons visually, we see more than just garuda, and they only need to develop three roles. Literally the only downside is the glut of skills one for each summon, but each person would like have a few favourites they stick to anyway. Maybe even have a summon roulette button.

While I am quite disappointed and sad that they're not releasing new egi's through HW release, I'm liking the improvement on the summoner themselves. Summoners get new skills is a good thing, but the bad thing is that they sacrificed new egis for it, instead of having both. Imo, bad because lore wise, as it doesn't quite show the progress of the summoner's summoning capability, in manifesting primal's essence they face and overpower, at least with Leviathan and Ramuh. Shiva was a questionable case, since her being questioned as fitting the primal title may or may not allow us to manifest her essence into an egi. Irregardless, this is bitter sweet news.

Although, if they delay any further, they're only digging their graves even deeper by raising the bar THAT much, meaning that if they're putting off new egi's this long, there better be super-awesome-leave-you-breathless improvements when they are released, like an all egi combination skill/limit break. SE better get in their heads that if they delay new egi's, they better make the release of new egi's worth the wait AND delay, after having the original primals released for so long (Leviathan in Through the Maelstrom and Ramuh in Defenders of Eorzea).

Edit: Actually, do egi's get new skills? Or did just the summoner have new skills...

Truth be told, as long as they do indeed allow us to "skin" the summoning types (melee, caster, tank) to be a different same type Egi/Carbuncle I think I am fairly okay with all of this.

Granted I am assuming they might add small visual differences to the pet abilities to go with said skins (with same potency and effect of course) but with skins, an expanded and more finely tuned pet role and Akh Morn I do think I can continue to look forward to and enjoy Heavensward as a summoner main.

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

And that is, in fact, literally what they are. You just don't like the particulars of how they deal damage or what their damage-dealing looks like.

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Wait, pets do damage now? Stop the press, this is the first time I've heard of that!

Truth be told though, our pets deal only a third of the overall damage. Most of it is from DoTs and abilities like Fester. Their low recast times and their relatively weak damage will not make them contenders for MVP.

What gets me is people are arguing to someone who wants a summoner to actually be just that...and not a DoT hero.
It's like a crazy idea or something. New skills do look cool, won't lie lol.

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Originally Posted by Galand

Summoners should be summoners who use their "pets" to deal damage, not be a simple poison mage with lame mechanics that don't flow together correctly.

Don't tell me people decided to play their job randomly and just stuck with it, they did so with a pre-concieved notion of what that job does historically.

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Summoner summon Bahamut's head, Bahamut's head do his attack and vanish. Don't sound this like the classic Summoners (without the 5 minute cutscenes) ? Summoners don't need pets, just something to summon.

i think the point was, why add new egi that fit the same role than the previous one. it's not like in FF11 or the other FF where one summons have one skill. here the summon have more skill and it seems with heavenward will get far more skill.

i think the idea to add skin that can be chosen later is the right solution. and more important will offer to the summoner the posibility to customize him play style, since you will choose the skin of your egi. maybe something like:
- you don't like ifrit-egi, use leviathan-egi instead
- you don't like garuda-egi, use Ramuh-egi
- you don't like titan-egi, use shivah-egi

or some stuff like this.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Summoner summon Bahamut's head, Bahamut's head do his attack and vanish. Don't sound this like the classic Summoners (without the 5 minute cutscenes) ? Summoners don't need pets, just something to summon.

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tell me in what it's different of what do a black mage? instead to see the black mage cast the fire ball you will have a head of bahamut shooting this fireball, in the end is simple a visual change, that not different of what do the blackmage.

it's like i have said before, a summoning jobs like in other FF, is only a black mage with different animation. the spell have the same function and same effect, only a different visual.

I was disappointed at first to hear that we won't have new "real" summons, but changing our current Egis' looks will make the trick for me. Actually it's almost the same thing... No need to have a thousand Egis with a thousand different abilities (especially in a game where you pretty much have to stick to an optimal rotation and not stray from it).

I'm very satisfied with the new Tri-Disaster, that will considerably speed-up the way we handle adds. Now maybe they'll still be alive when we're done casting our 3rd DoT on one of them (always THE one the other DPS will decide to kill 1st, thus totally wasting our time... :mad:).

I'm not sure I understood how Bahamut Transe stacks will work. Basically, we use Aetherflow, consume our 3 stacks, then use Bahamut Transe, which will add stacks just like Aetherflows does, and these stacks will be consumed to cast new abilities ? And then back to Aetherflow ?

Sounds like a lot of fun ! Chain-casting Ruin gets old real quick.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Not have new Pet's...
A summoner without new summons...o.o;;
Boggles my mind. I dunno what a Summoner is anymore.

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There are no summoners in FFXIV, just rebadged Warlocks from WoW.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

tell me in what it's different of what do a black mage? instead to see the black mage cast the fire ball you will have a head of bahamut shooting this fireball, in the end is simple a visual change, that not different of what do the blackmage.

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Exactly what classic summoners were. Just look at Rydia in FF IV.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

tell me in what it's different of what do a black mage? instead to see the black mage cast the fire ball you will have a head of bahamut shooting this fireball, in the end is simple a visual change, that not different of what do the blackmage.

it's like i have said before, a summoning jobs like in other FF, is only a black mage with different animation. the spell have the same function and same effect, only a different visual.

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It's also about the method of attack. Blm personally shaped the aether to create the effect where the summoner only knows how to bring forth a beast to do it.