Stoneskin II

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12-09-2014, 04:07 PM
RegnumMagik

So here let me break it down for you since clearly you're going nuts over this.

The forum ask for AOE stoneskin before pull because they got tired of single casting stoneskin over and over again.

They could of made it as a trait to allow stoneskin to be cast outside of battle as AOE, but instead they made a new spell for it.

It's not too far fetched to guess that it will be allow in battle in the future, just like how raise wasn't allow to be used in battle until you reach a certain level.

Now please, just stop.
12-09-2014, 04:07 PM
jlewiss

So you're complaining about a bonus skill you're getting not being useable in battle? That would essentially require them to add a new skill to every class. Leaving it to out-of-battle only situations makes it so it's not really adding an edge over scholar in terms of gameplay. Jesus you should have to past some kind of basic competency test before you can post on the forums.
12-09-2014, 04:07 PM
Corfish

As a NIN I can't use stealth while in combat, is that also a design flaw?
12-09-2014, 04:07 PM
Parodine

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

There is no advantage to having swiftsong in battle. There is an advantage to having stoneskin in battle. Swiftsong was designed to be used outside of battle only, not for pre-engagements like stoneskin 2. And considering they already gave us an aoe version of stoneskin in the past it just doesn't make sense that they would bring it bake the way they did. It's a slap in the face to people who play whm.

As a WHM main, I don't want AoE stoneskin during battle. Too overpowered.

Pre-enagement only prz.
12-09-2014, 04:07 PM
Airget

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keisatsu

Because it was never intended for that..at all..maybe in expansion they'll put a trait for this but again..for now..it was NEVER intended for that at all..they've stated this, it's no design flaw..

EDIT: You forgot Swiftsong.

Also Hide, and believe any NIN that would be a welcomed ability since you wouldn't need to use Suiton to use Sneak or Trick attack.

Quite honestly that's what you have to compare Stoneskin II to, Hide, because Hide is an ability that definitely would be welcomed to use during combat however Suiton becomes hide and in that same sense, Stoneskin II is hide and Stoneskin is Suiton.
12-09-2014, 04:08 PM
Keisatsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

There is no advantage to having swiftsong in battle. There is an advantage to having stoneskin in battle. Swiftsong was designed to be used outside of battle only, not for pre-engagements like stoneskin 2. And considering they already gave us an aoe version of stoneskin in the past it just doesn't make sense that they would bring it bake the way they did. It's a slap in the face to people who play whm.

There is plenty advantage to having Swiftsong in battle (Moving out of AoE's faster for the entire group?), and while there may be an advantage to having an AoE stoneskin in battle, they decided to make it different from 1.0 version and have just this version..THIS version is only use-able outside of combat, like Swiftsong
12-09-2014, 04:08 PM
Merylx

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

I don't think you understand what a design flaw is.

Oh the irony, I could say the same thing about you. Do you understand how broken content would be if you could AoE cast Stoneskin in battle? This isn't version 1.0, they got rid of that - they deleted it. Don't live in the past. This is a brand new game, and things are different now.
12-09-2014, 04:08 PM
NoloeTazier

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaedrianLiang

we had that in XIV 1.0. was called Sacred Prism. Was crazy awesome and sexy.

Loved it. AoE Stoneskin and Regen. Bard could also use it and Stoneskin everyone or Sanguine Rite (restored MP on being hit) sure it lacked the BLM trait that made it where spells wouldn't be interrupted but was still useful as a support.
12-09-2014, 04:08 PM
KrissKringle

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegnumMagik

So here let me break it down for you since clearly you're going nuts over this.

The forum ask for AOE stoneskin before pull because they got tired of single casting stoneskin over and over again.

They could of made it as a trait to allow stoneskin to be cast outside of battle as AOE, but instead they made a new spell for it.

It's not too far fetched to guess that it will be allow in battle in the future, just like how raise wasn't allow to be used in battle until you reach a certain level.

Now please, just stop.

You make an awful lot of assumptions. Please discontinue your rant.
12-09-2014, 04:10 PM
RegnumMagik

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

You make an awful lot of assumptions. Please discontinue your rant.

I made basically one assumption, the other ones are my supporting factors. Now, how is this a rant? I'm simply helping.

Now I understand who the real troll is.
12-09-2014, 04:10 PM
KrissKringle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parodine

As a WHM main, I don't want AoE stoneskin during battle. Too overpowered.

Pre-enagement only prz.

As a WHM I would love having an aoe ss that could be cast occasionally... Clearly there would have to be limitations... Just as there used to be when it was in the game. Go read up on what the game used to be..
12-09-2014, 04:11 PM
CUTS3R

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

It is the only ability/spell in the game that cannot be used by its main job/class in battle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keisatsu

You forgot Swiftsong.

And Hidden.
12-09-2014, 04:11 PM
Chihaya

OMG people can complain about anything.

A QoL spell was asked for by players that are banging their heads, trying to learn the raid, and wiping repeatedly - which the OP doesn't seem to raid much according to achievements

18% SS during battle would feel a bit too powerful unless it has insanely high MP cost- learn to dodge man.

and LOL swift song doesn't give combat advantage - it allows you to dodge shit easier if you can move faster, and it's a good thing that it isn't allowed in combat
12-09-2014, 04:11 PM
KrissKringle

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegnumMagik

I made basically one assumption, the other ones are my supporting factors. Now, how is this a rant? I'm simply helping.

Now I understand who the real troll is.

You are, please stop. Nobody wants a naysayer simply for the effort of naysaying.
12-09-2014, 04:12 PM
Keisatsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by CUTS3R

And Hidden.

Derp..forgot about Hide and I second Ninja.

Oh and if you'll complain about Stoneskin II, complain about Hide too please, it breaks on engagement when it should really break when you use a skill >:C
12-09-2014, 04:12 PM
KrissKringle

Quote:

Originally Posted by CUTS3R

And Hidden.

Too late, scroll back up and you will see I replied to that already. Swiftsong has nothing to do with battle, stoneskin does. Your argument is bunk.
12-09-2014, 04:12 PM
KaedrianLiang

SINGLE TARGET STONESKIN:
3sec (Cast time) X 8 (players in a full party) X 9001 (wipes) = 60 hours of casting stoneskin on the whole party.

STONESKIN II:
7 hours 30min.

EDIT: Also stoneskin should only be cast during battle to prevent death. (drgs and their ridiculously low magic defensse) Not to mitigate 18% health in raid damage. Doing the latter is a good way to go to MP 0.
12-09-2014, 04:12 PM
whoopeeragon

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

You are, please stop. Nobody wants a naysayer simply for the effort of naysaying.

Ironically, you're the one naysaying this one QoL skill for WHMs.
12-09-2014, 04:12 PM
Ashkendor

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

It is the only ability/spell in the game that cannot be used by its main job/class in battle. That is a design flaw.

No it isn't. Bards can't use Swiftsong in battle and Ninjas can't hide. >.>

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Too late, scroll back up and you will see I replied to that already. Swiftsong has nothing to do with battle, stoneskin does. Your argument is bunk.

I can think of a lot of situations where faster movement in a fight would be advantageous.
12-09-2014, 04:13 PM
KrissKringle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keisatsu

Derp..forgot about Hide and I second Ninja.

Oh and if you'll complain about Stoneskin II, complain about Hide too please, it breaks on engagement when it should really break when you use a skill >:C

Hide can be used in battle. Have you ever played ninja?
12-09-2014, 04:14 PM
Merylx

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

As a WHM I would love having an aoe ss that could be cast occasionally... Clearly there would have to be limitations... Just as there used to be when it was in the game. Go read up on what the game used to be..

Why should anyone read up on a game that no longer exists? I don't understand your argument.
12-09-2014, 04:14 PM
RegnumMagik

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

You are, please stop. Nobody wants a naysayer simply for the effort of naysaying.

Aren't you the naysayer doe? You're the one claiming what I said are just assumption, and refuse to believe.
12-09-2014, 04:14 PM
KrissKringle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashkendor

No it isn't. Bards can't use Swiftsong in battle and Ninjas can't hide. >.>

I can think of a lot of situations where faster movement in a fight would be advantageous.

And how about hide/sneak?

Please read the previous posts that already address this before commenting. Swiftsong is not meant to be used for any battle purpose which negates it's importance in this topic. Stoneskin is directly for battle use, along with sneak/hide which can also be used under certain circumstance during a fight. Please understand the game more.
12-09-2014, 04:15 PM
RegnumMagik

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Hide can be used in battle. Have you ever played ninja?

Okay, that sums it up.

Troll post, move along.
12-09-2014, 04:15 PM
Shougun

Out of curiosity why didn't they just make stoneskin (I) affect multiple members when out of combat, and only the target when within? I'm for QoL changes when they can fit the game image, but I don't think it was necessary to make it its own spell.

Maybe someone can give a good example why you would want it separate? (Out of combat means mana cost is a bit irrelevant).
12-09-2014, 04:15 PM
Keisatsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Hide can be used in battle. Have you ever played ninja?

Okay obvious troll is obvious now.

No, Suiton =/= Hide. Suiton does damage and gives a buff. Hide does no damage, can only be used outside of combat, and it slows you down..Suiton doesn't.

Please get your information correct before you try..eh nvm that's too much hope for nothing.
12-09-2014, 04:15 PM
KrissKringle

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegnumMagik

Aren't you the naysayer doe? You're the one claiming what I said are just assumption, and refuse to believe.

What is your argument then? It seems you were just telling people to stop because you didn't like the topic. NEXT ABSURD RESPONSE PLEASE.
12-09-2014, 04:16 PM
314159265358979323846264338327

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegnumMagik

But it's a battle class? Or do you consider that as a gathering class?

They gather the enmity of their enemies, yes.
12-09-2014, 04:16 PM
LaralnKornera

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

As a WHM I would love having an aoe ss that could be cast occasionally... Clearly there would have to be limitations... Just as there used to be when it was in the game. Go read up on what the game used to be..

Reread what you just typed. The core gameplay is completely different, an AOE stoneskin would be way too strong in the current game (ARR) it worked great in XI and 1.0 because the system allowed for such aoe abilities to exist without feeling to "OP" because of the slower paced battle systems. It seems as if you wanted something earlier than the expansion, sadly for you it won't happen. If Yoshi and the dev team gives us something in the exp, great! If the they don't whatever, i guess you just need to deal up and learn how to play WHM and utilize stoneskin efficiently rather than spamming it like an adlo.
12-09-2014, 04:16 PM
KrissKringle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keisatsu

Okay obvious troll is obvious now.

No, Suiton =/= Hide. Suiton does damage and gives a buff. Hide does no damage, can only be used outside of combat, and it slows you down..Suiton doesn't.

Please get your information correct before you try..eh nvm that's too much hope for nothing.

Hide is a skill that enables more damage from other skills. Please tell me more about how you know about the game. Your argument is bunk.
12-09-2014, 04:17 PM
NoloeTazier

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shougun

Out of curiosity why didn't they just make stoneskin (I) affect multiple members when out of combat, and only the target when within? I'm for QoL changes when they can fit the game image, but I don't didn't seem necessary to make it its own spell.

Maybe someone can give a good example why you would want it separate? (Out of combat means mana cost is a bit irrelevant).

Cause it's the way the armory/class system works. Very limited.
12-09-2014, 04:17 PM
whoopeeragon

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Swiftsong is not meant to be used for any battle purpose which negates it's importance in this topic.

And nor is Stoneskin II.

Quote:

Stoneskin is directly for battle use

Correct. Stoneskin II is not meant to be directly for battle use, but indirectly. Similar to how swiftsong enables you to get to your next set of trash mob or boss faster, Stoneskin II helps to start the fight with the boss faster.

Quote:

along with sneak/hide which can also be used under certain circumstance during a fight. Please understand the game more.

Hide cannot be used. That button is DISABLED in combat. Are you daft? Show me footage of you pressing the Hide button IN COMBAT, and we can talk. Note that as soon as your tank pulls a boss, you are instantly IN COMBAT because you get aggro. You are forced out of Hide. So you cannot even try to use the argument of a initial Hide -> Trick/Sneak Attack as justification.
12-09-2014, 04:18 PM
KrissKringle

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaralnKornera

Reread what you just typed. The core gameplay is completely different, an AOE stoneskin would be way too strong in the current game (ARR) it worked great in XI and 1.0 because the system allowed for such aoe abilities to exist without feeling to "OP" because of the slower paced battle systems. It seems as if you wanted something earlier than the expansion, sadly for you it won't happen. If Yoshi and the dev team gives us something in the exp, great! If the they don't whatever, i guess you just need to deal up and learn how to play WHM and utilize stoneskin efficiently rather than spamming it like an adlo.

And this is why you aren't a program designer. You lack the fundamental understand to think beyond what the developers have told you. Please, keep reiterating what they have stated to seem like you make sense. My argument is simply that it was a crappy call by the devs.
12-09-2014, 04:18 PM
Mandze

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

We still gotta wait for skills/pot cooldowns. :( A good QoL thing would be to reset the cds after a wipe in raid content...

God yes, this, a thousand times. I have plenty of time to cast Stoneskin on everybody while waiting for the DPS to get their damn CDs back after every wipe while working on coil progression.
12-09-2014, 04:19 PM
Keisatsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Hide is a skill that enables more damage from other skills. Please tell me more about how you know about the game. Your argument is bunk.

Show me a screenshot of being able to use it in combat..can you? Or better yet, a video..Please? For the ignorant me? Could you please do that so I can submit to your ever so intelligent post?..I'll be waiting ^.^
12-09-2014, 04:19 PM
Ashkendor

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Please read the previous posts that already address this before commenting. Swiftsong is not meant to be used for any battle purpose which negates it's importance in this topic. Stoneskin is directly for battle use, along with sneak/hide which can also be used under certain circumstance during a fight. Please understand the game more.

http://puu.sh/dneit/f42dd2fd13.png

I thought "cannot be used in combat" was pretty clear but I guess not. Regarding Swiftsong, If you can't see the strategic advantage of faster movement in battle, I'm not really sure what to tell you.

The funny part is, you're the one telling me to "understand the game more".

I for one think the addition of Stoneskin II is a great QoL improvement.
12-09-2014, 04:19 PM
KrissKringle

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

And nor is Stoneskin II.

Correct. Stoneskin II is not meant to be directly for battle use, but indirectly. Similar to how swiftsong enables you to get to your next set of trash mob or boss faster, Stoneskin II helps to start the fight with the boss faster.

Hide cannot be used. That button is DISABLED in combat. Are you daft? Show me footage of you pressing the Hide button IN COMBAT, and we can talk.

Go to youtube and you will find plenty. I watch my partner do it all the time, because he DOES know how to play ninja.
12-09-2014, 04:19 PM
OneWingedSora

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...vement/kind/1/
12-09-2014, 04:20 PM
Merylx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashkendor

http://puu.sh/dneit/f42dd2fd13.png

I thought "cannot be used in combat" was pretty clear but I guess not. Regarding Swiftsong, If you can't see the strategic advantage of faster movement in battle, I'm not really sure what to tell you.

The funny part is, you're the one telling me to "understand the game more".

They're clearly trolling now. I'm amused by it all.
12-09-2014, 04:20 PM
Chihaya

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Please understand the game more.

LOL - trolled

And no Hide cannot be used during combat, if you have aggro on any mob or come into proximity of any boss, you cannot use hide.
As much as I also loved some aspect of 1.xx, this isn't 1.xx anymore.

Stop trying to remove a QoL spell for raiders, it serves a purpose for them.

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