Increased Droprate for Onion Knight/Puff of Darkness?

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

I think it would be better if players couldn't roll on minions they already have but you can't really say it's unfair the way it is now. That person had a 1/24 chance and now you have a 1/24 chance. Not really anything unfair about that in my opinion.

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That's good and all, but the unfairness pertains to, as stated by someone in this thread previously, someone who rolls on the puff or onion knight that they already have would have no choice but to toss it, when others who ran it countless times have that chance wasted by someone's carelessness or douchebaggery. It would be fair to have the opportunity to roll go towards only to those who don't have the minion. If this were the case, drop rate and rng wouldn't impact as much as how it is now.

I don't mind it being some what difficult to obtain due to it's rarity. However, they are constantly increasing drop rates to mounts within trials and various other rates within the game for the sake of vanity. Yet for some reason these 2 minions receive nothing, I would love to see it in every run or maybe doing something to prevent people who already have it to roll again or even make the item tradeable.

It's one or the last 2 I need to collect in order to have a full set of minions so am getting a bit tired of having next to no chance of obtaining this minion. As some one pointed out, it isn't even need to progress the game so please please change something about it so those who wish to obtain have a better chance. ^^

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Originally Posted by Tayolynn

That's good and all, but the unfairness pertains to, as stated by someone in this thread previously, someone who rolls on the puff or onion knight that they already have would have no choice but to toss it, when others who ran it countless times have that chance wasted by someone's carelessness or douchebaggery.

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Right. Or even let people roll for it again, but then let them give it to another player, sell it on the MB, trade it in for seals, just something. It's ridiculous that right now you can roll for the minion, win it, and then be forced to destroy it because you literally can't do anything else with it. If the only reason to roll for the minion is to prevent someone else from having it, that shouldn't be allowed.

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Originally Posted by Tayolynn

That's good and all, but the unfairness pertains to, as stated by someone in this thread previously, someone who rolls on the puff or onion knight that they already have would have no choice but to toss it, when others who ran it countless times have that chance wasted by someone's carelessness or douchebaggery. It would be fair to have the opportunity to roll go towards only to those who don't have the minion. If this were the case, drop rate and rng wouldn't impact as much as how it is now.

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As I already said, I don't disagree about those who have it not being able to roll on it. However, your two ideas: fairness and having a better chance at it than those who have already gotten it are contradictory. Even if all 23 people already have the minion and roll on it, your odds are no worse than what they would be if you were in the first group to ever clear those raids. You're not complaining about worse odds than other people (unfairness) you're complaining that you can't have better odds than those other people.

The problem comes from an idea that is morally subjective: that if others don't need that item then you are entitled to it. I don't see anything wrong with that concept by the way, it acts as a soft nerf to item drops and item drops should get easier over time. I just don't like concepts like unfairness being tossed around by players who have identical opportunities.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

As I already said, I don't disagree about those who have it not being able to roll on it. However, your two ideas: fairness and having a better chance at it than those who have already gotten it are contradictory. Even if all 23 people already have the minion and roll on it, your odds are no worse than what they would be if you were in the first group to ever clear those raids. You're not complaining about worse odds than other people (unfairness) you're complaining that you can't have better odds than those other people.
The problem comes from an idea that is morally subjective: that if others don't need that item then you are entitled to it. I don't see anything wrong with that concept by the way, it acts as a soft nerf to item drops and item drops should get easier over time. I just don't like concepts like unfairness being tossed around by players who have identical opportunities.

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I'm saying that having the drop wasted through malicious or devious acts is an oversight that SE allowed which is considered not fair. If roll priority goes to those who don't have the minion was implemented from the start, this thread and debate wouldn't exist. Maybe I do feel entitled for a chance to roll since I don't have it yet. But when the day comes when I do get the minion, will I roll for it again? No, because I'm considerate to those who don't have it should have the priority of rolling on it. I'm quite offended that you're labeling my opinion as a complaint, since I feel my point of view is simply looking for the best interest of everyone. Although I'm unable to agree that your protection of identical opportunities is giving a huge leeway for those to wrongfully play with said opportunity, given the minions were released quite a while. If 23 people who already have the minion, roll for it, then all I see are 23 douchebags preventing that 1 sad person from getting it. My point of view of this goes beyond the simplicity of a minion drop. It entails with my attitude of common courtesy, being considerate of others, and the best interest of everyone, while having an equal amount of enjoyment and challenge.

I may be responding to your responses inaccurately, but it might be because I'm still having trouble seeing from your point of view and I have a feeling that this'll drag on and on with no common ground. But you're entitled to your opinion and if you still disagree with me, then it's fine. I don't want to force you to agree with me.

I've seen the Puff more times than I've seen the tank chestpiece. Can that get a droprate buff instead?

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I've seen the Puff more times than I've seen the tank chestpiece. Can that get a droprate buff instead?

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Want to know something funny?

I have main tanked World of Darkness of Both PLD and WAR. Yet Tank pieces only drop when I'm on WAR. If I go PLD, the loot drops are like "Your well has long since dried up." Yet when I run on WAR it's like "HALLELUJAH IT'S RAINING TANK DROPS!" True story. :| Got close to my full set minus helm in 4 runs out of 10 I've been tanking in. Those four runs? I was WAR.

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Originally Posted by Grimmel

Want to know something funny?

I have main tanked World of Darkness of Both PLD and WAR. Yet Tank pieces only drop when I'm on WAR. If I go PLD, the loot drops are like "Your well has long since dried up." Yet when I run on WAR it's like "HALLELUJAH IT'S RAINING TANK DROPS!" True story. :| Got close to my full set minus helm in 4 runs out of 10 I've been tanking in. Those four runs? I was WAR.

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So I should 50 WAR first instead of even trying to farm as PLD? That doesn't surprise me.

As PLD all I see are belt, helm, and pants. And I think even my caster boots have caster boots, now.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

So I should 50 WAR first instead of even trying to farm as PLD? That doesn't surprise me.

As PLD all I see are belt, helm, and pants. And I think even my caster boots have caster boots, now.

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Pretty much. I was a bit taken a back as well by this infinite mystery.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

As for the overall drop chance, I think it's fine the way it is. It's a vanity minion, it doesn't do anything, it's not needed for anything. Some items should be rarer than others. At least it's not a piece of gear that you need to progress. I collect all the minions so I understand that gameplay and what players feel they "need" varies but I'd rather have an impressive collection (because of the rarity of some items) than a massive collection that is the same as everyone else's.

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So from what you're saying here; the Primal Ponies should have never gotten their drop rates increased either because guess what? They're purely vanity items as well.

All those primal ponies you farmed to get the Kirin should have never had their drop rates increased even though you only have to roll against 7 other people to win it.

Yet you're saying these two minions, also vanity items; shouldn't have their drop rates increased even when you're rolling against 23 other people.

I dunno but that seems pretty wrong from my point of view.

Let me remind you that it is FAR easier to get 7 like minded individuals to go on a primal pony farm for everyone to get a pony, than it is to get 23 like minded individuals all from the same server to farm possibly and quite literally over 100 runs of World of Darkness and Syrcus Tower so everyone can get their minions.

Your logic is flawed.

yes, ponies should have never gotten their drop rates increased, because now you get your kirin the easy way and in the end the kirin is only one mount between many others. not the outstandig, rare super-mount with own title and stuff. only a shiny pony with an strange head... if you spent months to get kirin and now that droprate... i can understand if people quit the game. what's next? i am grinding 1 mio mgp for the fenrir mount and next patch it will only cost the half? or even less? why should i EVER spend my time to get the rare vanity items when square probably gift them to everyone only a few months later.

but the minions in st/wod are another story because it will be very hard to find the 23 other people to get inside these dungeons once 3.0 is released. but it is okay to roll against these 23 other people v.v/ it's not really harder to roll against 23 or 7 people. in both cases you will need a 90+ to win.

<--- 84 chances so far to get Puff of Darkness and lost them all(even with 3x 97!!) >_>

Im still wondering why she isnt already in the cashshop for 5$...

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

<--- 84 chances so far to get Puff of Darkness and lost them all(even with 3x 97!!) >_>

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and then you get it at try 85 or 100 or whatever and after that they increase the droprate and your super rare minion you spent so much time for is not longer super rare... i don't think you will be thaaat amused. and if it wasn't that rare - how many minions do you have wich you never use? that gobbue baby for example? was a hard work to get it, i am really proud i have my gobbue baby :O

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Originally Posted by Tint

and then you get it at try 85 or 100 or whatever and after that they increase the droprate and your super rare minion you spent so much time for is not longer super rare... i don't think you will be thaaat amused. and if it wasn't that rare - how many minions do you have wich you never use? that gobbue baby for example? was a hard work to get it, i am really proud i have my gobbue baby :O

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To be honest? As a mount and minion collector; more so minions, I could give less than a rats behind if my super rare minions that I felt proud about getting at the time got a nerf and the drop rate was increased. Why? Because I want everyone to experience the joy of owning a neat minion to add to their collection. I'm not some rabid collector who barks and complains that someone has it easier than I did.

Though I will take pride in the fact that I got it before the increase and I will congratulate the player and say that it used to be a lot harder to get and that I am glad they made it easier for newer players.

I think the point is that the minions are behind a double wall of rng. First you have to hope it even drops. Then you have to roll against 23 other people, sometimes less if people who already have it don't roll. So the thinking is, at least let it be a guaranteed drop, and then you only have the one rng wall. I know some will argue "Well then everyone will get it and then no one will run the tower. " It's still behind one rng wall and if you're like me and roll sub 30 like pretty much all the time, it will still take a long time to get.

Puff of darkness needs to be 100% rolling against 23 people is just horrible your chance to get it is so low. Ponies already got buffed so this should too.

Finally got my minion today. Will keep this thread alive because I don't want anyone to have to run 250+ WoDs for a minion ever again.

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Originally Posted by Grimmel

To be honest? As a mount and minion collector; more so minions, I could give less than a rats behind if my super rare minions that I felt proud about getting at the time got a nerf and the drop rate was increased. Why? Because I want everyone to experience the joy of owning a neat minion to add to their collection. I'm not some rabid collector who barks and complains that someone has it easier than I did.

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I'm excatly the same.... I don't think I could ever be mad at someone who got something easier than me. In fact, I would be pleased they wouldn't have to go through the endless runs I did for something which is only an vanity item. Before anyone asks, I go through each of my minions and play with each one quite often. I may have a favourite but I still treat each one like they are special to me. ^^

Anecdotally I feel like the Onion Knight has a higher drop rate. I got it pretty easily and I've seen them drop quite frequently in my runs.
Considering how easy CT2 is, it's probably fine the way it is.

I do WoD only about once a week nowadays and I have only seen it come out one time, and I did not win the roll.
I would support an increase to the drop rate of Puff of Darkness, maybe to match Onion Knight if they are not equal like I suspect.

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Originally Posted by Grimmel

So from what you're saying here; the Primal Ponies should have never gotten their drop rates increased either because guess what? They're purely vanity items as well.

All those primal ponies you farmed to get the Kirin should have never had their drop rates increased even though you only have to roll against 7 other people to win it.

Yet you're saying these two minions, also vanity items; shouldn't have their drop rates increased even when you're rolling against 23 other people.

I dunno but that seems pretty wrong from my point of view.

Let me remind you that it is FAR easier to get 7 like minded individuals to go on a primal pony farm for everyone to get a pony, than it is to get 23 like minded individuals all from the same server to farm possibly and quite literally over 100 runs of World of Darkness and Syrcus Tower so everyone can get their minions.

Your logic is flawed.

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You haven't said anything to "disprove" my logic LOL. My logic is that if you make something less rare it also become less exciting to get and have. You didn't address that point at all. You just said "You are fine with the drop rates, I am not fine with the drop rates, so your logic is flawed." LOL

Liking or not liking drop rates is an opinion, not something that can be factually proved or disproven. I said why I have that opinion and of course you're free to disagree, although I think many people who feel the way you do will come around to my way of thinking once they have what they desire. Everyone wants something to be easier while they don't have it but once they have it, they wish it was a bit harder so they can feel like they achieved something special.

I don't get your point about the primal ponies at all. Yes it's easier to farm ponies than Puff of Darkness. So? Not all items should have the same ease of farmability, nor should all items be intended to be farmed on laser focus. Run WoD for your weekly and when you eventually get Puff, you can actually feel excited, rather than just that relieved feeling you get because you ran WoD 100 times in a single week and are now burned out.

SE's increasing the drop rate on ponies has caused a huge increase in people farming that content. Even as a mount/minion/card collector, I wouldn't bother actively farming for items with a super low drop rate unless I was in just the right mood. It was a good move to get more people into primal content, although still questionable because groups want experienced players only for dedicated farms. But maybe SE didn't care about helping new players clear and just wanted to keep people preoccupied until 3.0 (I think this is very likely). Given that, you can bet they'll increase Onion Knight and Puff of Darkness drop rates eventually too. But at least there will be new rare minions to get for collectors.

And for the record, in addition to Kirin I also have Onion Knight and Puff of Darkness. I think players should spend less time on the forums crying for things to be made easier and more time doing the same thing to get the rewards as other players who have earned them already.

I think i'm in the minority here, but I like the fact that they are as rare as they are and want the minions to stay that way.

I agree with the notion of having people that already have the minions not being able to roll on them, though. That's pretty silly.

You know what is pretty funny is that a fc mate of mine just got his minion recently. It seems like you need a 99 rng to really get it

Posted in another thread in the bug report forum, I thought I'll repost it here.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings,

We're planning to make it so players who already own minions and mounts cannot need or greed on them by mistake.

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While it's not a drop-rate buff, it's better than nothing.

That is some good news... that's a good implement ^^

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

Posted in another thread in the bug report forum, I thought I'll repost it here.



While it's not a drop-rate buff, it's better than nothing.

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The question is when will this become a thing? Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Before the expansion hopefully, I imagine it could be quite difficulty getting ST/WoD runs or Pony farms and whatnot for quite a while after the expansion releases and things calm down.

Still farming WoD for Puff of Darkness 117/118 minions :(

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

I finally managed to get the minion, after countless, approximately 250+ runs of WoD, resulting in my having every single piece of gear before the minion.

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I got the Puff of Darkness on the very first WoD run, and even accidentally need'ed it a second time, and shows up 50% of the time during WoD. Meanwhile, Onion Knight I've seen only 4 times ever and have never been able to get it.

So I think part of that was because when WoD was introduced, people didn't need on it because they incorrectly thought it counted towards their reward for that week, once that limit dropped off, people just need'ed on everything.

In all my runs in wod... I think i saw puff 2 times or maybe 3 and always lost it ç_ç

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

shows up 50% of the time during WoD.

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To put it mildly, that's bovine excrement.

I farmed WoD until I had full Demon gear on all my classes, so as you can imagine I've killed the Cloud of Darkness a LOT. I have seen maybe a grand total of 10 Puffs drop, and 2 Shards.