Healer Buffs

I am really starting to utterly despise speed runners for this reason as well as others. It was annoying enough on my own healer, but today I had to watch it happen to my best friend who had JUST HIT 50! He only had his AF gear and we were in copper bell hard. Tank runs off without buffs.(thank god for that lift or else my friend would have never had time)..proceeds to pull nearly the whole dungeon, and of course dies cause my poor friend cannot keep up. Then tank FINALLY looks at his gear, and INSULTS him for not having better gear. Then because my friend and the other dps did not know the mechanics (i did not have time to type it before tank rushed in) we wiped to first boss. Tank then yells at us for how we should know more with our gear. He then asks to be vote kicked cause he cant bear to be with us anymore.

This kind of thing drives me insane, it is a GAME! We are supposed to have FUN!. When did having the best gear and going the fastest override the fun and being a decent human being? Plus...in a lot of cases these failed "speed runs" make the dungeon take even longer then it would have the normal way. SMH...I just will never understand it.

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Originally Posted by dayspring83

A lot of the replies I've been getting from people lately is "I'm in a rush" or "just do it while I pull".

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Guess they just really want to get their healer killed if they expect you to buff while they pull, since you risk pulling aggro with some buffs if you're casting them as they pull lol. Seriously, if they don't wanna wait for the buff, it's really their loss, tho generally I try to get it on asap when I can. I think too, a lot of people really have no clue just how much help those starter buffs can be when it comes to taking damage, especially Protect from a white mage.

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Originally Posted by Selli

Because when the tank is properly buffed that gives the healer more time to DPS. If the tank is losing HP as soon as he's done pulling and the healer needs to spam heal him are they going to have time to DPS?

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So true, I frequently toss out SS (both tank and dps as needed) and Eye for an Eye on the tank so that as sch I have a bit more time to toss out my dots before I return to healing. As for SS, I actually have more of a tendency to cast it on the dps than the tank at times, if I have a lull in healing, since the SS disappears almost instantly on the tank, but not usually quite so quickly on the dps. If it saves me a heal or two, and allows me to toss out some dots at the same time, the SS is worth it sometimes imo. I also tend to try to cast SS on someone if they have raise weakness during a fight, and if the fight isn't too hectic atm, for that extra damage prevention buffer.

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Originally Posted by KizunaBlade

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Oh gosh, that's horrible. D: Is your friend okay? I had something similar happen to an FC mate (but it was AK or WP, their very first 50 dungeon ever) and they got bullied so bad by the party that they just quit. Some people don't remember what it's like to be new or what their first end-game dungeon was like. It's overwhelming enough without having someone put you down just for being new.

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Originally Posted by YukariOro

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I don't play SCH much, but I know that those DoTs take forever to throw up (and then you have to Bane too! QwQ) and having both the buffs on the tank really gives you the extra time needed to get those all up and Bane'd without having to worry about wasting Atherflow stacks on Lustrates.

And Stoneskinning after a Raise is the best! I witnessed a LOLDRG live through a 1-shot simply because the SCH had stoneskinned him before the WHM could protect and he had taken a smack to the face as soon as he got up.

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Originally Posted by KizunaBlade

This kind of thing drives me insane, it is a GAME! We are supposed to have FUN!

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Some people just have no tolerance for others learning. Generally I'm pretty patient with wipes, I tend to find dying in mmos funny, so it's not often I get upset if I know everyone is trying and working to improve. I used to run a casual linkshell in XI tho and was constantly teaching and guiding newbies.

However, today my fc and I ran all 3 CTs, and we had a newbie in one. When some of my fc members nicely pointed out some people needed to do a bit better, he start raging, as if he was being singled out as the wrongdoer. He wasn't, one person not knowing something generally isn't an issue in CT. So I've seen nastiness from both sides sadly.

I really hope the friend doesn't get too upset or let it ruin the game. Some people just aren't team players so the're the ones I choose not to team up with when the rough gets going. Like you, I play for fun foremost.

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Originally Posted by Selli

And Stoneskinning after a Raise is the best! I witnessed a LOLDRG live through a 1-shot simply because the SCH had stoneskinned him before the WHM could protect and he had taken a smack to the face as soon as he got up.

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I've had the same happen when I tossed SS on the tank in t5 months back. SS is a lifesaver that is ignored all too often by most healers. I also tend to toss an Aldo on the tank too to help before I cast my dots on sch too. I think I probably rely on buffing more than most healers in this game anyhow, given how habitually I used them back in my FFXI days.

In fact, lately I've been using my whm more often than my sch for CT because I've gotten annoyed with too many white mages not tossing out the buffs and skipping SS completely at the start of fights.

Nothing I hate more than having to cast protect and SS on sch while knowing the whm's buffs are stronger but they're not casting it for whatever reason lol.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

If you're taking 30 seconds to pre-buff I wouldn't want to wait for it either.

But yeah, if they're literally just zooming off before even Protect lands on them, they can just go without it for all I care.

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Haha, yeah that's my fault. I just generalize everything that I consider to be quick as "30 seconds". In reality I start casting Stoneskin as I see the "viewing custscene" go away and then once I have everyone lithified I go hit with Protect, Adlo and Succor depending on the pull or area. So however long that takes.

I dont run on WHM often, but then it's just Quickcast > SS2 and then Protect.

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Originally Posted by Selli

I'm pretty sure OP said 30 seconds because it's less than a minute and more than 10 seconds and they probably didn't sit down and do the math because there's no need for them too.

As for how much damage a healer does? My WHM's Holy's do 800-900 each. I do 3-5 Holy's depending on my tank. So if I did 5 Holy's and they each hit for 900 each, I'd be doing 4,500 to each thing I hit on top of what the party is doing. That burst is worth it.

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I guess I brought it on myself for not calculating the exact time lol.

Plus this is also part of my point, if I can use my Aetherflow's on Energy Drain and not Lustrate, that's between 700-900 damage there.

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Originally Posted by dayspring83

I guess I brought it on myself for not calculating the exact time lol.

Plus this is also part of my point, if I can use my Aetherflow's on Energy Drain and not Lustrate, that's between 700-900 damage there.

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I think the real question is, if they don't have time to wait for the buffs, why are they playing at all, if their time is that short. 30 seconds for a buff, which can happen if the healer is waiting for someone to get out of a cut scene for example, is hardly going to massively slow down any dungeon run.

I can just imagine someone saying, "Oh wait, I can cook my lunch irl 30 seconds sooner because I skipped letting that healer buff me," lol. Seriously, sometimes people are in such a rush that they forget shaving a minute or two off a dungeon really isn't that much of a time save in the long run.

Damage done on healer can make or break a fight tho, especially if overall dps is low. My sch dps and Selene helped majorly today when I ran Chrysalis with one of my linkshells.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

If a missing stoneskin or protect at the beginning of the dungeon is causing trouble for a group and possible wipes... the REAL problem isn't the lack of healer buffs. Anything that COULD be warded off with those buffs can be healed through as well, unless we are talking about tanks who do massive pulls. The buffs are nice and should be up whenever possible, but they shouldn't make or break anything pre-endgame.

Some people just gotta go fast, and while it can be really dumb and inconsiderate, so is jumping into a dungeon and wasting several minutes "getting ready".

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Again, my fault for not specifying. This is only an issue (for me at least) when running dungeons that typically use a speed run method. And again, I used some editorial exaggeration...do buffs make or break a run? Probably not, but the damage mitigation also lessens the likelihood of me having to press the "oh shit" button too early and pull hate.

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Originally Posted by dayspring83

I guess I brought it on myself for not calculating the exact time lol.

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No, no. Don't worry about it. There's really no need for you to be so exact. 30 seconds is a reasonable number to round it to, I probably would have said 30 seconds myself. It's probably about 30 seconds in a trial with two SCH's anyway, I know casting Stoneskin on 8 people is about 22 seconds (because T9 was hell back in the day).

Though the amount of buff time between a WHM and a SCH is crazy, now that WHM's have Stoneskin II it takes them about 10 seconds to buff everyone while SCH is double that.

Bad tanks will always be a problem. It's their job to check the levels of their team and pull an appropriate number of mobs. It also helps to wait a couple of seconds to get a buff, as the less the healer needs to cure you, the easier it will be for all of you.

No, having good gear doesn't excuse you from doing your jobs properly. If you've reached a level where you can fight off hordes with ease, then you've reached a level where you understand your role in the party. Play your role first and foremost, anything else is merely a bonus.

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Originally Posted by Selli

Though the amount of buff time between a WHM and a SCH is crazy, now that WHM's have Stoneskin II it takes them about 10 seconds to buff everyone while SCH is double that.

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Less than 5 if you use Swiftcast on Stoneskin 2.

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Originally Posted by dayspring83

Am I the only one who has noticed an increase of people who are not willing to wait an extra 30 seconds for buffs at the beginning of dungeon runs?

You guys do realize that as a healer if I can buff the party with Protect, Stoneskin, Adloquium(for tanks) and Succor (everyone else) prior to a pull that this allows me to start off in Cleric Stance, throw up DoTs and DPS before I even have to start thinking about healing?

A lot of the replies I've been getting from people lately is "I'm in a rush" or "just do it while I pull".

For the people who don't want to wait that thirty seconds for pre-pull buffs, why? I'm genuinely curious at this point.

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That and the inability to use raise, I shouldn't have to shout in chat over and over to ask for a raise should I??

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Originally Posted by Sartori

That and the inability to use raise, I shouldn't have to shout in chat over and over to ask for a raise should I??

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My priority as healer is to

1) keep the tank alive
2) raise the tank if they do for some reason die
3) make sure those still up and fighting aren't also going to die, so heal them and myself til we're out of the danger zone
4) then I will raise whatever dps is dead

Shouting for a raise, especially if my swiftcast is down, isn't going to get you raised any faster if the timing isn't safe to raise you.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Less than 5 if you use Swiftcast on Stoneskin 2.

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True that. But I was talking about fully casting it (since sometimes you actually have to, unfortunately). Stoneskin II is a godsend, if they ever remove it I may cry.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Bad tanks will always be a problem. It's their job to check the levels of their team and pull an appropriate number of mobs. It also helps to wait a couple of seconds to get a buff, as the less the healer needs to cure you, the easier it will be for all of you.

No, having good gear doesn't excuse you from doing your jobs properly. If you've reached a level where you can fight off hordes with ease, then you've reached a level where you understand your role in the party. Play your role first and foremost, anything else is merely a bonus.Less than 5 if you use Swiftcast on Stoneskin 2.

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I wouldn't tag them as "bads" though...annoyingly impatient, maybe. But I'm sure people have tags for me when Im chasing them down using "angry" emotes while trying to cast Adlo lol

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

No, having good gear doesn't excuse you from doing your jobs properly.

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I main tanked in WoW on paladin, and was able to tank some dungeon fights that other tanks, in better gear, would wipe on. Good or great gear doesn't always mean someone knows their class well sadly. Had one friend that also did pally tank in WoW, come to find out when he asked me for tips, that he didn't use 99% of his Holy spells because he thought they were worthless, so he couldn't keep aggro as a result. He was always better geared on his tank than I was on my tank, but he really didn't know how to play tank unfortunately, and some people are just like that.

I must have it lucky, half the time my tank waits patiently for buffs. The other half, I buff him, then toss aldo, then e4e and.... Thats when He sits there for whatever reason and my e4e just ticks down... Lol.

Now when it comes to my tank. I swear healers I get have no idea what they are doing.(maybe because I main healer I have higher expectations) My tank is only 35. And they'll sit at the start of a dungeon and me and the dps stand there like . .. Umm can we have buffs? For almost a minute befor the healers like "oh crap sorry forgot." which I don't say anything bad. I just worry. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Sartori

That and the inability to use raise, I shouldn't have to shout in chat over and over to ask for a raise should I??

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9/10 times we see that you're down but we're making a decision to continue healing the tanks or other DPS who are near death to prevent a wipe. If I have swiftcast up, then the decision to raise you is easy but if not then I need to find a safe time/place to do it. Which leads me to...

The other 1/10...you have been repeatedly eating AOEs and I've already raised you twice...you need a timeout. =)

Different topic post for a later time though..but seriously healers need to prioritize raises with keeping the rest of the group alive. So, I wouldnt take it personally or think that the healer is ignoring you. Unless they are sitting idle between Cures, then see the 1/10 =)

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

I must have it lucky, half the time my tank waits patiently for buffs. The other half, I buff him, then toss aldo, then e4e and.... Thats when He sits there for whatever reason and my e4e just ticks down... Lol.

Now when it comes to my tank. I swear healers I get have no idea what they are doing.(maybe because I main healer I have higher expectations) My tank is only 35. And they'll sit at the start of a dungeon and me and the dps stand there like . .. Umm can we have buffs? For almost a minute befor the healers like "oh crap sorry forgot." which I don't say anything bad. I just worry. Lol.

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Lol I dont understand how they forget to buff.

I start SS as soon as I see "viewing cutscene" go away. It's like a reflex at this point. Next time tell them to put the joint down in between runs haha

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Originally Posted by dayspring83

Lol I dont understand how they forget to buff.

I start SS as soon as I see "viewing cutscene" go away. It's like a reflex at this point. Next time tell them to put the joint down in between runs haha

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I've seen them do it. Not sure why, I'm the kind that nearly constantly is refreshing buffs at every boss myself lol.

Saw a pretty new sch in CT, the first one, earlier this week. Kept saying to my fc members, "Why the heck are they constantly casting Whispering Wind, especially when everyone is at full health?" Got a good laugh at that. Inexperienced healers do weird things sometimes, to compensate for messing up and stuff I've found lol.

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Originally Posted by dayspring83

I wouldn't tag them as "bads" though...annoyingly impatient, maybe. But I'm sure people have tags for me when Im chasing them down using "angry" emotes while trying to cast Adlo lol

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If they dead due to running like that, I will point them to Edda cutscene on wiki/net where Avere dead due to his own (although sadly Edda take the beating there). A bit funny when SE had been hinted this long before this problem arise.

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Originally Posted by dayspring83

The other 1/10...you have been repeatedly eating AOEs and I've already raised you twice...you need a timeout. =)

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Had this happen with a tank in my WoD alliance recently. He insisted on main tanking but kept getting hit with aoe and debuffs, making it tough to heal him. Finally ended up letting him die on the last boss so that one of the other tanks could take over, he was that tough to heal. I don't do that very often tho.

I don't descriminate tho, first person I let die like that was in XI, and they were a whm. I was on red mage at the time, and used to main healing on rdm. The whm refused to put SS up on himself and kept taking aggro, making me rush to heal him. His excuse, "SS is a waste of mp." (SS was way more important and vital in XI) So I stopped wasting my mp on healing him, he died, and I took over main healing. The tank at the time couldn't stop laughing at what I did and we became good friends. =)

If you aren't patient enough to wait 10 seconds for Protes + SS, you probably shouldn't play a MMORPG. However, I've met quite a few healers who are too lazy to precast Adlo/SS before a pull.

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Originally Posted by dayspring83

Lol I dont understand how they forget to buff.

I start SS as soon as I see "viewing cutscene" go away. It's like a reflex at this point. Next time tell them to put the joint down in between runs haha

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Yeah. Sometimes I'll sir and start preparing casting over a few times till the barrier pops and I'll let it finish. Lol.

I just swiftcast protect in combat if the tank just goes gung ho and engages.
No big deal lol thats y we have swiftcast.
Also if u have the habit of "save swiftcast only for raises" then idk maybe u should take a moment and think about why using swiftcast with other abilities work.

As long as they don't moan for my weak SCH Protect after the fact when it inevitably misses them, I don't care all that much. What I do care about however is tanks pulling when there's 3 seconds remaining on Adlo. DUDE, IT'S NOT A COUNTDOWN OK.

This is gonna sound dumb, but if i level up scholar can i get both Adlo and Succor on my WHM?

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Originally Posted by Bruiser_Cruiser

This is gonna sound dumb, but if i level up scholar can i get both Adlo and Succor on my WHM?

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No. First off only certain abilities are cross-class. You can cross-class Surecast, Blizzard II and Swiftcast from THM, and/or Ruin, Physick, Virus and Eye for an Eye from ACN. Second, as you may have noticed, I used THM and ACN, and not BLM and SCH. That's because you can only cross-class class abilities, not job abilities.

I WHM and my SSII/Prot macro is:
/ac Stoneskin II <wait.1>
/ac Protect <t>
/wait 5 (or 4 or 6, whatever Prot wait time is, I'm at work lol)
/ac Protect <mo>
/ac Protect <t>

When I get into anything I spam my macro until it goes off. If they run away, that's on them.

Healer is the primary role I play in FFXIV, and I've never taken issue with this. I just roll with it. If the tank dies within the first 15 seconds of a trash pull/boss fight before full buffs can be applied, no buff is going to fix the fact that there's something severely wrong with the tank (or the game mechanics).

If you try to min/max your DPS as a healer in a random DF group... ...you're gonna have a bad time.

Why do people have to wait at all? Protect as soon as you get out of the cutscene, Swiftcast Stoneskin II when the barrier drops, and then recast Protect targeted on the tank if they missed it earlier. You can use Adloq/Stoneskin when the tank is running and catch up with Sprint.

Since I have started tanking its honestly that I forget about them. :/

Blame FFXIV game design. Nobody likes grinding and this game has more grinding in it than a blacksmiths shop. I mean seriously people just grind grind grind grind grind grind until every ounce of human decency and soul is sucked out of them. They move like machines at this point, devoid of all humanity trying to reach that seemingly endless goal.

I'm not justifying bad mannerism don't get me wrong but it is incredibly easy to become this way when you've been at a grind far too long. Maybe Japanese or Korean gamers can maintain their decency to a degree while in the midst of a really repetitive grindfest but meh... many NA gamers at least start to see their time waste add up from all the grinding and they start to get horribly impatient and rather bad tempered as a result of it.

I very much dislike it if ppl just charge in without waiting me to cast my buffs.

If you let me cast my protect + (swiftcast)stoneskin II, I most likely have the extra time to help with dps. Not saying I don't have the time to help if I have to buff you during the fight but... Ya know...

I just leave them without those buffs if they just charge in. I don't like chasing after people.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Why do people have to wait at all? Protect as soon as you get out of the cutscene, Swiftcast Stoneskin II when the barrier drops, and then recast Protect targeted on the tank if they missed it earlier. You can use Adloq/Stoneskin when the tank is running and catch up with Sprint.

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The argument applies when it's at a low level dungeon or when people play SCH.

Whenever a tank runs off without buffs, I simply switch to Cleric Stance and DPS to my heart's content until said tank dies. When I am questioned/bitched at, I calmly reply with, "Oh I'm sorry. I figured you wanted me to be a DPS since you couldn't wait 7 seconds for me to be a healer."

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Originally Posted by Launched

Why do people have to wait at all? Protect as soon as you get out of the cutscene, Swiftcast Stoneskin II when the barrier drops, and then recast Protect targeted on the tank if they missed it earlier. You can use Adloq/Stoneskin when the tank is running and catch up with Sprint.

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That's just as bad as attacking the boss/mob before the tank is able to get or maintain hate.

When I hit my buff macro, it posts 'hold still, you hyperactive little bastards!' In party chat. Usually people are amused enough to wait for SS and protect to finish casting after that.