New tanking abilities in the expansion thread!

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Originally Posted by chidarake

this only happens with bad tanks.. cus although it does no damage flash is perfectly capable of holding hate against aoe from any dps in game.

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It's even better since the buff it received, I fail to see how people could still have trouble holding hate with flash, it's almost too good now imo.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Weaponskill: Shatter - Deals damage with a potency of 100 to your target, TP cost 110. Combo Action: Fracture - Deals damage with a potency of 140, and does damage over time with a potency of 75. Duration 15s. Additional Effect: Heavy, duration 5s.

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I think a DoT with a potency of 75 per tick is too high, especially for a tank.

I would murder for something like 0.5-1.0% of damage taken converted to TP. That would be a cool 10-30 TP per hit in Coil.

That being said, you're going to have a BRD playing Paeon in Coil, and anything outside of Coil dies too fast to run out, so would it really be useful?

OMG gimme a gap closer. That's all I want in life. SE and their dumb fights with tons of adds. Sacrificing what little damage we can do, making us run all over the damn place like puppets on strings.

And let Shield Bash (stun) out of GCD.

What I 'll like to see

PLD

A trait that increases overall Dex, Parry, Pyhsical defense and magic defense

3rd combo for Riot blade um Holy Blade. Magic resistance down

A guaranteed block GDC. Now how much of an attack does it block? leave it to the devs to balance but I say 100%

More uses for MP a defensive or offensive move will do. Or maybe a Passive move like Crown of oath 30% reductions of magic moves and it drain MP.


WAR

A trait that increases overall HP and strength

storm path should be 60% damage is converted into HP restored

BLood bath should should be 40% damage dealth is converted in HP restored.

rampage, all skill have their potency doubled. It last 25 seconds on 4 minute cool down. after buff falls of they get a debuff called exhausted, basically a weakend state plus damage taken increases by 25%- 40% for 15 seconds (cant be esuna'd) and pacified for 12 seconds as well as.

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Originally Posted by melflomil

rampage, all skill have their potency doubled. It last 25 seconds on 4 minute cool down. after buff falls of they get a debuff called exhausted, basically a weakend state plus damage taken increases by 25%- 40% for 15 seconds (cant be esuna'd) and pacified for 12 seconds as well as.

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that doesnt even sound worth using

I second the request for a gap-closer. "Valorous Charge" or somesuch. Give it a longish cooldown, if you must; longer than a DRG's jumps and dives; make it burn some good chunk of TP; but let us leap into battle, leap to the aid of comrades in straits dire... :)

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Originally Posted by Wadoka

I second the request for a gap-closer. "Valorous Charge" or somesuch. Give it a longish cooldown, if you must; longer than a DRG's jumps and dives; make it burn some good chunk of TP; but let us leap into battle, leap to the aid of comrades in straits dire... :)

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I'd even settle for having Shoulder charge for a level 55/60 cross class ability (if we get more) to act as a closer. I hate off tanking with strangers - I rarely get DPS who don't go hell for ham before I get a chance to even reach an add let alone pull hate, lock hate and position it.

Yes I'm talking about you - random blackmages without quelling strikes.

Shoulder Tackle as a cross-class would mean that only WAR would get it :(
This is functionality that should be available to all tank classes.

I think it should also have a very short stun (1-2 seconds) so that it can act as an interrupt and will stop a running mob in place for a moment so you can get in at least 1 attack to begin building aggro.

It would definitely need a higher tp cost than the stuns the tanks already have, so that when in melee range it is better to use the stuns we already have.

So yeah, pretty much like Shoulder Tackle just not that as a cross-class.

A gap closer - yes please!

I love the traited berserk (remove Pacification, or just normal trait reducing CD or i5ncreasing duration). Potency is already awesome. I don't think we need it, but it would be awesome.

I would also really lek to see something to manage tp better in OT positions for both tanks. MT is fine. Liberal use of Swipe and Wrath skills are generally enough to keep pace in long fights. But OY, both tanks loose their low tp fillers and just burn tp like a grease fire. I would like to have some function to conserve or regain tp that is weaved into both tanks (not just insta tp button like invig). Just like in MT positions both do useful actions that conserve tp, I'd like to see that when a mob isn't facing you.


But the most important are to address the most requested changes since dawn of time:

3rd hit after riot so pld has a non enmity combo to OT with and have some choice while MT (assuming It has some useful effect)

Do SOMETHING with holmgang. Many ways to address this. Just do something.

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Originally Posted by Nexxus

And let Shield Bash (stun) out of GCD.

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^ that.

Maybe something useful for having WHM be paladin's cross class? I mean, I use stoneskin all the time in coil. Particularly in t9 when I am waiting to explode form Raven's Ascent or for Dalamund Dive to bring Nael back down on me.. Pretty much whenever I am standing around with nothing better to do. Maybe it saves the healers some mp, plus.. why not?

But cures for 200 just aren't worth a damn. And no battle raise...

as mentioned a cd that allows us to nullify or halve tp cost for whatever the devs thought would be a good time. probs 10-15secs,

this would go a long way in preserving tp in raid scenarios. less so outside of them though.

a gap closer would also be pretty cool, but they would have to be careful of distance because otherwise we'd end up jumping to far ahead take tonnes of damage and die from lack of heals.... although that would be more on the tank using the skill correctly.

People say non-GCD Shield Bash? So a 30 second cooldown?

I could see shield swipe moving off the GCD with not much but a positive DPS impact but the Bash is more potent and more available than any other stun. You can't just put it off GCD without giving it a moderate cooldown.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

A gap closer - yes please!

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All tanks should get one, kinda suprised they already dont have this so i hope we will see it in expansion.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

A gap closer - yes please!

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I feel like a gap closure isn't quite needed in FF14 right now. I wouldn't mind seeing one tank get it, like the Warrior getting a Bull Rush type move and seeing how it feels after this expansion, but just him.

I'd want the Paladin to get an extra AoE Move, and the Warrior to get an extra defensive move so we don't have them pigeon-holed into Main and Off tank as much in the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Cariborne

I feel like a gap closure isn't quite needed in FF14 right now. I wouldn't mind seeing one tank get it, like the Warrior getting a Bull Rush type move and seeing how it feels after this expansion, but just him.

I'd want the Paladin to get an extra AoE Move, and the Warrior to get an extra defensive move so we don't have them pigeon-holed into Main and Off tank as much in the expansion.

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main reason for pld being mt is becuase literally all he has as ot is halone and fracture
he runs out of tp with no swipe procs

nothing to do with warrior being "inferior" or "squishier"
war is only worse than pld when you try to play war like pld.
war aint no 3 button dance

A combo system which involves 2 or more characters join together for a group combo a la Chrono Trigger.

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Originally Posted by Cariborne

I feel like a gap closure isn't quite needed in FF14 right now.

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For a tank, i agree you don't need a gap closure but a Melee dps especially monks, you are sooooo wrong about not needing it. Your 3 GS stacks depends on shoulder tackle most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Blueskyy

For a tank, i agree you don't need a gap closure but a Melee dps especially monks, you are sooooo wrong about not needing it. Your 3 GS stacks depends on shoulder tackle most of the time.

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Tanks need a Gap closer....Chasing around adds and then running back is a DPS killer. ex would be T13 phase 2 dragons, you can't OT near Bahamut so there is always a large Gap once the add is down. It could also be useful for opening combos instead of loltomalob or moving out of AoE.

Job trait speculations: Enhanced Shield Swipe, adds a Bleed DoT or an Invul down to Swipe. Something like that.

I don't think moving PLD into more White Magic MP usage is a likely scenario.

Our Western translation of jp's Pld class has this assumption that paladins are divine/religous warriors. It's not so

Pld in jp translates more directly to just Knight. Not necessarily divine or sanctified. The whitemage cross class for gla/pld is already too much appeasement for our western expectations. I hope they don't take it any further continuing this trope

edit: I said dis, then apparently the PAX lvl 60 gear set demo showcased the PLD standing inside a church hohum

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Tanks need a Gap closer....Chasing around adds and then running back is a DPS killer. ex would be T13 phase 2 dragons, you can't OT near Bahamut so there is always a large Gap once the add is down. It could also be useful for opening combos instead of loltomalob or moving out of AoE.

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I think i have to rephrase my words. I think that it's ok for a tank to have gap closer but it's not as important as it is to a DPS, I'm replying to someone saying that gap closure is not needed in FFXIV.

I did a WAR post which I thought was mega cool and no one liked :, ( - here's a PLD one!!!

Weaponskill: Peace of Thaliak - potency 100. Combo Action: Riot Blade - Potency 265, adds a buff to player: "For 10 seconds, natural MP regeneration is increased by 300%"

Spell: Wall. Cast time: 5 seconds. For every ally within 5y of the Paladin, they are granted a temporary shield. Shield potency of 400 based on STR, duration 15s, stacks with SS, Galvanize, MP cost: 800.

Ability: Sword Art - Duration 20s, Cool-down 120s. An additional auto attack for 40 potency is added for each auto attack. For the duration of the skill, blocking is disabled and the Parry rate is increased by 50%

Ability: Vigilance - Duration 10s, Cool-down 300s. If any physical attack is not blocked, it will be parried. If you are hit by any magical attacks, the damage is completely ignored.

After the Pax East panel, I have my doubts about them pushing the mp usage of PLD much, if any farther since they revealed MP management and usage as a major facet of DRK tanking and they will want to keep the play styles of the tanks differenrt.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

After the Pax East panel, I have my doubts about them pushing the mp usage of PLD much, if any farther since they revealed MP management and usage as a major facet of DRK tanking and they will want to keep the play styles of the tanks differenrt.

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There is a difference between mitigation being primarily tied to cool down management (Paladin), stack management (Warrior) and MP management (Dark Knight's implied method). Paladin getting additional offensive actions tied to MP use would not necessarily infringe on the Dark Knight's play style.

One thing to consider is that Tank gear may get a bit more diverse statwise as they may be able to include pieces that enhance Piety and/or Spellspeed. Pre-addition of the Dark Knight such pieces would be "Only usable by Paladins."

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

There is a difference between mitigation being primarily tied to cool down management (Paladin), stack management (Warrior) and MP management (Dark Knight's implied method). Paladin getting additional offensive actions tied to MP use would not necessarily infringe on the Dark Knight's play style.

One thing to consider is that Tank gear may get a bit more diverse statwise as they may be able to include pieces that enhance Piety and/or Spellspeed. Pre-addition of the Dark Knight such pieces would be "Only usable by Paladins."

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They can't very well just tie it directly to MP management or else it would be impossible to balance DRK mitigation with vs. without a BRD.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

They can't very well just tie it directly to MP management or else it would be impossible to balance DRK mitigation with vs. without a BRD.

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Depends heavily on the MP cost of things and intended rotation. I suspect two of their main mitigation methods may be a deflection shield and a target debuff that they need to cast every so often. They will likely have it so that the Dark Knight will start to run out of MP in fights at around the same point Paladins start running out of TP.

I wasn't saying that there potentially couldn't be another offensive ability for PLD that uses MP, I was expressing my doubt as to SqEnix pushing PLD into the more magic heavy holy knight direction that many people have asked for. That was all. One more offensive ability that uses mp as its resource is not pushing the mp usage of PLD that much at all, so falls in line with what I said. But again, I doubt it would go much farther than that.

Warrior:

Infuriate II
Grants 5 stacks of wrath, 60 second cool down.

Inner Beast x 3 yes please.

:x

I am seeing DRK more managing its MP regeneration than its total MP. If its mitigation were based on total MP, you would just be able to stack 3 bards in a group for perma-mana song and have an unbelievable mitigation tank for a while fight. I think they are going to be more like BLM than SMN or WHM in respect to MP management. You'll notice that SMN and SCH both have built in DPS throttles (dps being tied to dots, low potency of ruin) to account for the fact that BRDs could pump them mana effectively.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

Warrior:

Infuriate II
Grants 5 stacks of wrath, 60 second cool down.

Inner Beast x 3 yes please.

:x

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Inner Balance

Grants infinite Wrath for 20s

yfw

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Inner Balance

Grants infinite Wrath for 20s

yfw

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should be called inner rage

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

snip.

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Agreed, some sort of "burn through then build back up" mechanic for DRK mp management would make the most sense. The build back up phase could in effect work like a psudo cooldown, sort of like building wrath to use IB. All in all, I am definitely curious to see the exacts of how it works.

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Originally Posted by aisustrong

that doesnt even sound worth using

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Well maybe I exaggerated a little about the weakness of the skill but a skill that doubles the potency's of all your attack should have a down side.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

I am seeing DRK more managing its MP regeneration than its total MP. If its mitigation were based on total MP, you would just be able to stack 3 bards in a group for perma-mana song and have an unbelievable mitigation tank for a while fight. I think they are going to be more like BLM than SMN or WHM in respect to MP management. You'll notice that SMN and SCH both have built in DPS throttles (dps being tied to dots, low potency of ruin) to account for the fact that BRDs could pump them mana effectively.

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yea, this is what I was getting at

I was bored and tried to come up with expansion traits and abilities for all the jobs. I didn't manage to do all of them, but here are my dumb ideas about Warrior.

TRAITS

52 - Bloodwrath
Improves the damage to HP conversion of Bloodbath to 35%.
Bloodbath grants Wrath when used with Defiance. Duration: 30s

56 - Adrenaline Rush.
Thrill of Battle instantly restores 200 TP.
Thrill of Battle grants Wrath when used with Defiance. Duration: 30s

60 - Vendetta
Extends Vengeance duration to 20 seconds. Vengeance delivers an attack with a potency of 50 every time you suffer physical or magical damage.

CLASS ACTIONS

54 - Iron Tempest
Weaponskill TP 60
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Heavy Swing Combo Potency: 220
Grants Wrath when used with Defiance. Duration: 30s

58 - Hurricane Swing
Weaponskill TP 60
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Iron Tempest Combo Potency: 260
Combo Bonus: Summons a raging tempest, dealing damage with a potency of 15 to enemies within 5y. Duration: 15s
Grants Wrath when used with Defiance. Duration: 30s

JOB ACTIONS

55 - Rampage
Ability Recast 180s
Increases attack speed by 15%. Duration: 30s
Can only be executed when Infuriated. All Wrath is lost when used.

60 - Storm's Wrath
Weaponskill
Delivers an attack with a potency of 200.
Ignores the damage penalty inflicted by Defiance.
Can only be executed when Infuriated. All Wrath is lost when used.
Target affected by Storm's Eye: Storm's Wrath potency increased by 100. Storm's Eye duration resets if shorter than the original effect duration. Increases damage dealt by 5%. Duration: 10s
Target affected by Storm's Path: Storm's Wrath potency increased by 100. Storm's Path duration resets if shorter than the original effect duration. Reduces damage taken by 5%. Duration: 10s


Note: I purposefully tried to avoid defensive cooldowns, since I think they are much harder to balance. I've no idea what SE intends to do on that front.

All I want on a Tank right now is a skill that lets you charge towards an enemy.

Because Tomahawk or Shield Lob will make the enemy go to you and some of them will IMMEDIATELY casts an aoe, making them stop in their tracks instead of following me. Which is a bright-LED sign for the dps that says "HIT ME AS HARD AS YOU CAN AND AS FAST AS YOU CAN AND STEAL AGRO FROM THE TANK!" in large red letters. It's worse if there are multiple enemies like this and the BLM is a crazy pyromancer (I'm looking at you, bloody FROGS and TOADS).

Let me charge/jump to them and THEN I can put more agro on them before the DPS goes all hell on its face.

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Originally Posted by Cariborne

I feel like a gap closure isn't quite needed in FF14 right now. I wouldn't mind seeing one tank get it, like the Warrior getting a Bull Rush type move and seeing how it feels after this expansion, but just him.

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....

http://emotibot.net/pix/406.jpg

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

I was bored and tried to come up with expansion traits and abilities for all the jobs. I didn't manage to do all of them, but here are my dumb ideas about Warrior.

TRAITS

52 - Bloodwrath
Improves the damage to HP conversion of Bloodbath to 35%.
Bloodbath grants Wrath when used with Defiance. Duration: 30s

56 - Adrenaline Rush.
Thrill of Battle instantly restores 200 TP.
Thrill of Battle grants Wrath when used with Defiance. Duration: 30s

60 - Vendetta
Extends Vengeance duration to 20 seconds. Vengeance delivers an attack with a potency of 50 every time you suffer physical or magical damage.

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These are actually really nice ideas. :o +1