Would you PvP more if...

We, the PvP community are already tired of saying in PvP forums and everywhere about the absurd GC restriction messing our queues....

But not happy with this, the dev team already decided to put a new map in heavensward and state that it will still being grand company based...

(Enter your favorite ./disappointed gif here)

I think making a pvp mode with the whole GC rule done away with is a good idea, but it still would not have me doing pvp.

If PvP gave good PvE rewards I would do it all the time. As it stands the pvp gear you get is useless in its own game mode, and if you try to use it outside of PvP you are missing a whole secondary stat and the iLVL isn't competitive.

The GC idea was cool at the outset, but once it started sounding like it was getting unbalanced and people were switching gcs to win and win boosting became a thing, I lost interest.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I think making a pvp mode with the whole GC rule done away with is a good idea, but it still would not have me doing pvp.

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This sentiment is probably why they're not bothering, really.

When you look at the game, it seems very apparent that its not done with PvP in mind when you see how some of the skills work, as well as the melee latency, crowd control and espeiscally the healers when it initially came out. First healers were dominating frontlines, now they're useless in slaughter. BLMs have no presence in secure, ranged scoffs off melee in slaughter.

Then you come to the GC restrictions; I can't play with my friends and queue times for my group are always 30+ minutes at any time of the day. I wanted to get into PvP, I really do (that ADS mount), but its especially the queue times and the restriction that keeps me from enjoying/playing it.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

The GC idea was cool at the outset, but once it started sounding like it was getting unbalanced and people were switching gcs to win and win boosting became a thing, I lost interest.

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This is a reason the GC system is broken. People is too disperate (newb ones) to get their ADS mount, so they change to 'winning' GCs for having easier wins and easier achievement... By doing this, the queue increases a lot for the rest. Especially for those of the 'winning' GC.
It's not first time I notice my quee either goes slower, or faster, by changing GC.

I'd PvP more if the queue let me enter.
+ I'd PvP even more if they removed that stupid ilvl sync from frontlines and changed morale back to how it was. (PvP gear = useless now)

I don't like pvp, I feel it has no place in MMOs and it's inclusion into the game world proper only brings out the worst players. Thankfully, that is not the case in XIV, the pvp is off in it's own little world away from the game proper. That said, the only way I would do more pvp (I have done it a couple times... terribly boring affairs) is if they connected it more to the Companies. We've got three more tiers of advancement, why not make them part of the Frontlines experience? "You've shown you can fight with the best of us, now prove you can lead us!" The rewards as they stand now are just glamour bait, no reason to actually use them in the game proper because they trade a stat, an arguably more useful stat, for morale which has no use outside of pvp. And the mounts... yeah, whatever.

I've been trying to pvp a lot more lately, but seeing as almost every time it ends up 2 on 1 to ensure the GC i'm with doesn't win, it got boring pretty quick.. I'm actually hoping for a good den revival. I enjoyed 4v4 where it's an actual test of skill, not how many teams are sitting on your alliance.

ADS is a great mount, shame it's locked behind something that takes forever to queue for. I do enjoy the PvP, just not the way players have made it all about win boosting for x GC, and not the queue times. I -still- don't understand why 8man+ premades are able to queue and fight completely random built parties, either. I understand the freedom aspect of doing what you want, but it makes things pretty lame when it's the same team over and over facerolling some randoms you ended up with.

Short answer: No

Longer answer: Still no.

I'm looking forward to what they are going to do to PvP in Heavensward. As near as I can figure, we will be getting some new maps. I completely agree with the OP that the GC restrictions is what really hurts PvP in this game. It's tough enough putting PvP into a heavily co-operative MMO like FF with little history of any PvP in the franchise but to restrict it by GC AND have 72 players as the optimal setup? Nobel concepts and makes sense from a lore standpoint but it was almost inevitable to see participation decline. I love the Gear and its why I PvP'ed (looking forward to the DRK, ARC and MCH gears and what the higher tierd gear will look like).

I'm hoping to see a Summoners Rift/DOTA map and a 5v5 of party roles. I doubt this will come but whatever they make for a new map NEEDS to have no GC restrictions. Please fix PvP so i can get my DRG gear! I queue for it every day and I'm lucky to get one or two matches in.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

And before anyone says skill is involved in this game, it's not. It's pure numbers. You can be crap geared to nothing in dark souls and win a 3 on 1 match. Let's any 1 class crush 3 people at once.

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I don't know about you. But I had the distinct pleasure of seeing a single Ninja manage to kill three people by himself(myself included since I was the original target). Yes, skill IS required in this game. It comes down to the job you are playing. If you're playing Black Mage, no, not necessarily if you're just turrenting. But if you're in the presence of a 1v1. What you going to do? Scathe won't save you. Bind? Sleep? You wake them up or unbind them you're in a world of hurt. As for Dark Souls...Roll, Roll, Roll, Roll. Roll, Abuse Latency back stab. Roll, Roll. Or the typical caster with ridiculous power behind casts. No really. I don't feel like there's as much skill there in Dark Souls personally. But I digress.

I forgot to add, the Adrenaline bar completely ruins any sort of possibility to play correctly.
It's always full and people are always getting 1 shot...

I don't think it should be removed, but the dmg should be nerfed on it. reduced by half I'd say.
Atleast not 1 shot from full hp -_-

I'd pvp more if more people pvp'd. Pretty much what everyone feels I would guess. Bad cycle but pvp just needs to be made more fun to do anything about it

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Originally Posted by Miste

I don't mind PVP, but I have no reason to do it really.

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Truly, no offense meant.

But this' a prime example of why not to post a PVP discussion in General Discussion.

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Originally Posted by Azper

Short answer: No

Longer answer: Still no.

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Another prime example.

You're going to just get a ton of people who dislike or have no interest in PVP IN GENERAL saying "no," because it makes no difference to them... they just aren't PVPer's.

SE's going to look at this thread & see a lack of interest or see players indifferent & think it's Ok to leave it as-is which' NOT OKAY.

You're speaking to the wrong audience dude, please move your thread to the PVP Forum.


There's plenty of interest in FFXIV's PVP, tons of people WANT to PVP in this game but feel hindered by broken Queue Times & GC Restriction.

A good portion of this thread will inevitably comprise a lot of people who could care less which isn't a bad thing, we just don't want SE to think that means their isn't enough generated interested to merit further PVP additions/adjustments

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Originally Posted by DrOstler

I'd pvp more if more people pvp'd. Pretty much what everyone feels I would guess. Bad cycle but pvp just needs to be made more fun to do anything about it.

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People would inevitably PVP more if they could do so with friends more easily. The GC Restriction is slaughtering PVP.

What you who love pvp don't seem to understand is that you're a vocal minority. You represent a small population of players. For every 500~1000 players there's only a handful that enjoy pvp enough to care. This is what you're up against. The problem isn't getting them to love pvp as you do, that will never happen. The problem is giving them a reason to even try, something that has an impact on their non-pvp time. That something doesn't exist right now and until it does you're just going to have to roll with it.

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Originally Posted by Xoriam

[Melee LB] Atleast not 1 shot from full hp -_-

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It's not a OHKO if you gear properly. 4k or more HP in Slaughter or you are food

This has always been the case, from 72player secure Frontline or Wolves Den queueing before.

I'd probably try PVP again if they got rid of the extra skills.

Removing GC restrictions is a good thing but it wouldn't make me any more interested in PVP then I am right now.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

What you who love pvp don't seem to understand is that you're a vocal minority. You represent a small population of players. For every 500~1000 players there's only a handful that enjoy pvp enough to care. This is what you're up against. The problem isn't getting them to love pvp as you do, that will never happen. The problem is giving them a reason to even try, something that has an impact on their non-pvp time. That something doesn't exist right now and until it does you're just going to have to roll with it.

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This is a Themepark MMO.

I'd venture to say that the game has practically as few (or similarly few) people interested in:

1) raiding, 2) glamour, 3) chocobo racing, 4) main story, 5) social-factor, 6) crafting/gathering, 7) collecting, 8) housing, 9) triple triad & so forth.

There IS plenty of interest in PVP by enough players to merit it's continued development & support; that something DOES EXIST, you just don't see it.

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Originally Posted by PlumpyMcduff

Truly, no offense meant.

But this' a prime example of why not to post a PVP discussion in General Discussion.

This person has no legitimate interest in PVP if they can't be bothered to learn a small handful of new abilities.

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No offense? Really? What you chose to respond to me with says otherwise. You are making assumptions about my interest in something when you don't even know me.

Yes, I am lazy. Do I have no legitimate interest in PVP? Wrong. I do. I actually played WoW on PVP servers and did nothing but PVP for fun.

Do I like FFXIV PVP? Not really, I did it a lot at first, but seriously it's just too many damn buttons. I don't like the extra abilities. It's my opinion on the PVP system. So no, my post is not this 'prime example' stuff you keep spewing, it was just me, posting my opinion in a thread about getting more people to PVP.

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Originally Posted by Miste

No offense? Really? What you chose to respond to me with says otherwise. You are making assumptions about my interest in something when you don't even know me.

Yes, I am lazy. Do I have no legitimate interest in PVP? Wrong. I do. I actually played WoW on PVP servers and did nothing but PVP for fun.

Do I like FFXIV PVP? Not really, I did it a lot at first, but seriously it's just too many damn buttons. I don't like the extra abilities. It's my opinion on the PVP system. So no, my post is not this 'prime example' stuff you keep spewing, it was just me, posting my opinion in a thread about getting more people to PVP.

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I revised it before you made this response because I realized the error in my thinking. I do apologize, I realized I overspake.

That's a fair point. Although, your language does seem to insinuate that you could care less if you can't be bothered to learn a very few extra keys, you know? Or at least, it's easy to draw that conclusion (still, my mistake though).

You even said that you 'don't mind pvp,' doesn't feel like a whole lot of interest, if any at all. I was incorrect in saying you had no legitimate interest whatsoever though, and for that I do apologize.

It's great to hear that you do like PVP in general, just that the ability-bloat dissuades you in a sense; that's good feedback.

The context of my point, however, was primarily that GD isn't the place to ask if 'people would pvp more if...'

People who don't PVP won't PVP more if; they just... don't PVP.

I will say this though, you don't have to be so rude about my mistake, give me a chance geez... "...you keep spewing."

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Originally Posted by PlumpyMcduff

I revised it before you made this response because I realized the error in my thinking. I do apologize, I realized I overspake.

That's a fair point. Still though, your language does seem to insinuate that you could care less if you can't be bothered to learn a very few extra keys, you know?

You even said that you 'don't mind pvp,' doesn't feel like a whole lot of interest. I was incorrect in saying you had no legitimate interest whatsoever though, and for that I do apologize.

I will say this though, you don't have to be so rude about my mistake, give me a chance geez... "...you keep spewing."

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The don't mind thing was a bit misleading, I meant that towards the FFXIV PVP system only, as in "it's alright as it is now but...."

Also its not just a few extra keys, I play FFXIV with a controller so no the extra abilities are more annoying to work in. I could do it but ugh, just too many buttons.

The rudeness was because of the overstepping, therefore rude, reply you made to me. You apologized and fixed it, so therefore sorry for responding to you in such a way. Just got irritated cause I was just sharing my opinion didn't expect someone to repond like you had.

Plumpy does make a valid point.. Some people are simply uninterested in PvP. I see that more in FF14 than any other MMO I played because FF14 has such notoriously bad PvP.

When my friend pulled me into this game, knowing him, I told him he's not going to last very long after hitting lv 50 because I know he's the kind of guy that'll get straight into PvP and never come out.. Well, it happened. He hit lv 50, finished Ultima's bane, tried to PvP then realized this game wasn't for him..

Most of the players have zero interest in PvP, that's evident by looking at how few people have the "puppy" title that you get for winning or losing a pvp match. just 1 match and still, most people don't have the title.

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Originally Posted by PlumpyMcduff

This is a Themepark MMO.

I'd venture to say that the game has practically as few (or similarly few) people interested in:

1) raiding, 2) glamour, 3) chocobo racing, 4) main story, 5) social-factor, 6) crafting/gathering, 7) collecting, 8) housing, 9) triple triad & so forth.

There IS plenty of interest in PVP by enough players to merit it's continued development & support; that something DOES EXIST, you just don't see it.

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Crafting, a niche interest? Nonsense! I enjoy crafting, therefore CLEARLY it must be an activity that everyone loves!

PvP on the other hand, since it doesn't interest me, obviously no one enjoys it at all. Foolish SE, adding something that no one could possibly have any interest in!

To sum up, me. And, for the record, me. And in case anyone missed the important part of all this... ME.

And, because this is the Internet and satire is easily misinterpreted, yes, this was satire.

If it was fixed a while ago, then yeah, I'd still be interested in PVP. But nowadays my interest in the game until the expansion is pretty low as it is, it's just a bit too late for me. If they implemented it with a 3.0 change then I might pick it up again, but so far it's just a little too late for me.

Would you PvP more if...



nope

If the queues weren't so obnoxiously long, I'd do it more. But I don't feel like waiting 20-40 min just to lose.

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Originally Posted by Gillionaire

Plumpy does make a valid point.. Some people are simply uninterested in PvP. I see that more in FF14 than any other MMO I played because FF14 has such notoriously bad PvP.

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Yeah, it probably should have been in the pvp forum given that it was a call to people who have or currently do pvp rather than those who havent.

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Most of the players have zero interest in PvP, that's evident by looking at how few people have the "puppy" title that you get for winning or losing a pvp match. just 1 match and still, most people don't have the title.

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Holy crap! I love titles. I'll need to do that tonight.

I personally do not pvp in games simply because it requires specific gear and weapons and in some cases pvp zone only skills. drop all that and simply have two or more of groups going against each other using regular class skills and I'd love to give it a go.

No special gear means no grossly overpowered opponents who who win just because of it. Even playing field. That's what will get more interest.

Something to consider- Frontlines PVP is currently the only instanced multiplayer content in the game where we don't have the need for people to queue and commence with a preset Tank/Healer/DPS ratio. Whereas supply & demand for players in tank/healer roles has much to do with wait times for running dungeons and often having to choose the class you want to play based on how much time you are willing to spend waiting in line to play the game using that class- we finally have something where that isn't a factor, and as soon as a sufficient number of people have queued up that's all that's needed for the game mode to commence. When 24 people or 72 people register, a match with that many players would be able to begin. Except no, it doesn't work this way because for an artificially imposed reason, the GC restriction. Whereas other content has a need for the Tank/Healer/DPS balance to be able to proceed successfully, that type of supply/demand has NOTHING to do with how queueing for Frontline works, and so far that's been fine... people can change class in instance and rebalance their party, I do it all the time.

But what a gigantic waste that we have these unnecessary roadblocks for the one thing where we'd be fine without them. Reminds me of a club that opened downtown a few years back, they'd keep a long line of people outside so it would fit a certain kind of look, the one time I went there I was inside with a couple of friends with the club mainly empty inside, while the rest of our friends and plenty of other people were kept waiting outside. They were anxious to get in, we were bored waiting on them, all because of a decision someone at the top made that there always needs to be a line because that was more important than the experience of the customers themselves. Guess what, that club didn't stay open for very long.

Yes, drop the GC requirement for better queues for the small group that do enjoy the content. I doubt this one change would be that hard to implement.

I posted this in the PVP Forum which I think is very pertinent to this topic... would love if y'all would read & provide feedback (in that thread though as we should migrate this discussion thatta' way)...

In fact, SE Dev, could you please migrate this thread to the appropriate PVP Forum & visit us over there today? Please & thank you!


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...respond-please


A few ideas:


A GC-Unrestricted "fill queue" (random GC assignment, enables friends of differing GC's to ally together finally).


Change PVP Roulette to include Bonus PVP Exp./Wolf Marks.


Remove queue-based 72man Slaughter (all it does it cause the client to delay to begin a match in hopes of filling a 72man instead of multiple 24mans; 72man Slaughter could still occur in a 'guaranteed format,' outlined below).


Have, at minimum, one virtually guaranteed 24-72man Frontlines occur every hour of the day (possibly, alternating between Secure/Slaughter).

For even odds & equitability, these matches could be up to Light Party queue only & assign a random GC to each entrant/Light Party group.

It could work like Chocobo Racing, you'd opt-in & then it'd put you in regardless of player count once the timer expired. Latecomers could join-in up to a certain time into the match.

If 100 players opted-in, both a 72man & a 24man would start on time.


The remaining 4 players would be put on a hold (this' where the "virtual" comes in) until enough additional players opted-in, in which another 24man would begin.

Heck, it could be designed such that if that queue were taking too long, a prompt could appear on-screen notifying players that enough have queued to fill a Wolve's Den bout instead & if they'd rather like to participate in that in place of continuing to wait.

Client could even show how many active, guaranteed Frontlines are taking place & how many have queued for the pending one... so those 4 have a way of telling if it's just not going to happen for them right then (current FL queues should show this anyway, they should show how many are queued up for each individual GC even).


Lastly, SE should design a rectangular 8v8 map to help combat this rare scenario too.

Besides, it'd be fun, could do like Capture the Flag or something.


Also, revivify Wolve's Den...

Make Leaderboards & have Arena Seasons with special PVP armor/weapon rewards or something.

Have separate Leaderboards/Rankings for Solo Queue & Light Party Premades.

And do a Daily Roulette: Wolve's Den (solo) & Wolve's Den (light party) for bonus PVP Exp & Wolf Mark's.


NOTE TO SE REGARDING FFXIV'S PVP:

I know you guys get a lot of crap from people regarding its design... but I tell you, haters gon hate. I play a ton of competitive PVP games & have PVPed competitively in nigh every MMO in existence.

Yes, I did WoW PVP religiously for a while... and I mostly loathed it for reasons you guys legitimately solved. You've implemented things I've been asking for in other MMO PVP environments for ages.

PVP-Specific Actions & Traits as well as PVP-Specific Balance Changes chief among them. You guys are on the right track with this machine, you've just handled the queue's & restrictions wrong.

Your current system shoots PVP in the foot by making it unfriendly for play-with-friends (e.g. GC Restriction) & by severely hurting queue times by things like GC Restriction & multiple formats too soon.

I'm not saying remove GC Restriction anymore, but ease it up... let people who don't care about GC-centric PVP fill the ranks unrestricted or ally with their friends of differing GC's somehow.

There's merit to GC loyalty & fighting under your GC banner, so keep it sure... but allow those who could care less to have their positive social experience aligning with friends of differing GC's in Frontlines.

Lastly, it's utterly imperative that you untie PVP Rank from GC's, that you use some of the added character data from 3.0 to save PVP Loadouts by Job, & that you add a "Swap Alliance" Feature for PVP (so if one Alliance has 4 Healers but another has 0, 2 Healers can trade-out).

Each of these things highly dissuade people from switching Jobs in PVP which can be hugely detrimental (no healer alliances) & deincentivize people to switch GC's in a negative way (I hate pirates but my friends love them, just because I don't want to be Maelstrom or they do want to be Maelstrom, I shouldn't be locked from Frontlining with them... it's just silly, let us have the GC we want & still Frontlines alongside our friends of differing GC's).

I love you SE & please don't take this the wrong way, I mean this with all my love for the developers & for the game--but your stubbornness with regards to GC Restriction is killing PVP. I say this with utmost passion for the PVP you've implemented (I honestly love it, so much so that this must be said to you, because it's dying a slow death).

So please, for the love of PVP, reconsider how you're handling this.

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Originally Posted by Miste

The rudeness was because of the overstepping, therefore rude, reply you made to me. You apologized and fixed it, so therefore sorry for responding to you in such a way. Just got irritated cause I was just sharing my opinion didn't expect someone to repsond like you had.

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Thank you for your apology as well! We're on good terms :) appreciate you & your useful critique :) bygones are now bygones <3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_Earth:_Zero

Make the game like THIS! AN ACTUAL TEAM EFFORT GAME!
I miss this game so much! The best PvP I have ever played and I am not a PvP person.
As it stands; frontlines is nothing but a stupid zerg fest. Get a BLM/SMN sleep everyone LB, and ta-da, you win!
It was fun when it was first released but since it's a zerg for all, nah...Only a select people
go back to manor's and do what they need to do, but everyone else just tries to kill a PLD all day...It's not fun.
Also, the time waiting = the actual game play ain't worth it...the rounds or what? Give or take 10mins for the hour wait?

Nothing they could do would really draw me to pvp, since I don't enjoy pvp in general.

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Originally Posted by PlumpyMcduff

In fact, SE Dev, could you please migrate this thread to the appropriate PVP Forum & visit us over there today? Please & thank you!

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I made this thread here for a reason. The people whose opinion i really want to see are the ones who gave up/ don't PvP at all. The people who don't go to the PvP forums.

Its interesting to see some of the replies. A lot of people just aren't interested in it which is cool.

If the majority here say there's nothing SE could do to participate in PvP, then I respect that. But if the general consensus is that they tried it, it was too broken, and they quit? Then I really hope the majority of people can be more vocal about it here. That would make SE at least realize its something the people want.

Something they do in AION is put instance PVP on a timer, you can queue at a certain time, and only during that time period.
You're sure to enter that way without waiting forever.
If they did it say 1 time per hour like stated before, I'm sure the whole queue problem would be slightly alieviated.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

I personally do not pvp in games simply because it requires specific gear and weapons and in some cases pvp zone only skills. drop all that and simply have two or more of groups going against each other using regular class skills and I'd love to give it a go.

No special gear means no grossly overpowered opponents who who win just because of it. Even playing field. That's what will get more interest.

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This is actually one of the things SE got right when they came out with Frontlines (and if there was nothing people liked about it, we wouldn't have so many threads from people trying to get the few things that are so bad they overshadow all the good ones changed). FL is level synced to i80 and that puts us all on common footing. While there's gear that's 'bis' for FL, how someone plays matters so much more, than whether a piece of gear has DET or Spell Speed for example. Some i80 pieces from CT are even as good as, or better than, i120+ gear. The Morale boost only affects i70 PVP equipment to synch it up to i80 in FL which means someone can gear a lot of jobs for FL quickly with that set (which sells at discount store prices now).

As for PVP actions, the good thing is now they're all unlocked to start with and can simply be upgraded a bit. I'm a controller user so crossbar space is at a premium, and for that reason (and so I wouldn't have to remember which bar/button to swap to) I macro'd a lot of my PVP actions to go with the PVE equivalent, or with ones that synergize well, and that way it's intuitive where to find them. Here's one I wrote for Equanimity, which is an Instant cast skill like Surecast except it applies to spells cast during like a 15 second or so window:

/ac "Equanimity" <me>
/ac "Surecast" <me>

What that does is slot them in the same place, and if Equanimity is available, it uses that, if not, it uses Surecast. Which is the same priority I'd assign to using the skills if I couldn't macro them like this anyway. I have seperate PVP vs. PVE crossbars btw so my character isn't trying to use PVP skills in PVE and failing.

BTW I did not like PVP before I started Frontlines when it came out last summer.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

I personally do not pvp in games simply because it requires specific gear and weapons and in some cases pvp zone only skills. drop all that and simply have two or more of groups going against each other using regular class skills and I'd love to give it a go.

No special gear means no grossly overpowered opponents who who win just because of it. Even playing field. That's what will get more interest.

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What? You don't need to special gear for anything. Wolve's Den is where Morale plays a huge factor and all. But seeing most people play Slaughter/Secure, they abolished that to make the game fair. Everyone caps at i80. You can go in with your top notch gear and have at it. Again, the skills in PVP are not -mandatory- to use, they only -help-. You don't -need- to learn them. You'll do just fine without them. At that point it comes down to knowing when to go in and when to back off.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

What? You don't need to special gear for anything. Wolve's Den is where Morale plays a huge factor and all. But seeing most people play Slaughter/Secure, they abolished that to make the game fair. Everyone caps at i80. You can go in with your top notch gear and have at it. Again, the skills in PVP are not -mandatory- to use, they only -help-. You don't -need- to learn them. You'll do just fine without them. At that point it comes down to knowing when to go in and when to back off.

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pvp gear is pretty useless even in wolve's den even tbh.