4 guildleves in less than 1 hour=1/3rd of the way from 49-50?

I don't get the argument here. What's to stop a party from running some leves for an hour?

To me, parties have the edge still. Do eight leves for an hour, then go grind for an hour.

So what if a solo player can match the SP of a party for an hour once every 36 hours? There's still about 160-some hours in a given week for parties to out-shine a solo player.

If it's a matter of not wanting to spend too much time in the game, well, parties are for an extended duration, solo is for a quick in and out. There's has to be some lines drawn for a developer to create content with purpose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ferth

I just can't agree that casual gameplay has to be this easy.

Leves have a timer of 30 minutes. How many people spend even close to that amount of time on any leve that doesn't require a leve mob to drop a necrologos page?

When a leve mob can be 7 ranks higher than a player and hit that same player for 17 damage a hit, there is something wrong. When a player can fight 3 leve mobs all 7 ranks higher than the player and not have to use some form of CC or cure, there is something wrong...

A non-leve mob that is rank 27 would hit for atleast 10 times the damage those mobs were hitting me for.

Leves are dumbed down too much... it's not casual... it's special ed.

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You're mistaking difficulty with casual play.

Casual players do not mean they are bad players, the problem is Final Fantasy suffers from some issues:

#1. Class abilities don't interact with other abilities from the same class in most cases, and worse yet, most crowd control abilities have little effect.

#2. Monsters don't have enough unique abilities, they die too fast, and leve monsters are weak.

The problems you list are just because this game never even got close to being half way finished, and my list also applies.

Tedium =! Difficulty and Casual =! bad

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

I don't get the argument here. What's to stop a party from running some leves for an hour?

To me, parties have the edge still. Do eight leves for an hour, then go grind for an hour.

So what if a solo player can match the SP of a party for an hour once every 36 hours? There's still about 160-some hours in a given week for parties to out-shine a solo player.

If it's a matter of not wanting to spend too much time in the game, well, parties are for an extended duration, solo is for a quick in and out. There's has to be some lines drawn for a developer to create content with purpose.

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What's to stop a party from running leves for an hour? Two things:

1. All people in the party would have to have guildleves available or they are leeching.
2. They would only benefit more than someone doing it solo if they could link them (or do them 2-8 times longer at a slower rate)

But I don't want to do levelinking groups again, those were terrible. As party content went they were the worst I've ever experienced in an MMO (along with behests). Solo guildleves are equally as bad unless you for some silly reason try to challenge yourself while unfortunately handicapping your SP gain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Murugan

If this is how shallow they want the leveling curve to be fine... but at least encourage people to seek a challenge.

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I can get SP far faster in a party than I can in leves considering the time restraint on leves. I don't see the problem here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I can get SP far faster in a party than I can in leves considering the time restraint on leves. I don't see the problem here.

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I can get more XP than you if I kill Marmots and Coblyns outside of Ul'dah for the next 3 years. Obviously if you do anything longer it will even out eventually. Grouping or doing anything more challenging than guildleves should be a viable option for more casual players too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Murugan

All people in the party would have to have guildleves available or they are leeching.

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Perhaps under the old system where failing leves was "ideal." But now players are rewarded for success. In this system, I'd much rather see eight people with eight different leves so there's no overlap

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Murugan

They would only benefit more than someone doing it solo if they could link them (or do them 2-8 times longer at a slower rate)

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Leve rewards are based on difficulty and time. A full party doing five star leves could easily out-pace a soloer. Especially if they have some varied leves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Murugan

But I don't want to do levelinking groups again, those were terrible. As party content went they were the worst I've ever experienced in an MMO (along with behests). Solo guildleves are equally as bad unless you for some silly reason try to challenge yourself while unfortunately handicapping your SP gain.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Murugan

I don't want to

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Well, a lot of people do.

Personally, I remember the days of soloing for single digit in XI because my preferred job wasn't the flavor of the month. I don't want to spend a year getting to cap. Leveling is tedious and MMO devs know that they need some other way than a monotonous grind to keep subscriptions up.

Not having something similar to Grounds/Fields of Valor would be a huge step backward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

You're mistaking difficulty with casual play.

Casual players do not mean they are bad players, the problem is Final Fantasy suffers from some issues:

#1. Class abilities don't interact with other abilities from the same class in most cases, and worse yet, most crowd control abilities have little effect.

#2. Monsters don't have enough unique abilities, they die too fast, and leve monsters are weak.

The problems you list are just because this game never even got close to being half way finished, and my list also applies.

Tedium =! Difficulty and Casual =! bad

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I don't think you've understood my point. I have nothing against the inclusion of Casual friendly options. I am not confusing casual with difficulty either. Nor do I think Casual players are somehow less able than those who are more hardcore...

But right now the Casual aspects of this game are dumbed down to an almost insulting degree.

Leves don't provide any challenge unless the players themselves seek to add challenge to them and the rewards for imposing the challenge is not increased at an even rate with the difficulty.

The point is though that party grinding is much more viable than it used to be and will only become better as was stated earlier in the thread with apparent 1.2 changes.

Leves are viable, especially for those with little time.

Party grinding is also viable, for those who have access to groups more easily and/or more time.

Sorry I think I got you confused with previous posts from another person, so just ignore the top line please.

Wow. You guys completely ignored my statement.

Did it EVER occur to any of you that this faster progression is meant to account for the advent of a possible level cap raise?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Murugan

So I got some guildleves to test them out after the patch. 2 in Halatali, and 2 in Broken Water. I equip 2 skills, a basic attack and an aoe. I proceed to do them all on 3 stars with guardian's aspect, and get 35k xp in less than an hour.

That is more xp than most get in even a very good XP party, and all I had to do was use 2 skills. It posed no challenge at all, and when I tried 4 stars on the 5th I found I got less XP because of how the system rewards speed (seems imbalanced with difficulty settings). I know that XP chains will help balance this, but come on why so heavily encourage everyone regardless of whether they like to(or have to) play solo to do this?

I thought guildleves were no longer a (the) central feature of this game... hurry up and fix partying so I don't have to do this crap anymore.

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You are just crying for the sake of crying now. Just stop that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Wow. You guys completely ignored my statement.

Did it EVER occur to any of you that this faster progression is meant to account for the advent of a possible level cap raise?

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I don't see a point for a level cap raise right now. Before raising a level cap you want to make sure there is sufficient content at all level ranges, and there isn't right now, so raising the cap is pointless because they don't have content to support the current levels.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Wow. You guys completely ignored my statement.

Did it EVER occur to any of you that this faster progression is meant to account for the advent of a possible level cap raise?

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Muru did respond to your statement. His reply detailed that higher ranked leves give more sp bonus when you finish.

Meaning that as they come out with higher ranks they will presumably come out with higher ranked levequests that provide a greater bonus upon completion.

They don't need to increase sp bonus on mindlessly easy leves now to prepare for a change they haven't even announced yet.

baaaaaaww casual players are ruining my authentic role playing experience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Triplicus

baaaaaaww casual players are ruining my authentic role playing experience.

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It has nothing do with that, it has everything to do with there currently be no reward to play challenging or group leveling content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Murugan

I can get more XP than you if I kill Marmots and Coblyns outside of Ul'dah for the next 3 years. Obviously if you do anything longer it will even out eventually.

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Lets say I have a 8 hour period to play the game.

I can.

A: Every 36 hours get 40kish~ SP doing all 8 of my leves solo within a few hour barring I have anima to quickly move around. Or just do 6 if Anima and travel is an issue.

B: Do my 3-6 leves solo in one area "Uldah is great for this due to the rather short distance from Halitali to Broken water. and afterwards grind with my friends?

I don't see how the person doing option A is going to get ahead of me in any way/shape/form. Having multiple ways to gain SP is a great thing, Player A could have instead of maximizing SP gain grouped and got decent SP and a challenge anyways. I'm not saying things are perfectly balanced.

I personally think leveling is a tad too fast either way around, but a hardcore player will always be ahead of the casual player becasue they have the time/effort to put into not only maximizing SP gain, but using all avenues to obtain it quickly as possible.

No I don't think grind groups should get massive SP boosts, I personally think Leves may need a bit of scaling back though not in SP gained but perhaps time you can do them. Make it every 2 days and that would be fine with me. Although this game was not made 100% for me so I don't expect them to change that.

As long as I can get decent SP while partying I have no complaints about the Lev system, I'll just leverage it within my own playstyle as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Grouping or doing anything more challenging than guildleves should be a viable option for more casual players too.

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It is a viable option to party as a more casual player, but it's challenging to find/create/fight with a group of people instead of soloing your leves for decent SP.

So...you do have more challenging and viable options, just because you can't find/make a party doesn't mean it isn't viable.

Because I really want to spend all day, every day, grinding.

/sarcasm

QQ less. Grinding will be fixed with chains (and minor SP increases probably). But there has to be equivalent content for solo players to level off of. Trivial-and-meaningless-tasks (My friends and my long word for leves) are it.

On a side note. I quite enjoyed duoing Hala/BW leves on 5 star from 48-50 in 3 days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aistaraina

Because I really want to spend all day, every day, grinding.

/sarcasm

QQ less. Grinding will be fixed with chains (and minor SP increases probably). But there has to be equivalent content for solo players to level off of. Trivial-and-meaningless-tasks (My friends and my long word for leves) are it.

On a side note. I quite enjoyed duoing Hala/BW leves on 5 star from 48-50 in 3 days.

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I have to say a Duoing partner makes things so much better. But I find that for some reason Limsa leves give more SP than Thanalan. I usually get 3.9k for Thanalan and 4.5k for Limsa.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

this and

ive been hoping R50 leves for months now. im actually kind of surprised they havent implemented this yet.
also, modern games use a plethora of dungeons as a means of grouping for bonus XP/loot not party camping. perhaps this is going to be the games future options to level faster than soloing.

one thing i think they need to fix is the XP LOSS for fighting multiple mobs at once. we have aoe abilities, why shouldnt we be able to aoe them without an XP minus factor?

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I think the reason we are not getting exp from multiple mobs so people cant just aoe spam and get mass exp and it will prevent future Astral Burn style parties which was a big start in making FFXI go down hill. I do wish we had more of a chance to use our AoE abilities though, only time you seem to get to use them is in leves because they spawn mobs in groups. It must be frustrating for classes like Marauder.

at Rank 46-47 so far on my MRD I have been able to 5 star all R40 leves. getting 150-250 SP per mob and getting no less then a 6k bonus at the end.

IMO, the leves are still very good just gotta do them a bit differently. Initial SP will suck badly if do them at the same stars we use to do them on. The only thing that is lower now is the SP on what use to be the fail leves(and rightfully so). You can get an easy 5k bonus handed to you now for doing a crap leve that we use to struggle to get a total of 2k on before.

Quote:

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I have to say a Duoing partner makes things so much better. But I find that for some reason Limsa leves give more SP than Thanalan. I usually get 3.9k for Thanalan and 4.5k for Limsa.

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You know what, I was just saying the same to people in my LS. been doing LL leves mostly, getting really good bonuses. Did some Uldah leves today and the bonuses were about 3k smaller on every single leve. Maybe its to encourage people to leave Uldah?

Guildleves are fine... they are moving the focus away from leves for groups as the main way to rank up and leaving them for players that want to gain some SP on their classes while soloing. I don't get the problem?
I recently wanted to get my CON from 43 to 45 and was unable (due to RL) to group with other LS members in a grind party etc. So over the course of 2-3 resets I was able to solo rank 40 leves (I personally preferred doing Gridania for this as our group used to do Broken Water and Halitali a lot ><), do a few Behests when they were available and get my CON to 45.

I'm happy, and if I had the time to grind in a group on raptors or something then I would have done this instead but I didn't. I'm not hurting anyone's gaming experience by spending a couple of days soloing my own leves so I really don't understand the QQ? Behest SP kinda sucked though- even for a "neglected" area I was only getting ~3.5K unless they have changed this in the new patch already.

Choices and options are good! ^^

I think it works pretty well as it is. Leves are on a 36-hour reset timer, which means you can't even do that once a day. Not only that, but Guardian's Favor replenishes at an even slower rate, so you can't do as well as you did even that often.

A party might get less in that time spent, but you'll easily be spending three times as much time in one. If you want (once people figure out how to actually get them started with any decent regularity) you can join more than one in a day, and several within that same 36-hour period, and again that's not counting the longer reset on Favor. If you really did get a third of a rank every 36 hours it would still take you some seven months to get to 50.

shame on people who want other people to play their way only... those people are selfish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

I don't see a point for a level cap raise right now. Before raising a level cap you want to make sure there is sufficient content at all level ranges, and there isn't right now, so raising the cap is pointless because they don't have content to support the current levels.

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I do agree, however! What if they say raised the cap to 55 in 1.2 and put some content at the cap, thus fostering people to level up via the new party play system? An attempt to get us to use the system? Doubtful I know but I am just thinking out loud. When/if they revamp the party search functionality etc they will need to make a BIG song and dance about it to break the current LS only partying and raising the cap would certainly be a good way of doing this I think.

Also I agree some leves are stupidly easy, me and my brother (23ARC and 25PUG at the time) were killing 4 sets of 3xSquirrels at Rank 30-34 on 4 star difficulty within 10mins. This leve is so easy in fact that I could do 4 star on my own (I actually solo'd the first set before he arrived). That is not challenging nor rewarding.

With that said I think a high amount of SP in a short time frame is fine if it's only every 36 hours. I understand the OP point that he shouldn't feel the need to 'have' to do leves even if he can do them and then go party however, catering to casual/solo players will always mean this is the case. A large amount in a short time, but capped on how often you can do them; this is the only way I can think of to cater to the solo/casual player as it stands.

It's easy for someone to begrudge the system, but I would be more interested to hear some alternatives than just saying it's wrong.

The ease of the system makes it wrong. That doesn't mean i think leves should be removed entirely... but for starters leve mobs should have the same basic defense, hp, and attack ratings as non-leve mobs of the same rank.

Increasing leve difficulty should raise the rank of the mobs, and after a certain point, 3+stars maybe, increase the party size and number of mobs per leve. and the difficulty rating should have a pronounced effect on the actual difficulty of the leve(no one should be able to solo a 5 star leve if they are within 5 ranks of the required rank on a leve,) as well as the bonus sp received at the end of the leve. One star being on par with someone at the bare minimum for a leve, 5 stars being on par with a party 3-5 ranks higher than the required rank for a leve.


The level range for leves needs to be improved, crafting leves progress every 5 ranks, combat leves should too. They can use the same camps they have now, just move some rank 20 leves into a rank 15 category, some 30s into a 25, some 40s into a 35, and then add 45 and 50 leves. each new tier becoming available within 5 ranks of the required rank.

I am all for casual content... but I will say it again and again, casual does not mean easy.

You got 36k in less than an hour but now you have to wait 36hrs before you can do it again, so your actual sp/hour is 1k. Banging!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Murugan

No I'm saying that people shouldn't have to devote 8 hours a day to grinding in order to compete with those who like to level through guildleves, because I don't like to do guildleves. A lot of people don't like to do guildleves, or sidequests for that matter. So your answer to us is "oh it's okay though, because you can grind for an unlimited amount of time so in the end it works itself out".

Well maybe there are some people out there who both like to group, and like to do things other than grind nonstop 24/7. Why should people who solo get to spend less time leveling than those who like to group? I don't see the need for such a severe handicap because some people can't be bothered to do things with others. Being antisocial doesn't seem like something we need to go out of our way to reward people for.

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I'm seriously starting to doubt your ability to understand anything at this point.

Do you honestly have trouble seeing obvious things this much, or do you just feel the need to troll people by twisting what they say and making it seem like you have a valid argument?

You do not need to grind 8 hours a day to keep up. If you actually read my post you will see that the 8 hour grind had a player go from 46-49. Compared to the 4 leves giving you 35k, that's something quite different.

You want 35k? Go grind an hour or two. you'll probably get more if you get the right camp and a competent bunch of people.

Also, grind groups do not need to compete with leve group sp. Everyone can do BOTH.

He who chooses to party grind will always get more sp than he who chooses to only do leves every reset. This is simple, obvious logic.

He who decides he will not do leves and will only do grinds is knowingly lowering his own sp gain.

Simple as that.

The only point I see you possibly making is that you do not want to do leves and would rather only do grind groups. However you know that people who do both will be rewarded significantly better than you, and you don't like this so Q.Q.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Murugan

So I got some guildleves to test them out after the patch. 2 in Halatali, and 2 in Broken Water. I equip 2 skills, a basic attack and an aoe. I proceed to do them all on 3 stars with guardian's aspect, and get 35k xp in less than an hour.

That is more xp than most get in even a very good XP party, and all I had to do was use 2 skills. It posed no challenge at all, and when I tried 4 stars on the 5th I found I got less XP because of how the system rewards speed (seems imbalanced with difficulty settings). I know that XP chains will help balance this, but come on why so heavily encourage everyone regardless of whether they like to(or have to) play solo to do this?

I thought guildleves were no longer a (the) central feature of this game... hurry up and fix partying so I don't have to do this crap anymore.

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Just a heads up op...but you do know they aren't finished with this game right? You know it's still f2p right...basically in beta...you do know this?

And just a heads up...the dev team already knows about the thing you are ranting about...give them time they are trying their best to get to it...seriously...

/facepalm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ferth

The ease of the system makes it wrong. That doesn't mean i think leves should be removed entirely... but for starters leve mobs should have the same basic defense, hp, and attack ratings as non-leve mobs of the same rank.

Increasing leve difficulty should raise the rank of the mobs, and after a certain point, 3+stars maybe, increase the party size and number of mobs per leve. and the difficulty rating should have a pronounced effect on the actual difficulty of the leve(no one should be able to solo a 5 star leve if they are within 5 ranks of the required rank on a leve,) as well as the bonus sp received at the end of the leve. One star being on par with someone at the bare minimum for a leve, 5 stars being on par with a party 3-5 ranks higher than the required rank for a leve.


The level range for leves needs to be improved, crafting leves progress every 5 ranks, combat leves should too. They can use the same camps they have now, just move some rank 20 leves into a rank 15 category, some 30s into a 25, some 40s into a 35, and then add 45 and 50 leves. each new tier becoming available within 5 ranks of the required rank.

I am all for casual content... but I will say it again and again, casual does not mean easy.

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Thing is about the leves is I've noticed they really havn't created a variety of leves nor do they have a system set in place that you speak of. If they are going to do leves, they should have a variety...

say you get X set of leves at R20-23...then here is this set for 24-27...then this set for 28-30.... just makes sense to me so those who do want a challenge and variety can have it.

I mean as much as I love duoing with just me and my husband...there have been many nights where he and I just want to bang our heads on a wall because of the stupid repetitive and monotony of the leves...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viion

You got 36k in less than an hour but now you have to wait 36hrs before you can do it again, so your actual sp/hour is 1k. Banging!

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But there are many more things to do and fight in between that 36 hours though. Before there wasn't.

what the hell is this thread even about?

hey guys...i did six r30 botany leves and got about 45k last night.

Hey! Go start your own thread, you hijacker!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scape

Hey! Go start your own thread, you hijacker!

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done. posted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scape

Hey! Go start your own thread, you hijacker!

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Ugh so it was your fault that thread appeared! lol ><

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scape

Hey! Go start your own thread, you hijacker!

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I say we tar and feather him....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Murugan

So I got some guildleves to test them out after the patch. 2 in Halatali, and 2 in Broken Water. I equip 2 skills, a basic attack and an aoe. I proceed to do them all on 3 stars with guardian's aspect, and get 35k xp in less than an hour.

That is more xp than most get in even a very good XP party, and all I had to do was use 2 skills. It posed no challenge at all, and when I tried 4 stars on the 5th I found I got less XP because of how the system rewards speed (seems imbalanced with difficulty settings). I know that XP chains will help balance this, but come on why so heavily encourage everyone regardless of whether they like to(or have to) play solo to do this?

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You seem to fail at math. Or you're just so shortsighted that you don't even realize what you're saying. You do realize you can only do one set of leves every 36 hours, right?

Let's say you get 40k EXP out of a set of leves within one hour.

That's an IMMEDIATE 40k/hr of EXP, while grind parties can maybe get 30k/hr. Looking at it that way, it seems like leves are overshadowing EXP/hr by a large margin, which is what you seem to be whining about.

But you're overlooking the fact that you can only do one set of leves every 36 hours. So that changes the EFFECTIVE EXP/hr. The actual effective EXP/hr of one set of leves is 40,000/36, which equals about 1110 EXP/hr.

Add the fact that hardcore players can do leves every reset too, and the amount of EXP/hr for a casual is nothing in comparison.

The system is fine. You just need to get out more.

Souma Kisa you couldn't be more right.

It's too often the case that people see an exclamation like "OMG I got 1 million XP in 10 minutes!, this is broken!", and then they proceed to completely ignore the basic fact as you stated that it's once every 36 hours. So while you might do all your leves in 10 minutes for Y amt of SP you're doing nothing for the other 7 hours and 50 minutes you would have been playing if say we were back in the FFXI days and you were doing an 8 hr. grind party. I see your calculation is over 36 but I'd say it didn't even need to be stretched that far to illustrate the point. 35,000/8 is 4,375 which is a minor fraction of the sustained SP/hr. that a grind group gets at the estimated 30k/hr. you pointed out.

Perspective and context seem to be sorely lacking in all these 'Leve SP is crazy' posts.

Leves are a nice boost to your SP every 36 hours to either supplement grinding or replace it entirely if you don't have a lot of time. There is nothing wrong with the system as it is now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capita

You seem to fail at math. Or you're just so shortsighted that you don't even realize what you're saying. You do realize you can only do one set of leves every 36 hours, right?

Let's say you get 40k EXP out of a set of leves within one hour.

That's an IMMEDIATE 40k/hr of EXP, while grind parties can maybe get 30k/hr. Looking at it that way, it seems like leves are overshadowing EXP/hr by a large margin, which is what you seem to be whining about.

But you're overlooking the fact that you can only do one set of leves every 36 hours. So that changes the EFFECTIVE EXP/hr. The actual effective EXP/hr of one set of leves is 40,000/36, which equals about 1110 EXP/hr.

Add the fact that hardcore players can do leves every reset too, and the amount of EXP/hr for a casual is nothing in comparison.

The system is fine. You just need to get out more.

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I so LOL"d when I read this XD

Forum Community: SE, sp gain is too slow!

SE: Ok! *tweaks!*

FC: Now its too fast!

SE: *tweaks*

FC: Too slow!

SE: *tweaks*

FC: Too...

SE: Okay seriously, just shut the @#$% up.

FC: But...

SE: *punch*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capita

You seem to fail at math. Or you're just so shortsighted that you don't even realize what you're saying. You do realize you can only do one set of leves every 36 hours, right?

Let's say you get 40k EXP out of a set of leves within one hour.

That's an IMMEDIATE 40k/hr of EXP, while grind parties can maybe get 30k/hr. Looking at it that way, it seems like leves are overshadowing EXP/hr by a large margin, which is what you seem to be whining about.

But you're overlooking the fact that you can only do one set of leves every 36 hours. So that changes the EFFECTIVE EXP/hr. The actual effective EXP/hr of one set of leves is 40,000/36, which equals about 1110 EXP/hr.

Add the fact that hardcore players can do leves every reset too, and the amount of EXP/hr for a casual is nothing in comparison.

The system is fine. You just need to get out more.

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Just caught this thread. Read the OP, skipped to the end, then was getting ready to post as I was reading down the line of posts. Stopped at this one. No need to replay after this.