Steps of Faith needs an ilevel raise...

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

Early on, I, uh, may have learned the hard way to not get too close to Vishap's feet. >_>

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Dont worry, I've been there lol xD Case in point ->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPpHTvAwFAQ Got stepped on before this point lol but that feeling of helping a new person to the encounter is very satisfying, I enjoy it a lot =D (Chat box @ the end) thanks to those who helped ^^

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Apparently the OP and his scant supporters don't understand clearly defined arguments to I'll just break it down to it's simplest. iL can't cure stupid. iL is not a measure of skill, it's a measure of tenacity. You can push yourself up to iL 115 without ever touching any of the truly difficult content. Square did that on purpose so those NOT running the truly difficult content can catch up to those who do. But... iL can't cure stupid. Steps of Faith can never be won... if you're stupid.

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Yes, but having ilevel 90 gear means you have barely done much of anything yet. You were literally carried through some of the dungeons. That is a nice way of saying it.

Some times a little work is nice. However when you come at a bare minimum you are holding back everyone else. It is a teamwork fight but having that gear means you have some idea of how to play your class, what moves you can use and you have done the dungeons where all those dragons strats COME from.

ilevel 90 is extremely fresh.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Quite frankly...

Asking to raise the iLv requirement, or to have the fight taken out of Trial Roulette, is the same thing as asking for first timers to be barred from the DF completely---you just want quick runs, fast runs, easy runs where everyone's experienced.

Asking for Vishap's HP to be reduced or Cannons/Dragon Slayer damage to be boosted is basically saying, "I can't do the gimmicks right, please make my wrong way the right way."

Now the argument that you don't feel powerful in this fight, that is a whole different matter and I actually agree with that. Whether we are supposed to feel powerful against Vishap, perhaps the answer lies in the lore.

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Honestly saying a fight can only be done one way and shouldn't be done another is a silly matter in itself. There should be multiple ways of succeeding something, not just one. Making it one way just makes it an unfun chore. There should always be multiple ways to tackle a boss, and honestly that is what is lacking in FFXIV. There is always mostly only one way to do something, making players feel not clever or right.

Quite frankly...

Asking to raise the iLv requirement, or to have the fight taken out of Trial Roulette, is the same thing as asking for first timers to be barred from the DF completely---you just want quick runs, fast runs, easy runs where everyone's experienced.

Asking for Vishap's HP to be reduced or Cannons/Dragon Slayer damage to be boosted is basically saying, "I can't do the gimmicks right, please make my wrong way the right way."

Now the argument that you don't feel powerful in this fight, that is a whole different matter and I actually agree with that. Whether we are supposed to feel powerful against Vishap, perhaps the answer lies in the lore.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Yes, but having ilevel 90 gear means you have barely done much of anything yet. You were literally carried through some of the dungeons. That is a nice way of saying it.

Some times a little work is nice. However when you come at a bare minimum you are holding back everyone else. It is a teamwork fight but having that gear means you have some idea of how to play your class, what moves you can use and you have done the dungeons where all those dragons strats COME from.

ilevel 90 is extremely fresh.

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Or it's someone saving up soldiery/poetics, and has crap luck with lots. At i90, it's still possible they have completed WoD and up to t7 of coil. Low ilevel doesn't mean you're stupid or fresh. Could also be a second character that's rushing through it.

I've seen more people in overgeared stuff die to steps of faith, plus you can just put Ilvl90 dudes on cannons if you need to. This is a battle where Skill>gear, and I think someone doesn't know how to do Steps of Faith.

"Yes, but..." doesn't really change anything. Square beat Steps of Faith at iL 90, players in iL 120~ lose frequently... it's not about how much damage you can soak, it's about using the many varied tools at your disposal. There's cannons, dragonators, ballista binders, unlimited respawns... all you have to do is use them intelligently.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Square beat Steps of Faith at iL 90.

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"Ilvl" 90 for square can be different than "Ilvl" 90 for said new player. Said new player could be sporting ilevel 70 gear, and ilevel 100 crafted gear with no materia, while "Ilvl" 90 square is probably in high end level 90 gear, and maybe crafted gear with full materia, or sporting an ilevel 100-110 weapon and a mix of lower stuff. It depends on what they were all wearing. Can you show me a video of them doing it so I can see their health, and their stats and the gear they actually used? ilevel means a lot, but it doesn't tell you what gear they were actually USING.

They could of been using full i90 allagan gear with a higher ilvl weapon, which is much MUCH better then typical ilvl 90 crafted gear.

Hmmm dps actually doing more than just pressing 123 on boss? Seems legit ppl r having trouble trying to figure out more than half of the dps come from the artillery.

the 1 time i puged it on DF....went blind w/o got a clue whats going on , but we learned how it worked , and on 2nd try we killed it, on first day patch, last week i helped the FC for a kill... i just dps the boss a bit and managed the dragonkiller...and i could do that even as lvl 1 :P ....fast and easy

ilvl is irrelevant in this trial , outside of tank of adds and ilvl90 is enough for that.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

the 1 time i puged it on DF....went blind w/o got a clue whats going on , but we learned how it worked , and on 2nd try we killed it, on first day patch, last week i helped the FC for a kill... i just dps the boss a bit and managed the dragonkiller...and i could do that even as lvl 1 :P ....fast and easy

ilvl is irrelevant in this trial , outside of tank of adds and ilvl90 is enough for that.

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First day patch will have much better players then after. They will be much better geared then players doing it now. Thats because everyone needs it, as time goes on less and less skilled players will need it.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

First day patch will have much better players then after. They will be much better geared then players doing it now. Thats because everyone needs it, as time goes on less and less skilled players will need it.

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Do you purposely skip past the parts saying that even i90 gear isn't needed for this fight? I'm just gonna ask this in all honesty, why do you continue to play the game? Every post of yours has been a complaint, even ones that contradict a previous one. It's clear this game isn't for you, and you just want it to be something it's not.

The fight is super easy when people listen, take the time at the start to explain everything when someone is new. As long as cannons and dragon killer, along with tank holding adds all do their jobs correctly, it's one of the easiest trials there is in the game, just time consuming.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

I don't get it... first you seem to agree that the requirements to access Ishgard are too harsh for the newbies. Now you want to make it harder for them? The ilvl is fine as it is.

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It's Nektulos, that guy complains about every single thing in this game.
It's not a real DPS race and DPS is not the problem, it's people who TRY to DPS race everything when you HAVE to use the mechanic's.
The game TELLS you when to get on the cannons, go to the tower and then it's up
to the rest of you to do what you need to. How much hand holding do you need guys?

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Originally Posted by Chiapet

Steps of faith has got to be the most annoying thing in this game. You miss one thing you're stuck.. drag out this battle for 12 mins and wait for your failure...

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I call BS on this. I was in a pt that missed the first DK AND the last DK. Killed him before the last barrier (not the final wall) went down.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

They could of been using full i90 allagan gear with a higher ilvl weapon, which is much MUCH better then typical ilvl 90 crafted gear.

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Wow... you know not how iL is measured. It's an average of all your gear, not just armor. Also... what? Crafted is worse? You do know that the advantage of crafted gear is performing beyond dungeon gear through the use of materia. It's how Blue Garter trounced Final Coil weeks before anyone else. Also, Coil, in it's original state, was bested in Darklight. People STILL have a hard time against Twintania in iL 120~! You're confusing iL with skill... and it's sad. Really sad.

I think it less to do with raising Ilevel and more towards increasing the damage of the DragonKiller damage done to the Boss.

The Trial always push the idea that the dragonkillers are the vital heavy damage mechanic that needs to hit the boss for taking a large chunk of its life out but the amount done by hitting the boss with all dragonkiller and explosives is only 50% of the boss's HP while the remaining 50% has to be done by constantly DoT and damaging him through the trial.

I think it would be better if the boss being hit by all mechanics should be around 75% HP lose over the current 50% lost of HP since most groups formed by DF will not meet the required DPS check to take out the boss's remaining 50% HP but most of them do meet the requirement to take out at least 25% HP in a DF group.

Fight needs harsher IQ level requirement instead.

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Originally Posted by rjspencer4

Fight needs harsher IQ level requirement instead.

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The lower ilevel is to make it so the terribad players can be carried. The instance is doable 7 player.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Apparently the OP and his scant supporters don't understand clearly defined arguments so I'll just break it down to it's simplest. iL can't cure stupid. iL is not a measure of skill, it's a measure of tenacity. You can push yourself up to iL 115 without ever touching any of the truly difficult content. Square did that on purpose so those NOT running the truly difficult content can catch up to those who do. But... iL can't cure stupid. Steps of Faith can never be won... if you're stupid.

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I think you're awesome.

Use cannons, no ilevel needed. ADDS aren't meant to be butchered by facerolling them without cannons.

The fight lets you know when to use the mechanics that are the key to success in the fight. Ilvl90 is more than enough to see the Trial through, players just need to realize there are mechanics you need to follow and use and ilv105-110 isn't going to do that for them.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

The lower ilevel is to make it so the terribad players can be carried. The instance is doable 7 player.

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7 at ilvl90 maybe, it can easily be done with 6 at ilvl130, maybe even 5.

The thing about steps of faith is the same thing about kezzel's gorge back on tera. For those who had the ...pleasure of playing during the release of this dungeon, they know how much pug groups can make you suffer. For those who don't know what i'm talking about (since they removed this dungeon due being outdated a year later)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhE1RG28QQM

Jokes and different games aside. I can understand where OP's point comes from, however imo, it's not the i90 requirement but what takes to get i90. It's too easy to get it now. If we think about it, as long one person gets to i70 they can just farm ST/WoD and pump their ilv from i70 to i110+ without issues, while having to manage almost no mechanics. Any newbie who's used to just zerg content will think SoF will be the same and just screw things up. Due to this i don't think changing ilv would change anything. Maybe burst it to i100-i110 to force newer players to go through more content before trying SoF but i believe things would stay the same.

The only changes i think that would affect SoF success rates would be a actual wipe mechanic, its easy to tell when the fight is over and yet we have to wait 5-10 mins for it to restart, nobody likes to wait for a failure to happen. Letting the fight end when everyone is dead would work a lot better than the current fight.
And 2nd, 2 tanks. This fight does not need 2 tanks at all, same as urth's fountain this fight only gets harder with double tanks. However this change is optional since we can just shove one into the cannons.

This instance is all mechanics and little skill so raising ilvl would be useless. If you hope that you can dps the main boss with sword and spears you're going to wipe over and over and over again. The only way to win is using the cannons and landing dragon slayers.

*Cannons should be manned by melee dps who also get snares when it's time.
*Range dps should kill biast, hit main boss a little, and get dragon slayer.
*Tanks need to gather adds together under main boss for cannon AoE and always keep the mobs in cannon range!
*Healers should keep tanks alive.
*When Boss is breaking down a barrier, everyone should dps him until he starts to move again.

It's honestly not a hard fight but if the community makes it difficult I don't SE is going to add more of these fun events into the game :(

My friends and I did half of Steps of Faith with five people and still cleared it.

We q'd with 1 heals(me), 1 tank and 3 DPS. One of our DPS was i90. We were helping him get a clear. The PUGS left as soon as they saw which trial they were in, but we pulled anyway. The DPS manned the cannons/harpoon and DPS'd the boss when they could. Halfway through we finally got the rest of our group, and cleared it when it reached the barrels.

After experiencing that, I'm pretty sure any group is capable of carrying an i90 newbie.

If I join it in my Trial Roulette as my WHM, I'm backing out, and not because I'm stupid, but because the chances of the rest of the group being competent is exceedingly dry, and I'm NOT waiting, an inordinately long time to wipe. I'll ask if everybody knows the fight. If more than 2 people say no, bye bye

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Originally Posted by Devils_Lawyer

Its not a dps issue, if you hit the dragon with the weapons available then i90 is more then enough to kill it in time.

Heck its not even a hard fight but since it takes more then 5 minutes to complete and offers no reward players will run away from it as if it was a plague.

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Quoted For Truth.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

If I join it in my Trial Roulette as my WHM, I'm backing out, and not because I'm stupid, but because the chances of the rest of the group being competent is exceedingly dry, and I'm NOT waiting, an inordinately long time to wipe. I'll ask if everybody knows the fight. If more than 2 people say no, bye bye

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Fair enough, the drop-out penalty was made for a reason. Still, no sense doing something you don't want to do.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

and not because I'm stupid

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Trading a fifteen minute fight for a thirty minute time out does, in fact, make you stupid. Or lazy. Take your pick.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

Trading a fifteen minute fight for a thirty minute time out does, in fact, make you stupid. Or lazy. Take your pick.

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Fifteen minute if everyone knows what to do. If people muck up, it's not a bad trade off at all.

Does the OP seriously think raising the ilvl requirement is going to make the situation any better? Damage comes from the cannons, all attacks can be dodged or stunned. Even if the ilvl requirement was bumped to 130, nothing would change.

People leave because it takes anywhere from 10-15 minutes in a pug and you can't reset the fight, even when it's doomed to fail, ilvl raise isn't magically going to chage this.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

It is a teamwork fight but having that gear means you have some idea of how to play your class

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You don't honestly believe in this, do you?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Yes, but having ilevel 90 gear means you have barely done much of anything yet. You were literally carried through some of the dungeons. That is a nice way of saying it.

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It's actually pretty presumptuous. If the player is putting in their fair share, they're not being carried.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Does the OP seriously think raising the ilvl requirement is going to make the situation any better? Damage comes from the cannons, all attacks can be dodged or stunned. Even if the ilvl requirement was bumped to 130, nothing would change.

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This is totally false!
The queue times would increase >_<

I don't completely disagree. However, of you see an i90 dps and are concerned there are this lovely Canon's you could put them on so I'm not convinced with that specific argument. That said I do believe the dps check to be somewhat above i90. 100 would be good imo.

A player's ilevel is sadly not proportional to their capacity to comprehend and execute mechanics. I've seen i90ish people fare better than some players around i120.

If the ilvl was even 120 the clear rate wouldn't go up much. Since a lot of people aren't even using their gear because they doing cannons or whatnot.

Like all story battles it will eventually have echo that can go up to 50% make it so you could miss every arrow and not use cannons and win.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

If the ilvl was even 120 the clear rate wouldn't go up much. Since a lot of people aren't even using their gear because they doing cannons or whatnot.

Like all story battles it will eventually have echo that can go up to 50% make it so you could miss every arrow and not use cannons and win.

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That isn't going to happen in this trial.

The echo was a gift from Hydaelyn so to speak. Midgardsormr made it so we can no longer receive this power, at least for anything that's based after his fight time wise.

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Originally Posted by SlyTribal

That isn't going to happen in this trial.

The echo was a gift from Hydaelyn so to speak. Midgardsormr made it so we can no longer receive this power, at least for anything that's based after his fight time wise.

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We still have the Echo. What Midgardsormr took from us was the blessing we received at the end of the 2.0 story-line.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

We still have the Echo. What Midgardsormr took from us was the blessing we received at the end of the 2.0 story-line.

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No, we don't, he specifically said that we were disconnected from her now. Like at the end of 2.55:

When Hydaelyn spoke out to Minfilia, we never heard her voice because Midgardsormr disconnected us completely from her.

Either way. OP has seemingly already fled this thread and running up crap in others. So may as well let it sink.

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Originally Posted by SlyTribal

No, we don't, he specifically said that we were disconnected from her now. Like at the end of 2.55:

When Hydaelyn spoke out to Minfilia, we never heard her voice because Midgardsormr disconnected us completely from her.

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He removed the blessing we received from Hydaelyn. You can tell this from the crystals we collected in 2.0 dimming out. These aren't related to the Echo.

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Originally Posted by SlyTribal

No, we don't, he specifically said that we were disconnected from her now. Like at the end of 2.55:

When Hydaelyn spoke out to Minfilia, we never heard her voice because Midgardsormr disconnected us completely from her.

Either way. OP has seemingly already fled this thread and running up crap in others. So may as well let it sink.

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Nope, we still have the echo. What we lost was the blessing of light (circle thing with the crystals) because it was draining/killing hydaelyn. The japanese text says that more clearly than the english one.

Here's a better (fan made) translation of the dialogue
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ersus_english/