Once you start giving out the Carbontwines

This idea would be nice or at least give us the option to pick which set(s) we upgrade. The ironworks sets suck for my two mains Bard and Smn.

(sorry I dont think we're going to get this but it would be nice....)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utsu

I already answered, please read my post again : you don't have any useful way to use the i130 gear if you don't clean the Coil.

You're just answering me with other questions, I still wait a correct answer : why do you really need i130 gear if the i120 gear is enough for what you're doing ?

---

U answered ur own question sheesh. U want 130 to clear content clearable 20 ilvls earlier a bit faster, it's as useless and pointless as someone gearing up to do dungeons/ex primals. But people do it because what else is there to do....

"hardcore theorycraft, hardcore raid trials like solohealing and speedkills" so you need gear to overgear content and trivialise it. Very hardcore.

I could heal, tank and DPS sastasha on my SCH, if only that silly lvl sync wasn't there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sessurea

U answered ur own question sheesh. U want 130 to clear content clearable 20 ilvls earlier a bit faster, it's as useless and pointless as someone gearing up to do dungeons/ex primals. But people do it because what else is there to do....

"hardcore theorycraft, hardcore raid trials like solohealing and speedkills" so you need gear to overgear content and trivialise it. Very hardcore.

---

You don't know what top CLs are doing, do you ?

There is probably tons of things you don't know about "hardcore" optimization.

I don't blame you for that, but please, don't judge us, raiders, if you can't imagine all the possibilities that the game offer.

i130 gear should be a key for raiders who cleaned FCoB to do more than that, as I said, speedkills, solohealing, theorycrafting to up the potential of the jobs/rosters at their top. That's just my opinion, and I still don't understand why so much ppl want endgame gear without any way to use it correctly.

Someone said "fun", I don't understand where's the fun to kill something with 130 gear instead of 120 gear, but whatever, why not ?

My girlfriend wants a Fat Cat "for fun", but she's only lvl 15, so she can't get it, Square Enix should design a way for her to get Fat Cat and have fun ? I don't think so.

I'm afraid of "give ppl what they want, whatever they want".

It won't happen, its too late now.

If anything, it may open their eyes to reconsidering how they should handle these things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Synestr

I could heal, tank and DPS sastasha on my SCH, if only that silly lvl sync wasn't there.

---

Sastasha normal? you can do it on sch even with level sync... I mean if eos can tank Titan ex for a minute she could tank lowlevel dungeons already ages ago XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utsu

My feeling is that i130 gear is designed for raiders to optimize themselves

---

For the very reason of optimizing myself, I am quite happy that there are i130 options outside of final coil. Half of the items in final coil are bad, half the ironworks items are bad, having both available lets me create a gear set of items that aren't bad. I shiver at the thought of having to wear the entire final coil fending set for the lack of other options.
I would argue that gear optimization is something exclusive to raiders since they have two i130 gear sets available to choose items from. If there were no options, there would be no optimization in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utsu

i130 gear should be a key for raiders who cleaned FCoB to do more than that, as I said, speedkills, solohealing, theorycrafting to up the potential of the jobs/rosters at their top. That's just my opinion, and I still don't understand why so much ppl want endgame gear without any way to use it correctly.

---

You can't use gear "incorrectly", this is why people are calling you elitist.

Quote:

---

My girlfriend wants a Fat Cat "for fun", but she's only lvl 15, so she can't get it, Square Enix should design a way for her to get Fat Cat and have fun ?

---

This is a bad comparison. No one is asking to get Dreadwyrm gear without doing Coil, just like you can't get a fat cat without leveling fisher but you can get other minions in other ways (never mind that you could always buy it for her..) and Op wants other ways to get 130lvl gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moqi

You can't use gear "incorrectly", this is why people are calling you elitist.


This is a bad comparison. No one is asking to get Dreadwyrm gear without doing Coil, just like you can't get a fat cat without leveling fisher but you can get other minions in other ways (never mind that you could always buy it for her..) and Op wants other ways to get 130lvl gear.

---

It was just an exemple to show that "fun" can't always be obtainable when we want to get him. I could find other comparisons probably, but it will be the same result. I know, ppl want fun, but how i130 gear can give them some fun ? It's not a criticism, I'm really wondering why, because, as I said, for me, i130 gear should just be a tool for hardcore raiders.

I just want to understand your way of thinking, and I want you to understand mine without calling me elitist : )

Well...here's my say on the "You don’t need item level 130 gear" idea thrown around by some players. Yes, some of us do need the highest level gear we can get. We don’t know what will be in the next patch or what item levels will be for Dfs. we don’t know how hard the Ex primal will be to beat in DF ( yes, some of us use DF to clear fights ALL the time. Try it, you might enjoy it.) Lastly, speaking only for myself. I play SMN and Sch. I have 30 points in Intl. ( I know, I could fix that, but I don’t want to) I use my skills to get the highest level gear, I can get for my Scholar to make up the gaps to help my friends clear Ex primals and sometimes Coils. So yes, I need that gear. Also, I think everyone should seek to better themselves at all times. You never know when a FC or friend may need help with FCOB. It’s nice to be ready. "Just my thoughts'

I don't understand why people want more ilvl130 gear just to do WoD and zerg hunts. I must have missed something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aurora-Pendragon

I don't understand why people want more ilvl130 gear just to do WoD and zerg hunts. I must have missed something.

---

I'm not even sure why there is 130 in the 1st place. I guess the obvious answer is sense of reward, but it doesn't even have that , for me anyways lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Werhusky

Sastasha normal? you can do it on sch even with level sync... I mean if eos can tank Titan ex for a minute she could tank lowlevel dungeons already ages ago XD

---

Really already? Solo? ...

You seem to have missed my finely executed point.

{I'm Sorry}

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aurora-Pendragon

I don't understand why people want more ilvl130 gear just to do WoD and zerg hunts. I must have missed something.

---

That's pretty what I'm asking since the beginning. I really want to understand why ppl want i130 gear, especially because I think i130 is, and should be, a tool for raiders who cleaned Coil and want to up their potential and capacities by doing "hardcore trials" and tons of theorycrafting.

It's fine as is. If there are more 130 gear options then it would make coil pointless to attempt. I couldn't even get into savage because the rewards weren't worth it. Yeah there are some elitist that protest difficulty = top gear but I don't mind if say the relic ended up 10 ilvl above dread. I'd still want the dread body pieces and accessories. If they added a third 130 set then I'd wouldn't want relic to come within 15 ilvls (currently that would be 120) to the dread weapons. Who in there right mind would attempt the challenge, attempt to build a static, deal with a random loot roll where you get locked out once cleared.
2 sets are fine. I'd prefer more weapon choices. Wod should have 120 (or maybe even 125) weapons.

To me raiders, thinking that somehow lower ilvl is enaugh to clear content or that is not needed, justifies them, is so laughable for their stupidity. Current system in MMO dictates about not what is enaugh, but better gear just shortens your time in doing so. There is absolutly no strategical aproach to skill usage in this game or any other mmo that labels itself as rpg. There is just skill rotation. Do any of you ever think about how skill is executed, what aptitude of physical prowes is required for doing it, what motions it involves can those rotary motions be interupted by interfierence, what is minimal space for putting effective impact behind skills full motion, etc....

.....For now nobody cares for that, all you care is just number of potency put on skill description, character could swing middle finger with some shiny screen effects and all you'd be discussing is how big is the dmg potency and not the ridiculousnes of the skill animation. For you its just the sequence of button presses and that is all the mastery there is. Once everybody knows the button sequence, thats it, we are all equal in skill. All thats left is jumping through hoopes in unison in the instance called the raid. Baiscaly its just group dancing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sessurea

I'm not even sure why there is 130 in the 1st place.

---

I don't really care about the sense of the reward (it does nothing for me too), but some people need higher ilvl than the one the content was designed for to clear it. That's how I always looked at the highest ilvl gear anyway. It's why Tower gear being "catch up" gear but then 10 ilvl below Coil never made much sense. How is it supposed to help you catch up if it doesn't give you any advantage over the gear you already have? You're in the same boat as before.

Plus if "upgraded" WoD gear were dyeable like the upgraded Ironwork is, that'd be reason enough alone to get it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gzuscry

.....For now nobody cares for that, all you care is just number of potency put on skill description, character could swing middle finger with some shiny screen effects and all you'd be discussing is how big is the dmg potency and not the ridiculousnes of the skill animation. For you its just the sequence of button presses and that is all the mastery there is. Once everybody knows the button sequence, thats it, we are all equal in skill. All thats left is jumping through hoopes in unison in the instance called the raid. Baiscaly its just group dancing.

---

Gear isn't skill, sure, but endgame gear give access to more possibilities, that's why I'm saying that i130 is/should be one key/tool for raiders, i130 gear is not really useful for other players, and I'm still wondering why they want it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utsu

Gear isn't skill, sure, but endgame gear give access to more possibilities, that's why I'm saying that i130 is/should be one key/tool for raiders, i130 gear is not really useful for other players, and I'm still wondering why they want it.

---

How is having more HP and doing more damage not useful to someone doing EX primals, the newest dungeons, and the CT runs?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

Because ilvl dictates BiS now? NO, the stats dictate what is BiS and WoD, ironworks and Dread all have their own stats meaning anyone of them will be BiS imo Dread still has the best stats out of all 3 sets.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Dr...obe_of_Healing

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Au...obe_of_Healing

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wi...obe_of_Healing


So in this case the BIS happens to be the hardest one to acquire the Dread, since it gives both SCH and WHM vital stats they need, sure it has no DET but a both classes and use SS and Crit well.

---

Actually no, for SCH Dread is BiS, for WHM Augmented IW is BiS. The Pie on IW far outweighs the crit or SS for WHM, not even considering the DET.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

How is having more HP and doing more damage not useful to someone doing EX primals, the newest dungeons, and the CT runs?

---

Shhh don't fight it with logic, we must let this one blossom......I think his LB is about charged too.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

How is having more HP and doing more damage not useful to someone doing EX primals, the newest dungeons, and the CT runs?

---

i120 is enough to do that, and Echo will help. You're not really understanding what I'm saying about the best gear. The best gear offers more than stats, really more. I invite you to read my others posts.

Tl;dr : i130 gear is more than better stats, it gives access for "hardcore raiders" to more possibilities and theorycrafting to up their character and raid potential. There is tons of things you don't even imagine about PvE "HL". i130 is a tool for us, I don't care if non-raiders get it, I just want to know why they want it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

So your attitude is you don't raid so you don't deserve ilvl 130 gear. And this is why people are labeled as elitist. Your saying im not aloud to have gear because i dont go FcoB, i pay my sub im aloud to have the entire game.

---

Nope. You call raiders elitist because you get offended by everything a raider says for some reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utsu

Gear isn't skill, sure, but endgame gear give access to more possibilities, that's why I'm saying that i130 is/should be one key/tool for raiders, i130 gear is not really useful for other players, and I'm still wondering why they want it.

---

Your not wondering why they want it, you know why people want it because many people have told you. Your actually choosing to ignore what people have told you, going in one ear and out the other. That is a choice your making to put your fingers in your ears metaphorically speaking.

Your whole argument is highly flawed in multiple ways to begin with...firstly raiders do not need ilvl130 anymore so than people in for example WoD or even grinding 4-man dungeons. Coil can be completed without i130, as can most other aspects of this game so your position is limited to just one thing and that one thing is killing things faster or challenging yourself with your own personal challenges on the content, everything else you said was pointless.

Secondly given we can establish your only argument is on the optimization, challenging yourself and/or killing things faster using ilvl130 gear, this logic is applicable to many other areas of the game which could benefit from i130 if the goal is to kill more efficiently with no difference between coil or other content. Killing faster in coil is no different than killing faster in WoD etc and both benefit from higher ilvl gear in exactly the same way.

Such things are not limited to gear too for example EX trials, 24-man raids plus 4-man dungeons on top of 8-man coils each have that same additional self imposed challenging element from group composition, lowering your ilvl on purpose to challenge yourself, changing tactics or trying it with fewer people. If you truly wanted to challenge yourself and give yourself purpose beyond the clear alone then gear is just one element in that but all the elements are applicable to almost all other areas of this game and not limited to coils.

Gear opens up more possibilities you claim but those possibilities are not limited or only applicable to coils, they are also for all other content in the same way. Clearing Titan EX for example faster is no different than clearing T10 faster, how fast can our group kill Titan or how fast we can clear T13 etc they are the same thing and both things benefit from better gear yet retain the challenging aspect if your willing to use your imagination.

You want to perfect your rotation or DPS? Such things can be done almost any dungeon. What your actually doing is saying can you perfect your rotation and DPS (on T13 for example) and trying to use that as an excuse to object to anyone else using ilvl 130 to perfect theirs on say Titan which is just another example. Both examples are doing the same thing in two different places. The pushing boundaries or optimization is not a valid excuse because it can be done anywhere if they have the gear.

The question then becomes why should coil be the only place to obtain ilvl130 gear? My reaction is why should ilvl130 be only obtainable through coils instead...the answer is nothing more than ego given the use of that gear is equally applicable to all ilvl non-restricted dungeons or trials, raids or content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utsu

i120 is enough to do that, and Echo will help. You're not really understanding what I'm saying about the best gear. The best gear offers more than stats, really more. I invite you to read my others posts.

---

I did read them, and you repeatedly said it was not useful and not needed for anything but top raiding. It is useful for other parts of the game, and it's not needed in any part of the game, period.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Your not wondering why they want it, you know why people want it because many people have told you. Your actually choosing to ignore what people have told you, going in one ear and out the other. That is a choice your making to put your fingers in your ears metaphorically speaking.

Secondly given we established your only argument is on the optimization, challenging yourself and/or killing things faster, this logic is applicable to many other areas of the game which could benefit from i130 if the goal is to kill more efficiently with no difference between coil or other content. Killing faster in coil is no different than killing faster in WoD etc and both benefit from higher ilvl gear in exactly the same way. Such things are not limited to gear too for example EX trials, 24-man raids plus 4-man dungeons on top of 8-man coils each have that same additional self imposed challenging element from group composition, lowering your ilvl on purpose to challenge yourself, changing tactics or trying it with fewer people. If you truly wanted to challenge yourself and give yourself purpose beyond the clear alone then gear is just one element in that but all the elements are applicable to almost all other areas of this game.

Your whole argument is highly flawed in multiple ways to begin with...firstly raiders do not need ilvl130 anymore so than people in for example WoD or even grinding 4-man dungeons. Coil can be completed without i130, as can most other aspects of this game so your position is limited to just one thing and that one thing is killing things faster or challenging yourself with your own personal challenges on the content, everything else you said was pointless. Gear opens up more possibilities you claim but those possibilities are not limited or only applicable to coils, they are also for all other content in the same way. Clearing Titan EX for example faster is no different than clearing T10 faster, they are the same thing and both things benefit from better gear yet retain the challenge if your willing to use your imagination.

---

No, it's not about "challenge", it's just about "optimization" and "theorycrafting". Doing speedkills etc is like upgrading our skill and the coordination of all the members of the party. We could do it with less gear, but there is some details that changed with more stats.

More stats give fun for some ppl, I understood, but the potential of the best gear is more than that.

Yeah okay, best gear makes content easy, of course, but it shouldn't be designed for that as main reason, endgame gear should just be a tool for raiders who cleaned Coil to upgrade their skills and rosters potential.

That's just my opinion, and I'm not elitist because I don't care if you get the same gear as me, I'm just afraid of "giving everything to everyone whatever they want", "fun" seems to be a good reason for you, not for me.

If we do that on Coil that's because it won't be a "zerg" like doing a primal EX or something, Coil is more difficult and fight are longers, that's better for testing.

Sorry, you dont know this and you couldnt know. Here's why: Try beating Odin at item level 95 in Df (you won't win) Try beating Shiva Ex at item level 95 ( I'd love to see the vids of that fight!!!) Point being is not eveyone comes into fights at high item levels, some player will try fights at item level, you gotta overgear for that...trust me. Also, the gear in this patch is a JOKE. Non-Raiders and Non Hardcore players who want to clear stuff are going to need every bit of gear they can get. This argument is a Dead Duck in the water, leave it be. Raiders get the best gear first, everyone else waits. We've waited, now please just let US enjoy our leftovers, thank you very much.

Sorry left out the Quote. This is for Utsu, let us see you really challenge yourself. Clear things in DF alone without Your Super Coil friends or Super Coil gear.
Go ahead....

All right, I'll get into this convo, but let me bring in a different point of view. As a game designer, we have to look into the large scale of things to attempt to "predict" how players will react. In some cases, this failed miserably (the Hunt and its abuse when it launched). In the case of i130 gear, the reason why it is locked behind FCoB is quite simple. It is meant as a justifiable reward for doing FCoB. If i130 gear was available outside of FCoB, no one would do it except people who like doing it for fun, thus only a small portion of players would continue FCoB without a viable reward in place for all that (theoretical) hard grueling work. It's the risk vs reward system at its finest.

As for the argument of elitist raiders keeping i130 stuff. That's not it at all. As one person said, you have to understand why someone wants i130 gear. As it stands, i130 gear is a reward for FCoB. With FCoB being the hardest content in game at the moment, those who have it carry status. They are seen as "badass" because of it. So it stands to reason that other people want i130 gear so that they can feel badass and carry that status as well. Problem is, in its current state, upgrading WoD gear to 130 vs cranking through FCoB is quite a different challenge.

Any player can join a hunt LS and grind out seals to purchase mats for upgrading POE gear. That doesn't take skill, only patience. FCoB, on the other hand, requires players to know their roles and mechanics of the fight. They need to hit certain requirements or repeatedly fail. That kind of stuff requires skill.

But I also argue that gear doesn't equal skill either. Rather, i130 is a reward for that skill. In the end, there is the old saying; "If everyone is special, then no one is."

Before anyone goes blasting me for being an elitist, just know, i hate elitism to its absolute core (I JUST beat T5 the other day). It damages the community. I am not supporting elitists, I am simply saying that i130 should remain as rewards for those who strive to be the best in their roles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utsu

That's just my opinion, and I'm not elitist because I don't care if you get the same gear as me, I'm just afraid of "giving everything to everyone whatever they want", "fun" seems to be a good reason for you, not for me.

---

Clearly you do care else you would not be posting in here against the suggestion. Your actively trying to shoot down or shut down the suggestion because you care so much about it. What seems clear to me is your ignoring why people are telling you it should be opened up, the reasons they are giving you and your doing so because it damages your ego if others had ilvl130 but never got it the same way as you did whether they got ilvl130 through 24-man content or trials, even 4-man dungeons as opposed to 8-man content. there is only one reason why anyone would be against opening up where could obtain ilvl130 gear and that can be summed up in one word "Ego", nothing more and nothing less.

Honestly, Utsu, you are not doing yourself any favors at all in dispelling a stigma about raiders being elitists. In fact, you're simply making yourself look more elitist with each post you write.

Working on FCOB now, I can still safely say that people like you that hint (or flat out state) that people that don't do FCOB shouldn't get access to any way to improve their character really get on my nerves. In addition, I think your whole i130 gear is "more than just stats, it's so much more" is total BS. It's stats and e-peen and nothing more.

There is no NEED to overgear if you are one of those players that perfection rotations etc.... see those raisdgroups that clear all contant day 1... I am none of those and see it as nice option.
I dont see any point not making high ilvl gear available for everyone. BUT noone needs i102 for T5 or i120 for T9 and those partyfinders make me angry :mad: the current system makes people gear imo TOO FAST its a catch up system I accept it but when i leveled my alt i was i 100 in 2, maybe 3 weeks only by st weekly/hunts/soldiery gear (was pre poetics).
Give people time to get used to your class before you are i120 but sadly in many minds is a ilvl makes me better thought :(
I see the possibility to get those upgrade items (which names they every may carry) outside of coils as a nice option. I dont do hunts.... I dont feel like grinding this... I wait for the way they add the tomestone for weapon (might get whm wep for alt) and the item for left side. I dont see a rush.
My ilvl is 118 on main sch and idm if it stays that "low". I start FCOB atm and the raiding is not oh I feel better I just enjoy doing mechanics.... and now I forget what else I wanted to say :rolleyes:

Edit: Oh yes no need to make the ilevel higher for WoD gear. But some primal dropping i130 pieces like ex primals did at 2.1 release for at that time on i90 YES I WANT THIS. Not only tomes and Final coil should make you get that better gear :O

Oh okay, I finally understand.

Non-raiders have fun with i130 gear.

Raiders have more possibilities with i130 gear.

Not the same goal, but still useful for both of them.

So, yeah, ok, I understand your point of view.

It's like playing football or basketball with a tennis ball.

As a footballer I don't understand why you want to use the same ball as me, but you have your reasons. Am I right ?

Cheers.

PS : And no, I'm really not elitist, I just wanted to understand clearly your goal with 130 gear, cause for me there is (was) only one goal : optimization. Now I understand clearly your way of thinking and your goal with the i130, even if I don't have the same.
I still think that the i130 should be a raider reward, just because for me the i130 is an optimization tool, but I can't blame ppl that having another utility with that gear.

PS2 : Nah Northern, my gear isn't only stats and e-peen. I'm working hard to improve my skill as SCH, i130 helps me because it gives more way to do it. I'm free to talk with anyone about the optimization of my class : )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kumabear76

All right, I'll get into this convo, but let me bring in a different point of view. As a game designer, we have to look into the large scale of things to attempt to "predict" how players will react. In some cases, this failed miserably (the Hunt and its abuse when it launched). In the case of i130 gear, the reason why it is locked behind FCoB is quite simple. It is meant as a justifiable reward for doing FCoB. If i130 gear was available outside of FCoB, no one would do it except people who like doing it for fun, thus only a small portion of players would continue FCoB without a viable reward in place for all that (theoretical) hard grueling work. It's the risk vs reward system at its finest.

---

i130 gear is now available outside of Coil via hunts though. This is basically a catch-up patch. Tomestones will probably be put into WoD soon enough, maybe as soon as the next patch. The relic quest gets its new advancement soon too, and will quite possibly end up being BiS until the next patch (maybe even the expansion since we're not getting a new raid till then). That seems to be the cycle that they're on for raid/relic gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Honestly, Utsu, you are not doing yourself any favors at all in dispelling a stigma about raiders being elitists. In fact, you're simply making yourself look more elitist with each post you write.

---

Honestly, some people just assume raiders are elitist completely independently of what Utsu might say. It's not exclusive to FFXIV's community - it exists in just about every game that has raiding. "High-tier" content is by nature exclusive. You need gear, you need skills, you need the ability to test mechanics and follow instructions. Some people that don't necessarily have one or more of those will inevitably assume that those that do are elitists whether it's true or not. That's not to say I think the poster you're replying to is wording their posts the best, but I think some assumptions are being made about her reasons. *shrugs*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Clearly you do care else you would not be posting in here against the suggestion. Your actively trying to shoot down or shut down the suggestion because you care so much about it.

---

Just because someone disagrees with you on the subject doesn't necessarily mean they're deliberately trying to hold you back or hold you down. They may disagree with it for completely different reasons altogether. Hell, I've heard that some people only want the Augmented Ironworks because that makes it dyeable. I personally think that's bit silly, but I know how people can be about their glamours so it's kind of a 'whatever' thing to me. I wish people would quit pulling this "if you don't agree with me, it means you are _____" argument and just stick to a civil discussion. People are allowed to have dissenting opinions. She said she doesn't care if you get the same gear. Why not take that at face value? A lot of the Ironworks gear is BiS so it helps raiders hone their gear too.

I'm a raider myself (only working on T12 so I'm not as hardcore as some, but I mean there are tons of people that are stuck at T5 or T9) and I don't care if someone has Augmented Ironworks gear. It's not like SE is giving away free Dreadwyrm anytime soon, so the fact that I have a few pieces of it already marks me as someone that's doing something to stand out from the people that do hunts all day for their i130 gear. I'm liking the weekly quest for the Carboncoat, and my static hunts whenever we can because Coil only coughs up so much upgrade material. Most raiders have no problem getting on the hunt train to upgrade some items, especially for alt classes.

One general question.
The expansion is due to hit in what, 2 months? 2.51 on the 24th, 2.52 late March, then 3.0?
As soon as the level cap goes to 60, the entire gearing curve will change.
Let me give you an example. In RIFT, I went into the expansion at lvl 50 with pretty much the best available gear. By lvl 55 higher quality quest rewards and dungeon drops were better than my lvl 50 raid gear. By lvl 58, common mob drops were BETTER in main stats, weapon damage, and defense, than my lvl 50 raid gear.

How long will it take people go get from 50 to 60?
When the game launched, people went from 1 to 50 in a week. I would not be surprised if people go from 50 to 60 in a week as well.

Once 3.0 hits, we will probably OUTGROW the best gear available in under a week, in less than a single reset cycle. So does it really matter?
Looking at the bosses in FCOB, you really can do them in half 110 and half poetics, as long as your group properly executes the mechanics (ie nobody dies). Gear does not play nearly as big of a role in FCOB as it did in First Coil.

Remember First Coil was designed such that we would need about half i90 to beat T5. Second Coil was tuned down a bit in terms of gear, but was heavier on mechanics, in exchange we got Savage Coil. Now we have FCOB, the pre-expansion raid. Lots of mechanics, lots of group responsibility... fewer massive dps checks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Honestly, Utsu, you are not doing yourself any favors at all in dispelling a stigma about raiders being elitists. In fact, you're simply making yourself look more elitist with each post you write.

---

That will never be dispelled and I don't think anyone cares to do so, since non-raiders will call you an elitist simply for being a raider.

While I think that non-raiders should be able to upgrade their gear, I also think that non-raid gear should either be 5-10 ilvls below raid gear and only be upgradable to the same ilvl with a raid drop OR the upgrade material can be obtainable from elsewhere BUT the upgrade item should not be obtainable in higher quantities than raiders have access to, especially not from completely braindead content, like it is now...

I doubt we "outgrow" i130 gear might be just about i55 AF was at newly 50 or maybe it will be around Darklight in its "power".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utsu

Oh okay, I finally understand.

...

As a footballer I don't understand why you want to use the same ball as me, but you have your reasons. Am I right ?

---

i130 helps me because it gives more way to do it. I'm free to talk with anyone about the optimization of my class : )

---

You still don't seem to understand, it's more like high school/college basketball teams wanting to play with the same quality of basketballs as a NBA team.

What is the end goal of your optimization, to clear content faster and easier? That is not something exclusive to top raids.

This its a great idea, specially cuz poetics/ WoD and Final Coil gear have diferent secondary stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

You still don't seem to understand, it's more like high school/college basketball teams wanting to play with the same quality of basketballs as a NBA team.

What is the end goal of your optimization, to clear content faster and easier? That is not something exclusive to top raids.

---

That's not my goal, my goal is to have fun, like you. And optimize my class is my way of having fun on this game. Finding the best ways to play my character is my goal to have fun while playing. Like Ash Ketchum : I WANNA BEEEEE THE VERY BEST *tududu* etc.

And okay for you example, I get it, cheers.