When is summoner getting ramuh/shiva/levi?

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Originally Posted by Kuurei

It actually isn't, pets in EQ1 got pretty damn massive + the height bolstering spells worked on them so they ended up being like 2~3 stories high at times. EQ2 still has a lot of larger pets, if you count charmed animals/metamorphasis wands.

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Ramuh in FFXIV was practically the size of a mountain. Considerably larger than your examples. The way he makes the ground change for vast distances also wouldn't work very well in an MMO.

Lastly, we don't have larger Egi solely because of ps3 limitations. Yeah, I said it. They went and locked it away with lore reasons as well and now it will never change.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Lastly, we don't have larger Egi solely because of ps3 limitations. Yeah, I said it. They went and locked it away with lore reasons as well and now it will never change.

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Then why can we have bigger, and better looking, summons on ffxi, which is running know ps2... Which has more limitations...?

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

Then why can we have bigger, and better looking, summons on ffxi, which is running know ps2... Which has more limitations...?

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Runs pc/ps2/xbox

So wouldn't ps2 be holding it back? But we still have

Titan - http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...tan_(FFXI).png

Garuda(with guest appearance from shiva in the back ground) - http://th02.deviantart.net/fs9/PRE/i...phineJekyl.jpg

And Ifrit http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/att...1&d=1083611065

LOl you guys, "I dont like summoner, so the devs need to totally rework it!!!!" stop crying. I do like summoner, and while the egis could look a little better (more like the primals and not like a rock or pteradactyl). It's fine the way it is. Its a DoT dps, with a pet. The only thing really wrong with summoner is their single target dps isnt great. Ive seen 1150 dps in aoe situations with RagingStrikes+Bane.

Summoner is fine. If you dont like it dont play it. Even if the devs did overhaul it, it would just piss off the existing summoners.

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

Then why can we have bigger, and better looking, summons on ffxi, which is running know ps2... Which has more limitations...?

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Because that statement is made in complete ignorance of the complexities. How many more models are routinely displayed on screen at once? What level of complexity are those models? What level performance is expected when doing so? How much space does the UI take? Etc.

If the ps3 was focused on one task it could make a Ramuh that looked photo-realistic, but it would be without anything else going on in the game. It's all the things going on at once that determine how limited you are. The ps3 has only 256mb of memory after all. Pointing out the ps2 had larger summons literally doesn't mean anything at all to this game or the ps3's limitations. In many ways the graphics of the ps2 era were simpler and that helped greatly. As was the menu driven interface. You have to take in the big picture. Not just a single feature. There was an overall jump in fidelity and therefore memory usage that came with the ps3 version over the ps2 version. That requires more memory.

Egis are small because the game revolves around dodging the warning zones on the ground. Imagine doing Crystal Tower with a bunch of actual sized Titans covering your screen. Not to mention their spell graphics/animations as well. Better yet, imagine doing Titan Extreme with multiple summoners in your group. :\ Not that I don't understand what it is people expected and continue to want for the SMN job. I'd say at least wait and see what happens in Heavensward though.

How about Summoner's steal Iceheart's little trick for their LB3? Of course, since we don't have piles of crystals lying around, whatever energy the LB gauge represents only let's us hold the form long enough for one good attack.

Would make SMN's seem a bit more epic, for sure.

They already said we would be getting those 3. Now if only that it would be very boring. All others jobs are getting 4+ new skills to use as part of their new arsenal, while we might just be stuck with the new "best" summon. I think a pet switch skill mechanic could add a lot to SMN, we need more stuff to diferenciate ourself from just arcanists.

It is funny we didnt get bigger summons so they could keep their "tough and too powerful image", but just look at what has this image become on Primal Hard Mode runs...

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

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http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nKDQruazse8/maxresdefault.jpg

I dunno, I've seen full 18man summoner alliances in XI, no problems for ps2, having all that on the screen.
Could see the ground pretty well to.


Don't get me wrong. I like summoner now also, as I said I was going to main it. Till everyone got on the "you have to use... Or your no good"

But I wouldn't mind them making it more XI styled.

It can be done. They are just making excuses. Anyone Who believes the ps3 causes these limitations has no idea what they are talking about. The ps3 has dulled down graphics. Already, the bigger egi styles would just be dulled down. I mean seriously. If the ps2 and XI summons can look that much better there's no reason the ps3 can't at least match it.

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

Egis are small because the game revolves around dodging the warning zones on the ground. Imagine doing Crystal Tower with a bunch of actual sized Titans covering your screen. Not to mention their spell graphics/animations as well. Better yet, imagine doing Titan Extreme with multiple summoners in your group. :\ Not that I don't understand what it is people expected and continue to want for the SMN job. I'd say at least wait and see what happens in Heavensward though.

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http://i1.2pcdn.com/node14/image/art...i4fwx4qa1u.gif

I wish summoner could have stances as well. It would be nice if all your skills changed based on what summon you had at your side by that time. And since summoner is all about DoTs and status ailments, we could also use the Dark-Type spells. This could make the Summoner a supportive DPS.

I like SMN but personally I don't feel like a Summoner. I feel like a Tamer with a digimon to fight for/with me.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

http://i1.2pcdn.com/node14/image/art...i4fwx4qa1u.gif

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Pretty much, lol. Thank God you can't ride those in CT ;P

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Lastly, we don't have larger Egi solely because of ps3 limitations. Yeah, I said it. They went and locked it away with lore reasons as well and now it will never change.

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sorry, but you are wrong. hardware limitations have nothing to do with it. it honestly doesn't even make sense for every player to be able to summon the same primal. why should 100 different people be able to summon the same primal? even a being of that kind of power would have trouble splitting its conscious up that much. it seriously doesn't make sense. being able to only summon an egi of a primal makes like 100x more sense. not as cool, but much more sensible.

i see you have actually played ACN/SMN quest-line. you should be able to understand why only an egi makes more sense then the being itself.

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

sorry, but you are wrong. hardware limitations have nothing to do with it. it honestly doesn't even make sense for every player to be able to summon the same primal. why should 100 different people be able to summon the same primal? even a being of that kind of power would have trouble splitting its conscious up that much. it seriously doesn't make sense. being able to only summon an egi of a primal makes like 100x more sense. not as cool, but much more sensible.

i see you have actually played ACN/SMN quest-line. you should be able to understand why only an egi makes more sense then the being itself.

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You're more concerned with the meta-game/lore reasons. There is a direct memory limitation that you really need to play more attention to. The lore reasons are an explanation in game to ultimately explain away why devs didn't do it in the first place. It, however, isn't the reason they did that in the first place or the sole reason. The 256mb memory limitation on the ps3 is very very real. There is a reason players and npcs animate like a slide show on the ps3. There is a reason you can barely load anyone in Revenant's toll. The system is straining. Summons any bigger than we get now would be a technical hurdle that might literally be impassible on the ps3.

Try to remember that games must first be designed on hardware and work on that hardware. The lore comes secondary and is often affected directly by those hardware limits and system capabilities.

I'm not saying the lore stuff you cited isn't relevant. I'm just saying it's a by-product of the hardware limit.

IMHO the egis are "small" because we simply can't have huge screen blocking pets running around.

It's not like they can't scale the size of the egis up - same model and textures.

Big summons will probably only be possible for LB. However I wouldn't expect too much of the detail even then - the current caster LB "Meteor" is quite blocky.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Ifrit is perfectly acceptable in several fights, has been for a while now.

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From what I've seen, Ifrit is better on trash mobs than Garuda is too. Garuda for bosses of course.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

From what I've seen, Ifrit is better on trash mobs than Garuda is too. Garuda for bosses of course.

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nope. Ifrit is for short fights (better dps) and garuda for longer fights (better MP management due to contagion). That's the only real difference between the 2.

Well, maybe Ifrit tends to die more against bosses' AoEs :p

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

snip.

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That's still false. There's no way that ps2 with XI can have great looking summons and ps3 XIV can't. Please do explain how the ps2 is better than the ps3?

Even if they took the XI summons and put them in XIV I'm sure a lot of people would be more happy.

They could easily make bigger models. An dour just being ignorant to the fact and letting them bs you into what they want you to think.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

IMHO the egis are "small" because we simply can't have huge screen blocking pets running around.

It's not like they can't scale the size of the egis up - same model and textures.

Big summons will probably only be possible for LB. However I wouldn't expect too much of the detail even then - the current caster LB "Meteor" is quite blocky.

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Look at my pictures, even in XI they weren't "screen blocking" they were nice sized lol.

I don't understand why they won't even scale them up a. Bit... And stop making garuda look like a booger, but that's another story.

Answering only the original post:

The devs mentioned this in a previous letter stating that they want to add the 3 new egis, but if they did it wouldn't be until the expansion. That being said, with the expansion we get 10 more levels which means at least 2 new job skills per job, assuming they follow the old trend of every 5 levels, and additional class skills as well.

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

Look at my pictures, even in XI they weren't "screen blocking" they were nice sized lol.

I don't understand why they won't even scale them up a. Bit... And stop making garuda look like a booger, but that's another story.

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Never played FFXI, but from screenshots they seem reasonably sized.

Just pointing out that it's not due to technical limitations that the egis are small and it's more a matter of ergonomics.

On the same note, "reasonable sized" is a pretty subjective thing. The current FFXIV team probably felt that the Egi's current models are "reasonably sized".

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

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i completely understand how hardware limitations work, and what they are for the PS3. i don't think you understand that it makes absolutely no sense to actually be able to summon the primal themselves. it is fine in a single player game, but would be totally ridiculous in an online game. i can't even begin to comprehend as of to why they allowed players to do such a thing in FFXI. there is simply no logic to it.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

http://i1.2pcdn.com/node14/image/art...i4fwx4qa1u.gif

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Covering 4/5th the screen with chocobos wasn't enough. That one just had go flailing into the camera.

lmao @ that guy jumping off of the chocobo. he reminds me of the way Mario dies in his video games. the chocobo could be Yoshi :P lols... just that one character jumping off like that makes this GIF several times funnier. xD

but it seems to be out of sequence, or maybe some time was edited out. this seems to be a very well made GIF. however, i know nothing.

First, this is an MMO so you can't have cinematic Summons like Ramuh FFXV or Ifrit Crisis Core. Sorry, move on.

Second, Egi were designed as to not interfere with other player abilities to see enemy attacks and gimmicks. Also the devs also wanted to maintain the purity of power in the primals appearance, kind of hard to have an Ifrit primal the size of a lalafel and not find it laughable. It isn't because of any limits of the system.

FYI OP: Ramuh and Shiva have been mentioned as future Egis but not Leviathan.

Leviathan as egi could add: poison, slow debuff, silence, grant water shield to party members that absorb x amount of damage
Ramuh could add: enthunder, shock spikes that have a percentage to paralyze trash mobs and deal additional damage, AOE thunder DOT,
Shiva could add: frost DOT, ice spikes, attack down debuff on trash mobs, piercing or slashing resistance down for 10 seconds
Ifrit could get additional: attack up for party member for 15 seconds every 2 minutes
Garuda could get: hastega for 30 seconds every 2 mnts
Titan could get: earthen armor - absorb certain amount of damage mitigation within 30 seconds evert 3 minutes.

Basically bringing some of FFXI elements to the mix.

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

i don't think you understand that it makes absolutely no sense to actually be able to summon the primal themselves. it is fine in a single player game, but would be totally ridiculous in an online game.

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I was never saying this...even earlier pointed out to someone else that they can't be that big in an mmo. Even still FFXI's Summoners were indeed larger which is why I was pointing out the ps3 limitations might be more strict than what the ps2 was working with causing the Egi's we got to be more of a compromise with system performance. Even with the lore they could have gone with a different look that was larger than what we got and still have considered it to be a fraction of the primal's true power. Much the same way that Garuda Story Mode looks identical to Garuda Ex despite the clear difference in power. What they went with was an aesthetic choice on their part, and they deliberately kept them smaller and deformed.

Since XI was able to summons bigger I don't think having them at least that big failed to work in an MMO. It just might not be possible in XIV. Not yet anyway.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

FYI OP: Ramuh and Shiva have been mentioned as future Egis but not Leviathan.

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that's Ramuh and levabeetus, not shiva. Shiva was not in the discussions back when they told about it because shiva wasn't even a thing when they discussed this. (right after Ramuh's release)

to the OP asking about the egi's the new egi's will be apart of the summons new skills with 3.0 Ramuh and leviathan and shiva were conformed (as said by yoshi-p as leviathan some old guy and a cold one), as for people complaining about the egi's it had nothing to do with system limitation or hardwere limitations it was a deign choice, int he art of eorzea it says in there (as well as yoshi quite a few times during old live letters) stated that having the primal follow you , slough would make you feel more powerful, would demean the meaning behind the summons, so instead they went with egi's stating lore wise that it was only a fraction of the primals power was to make the actual primal feel much more powerful,

this way the iconic looks could be saved for boss battles, and the more simpler egi's could be used for summoners,

its not about hard were or software this was just a conscious design idea.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Even with the lore they could have gone with a different look that was larger than what we got and still have considered it to be a fraction of the primal's true power. Much the same way that Garuda Story Mode looks identical to Garuda Ex despite the clear difference in power.

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Because Garuda story mode is not a fraction of Garuda ex mode, they are the same. The Ixal just gathered more crystals together to give her more power with the next summon.

And yes. The Egis are a lore design choice, made long before ARR alpha started.
I just wish the devs bring finally the feature ingame that allow FC to capture a primal for a whole week and where the primal don't respawn for other players until the FC used him, that was also a part of the Egi lore design choice. Keeping the primals unique as gods, where only 1 of each primal can exist at the same time in the open world and give the summoners only a fraction of the primals

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

http://i1.2pcdn.com/node14/image/art...i4fwx4qa1u.gif

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http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...psorzpkghm.png

I know a lot of people would disagree with me but I wouldn't mind it in the least if summoning Leviathan-Egi 1) created a short range aura that pulsed a low HP regen, 2) lowered the summoner's damage potency significantly and 3) increased the summoner's healing potency to that just below a dedicated healer.

The idea would be if a healer died you could raise them and while they are regaining MP you could emergency heal for a short time. Position Leviathan where the regen aura could do the most good and start healing. It would also be handy in open world low player situations or if a healer is removed from a dungeon and the group wanted to continue until a replacement could be found.

Again I know a lot of people would not want this (possibly even because of XI) but utility at the cost of damage (only with that Egi out) would not be such a bad thing perhaps.

Bump! XD

So... new benchmark says no change for how summons look :mad:

Ifrit looks bigger but it is still the awful egi model. I Still would of liked the egi size but the actual summon model.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Leviathan as egi could add: poison, slow debuff, silence, grant water shield to party members that absorb x amount of damage
Ramuh could add: enthunder, shock spikes that have a percentage to paralyze trash mobs and deal additional damage, AOE thunder DOT,
Shiva could add: frost DOT, ice spikes, attack down debuff on trash mobs, piercing or slashing resistance down for 10 seconds
Ifrit could get additional: attack up for party member for 15 seconds every 2 minutes
Garuda could get: hastega for 30 seconds every 2 mnts
Titan could get: earthen armor - absorb certain amount of damage mitigation within 30 seconds evert 3 minutes.

Basically bringing some of FFXI elements to the mix.

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never gonna happen :

SMN will nerfed to the ground dps wise if something like that happened. Making lots of SMN angry , quit or reroll.

SMN will become a support class, being mandatory for 8man, something that SE doesnt want, thats why bard isnt a "bard" in FFXIV

however i agree that pet should bring something , piercing debuff for shiva since only Drg bring it.

SCH has "hastega" already with selene. ,attack done debuff = virus , paralyze is too OP for players , slow debuff exist (drg , blm and mnk ) but doesnt work on boss

im all for bigger and cooler Egis , and for more SMN feel , something like Aion spirimaster could work , skills based around the pet u have out :D

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

Even if they took the XI summons and put them in XIV I'm sure a lot of people would be more happy.

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As long as the summons were as outdated graphically and functionally as XI when compared to XIV sure, you can have them.

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Originally Posted by Kona4me

Bump! XD

So... new benchmark says no change for how summons look :mad:

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Is it really so horrible that they made egi's a chibi caricature of the source primal?

I personally think the gameplay issues with how SMN functions is a far more pressing matter than the artistic choices made in development.

I might get something thrown at me but... What about Scholar? A new fairy.. ? =D VAMPIRE FAIRY!?

SMN would have been much better had Egi's been summoned through Mudra like combos.
That way you would rotate through egis for different effects rather than just defaulting to a particular one.

Sometimes I think I'm the only one who likes Summoner exactly how it is....once the spell speed rework happens, it'll be completely perfect.

<3 dots.