Paladin needs an enmity/potency buff.

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Originally Posted by subteraneanbird

You're right. 50% attack power is NOT equivalent to 50% extra damage dealt. It is in fact a bit worse because the damage you deal involves factors beyond your attack power. FoF is competitive with Unchained and Berserk COMBINED. Good WARs pull ahead because of Internal Release in a lot of real world situations.

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FoF is definitely not competitive with Unchained + Berserk. I pull ahead of most Paladins just using Unchained + Berserk + Maim, and even Paladins with Novus weapons don't come close to pulling off aggro from me or most WARs who do that, even though all I have is an i95 Wave Axe.

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Originally Posted by subteraneanbird

You're right. 50% attack power is NOT equivalent to 50% extra damage dealt. It is in fact a bit worse because the damage you deal involves factors beyond your attack power. FoF is competitive with Unchained and Berserk COMBINED. Good WARs pull ahead because of Internal Release in a lot of real world situations.

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I think people have ball parked 50% attack power at something like a 40% damage boost. The other thing is that the damage boosts are multiplicative. Unchained is a 33% damage boost (result of removing a 25% damage loss, ie: 1.0 / 0.75). Internal Release is very weak, it only adds 5% damage if you have no crit at all (because it does not boost damage added by your existing crit) so it's more like a 3-4% boost. However it's just one more multiplicative boost, so when you get all combined, it's:

1.33 X 1.4 X 1.04 ~= 1.94 or a 194% damage boost for 15-20 seconds during UBIR.

This is on top of the existing boosts provided by maim and maybe SE (if you're able to use it). It's also even better if you time it properly, because it's not a boost of your average damage. Proper usage is to align unchained with the first skull sunder and berserk with the first butcher's block. The result is 3 butchers blocks that full under the fully buffed unchained + berserk. All 3 of which are also under maim, and two of which can be under SE, which are both in their own right multiplicative buffs. This results in the first two being buffed by a massive ~258% and the last one still buffed by ~233%, which makes it even more potent than simply multiplying your average threat gen by 194% above. Granted this only happens every 2min (although you get IR alone every other min), but it greatly outpaces anything available to the PLD.

However, this comes at a cost. Doing the above, while it means obnoxious threat generated on a single target, also means you have to drop both the SE & SP boosts for a certain period of time. So you're doing less damage and taking more damage than you otherwise could as a trade off.

My post as stated (if you even bother to read it) notes that it does not take the buffs into account and that it wouldn't change the overall results all too much. More specifically Berserk and Flight or Fight with both having roughly the same effect on the totals. You do not add 50% to the total because it is NOT available all the time. In the grand scheme you include its down time, meaning something like Flight or Fight is a 30% increase in its DURATION. It has a 90 second cooldown meaning its only effective 1/3 of the time if you use it on the cooldown (which you should) meaning that its effect on the total potencies is really only 10%-ish. The same logic applies to Berserk and Berserk has a much inferior effect on the total potency due to its type of increase and its pacification effect. (Using the Ball parked number which is an actual 40% increase in damage dealt, Berserk is roughly the same to Flight or Fight being 1/3 stronger but 1/3 shorter. It is weaker than Flight or Fight as a result because of the Pacification which is 5 seconds DPS loss.)

What my math is trying to point out is that PLD has access to Circle of Scorn AND Spirits Within, both of which play a major part to their potencies and hate potencies. They are both effectively a 12.30% increase to the damage potency. That alone > Maim because Maim requires you to execute a lower pot and non enmity multiplying combo, causing you to have 1 out of 3 combos without the large enmity multipliers for a 20% increase in the other two which in my math, is proven to be an enmity loss over the long term.

In summary:
- WAR is undeniably better at BURSTING.
- WAR has lower total potencies in the long term.
- Both tanks benefit from Slash Resist so the argument of Storm's Eye being a WAR only calculation is thrown out the window.
- Flight or Fight is very slightly better than Berserk for overall effect.
- Unchained is the SOLE reason WAR is superior in Hate Generation and DPS in their TANKING stance. IB as well but that's an entirely different "Beast" (hur) in itself with its own Mechanic and being a GCD skill.
- PLD is actually a superior damage dealer in Sword Oath. Practically 50+ potency to each GCD WpnSkill, CoS and SpW > Maim.
- PLD is fine where it is in its tanking stance. It has no issues maintaining aggro and for no equivalence to Unchained they get a shield. Really c'mon, people already assume this as making them better than WARs at MT.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

My post as stated (if you even bother to read it) notes that it does not take the buffs into account and that it wouldn't change the overall results all too much.

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I had two points here that you sort of glossed over. Unchained, Berserk and IR are multiplicative, which makes them quite potent. The other part of it is how it's used if you want to max threat out. The ideal starting combo is BB > SE > Vengeance > HS > Unchained > SS > BB > BB combo > BB combo > Inner Beast > Pacify. Because you're getting 3 BB's that are all buffed by maim (and 2 under SE).

Threat over the UBIR combo, leaving defiance/shield oath threat modifiers and maim till the end (because it applies equally across all abilities). Defiance damage penalty does not apply because Unchained removes it for the duration.

SS(600) * SE(1.1) = 660
BB(1400) * Berserk(1.4) * SE(1.1) = 2156
BBCombo (150+600+1400) * Berserk(1.4)*SE(1.1)*IR(1.04)=3443
BBCombo (150+600+1400) * Berserk(1.4)*IR(1.04)=3130.4
Inner Beast (300)*Berserk(1.4)=420 (note unchained has fallen off here, but defiance does not apply to inner beast).

So you end up with:

(660+2156+3443+3130.4+420)*Maim=11771.28

Now add in defiance threat buff (for what it's worth, defiance and shield oath got buffed to 2x threat in 2.1, but we can stick with 1.5x here since it's what you used and relatively speaking it makes no difference because it's a blanket threat modifier applied to both tanks):

11771.28 * 1.5 = 17656.92

PLD, on the other hand doesn't work like that. Over 30 seconds, it's just a flat 4 full rotations. Best you can do is try to sneak in a second circle of scorn, but that won't make much difference threat wise, so it's pretty much a flat 10% buff or:

116160 * 1.1 = 127776.

So the war has generated something like 14% of the PLDs total threat generated over 5 minutes in 20 seconds time. This allows the WAR to pull so far ahead that the PLD cannot touch him (and you get to do this 2.5x every 5 min if you so choose). There's a reason why you see WARs tanking basically every S rank, no matter how long it's up and this is the reason. Which was the point of the post.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

-Not countining ... Auto-attacks

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This can create another error. Difference between WAR auto-attacks and PLD auto-attacks is that the war gets an extra bonus because maim, unchained and berserk all apply to a WARs auto-attacks, but the PLDs FoF does not (assuming SE as equal for both tanks). It makes a difference between the two and should bring the WAR's damage closer to the PLDs. Also it makes a difference when comparing SE>BB>BB to pure BB spam since SE & maim both benefit auto-attacks. This should result in SE>BB>BB pulling ahead of pure BB spam because of this bonus.

Another difference is neglecting Inner Beast. It's effectively a 420 potency damage attack every time it's used. Not trivial by any means. And wrath stacks, which add more crit. And then there's WARs access to a 300 potency fracture which can be used depending on what your combo is.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

So the war has generated something like 14% of the PLDs total threat generated over 5 minutes in 20 seconds time. This allows the WAR to pull so far ahead that the PLD cannot touch him (and you get to do this 2.5x every 5 min if you so choose). There's a reason why you see WARs tanking basically every S rank, no matter how long it's up and this is the reason. Which was the point of the post.

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I don't really get what you are talking about. Could you explain where these 5 minutes come from?

Edit: And it is pretty strange how you are calculating burst hate for WAR, but average hate for PLD (who can take advantage of Storm's Eye too btw).

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

Notes:
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-Berserk and Flight or Flight are almost similiar so their application wouldn't change much. FoF is something like a 10% total increase and Berserk a few decimal points lower because of the pacification.
-Unchained would push the WAR totals(ones with stance calculations naturally) slightly further (like no more than 3000 for damage potencies and like, 13000 for the hate potencies) purely from common sense, putting them slightly ahead.

...

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

My post as stated... More specifically Berserk and Flight or Fight with both having roughly thesame effect on the totals.

In summary:
- WAR is undeniably better at BURSTING.
- Flight or Fight is very slightly better than Berserk for overall effect.
-Unchained is the SOLE reason WAR is superior in Hate Generation and DPS in their TANKING stance. IB as well but that's an entirely different "Beast" (hur) in itself with its own Mechanic and being a GCD skill.
-PLD is fine where it is in its tanking stance. It has no issues maintaining aggro and for no equivalence to Unchained they get a shield. Really c'mon, people already assume this as making them better than WARs at MT.

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What my post is trying to disprove is that outside of Unchained (It's effect is a lot bigger than I thought), WAR has a supposed Enmity and DPS advantage in their tank stances. As proven, this is not the case. People like to see Maim and go OH HEY THEY'RE 20% better when they forget that PLD has CoS and SpW which is almost equivalent or BETTER than Maim. People forget that the Maim combo is actually an enmity loss in the grand scheme and that as boring as it is, flat RoH spam is just as efficient if not better.

I don't like to calculate Crit due to its nature as an RNG variable. A PLD can also crit, and everyone would have different samples if they included crit. You can crit all the time or never at all. Hence my exclusion of Crit in the calculation would atleast provide an expected reliable minimum outcome. Naturally you can always include it into your judgement at your own disclosure, and crit does have its effects. If both classes had EXACT values in potencies then you CAN almost reliably say that WAR's crit bonus puts them ahead.

Inner Beast is neglected due to its circumstance of calculations which I don't feel like going through. It may or may not be an increase. But I expect it to be ever so slightly, and to not forget that it takes a GCD so in the grand scheme can push out a few BB rotations which I expect it to be an Enmity lost based upon that logic. Same logic is applicable to Fracture but we all know how trash that skill is even on a WAR. It's ultimately a DPS loss in most cases since it pushes GCD's, Wrath Stacks, and TP.

Flight or Fight DOES increase PLD's auto attacks so yeah take what you will of it.

In regards to PLDs specifically, if your potencies increases then it would offset this balance with WAR being higher Damage in tank stances and PLD's being higher Defense as well as push PLD OT DPS further which would bring forth a silly topic of WHY PLD DO SO MUCH MORE DPS THAN WAR WHO HAS BIG AXE QQ. PLD doesn't NEED the increases. Its doing its job fine! It has its defense strength inplace of the slight disparity. If anything both tanks should be working together not fighting amongst themselves for who has the bigger epeen.

Perhaps my posts were convoluted and I didn't express my points correctly in which I apologize. (Go back to school you illiterate chicken! /whimper D: )

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

If anything both tanks should be working together not fighting amongst themselves for who has the bigger epeen.

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That is a problem in itself. This game promotes single tank strategies heavily (either intentional or not) and as long as this is the case, there will be aversion between the tank jobs who need to compete way more than the other roles.

I'll also like to bring this up. My static for turn 9. The MT is ilvl110 paladin and has the high alagan blade, the other Other also ilvl110 with high alagan battle axe. He uses mostly strength accessories. He isn't in defiance but we have to constantly monitor his aggro because he catches up and sometimes pull hate of out MT. He applies the storms path and eye debuff and for damage purposes uses Butchers block. They both have the extra 30 points in strength. That alone just tells me that War is league's ahead of a PAL in terms of aggro building. Of course it can be the strength accessories, but how much of a difference will that make.

Full str accessoires make a huge difference. If you would switch the roles, the PLD could easily grab aggro.

And btw, your WAR cannot keep up Storm's Path and Eye 100% AND use Butchers Block.

and btw your WAR OT should most def be keeping up SP and SE

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Originally Posted by Alphras

Full str accessoires make a huge difference. If you would switch the roles, the PLD could easily grab aggro.

And btw, your WAR cannot keep up Storm's Path and Eye 100% AND use Butchers Block.

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^

This right here, actually saw a full str PLD today and he grabbed hate of a I110 war without a problem(S RANK)

I'm currently full vit and gonna buy some STR accessories this week.

Fallen hit it right. Berserk is much MUCH weaker due to its horrid uptime. This is why FoF alone is enough for PLD and why it's able to keep up with multiple cooldowns from WAR. To say they're not competitive is flat wrong. They don't do the exact same thing (because obv the two classes play differently) but to see it as a deficiency is wrong. You may see it as an issue that a WAR who won't reign it in can pull off a PLD. But on the flipside over time a PLD will have to stop attacking to prevent pulling off a WAR, because WAR loses time using moves with incredibly low hate generation. Two sides of the same coin.

WAR puts out far greater DPS in tanking stance.

They are equal in DPS as OTs, BUT that assumes a WAR MT keeping up SE for the PLD.

For DPS:

MT WAR OT PLD = MT WAR OT WAR >> MT PLD OT WAR >> MT PLD OT PLD

Solo WAR >> Solo PLD

PLD has the short end of the DPS stick, especially since it relies on a WAR debuff to compete. Most of players perceptions of PLD being a superior OT are based on a single T8 parse from a JP group that had the PLD at 350 DPS. Until there is more evidence of PLDs doing 350ish DPS, WARs will have the edge since there are dozens of WAR parses in the 330-350 range on all types of content.

PLD OT dps does compete with WAR dps on its own and pulls ahead with Storm's Eye. This was proven again and again.

The only problem with PLD OT is the hate generation, which can be tricky to handle if the OT is going full STR and the MT full VIT.

Edit: And for actual math, this post is still the best source I know of: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2219758

It's also worth noting that the insane burst hate war has takes a long time to actually complete (most UBIR rotations are in the realm of 30-40s from start to end. Longer if you are using natural Wrath stacks instead of popping Infuriate) so there are situations where it just doesn't work because you won't have the time to outperform PLD, let alone DPS. It also has a hard 2 minute cooldown (you don't wanna use Berserk w/o Unchained because they won't always line up and Berserk is kinda lackluster otherwise. Internal Release lines up with this schedule naturally) meaning for the rest of the time you're just doing pretty good. Pretty good doesn't always cut it.

I love WAR a lot but it's def not the best at everything and PLD has some key advantages, both mechanically and numerically.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

PLD OT dps does compete with WAR dps on its own and pulls ahead with Storm's Eye. This was proven again and again.

The only problem with PLD OT is the hate generation, which can be tricky to handle if the OT is going full STR and the MT full VIT.

Edit: And for actual math, this post is still the best source I know of: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2219758

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Ah the holy grail of maths! My inferior and far less concise maths is essentially a regurgitation of this (my trust in it further strengthened by my own breakdown).

Just don't ever underestimate the power of Sword Oath. 50pot increase may appear small but its impact on total DPS is huge. HUGE I SAY.

One thing that I've always wondered. As an OT WAR DPS, is it ever worth it to Defiance>Infuriate>IB and eat the following 3 shitty GCD's? Turning the following 150, 190/200, 250/270/280 into a 112.5, 142.5/150, 187.5/202.5/210 for a 300 doesn't seem like a good idea.

Sorry for the off-topic post!

I think it would be better to infuriate -> unchained -> build 5 stacks -> inner beast -> turn off defiance. Don't know if it is worth the hassle, but it should be a dps improvement.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

PLD OT dps does compete with WAR dps on its own and pulls ahead with Storm's Eye. This was proven again and again.


Edit: And for actual math, this post is still the best source I know of: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2219758

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There are so very obvious flaws in his WAR calculations. Specifically the rotation for DPS (which is complex as he acknowledges and the lack of IR and wrath crit bonus)

I have 100s of parses on WAR and PLD. (both i110 just missing HA legs for BiS armor both with i110 weapons) They are very much equal in the OT role and WAR is dominant in the MT role. (as his math says)

I am a PLD main but playing with an equally geared/skilled WAR counter part it is very easy to see the similarities and disparities in their DPS.

Then please, either fix the math or link your parses (there are plenty at the end of the thread I linked btw).

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

WAR puts out far greater DPS in tanking stance.

They are equal in DPS as OTs, BUT that assumes a WAR MT keeping up SE for the PLD.

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I can't say for T8 or T9, but up until T7, a PLD can tank for some time even in Sword Oath. With a little head start to secure aggro with Shield Oath, RoH can keep you above any DPS without the Shield Oath enmity bonus.

For T6, I usually stay in Sword Oath up until Rafflesia eats its first glazed member. Using Sword Oath cripples you far less than a WAR removing Defiance, so your DPS can go higher without killing your role as a tank.

I think when we get further in the lifespan of this game Warriors will only use defiance in the beginning of a boss fight to get ridiculous enmity and turn off defiance for the rest of the fight. Thrill of battle and Vengeance should be enough to help with survive-ability and the occasional defiance > infuriate > inner beast.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

Full str accessoires make a huge difference. If you would switch the roles, the PLD could easily grab aggro.

And btw, your WAR cannot keep up Storm's Path and Eye 100% AND use Butchers Block.

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storm path 1st which i think is like 20s storm eye is 15 seconds. He probably does lets Storm path falls off and reapplies it after storms eye is applied again.

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Originally Posted by melflomil

storm path 1st which i think is like 20s storm eye is 15 seconds. He probably does lets Storm path falls off and reapplies it after storms eye is applied again.

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Storm's Eye lasts 15s. For the following: H > M > SE > H > S > BB, it will be reapplied by the next SE just before it falls off. If you deviate, it does not stay up for that SE (and however many autoattacks you have before it goes back up).

If you wait until it falls off completely to reapply it, starting from Heavy Swing, you're doing it wrong from a DPS perspective.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

Then please, either fix the math or link your parses (there are plenty at the end of the thread I linked btw).

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At work right now but here is a good 16 page read for you.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/120...e-Off-Tank-DPS

The only relevant thing I can see there is the opening post with the three parses (well dps numbers, weapon speed of the PLD would be interesting here). If I am missing something please link me that. While you are at it please have a look at the parses from this post: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2225374

Edit: Weapon Speed would have been 2.08. So actually better than the Curtana for Sword Oath.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

The only relevant thing I can see there is the opening post with the three parses (well dps numbers, weapon speed of the PLD would be interesting here). If I am missing something please link me that.

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Last couple dozen or so posts. It's not a particularly long thread. Just scroll past stuff until you see pics.

Yeah, but there are only posts about WAR OT damage. Nothing really to compare (beside the OP).

since you keep saying PLD OT do more dmg i think you are the one who should give us parser numbers since there is lots of war numbers out there

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Originally Posted by Alphras

I don't really get what you are talking about. Could you explain where these 5 minutes come from?

Edit: And it is pretty strange how you are calculating burst hate for WAR, but average hate for PLD (who can take advantage of Storm's Eye too btw).

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The post I was responding (FallenWings) talked about her previous post where she mathed out damages done/threat generated by WAR vs. PLD under varying conditions. It's on the previous page. Her math was all based upon damage done/threat generated in 5 minutes. She asserted that certain things like buffs & auto attack didn't matter much because they would have a similar effect on both classes.

For a PLD the only thing really left out was auto-attack and FoF. Putting these things in for the PLD doesn't create any complexity to the calculation. PLD damage and threat is mostly steady and consistent. And given the duration of FoF, there's very little "trick" to using it, since the duration lasts exactly 4 full combos. You could maybe optimize it a little if you had a bunch of skill speed to fit a 13th attack under FoF, but skill speed is the least desirable stat for PLD so I don't think that's worth worrying about. So FoF ends up providing a very uniform 10% boost across the board.

The WAR buffs are more complicated. The reason for showing the WAR's burst combo is to show how a WAR can adjust his combo to provide burst that goes beyond what just applying a % increase on his average damage or threat would indicate. This is something available to the WAR that is not available to the PLD currently.

So I presented the Burst combo to compare the threat it generates in 20seconds to what was already calculated for the PLD in 5 minutes to show just how potent it can be. This number calculated for the PLD includes Storm's eye.

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Originally Posted by Gildarts

since you keep saying PLD OT do more dmg i think you are the one who should give us parser numbers since there is lots of war numbers out there

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It's been beaten to death, PLD OT does pull a bit ahead with Storm's Eye when parsers are accurate. Most are not accurate, particularly during large fights, because they don't pick up Sword Oath for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Gildarts

since you keep saying PLD OT do more dmg i think you are the one who should give us parser numbers since there is lots of war numbers out there

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I already provided some parses for PLD/WAR with the same equipment (albeit from me) and the math that backs it up. Please take a look at the links.

And considering the BG parses, ACT seems to have problems with SwO (which was mentioned in the thread i linked too), that could explain the difference between them and the parses I posted.

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Originally Posted by melflomil

I think when we get further in the lifespan of this game Warriors will only use defiance in the beginning of a boss fight to get ridiculous enmity and turn off defiance for the rest of the fight. Thrill of battle and Vengeance should be enough to help with survive-ability and the occasional defiance > infuriate > inner beast.

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For content we ridiculously overgear, maybe. It can and should already be done in high end gear on dungeons and certain primals.

I don't know about harder content though, at least not in the next iLVL increase. It's not about being able to do it, that's a given with more HP, but it's about how much healer DPS you lose because they have to heal bomb harder - or worse, requiring a 2nd healer in solo heal content. It's a delicate balance tanks have to take when tanking in non-tank stance; it has to be a DPS increase enough to comfortably and consistently be survivable with only slightly more healing required. Healers do roughly OT levels of DPS, after all.

I might be a bad scholar when it comes down for me to DPS but on average I do as much dps as a tier three melee limit break on T8. That's about about 6% damage. I might as well heal the entire fight not switching to cleric stance not even once and pump out heals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by melflomil

I think when we get further in the lifespan of this game Warriors will only use defiance in the beginning of a boss fight to get ridiculous enmity and turn off defiance for the rest of the fight. Thrill of battle and Vengeance should be enough to help with survive-ability and the occasional defiance > infuriate > inner beast.

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If you've got both tanks available, it's better for the PLD to do this. PLD gains more by swapping to sword oath (remove shield oath penalty, gain sword oath boost), it's easier to maintain a good threat level (just one combo) and PLD loses fewer defensive boosts doing so (only loses shield oath, WAR loses defiance and stops building wrath stacks).

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

It's been beaten to death, PLD OT does pull a bit ahead with Storm's Eye when parsers are accurate. Most are not accurate, particularly during large fights, because they don't pick up Sword Oath for some reason.

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ACT pick Sword oath just fine.

again please coil parsers would be good

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Originally Posted by Alphras

I already provided some parses for PLD/WAR with the same equipment (albeit from me) and the math that backs it up. Please take a look at the links.

And considering the BG parses, ACT seems to have problems with SwO (which was mentioned in the thread i linked too), that could explain the difference between them and the parses I posted.

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in same link, Klops did parse and had different numbers.

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Originally Posted by melflomil

I might be a bad scholar when it comes down for me to DPS but on average I do as much dps as a tier three melee limit break on T8. That's about about 6% damage. I might as well heal the entire fight not switching to cleric stance not even once and pump out heals.

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You're capable of putting out at least half as much DPS as your top actual DPS in most groups; well over half in parts where you don't need to do any active healing or buffing whatsoever. It's definitely worth it to assist in DPS when possible.

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Originally Posted by Gildarts

ACT pick Sword oath just fine.

again please coil parsers would be good

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There's a thread about WAR OT dps (or something like that) buried in the forums. You can go find it if you want to know more.

Turns out that even with Unchained, WAR's are still barely behind. But how are they possibly ahead in the long term? Short answer: Inner Beast.

Note: I presume auto attacks are 75 pot since my auto does half of Fast Blade, (Eye-tested) and that they activate every GCD or have a cooldown of 2.5.
Yes I know that Axes and Swords don't have the same cd and potency but for the sake of this calculation we'll just say they end up the same so I'll give them both the same pot/cd for simplified calculation. (Feel free to prove a disparity between WAR and PLD auto attacks)

Auto attacks.

WAR
(75*0.75)*120 = 6750
((75*0.75)*1.2)*120 = 8100
(((75*0.75)*1.2)*1.1)*120 = 8910

PLD
(75*0.8)*120 = 7200
((75*0.8)*1.1)*120 = 7920

Total Pot Including GCD and AA over 300 seconds or 40 combos/120 GCDs

WAR
BB
26775

MAIM
31626

MAIM SE
34297.2



PLD
ROH
31520

ROHSE
34672

Berserk 10% (-6 GCD's or 2 Combos)

WAR
BB
(26775*1.1)-945 (2 BBz)
28507.4

MAIM (SP, BB, BB)
(31626*1.1)-1134
33654.6

MAIM SE (SE, BB, BB)
(34297.2*1.1)-1247.4
36479.52

DROP THE UNCHAINED. DOOF DOOF DOOF 5.5%

BB
30075.307

MAIM
35505.603

MAIM SE
38485.8936


Inner BEAST GRAHHHHHHHHGHGHGH!

18 IBs (Also means -6 combos. We'll use BB's since we want Maim and SE maximum uptime)

Total pot of 5400 added. (300*18)
Total pot of 2835 removed. ((630*0.75)*6)

BB + IBs
24840
+4500
29340

MAIM + IBs
(26226 - (((630*0.75)*1.2)*6))+((300*1.2)*18)
29304
+5400
34704

MAIM SE + IBs
(28357.2 - ((((630*0.75)*1.2)*1.1)*6))+(((300*1.2)*1.1)*18)
31743
+5940
37683

Berserk and Unchained!

This time only 16 IBs (2 Are used for Unchained)

But we also get 2 GCD's back! Huzzah 600 for 337.5!

For simplification I'll stick the Post Defiance GCD tradeoff with the IB pile.

5062.5
2835

BB + IBs
25850.1375
-3290.0175
+5875.03125
-945

26860.15125
+5222.25
32082.40125

MAIM + IBs

30435.273
-3948.021
+7050.0375
-1134

32403.2895
+6266.7
38669.9895

MAIM SE + IBs

32908.5306
-4342.8231
+7755.04125
-1247.4

35073.34875
+6893.37
41966.71875

PLD
Flight or Fight 10%

ROH
31520*1.1
34672

ROHSE
34672*1.1
38139.2

But what does this mean for Enmity/Hate?!

Over 300 seconds or 40 Combos/120 GCD's.

WAR
BB = 168.75 + 675 + 1575 = 2418.75

Maim BB = 202.5 + 810 + 1890 = 2902.5

Maim Eye BB = 222.75 + 891 + 2079 = 3192.75

Maim SP = 202.5 + 256.5 + 337.5 = 796.5

Maim SE = 202.5 + 256.5 + 364.5 = 823.5

The UBIR Tri-BB = +2 BB's -2 SE/SP

The Formula

((Total Potency+(Autoattack Total potency*Enmity Modifier))*Berserk)*Unchained)- Pacified Lost BB's.

Pure BB

((98437.5+(6750*1.5)*1.1)*1.055)-4837.5
Total Hate Potency: 121148.701

SP>BB>BB

((88641+(8100*1.5)*1.1)*1.055)-5805
Total Hate Potency: 111164.9555
UBIRTBB THP: 116316.458


SE>BB>BB

((96768+(8910*1.5)*1.1)*1.055)-6385.5
Total Hate Potency: 128129.2155
UBIRTBB THP: 132954.5745

PLD
ROH = 180 + 720 + 1560 = 2460
CoS = (250*0.8)*1.5 = 300
SpW = (300*0.8)*1.5 = 360

PLD Storm's Eye
ROH = 198 + 792 + 1716 = 2706
CoS = 330
SpW = 396

The Formula
(Total Potency+(Autoattack Total potency*Enmity Modifier)*Flight or Fight

ROH
(105600+(7200*1.5))*1.1
Total Hate Potency: 128040

+SE
(116160+(7920*1.5))*1.1
Total Hate Potency: 140844

Can anyone tell me the spoiler code? ;-;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FallenWings

Total Pot Including GCD and AA over 300 seconds or 40 combos/120 GCDs

WAR
BB
26775

MAIM
31626

MAIM SE
34297.2


PLD
ROH
31520

ROHSE
34672

---

Could you split this part up? I don't seem to be able to get your numbers xD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gildarts

in same link, Klops did parse and had different numbers.

---

The only full parses in this thread are from Badger, which he needed to redo because of the SwO problem (he even posted a developer response about that).

And what exactly would be the advantage of coil parses over dummy parses where you can compare without mechanics and equipment differences?


Edit: I actually think we should keep to the math and try to fix that, as there is always a point of doubt and randomness about ACT parses (but I am a math junky so I am biased).

Edit 2: And about this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gildarts

since you keep saying PLD OT do more dmg i think you are the one who should give us parser numbers since there is lots of war numbers out there

---

Let's keep in mind that I did say that a PLD does not need Storm's Eye to compete with WAR and pulls ahead with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giantbane

.

---

i already saw lots of war MT and OT DPS however i haven't seen lots for pld

only like 2 with good dmg from t8

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alphras

The only full parses in this thread are from Badger, which he needed to redo because of the SwO problem (he even posted a developer response about that).

And what exactly would be the advantage of coil parses over dummy parses where you can compare without mechanics and equipment differences?


Let's keep in mind that I did say that a PLD does not need Storm's Eye to compete with WAR and pulls ahead with it.

---

Klops did already parse again on dummy and showed different numbers as i said but everyone choose to ignore it because it didn't match what they wanted to hear

also Zdenka had numbers on dummy too war vs pld

and again ACT pick up SO just fine

and even on dummy war pull head slightly with same gear