Dragoon: top dps and easiest melee class by far ?

So what if dragoon had their FT combo be side - rear - side, and their CT combo rear - side - rear? Would you guys (dragoons) be okay ? And each time you miss one you miss 1/3rd of the potency. That's pretty much what mnk are dealing with now. Is that fine with you ?

Seriously. Anyone arguing that drg is anywhere near mnk or nin difficulty level post patch is out of their goddamn mind.

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Originally Posted by Casper

"As for Off GCD, all three share invigorate, BfB, raging. .

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Dragoon doesn't have raging strikes. neither does nin. I think monk doesn't either?

Also how can you even say dragoon is dumbed down, when nin is exactly as easy as dragoon( now )?

The only difficult thing I can see is for monks chasing down positionals, and by that I mean difficult positionals. ( moving rotating targets ), while a dragoon could consider skiping a positional and nin.....well nin does w/e.

Everything else is just key sequence muscle memory at this point. Just "pressing buttons" as you said.

Off topic but the brave among us use jump during nerve gas! I always use it in between the two big cones :D

Anyone claiming MNK is hard is out of their mind too. It's not hard to keep your positionals. The thing used to be though that if you missed impulse drive or even Heavy thrust, it was actually quite a big DPS loss. Especially since it's out of your control. Yes you can predict boss movements, but so can a MNK. It's just more punishing for a DRG. Maybe they should have kept the Impulse Drive combo from the back. Although, when you use impulse drive, you sometimes just keep going and you realise your disembowel hits like nothing and you had to start over or keep going and suffer a huge DPS loss.
Following

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Originally Posted by Casper

So what if dragoon had their FT combo be side - rear - side, and their CT combo rear - side - rear? Would you guys (dragoons) be okay ? And each time you miss one you miss 1/3rd of the potency. That's pretty much what mnk are dealing with now. Is that fine with you ?

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I'd love if they spiced up FT combo.

Why not make it so that Heavy Thrust does zero damage unless it meets the positional requirement?
Maybe even adjust the trait "Heavier Thrusts, if executed from the flank it'll extend the duration of Heavy Thrust's buff from 10 seconds to 20 seconds."

I just dislike how you make it seem that MNK is so much harder. It really isn't. Getting your positionals off to me was always so much easier on a MNK since it's so much faster to attack. It's not hard at all, but I guess that's just me. A Dragoon to me always had a lot more to look out for. Now it's less, but you still have to use more off the global cooldown abilities, you have an equal amount of dots that damage to keep up and one dot less indirectly (heavy thrust compared to dragon kick and twin snakes).
On the other hand, Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes are just part of the rotation that follows very swiftly. It's not hard to keep them up and it's not hard to keep heavy thrust up at all.
As a MNK you also have a 5% perma buff and you also have a fist of Earth which can be handy in a lot of situations. You have more utility and you probably still will do more damage than a Dragoon.

MNK is easy and so is DRG. MNK has more utility and arguably still more damage. So stop moaning.

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

Anyone claiming MNK is hard is out of their mind too. It's not hard to keep your positionals. The thing used to be though that if you missed impulse drive or even Heavy thrust, it was actually quite a big DPS loss. Especially since it's out of your control. Yes you can predict boss movements, but so can a MNK. It's just more punishing for a DRG. Maybe they should have kept the Impulse Drive combo from the back. Although, when you use impulse drive, you sometimes just keep going and you realise your disembowel hits like nothing and you had to start over or keep going and suffer a huge DPS loss.
Following

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I think "hard" is beginning to be a strange way to look at this. Someone above finds nin hardest ( oO ), but w/e. I think it's fair to say nins and dragoons work equally as hard for damage now, while monks have more work to do to achieve their dps, and theres no denying that now to be fair.

I agree. Lol, luckily I'm a Dragoon xD

So complain about the NIN being too easy..but no complaints about the DRG buffs that does the exact same thing? This community confuses me.

The discussion on positionals is pathetic.

Before the patch, you are saying positionals are easy peasy once you get used to them.

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Originally Posted by Casper

It's literally sidestepping 2 steps on the left or the right every couple of attacks. It doesn't require a PhD in positionnal attacks.

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After the patch, you are saying the removal of positional impact is dumbing down the job and act like it is very hard.

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Originally Posted by Casper

But they dumbed down drg to the ground -- there is literally nothing hard about it now, and it is easier than both mnk or nin by several orders.

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Originally Posted by Casper

So what if dragoon had their FT combo be side - rear - side, and their CT combo rear - side - rear? Would you guys (dragoons) be okay ? And each time you miss one you miss 1/3rd of the potency. That's pretty much what mnk are dealing with now. Is that fine with you ?

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So what now?

Most likely there will never be an objective statement which of both is "harder" or "more easy" overall, and this is a good thing, both seem viable now (balanced!).

If you play DRG -> Why not be happy with it?
If you don't -> Why not be happy for DRGs?

Rest didn't change..

If MNK will ever get a change to make the positionals less punishing like DRG is now, why should DRGs comlain about it? Same goes for this change IMHO.

Hakuna matata

They could have given 9999 potency to Jump while they were at it.

I'm just fucking disgusted by the incredible lack of objectivity of 80% of the dragoon that care to post. Acting like jutsu are as easy to manage as other off GCD ability is absolute nonsense -- they all share their CD, for one, so you need to keep your rotation straight, and you need to do it as quickly as possible, because they will eat your GCD no matter what, so you can't slack, and if you ever double tap one button you fucked it up and lose a HUGE amount of dps ; and you need in all that to account for any lag spike that will fuck it up. Yes, by getting used to it it becomes easier, but it's still 10 times harder to use than any other GCD action, and not accounting for this difficulty and saying "lol nin zero positionnal" is pure nonsense.

Also the whole reason drg were crying is because they got punished too hard for missing one positionnal. Guess what ? It's now 7 times harsher to miss nin positionnal attack than to miss drg ones (5 dps vs 35).

But yeah keep telling yourself you have hard jobs and work as hard as other melee. There there. Just don't go switch it up guys -- the reality check might be brutal.

Why do any of you think. mnk is hard?

Locking onto your target, hitting left or right and a attack button is not hard....


Not, being heavily punished for it either.. Peoples delusion of mnks difficulty is getting very irritating to see over and over. It's becoming more and more apparent that this community has way too many crybabies.

They buffed GL for mnk before because people cried it was too hard to maintain.

They nerfed ninja because it was too easy.

They finally buffed drg and eased the positional requirements. Now people want the boosted damage nerfed.

I want mnk to be nerfed by shortening GL, it is now my goal to cry about it until it happens.

Half of you guys feel so fuckin entitled to do more damage than someone else because of your illusion of working harder to do what is quite simply, easy shit. All any of you think about is being at the top of a parse and who you feel you should be out damaging. Get over yourselves.

None of the melee classes are hard. Mnk can execute their positionals from anywhere and only suffer a potency loss. Nin, by and large has almost no positionals (offset by mudras). Why should drg continue to be the only class so heavily punished my missing their KEY positional attacks? Or be unable to get the benefit from them at all?

Not even a full day and a thread like this already up?!

How about SE make every positional on every class mandatory or you get 0 damage from it at all. That should make everything fair between all the melee classes right? No one could possibly complain then, right? RIGHT?

Jeezus

i don't know why any dragoon would complain about nin being op before this nerf, i certainly didn't, and i see the nerf, as minor as it may be, to be completely unnecessary.

I do remember seeing threads started by monks saying that ninja's were op for the amount of effort the job required, which again, was something i didn't agree with. Ninja was fine before the nerf, if anything what needed to be looked at was the lag affecting mudra inputs. It still needs to be looked at.

The buffs to dragoon are amazing. people whining about it now making drg easymode are forgetting that the class was complete dogshit before when compared to nin or monk; as it is now, it seems dragoon will be able to compete with monk in terms of dps output, whilst still lacking the amazing raid utility that a monk brings. And they will still have to hit positionals to maximise their dps output; granted, these requirements are not nearly as numerous or demanding of attention as those for a monk, but again, monk's have raid utility. dragoons still don't.

its just that dragoons can now pull their weight compared to ninjas and monks (at least in regards to numbers), not face absurd punishment for a missed positional or die because their mdef is dogshit. Before this patch, there was no reason why you would bring a dragoon over a ninja or monk; they were being denied places in pf groups. People that had mained drg since launch were switching to monk or ninja so they wouldn't hold back their static.

Now dragoons have competitive dps and are actually legitimately viable for endgame, and monks whine?

I didn't see any monks complaining about how difficult their rotation was before this patch. A patch which has not changed monk at all. If you play monk as well as it can be played, you will still in all likelihood be the top dps.

So why are people whining?

This is hilarious, all the complaints Im reading about the drg buff are from Nins and Mnks. Dear Nins & Mnks, dont worry about your position in statics as long as you are proficient at your job you wont lose it. It now feels more balanced that equally skilled melee are all viable in a raid group. Before an equally skilled drg could not come close to the dps of an equally skilled nin or mnk.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

In terms of a complete stand still fight:

MNK > DRG > NIN

MNK has the most positionals, but honestly it works like any other job where things just flow once you play it enough. DRG has a long rotation but you eventually get to the point where you don't even need to think about it. The differences are pretty minor, the main thing is that MNK has to move a lot so that puts it slightly ahead of DRG. DRG and MNK even out by the long rotation vs Mudras (same amount of muscle memory required), but DRG still has 2 positionals he needs to hit for max DPS so DRG pulls ahead by a hair.

On a random boss spinning fight/bad tank scenario:

MNK > DRG > NIN

Before it would be DRG > MNK, but now that positionals aren't required and DRGs only suffer a minor DPS loss from not hitting them, MNK remains harder due to constant positional loss. NIN has one positional so... yea.

Point is, none of them are really that demanding, though before now missing a positional as DRG meant more than it did for a MNK.

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I've never played dragoon and i probably never will, but as mnk vs nin, i think that once you have learn how they both work, mnk is easier to play on a complete stand still fight where nin is still difficult as you don't have a choregraphy to execute but more of a freestyle, sometime i even forget to check if my mudras are up as i'm already on DoT/debuff (i don't trust war that say it'll will keep the debuff up... half the time...) tracking.

As a mnk, you keep everything up as long as you keep going your rotation.
As nin, you keep everything up as long as you are aware of what need to be reapplied.

also, going between back and rear isn't difficult at all, just stand at the edge of both and you probably wont move to much.

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

I was wondering how long it took for people to start crying. DRG should be the highest DPS anyway for it has the least utility. Although the buff for BRD is pretty good, but that's about it. You don't even know how this translates into DPS in the first place? Things remain the same expect for the positionals.
It's also so stupid to claim that DRG is the easiest to play. No it isn't. MNK is easy as fuck compared to DRG especially considering the margin of error.

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i think with it being the melee deeps with chain/heavy armor it should be a little below the other 2, not too much, but enough to make us think: "hmmm, safer and slightly weaker or strong and on the floor"(as others put)

though i equally agree that the guy/girl with the giant spear should outperform all but BLM

I for one don't think that DPS ranking should necessarily come from which job is "more complex". I think it should be based on what they bring to the table. NIN's have an insane amount of utility, MNKs have a fair amount. DRGs have minimal raid utility. I also dislike that casters are typically lower because they're considered "easier" because their damage isn't really effected by their distance from the boss. I personally dislike playing melee classes.

Again, it's a hair width of difficulty between each job, so if it's NIN > MNK > DRG or MNK > NIN > DRG or whatever it doesn't really matter. They're all pretty easy so arguing which is more difficult is trivial at best. DRG no longer has positional requirements and can do more DPS - does it really matter to NIN and MNK? Really, does it? NIN still has utility in the form of Goad, a silence or a stun (DRG lacks the former), and a slashing debuff if needed. NIN also has TA which I assume will scale better than Disembowel as people get better gear (could be wrong, just seems like it would). All of them are relatively equal in terms of DPS, and DRG still even lacks group utility. None of them are in a place where they need a buff or a nerf anymore, they're all completely viable.

I think a nice change would have been to make it so that if you miss the positional, you get a huge potency drop as punishment. That would give you a lot more incentive to actually land them, rather than what we see now which is largely "you can miss it and retain most of your DPS"..

No, because you'll stick get animation locked, and die. :D

In all seriousness, Ninja and Summoner are the two most complicated DPS jobs to play. Monk and Dragoons are on par in terms of difficulty. Monks are still top dps anyways. Not by much, but a good enough margin. You still need to hit Chaos Thrust from the back for extra potency, as well as Heavy Thrust from the flank for extra potency. So its similar to Monk, in terms of positionals, to be able to maintain their combos. Monks can be out of position and still maintain their combo and stacks if they keep going. They'll just be losing out on that extra deeps, which is what Dragoon is like now.

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Originally Posted by Mibhas

I think a nice change would have been to make it so that if you miss the positional, you get a huge potency drop as punishment. That would give you a lot more incentive to actually land them, rather than what we see now which is largely "you can miss it and retain most of your DPS"..

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if you miss hitting HT from the flank, the attack does 100 instead of 170. that is a drop of over 40%.

When you say they should get a huge potency drop, what exactly are you looking for?

The idea that you should be punished for not being able to hit positionals in a game that has rng mechanics instead of being rewarded for hitting them is beyond retarded.

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Originally Posted by beowulf81

if you miss hitting HT from the flank, the attack does 100 instead of 170. that is a drop of over 40%.

When you say they should get a huge potency drop, what exactly are you looking for?

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Shhhh, some people can't math.

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Originally Posted by Danbo05

Monks are still top dps anyways. Not by much, but a good enough margin.

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Sorry to disappoint you but with this patch Dragoons gained roughly 10% of their DPS, which actually puts them quite in the lead as top DPS (even more if you consider the Disembowel buff to Bards).

To be fair, I was just in a dungeon with a DRG on my NIN in qarm HM, in that one the only somewhat fair comparison to see how hate is dealt is with the final boss.

Not taking elusive jump into account cause I honestly didn't hear it go off that often but I managed to keep my hate higher then them through the entirety of the fight I'd say mine was a bit over 50% of the white bar while they might of been around 40-50.

Taking a second look at the changes to DRG I do think some people take for granted what they actually did to DRG.

Life Surge can be used 40 seconds earlier, this means compared to the 90 and now it's 50 you have an extra Life Surge to keep in mind if you are trying to be as efficient as possible.

Same case with Jump, 40 to 30, that's 1 extra Jump in a 120 second period.

The changes to DRG define them as an empowering/time based instant job now with less focus on directions.

While NIN have jutsu and quite honestly all we really need to know is 3-4 and quite honestly they aren't hard to remember now messup on aside from latency because there are always 2 ways to fire them off. Say you want thunder, ten/chi jin/chi, quite honestly NIN is easy to remember, Ration=2 step, remember ends in chi, Katon=2 step, remember ends in Ten
Suiton=3 step, end in Jin
Hoton=3 step, end in Ten
Doton=3 step, end in Chi

*never repeat a hand sign and you're good to go.

Suiton=Trick attack, Hoton=att speed, Doton=aoe DoT, Raiton=single target, Katon=aoe dmg

Our perk is we have a stance that just gives us 20%, set and forget, DRG on the otherhand they have to upkeep it with their abilities and use TP to keep their dmg maximized.

NIN's process of power boost, Set and forget stance (20% increase to physical dmg), Dance Edge combo (10% lower slash resist 20 seconds) . When possible trick attack, then combo it with blood bath/infernal release when possible. Apply 2 step DoT Shadow Fang and Mutilate, in between all that use jutsu when possible.

DRG's prcoess of power is a bit something like this. Heavy Thrust (20 second window of 15% dmg increase), Impulse-Disembowl(30 second of 10% lower pierce resist)-follow up with chaos thrust (from behind 250 potency + 35 Dot for 30 seconds)

DRG has a 3 step DoT that they have to combo, the DoT will always apply but that 50 potency boost can make a big dif in dmg potency overall.

Heavy Thrust has a 70 dif in potency if done right, and it won't combo to the AOE attack if you don't strike from the right position but it is negligible since it is just a combo for an AOE and the 15% dmg increase for 20 seconds does make up for that potential loss of 70. However with that in mind if you were to have blood bath/infernal you would want to make sure you get Hevay Thrust and Chaos Thrust max potency.

Then there is also the case of Jump, you now have 4 Jumps instead of 3 Jumps in the same time frame. And Life surge pretty much for an extra 10 seconds added you now use it 2 times in that time frame.

DRG then also has Jump + Power Surge and this is honestly where the changes to jump shine. Power Surge + Jump, Jump, Power Surge + Jump, Jump, the process of using power Surge is now more organic because with that 20 second difference it use to be a bit more troublesome to execute the combo properly. Power Surge + Jump, Jump, Power Surge active for last 20 seconds because you would rather use it on Jump then Spineshatter Dive moreso because Spineshatter dive can stun a target and in a good handful of boss fights you don't want melee to use their stun moves on the target.

So honestly I don't think people are gonna take quick notice of it til they actually play DRG more but it is a lot more paying attention to when instant abilities are active in place of the old directional concept.

Moreover the huge issue with the way the old positionals were set is because they were openers, a DRG was pretty much like starting a stalled car, If the target moves and if you miss your combo of Impulse, you gotta do it again, if you used heavy before going for impulse you now lost 2.5 seconds from your att boost in order to try impulse again.

The way it goes now is that it rewards you for finishing your combo properly and empowers your AOE attack if you need it. That's the new dynamic for DRG positionals but the main gimmick for DRG now is when to time Life Surge and keeping up witha similar NIN rotation in the vain of Power SUrge + Jump. Since to get the most out of that 300/200 30 second potency attack without losing on to much time you gotta activate them twice every minute.

NIN has raiton, 2 step, every 20 seconds, sometimes Hoton instead and sometimes Suiton instead, maybe Doton for DoT AOE adds and maybe Katon for a quick finish for low HP AOE adds that would not survive the Doton DoT.

But keep this in mind, Raiton=360 potency, Katon 180, Katon an AOE is only 20 weaker than a Jump, while yes DRG has two AOE a 150 and a 170 linear they cost TP to use and can burn them out quickly if they use it to many times.

Honestly I think they did a good job adjusting DRG, they didn't do to little and it looks like they made just the right balance to shift focus on their play-style from positional to active abilities.

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Originally Posted by Mibhas

I think a nice change would have been to make it so that if you miss the positional, you get a huge potency drop as punishment. That would give you a lot more incentive to actually land them, rather than what we see now which is largely "you can miss it and retain most of yourDPS"..

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Totally agree with that. They could also have increased the number of positionnal -- for example ID did not have to lose it, just allow to still combo from it.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Again, it's a hair width of difficulty between each job, so if it's NIN > MNK > DRG or MNK > NIN > DRG or whatever it doesn't really matter. They're all pretty easy so arguing which is more difficult is trivial at best. DRG no longer has positional requirements and can do more DPS - does it really matter to NIN and MNK? Really, does it? NIN still has utility in the form of Goad, a silence or a stun (DRG lacks the former), and a slashing debuff if needed. NIN also has TA which I assume will scale better than Disembowel as people get better gear (could be wrong, just seems like it would). All of them are relatively equal in terms of DPS, and DRG still even lacks group utility. None of them are in a place where they need a buff or a nerf anymore, they're all completely viable.

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Nonsense. They are not "easy". When doing challenging content, each thing you have to keep remembering and doing / keeping up adds up. As always, juggling with 3 balls is not that hard, nor is singing, but doing both at once is much much harder than the sum of its parts. Keeping up dots is easy. Positionnal are easy. Mechanics are easy. Keeping up dots while hitting all positionnal while doing all mechanics ? Much much much harder.

And yeah it does matter because no one cares when you learned a fight from A to Z and can do it blindfolded. During progression you WILL make mistakes, and at equal skill a drg will do less than a mnk or a nin, because they just have less to deal with. Period. And if it gets too much thing at once, they know they can just forget about the positionnals altogether and focus only for a while on mechanics and dots/buffs, and they will maintain 99% of their dps. A mnk or nin that does that drops to 85-80% of his dps. That's not negligible.

Before starting, I want to say that I am SCH main so I don't believe I am biased.

DRG needed a buff, this much is certain. The buff it got, honestly, is NOT too much - all things considered.

Here is how I see things:

DRG: High and steady DPS due to increases in potency and less fuck-ups on positional requirements. Still the least utility overall. All they do is LITERALLY just DPS. There is nothing else in this job.
MNK: Potential top dps IF PLAYED CORRECTLY ALL THE TIME. Dps loss is steeper than DRG in case of the player messing up (positionals, losing GL, etc). Arguably the most useful melee DPS in terms of utility. This means that, even if the MNK fucks up and ends up doing less DPS than DRG, it still brings WAY more utility than the Kain wannabees.
NIN: Somewhere inbetween. More utility than DRG but less than MNK. Before the patch it was ahead of DRG in terms of dps, but with DRG buffed the earlier NIN (unnerfed) would have been quite similar, and balanced considering they bring a bit more utility.

So, all in all, I believe that having buffed DRG to let it cover the role of "raw, stable melee DPS with little utility", there was no need to nerf NIN, at all.

Of course FCoB will tell, and I am sure that in the following weeks these boards will be full of debating.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Absolute truth

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This man gets it.

*respectful nod*

Is this happening? Monks who bring so much utility and top DPS are seriously complaining? The Mantra, and INT Debuff is not enough?! I don't think Ninjas needed a hit with the nerf bat but they still have a party wide damage increase over just the Bard. This has to be a joke, Dragoons have nothing much going for them aside from flat out damage, I don't see the problem of them standing equally or above other melee jobs. Months of being a joke or denied for Dragoons, now they receive much needed attention and everyone goes nuts, how fickle this community is.

In the notes Chaos Trust says to be from Behind, but in game it says Flank :|

My DRG is not lvl 50, could someone confirm??
thanks :v

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

In the notes Chaos Trust says to be from Behind, but in game it says Flank :|

My DRG is not lvl 50, could someone confirm??
thanks :v

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It's behind, the tooltip is incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

In the notes Chaos Trust says to be from Behind, but in game it says Flank :|

My DRG is not lvl 50, could someone confirm??
thanks :v

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It's Rear.

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Originally Posted by Airget

SNIP

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Do you main DRG or no? Because you pretty much gave a 100% correct answer and you understand the new fluidity of the Dragoon very well. I to, do not believe many Dragoons will pick up on the new jumps. Also, PS + IR Share the same cooldown. So if you open up in a full burst using SP + IR + Jump relatively close together, you'll always be popping all 3 very closely.

Ok let me get this straight. OP, you're complaining because Dragoon does more damage now? Because they're creeping up closer to monk's DPS output? Because they aren't the last place laughing stock of the game? And all you white knights are singing along, right?

Have any of you played Dragoon before this patch?

Can we (Dragoons) not have a single moment of happiness before you start in on us again? Please?

We want to be invited to the parties with the cool kids, too, you know.

If this buff to DRG means that there will be far fewer bad Dragoons, how is that a bad thing? Please stop whining and instead focus your attentions now on Summoners tiny MP reserve.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by RakaMaimhov

Ok let me get this straight.OP, you're complaining because Dragoon does more damage now? Because they're creeping up closer to monk's DPS output? Because they aren't the last place laughing stock of the game? And all you white knights are singing along, right?

Have any of you played Dragoon before this patch?

Can we (Dragoons) not have a single moment of happiness before you start in on us again? Please?

We want to be invited to the parties with the cool kids, too, you know.

If this buff to DRG means that there will be far fewer bad Dragoons, how is that a bad thing? Please stop whining and instead focus your attentions now on Summoners tiny MP reserve.

Thanks.

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Did you evenbothered reading my opening post ? i have said time and time again that

1) Drg buffs were more than deserved
2) Nin nerf were NOT
3) Drg positionnal removal makes dragoon the easiest to play of the 3 melee by far. Doesn't mean that they did not deserve the dmg boost anyway. Still a stupid move too.

Number 1 is great. Number 2 and 3 are not. But hey if you can't understand that, might explain how the new drg gameplay is challenging enough for you.

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Originally Posted by Casper

3) Drg positionnal removal makes dragoon the easiest to play of the 3 melee by far. Doesn't mean that they did not deserve the dmg boost anyway. Still a stupid move too.

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Dragoons who play the class by heart will still hit Heavy Thrust on the flank and Chaos Thrust at the rear. I don't understand what your gripe is about the positional requirements being eased a little bit to make it less punishing than what it was. Monks work this way and you're not calling them out for it.

I can definitely see that a beginner would be able to learn how to play Dragoon a lot quicker than Monk or Ninja now. It should be easy to do a good amount of DPS, even with mistakes being made.

But at the end of the day, expert Dragoons will still deal more damage than rookie Dragoons; the gaps just wont be as big as with some other classes.

If all 3 melee classes are played to their full potential, then it seems like its pretty balanced now. Dragoons can (probably) deal the highest damage but have little utility, Ninjas the lowest DPS but with high Utility, and Monks are somewhere in-between.

I can understand the frustration actually.

Before this patch, even if you played perfectly as a dragoon, you still couldn't match the dps output of a monk who made 2-3 mistakes. You'd finish a good 20-30 dps behind them, if you were lucky.

if you made 1-2 mistakes as a dragoon, you'd still parse noticeably lower than a monk who fluffed his rotation a half dozen times.

That resulted in mediocre monks parsing higher than exceptional, or close to exceptional, dragoons.

With this patch it appears as though dragoons aren't that far behind monks in terms of dps output. the gap is close enough for an exceptional dragoon to beat mediocre monks, to actually compete with exceptional monks instead of eating their dust, which is how it should be imo.

It stands to reason that mediocre monks won't like this, and so rather than get better at the job, which is still the top dps, still the best melee to have in endgame by a country mile, they are bawling their eyes out over it.

These goddamn millenials with their non-existent work ethic and ridiculous sense of entitlement....

There is so much confusion in this thread. DRG is only easier now if you have no interest in maximizing your DPS. If you want to maximize DPS, DRG is functionally identically to what it was pre-patch.

You still have to hit your heavy thrust from the side, and you still have to hit an ability from the back (swap ID for CT). If you think the job is easier, you're probably not the type of player who tries to hit their DPS ceiling.

Every single job is "easy" if you aren't looking to maximize DPS potential.

For christ sake, you really see no difference between a job that outputs 99% of its max output when played while ignoring all positionnal, and another that outputs 75% in the same situation ?

When it matters, people make mistakes, because shit happens. In that situation drg will just lose MUCH less than nin or mnk will. This is NOT balanced. You can not balance everything assuming no one makes any mistake and call it a day. I'm glad for the drg buff for their ceiling. But making their floor at 99% of the ceiling is not good balance, period.

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Originally Posted by Casper

3) Drg positionnal removal makes dragoon the easiest to play of the 3 melee by far. Doesn't mean that they did not deserve the dmg boost anyway. Still a stupid move too.

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So what if they are the easiest melee to play now? There will always be a hardest and an easiest. However, that is your opinion thats is the easiest. Some may say, for example, monk is easiest melee to play... it's all perspective.

My perspective is they didnt make the class easier, they made it more forgiving. They basically raised the floor for less skilled drgs, however top tier drgs will still require a lot of skill just like every other class.